Europe submits voluntarily

[barbos]

It's very easy to get into Europe. While there are legitimate refugees many of those coming in are not even applying for asylum. Hence these by their own actions are not seeking protection. On camera they will admit they are seeking better prospects.

Yes, they escaped war in Syria in Turkey, most are still stay there, but some went through Bulgaria, then Serbia, then Hungary, then Austria.
They could have stayed in Turkey, there is no war there and there is no need to build mosques for them there.

 

[Jokodo]

<snip>It is ISIS that is claiming the terrorists who are coming in.<snip>

Of course they would claim that. They're terrorists, for fuck's sake - they want you to be scared of them.

They also want people to stay in Syria - they believe that if they stay and are forced to choose between Assad and them, most will eventually choose them. They may be deluded about that, but that's what fundies do. So they want to limit Syrians' options.

They also want Europeans to be hostile towards Muslims - all Muslims. The more Muslims are being marginalised, the easier it is for some of them to become radicalised, and eventually some of those radicalised youth might join their jihad.

They wouldn't actually send any substantial number of fighters, though - they need them back in Syria and Iraq too much. All the less if they can achieve all their objectives by simply saying that they will, and having right wing fearmongers multiply the message.

So, in the name of ISIS, thank you for furthering our agenda.

 

[crispy]

It's very easy to get into Europe. While there are legitimate refugees many of those coming in are not even applying for asylum. Hence these by their own actions are not seeking protection. On camera they will admit they are seeking better prospects.

Yes, they escaped war in Syria in Turkey, most are still stay there, but some went through Bulgaria, then Serbia, then Hungary, then Austria.
They could have stayed in Turkey, there is no war there and there is no need to build mosques for them there.

Yes, and the vast majority did stay. Lets say civil war broke out in the US, do you think americans would only flee to Canada and Mexico?

 

[barbos]

Yes, they escaped war in Syria in Turkey, most are still stay there, but some went through Bulgaria, then Serbia, then Hungary, then Austria.
They could have stayed in Turkey, there is no war there and there is no need to build mosques for them there.

Yes, and the vast majority did stay. Lets say civil war broke out in the US, do you think americans would only flee to Canada and Mexico?

I doubt they will go through Canada to Russia.
These people in Europe are not running from the war anymore, they just run into Europe.

 

[dystopian]

No, they don't

Oh well, okay then. Guess I hallucinated all those times when people talked to me and other strangers during rush-hour train trips.

Yes, you did give anecdotal evidence.

Quote and post number please.

There are no 100,000 latvians in US.

According to the American census there were 93,498 Latvian-Americans in the US in 2008.

Yes, you should shut up. because your facts and statistics is utter bullshit.

Disprove them and their sources then, instead of just arbitrarily declaring them "bullshit". You've been on this forum long enough to understand that "Because I say so" isn't considered an acceptable line of evidence.

"Don't know" means "I have never met"

No it doesn't. I could have met one, but if his nationality never came up in conversation I wouldn't know he was a Tadzhik. People don't commonly ask where others are from around here, unless we think these people will be a regular fixture in our lives. Telling some random stranger that his shoelaces are untied, and then engaging in a short conversation with him doesn't require either of us to know where the other was born or raised.

In other words; "don't know" means "don't know."

Does not matter, it's still an anecdote.

Of course it matters; you lose out on a lot of credibility when you can't even keep straight who you're talking to.

I know you enough to know that you are making shit up.

You don't know the first thing about me other than that I'm Dutch and disagree with you a lot.

I do not make things up; I find that sort of thing to be rather distasteful, and I have no need to do so.

No, he was not cursing.

You don't even speak Dutch, so how would you know? Depending on what part of the Netherlands they were from, they could either curse only when angry... or every goddamn sentence because that's just how people from some places (Rotterdam for instance, or the Hague) roll.

 

[Jokodo]

Yes, and the vast majority did stay. Lets say civil war broke out in the US, do you think americans would only flee to Canada and Mexico?

I doubt they will go through Canada to Russia.
These people in Europe are not running from the war anymore, they just run into Europe.

When 200,000 Hungarians fled into Austria and Yugoslavia during and after the violent suppression of the 1956 uprising, most of them, instead of accepting to live in tent cities or former army barracks until further notice, went on to other countries as far afield as as the United States (40,000) or Australia (about 15,000).

They were not refugees? They were already safe from prosecution by the Soviet-backed putschists in Austria, weren't they?

 

[barbos]

Oh well, okay then. Guess I hallucinated all those times when people talked to me and other strangers during rush-hour train trips.

Most likely the case.

There are no 100,000 latvians in US.

According to the American census there were 93,498 Latvian-Americans in the US in 2008.

Latvian means having latvian passport. People with lavian-descent do not count.

Yes, you should shut up. because your facts and statistics is utter bullshit.

Disprove them and their sources then, instead of just arbitrarily declaring them "bullshit". You've been on this forum long enough to understand that "Because I say so" isn't considered an acceptable line of evidence.

"Don't know" means "I have never met"

No it doesn't.

Yes it does.

I could have met one,

And I have actually met and talked to them.

but if his nationality never came up in conversation I wouldn't know he was a Tadzhik.
People don't commonly ask where others are from around here, unless we think these people will be a regular fixture in our lives.

That's your problem, not mine.

Telling some random stranger that his shoelaces are untied, and then engaging in a short conversation with him doesn't require either of us to know where the other was born or raised.

In other words; "don't know" means "don't know."

No, what it means is what I said it means.

Does not matter, it's still an anecdote.

Of course it matters; you lose out on a lot of credibility when you can't even keep straight who you're talking to.

No, it does not matter. because your bullshit argument are just that - bullshit.

I know you enough to know that you are making shit up.

You don't know the first thing about me other than that I'm Dutch and disagree with you a lot.

I do not make things up; I find that sort of thing to be rather distasteful, and I have no need to do so.

Yes you do make shit up.

No, he was not cursing.

You don't even speak Dutch, so how would you know?

How do you know I don't speak dutch?

Depending on what part of the Netherlands they were from, they could either curse only when angry... or every goddamn sentence because that's just how people from some places (Rotterdam for instance, or the Hague) roll.

I don't really give a fuck about that. I told you well known fact which is dutch sounds like cursing to russians.
Do you understand what word fact means?

 

[whichphilosophy]

It's very easy to get into Europe. While there are legitimate refugees many of those coming in are not even applying for asylum. Hence these by their own actions are not seeking protection. On camera they will admit they are seeking better prospects.

Yes, they escaped war in Syria in Turkey, most are still stay there, but some went through Bulgaria, then Serbia, then Hungary, then Austria.
They could have stayed in Turkey, there is no war there and there is no need to build mosques for them there.

Legitimate refugees is not a problem. In a sense we are obligated to try and help because the US, Britain and some European countries caused the current problem in Syria. The main issue lies with economic migrants. They destroy their IDs and 'forget' their birthdays.
Since Europe abandoned its borders its very hard, sometimes to distinguish between a refugee and an economic migrant.

 

[Jokodo]

Yes, they escaped war in Syria in Turkey, most are still stay there, but some went through Bulgaria, then Serbia, then Hungary, then Austria.
They could have stayed in Turkey, there is no war there and there is no need to build mosques for them there.

Legitimate refugees is not a problem. In a sense we are obligated to try and help because the US, Britain and some European countries caused the current problem in Syria. The main issue lies with economic migrants. They destroy their IDs and 'forgetì their birthdays.

The UNHCR estimates that 75-80% of the people currently moving towards Western Europe along the Balkan route are legitimate refugees (more than 50% from Syria alone, but Syria isn't the only country from which people legitimately flee). So if you think that the overall numbers are overwhelming, the numbers will still be challenging at least once you subtract "economic" refugees.

 

[barbos]

Yes, they escaped war in Syria in Turkey, most are still stay there, but some went through Bulgaria, then Serbia, then Hungary, then Austria.
They could have stayed in Turkey, there is no war there and there is no need to build mosques for them there.

Legitimate refugees is not a problem. In a sense we are obligated to try and help because the US, Britain and some European countries caused the current problem in Syria. The main issue lies with economic migrants. They destroy their IDs and 'forget' their birthdays.
Since Europe abandoned its borders its very hard, sometimes to distinguish between a refugee and an economic migrant.

In the news they said "refugees" refused to be finger-printed in Hungary because they were afraid that they would be forced to live in the country of entrance. Also Danish apparently reduced daily allowance while refugees were on a train and people who were planning to stay there refused to leave the train because of it.
This looks like a well organized and informed (about laws and regulations) economic invasion.

As for West being responsible then in a way they are but this mess was going to happen sooner or later I think.
I can't imagine sure-winning western strategy. ME is a unfixable mess.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Legitimate refugees is not a problem. In a sense we are obligated to try and help because the US, Britain and some European countries caused the current problem in Syria. The main issue lies with economic migrants. They destroy their IDs and 'forget' their birthdays.
Since Europe abandoned its borders its very hard, sometimes to distinguish between a refugee and an economic migrant.

In the news they said "refugees" refused to be finger-printed in Hungary because they were afraid that they would be forced to live in the country of entrance. Also Danish apparently reduced daily allowance while refugees were on a train and people who were planning to stay there refused to leave the train because of it.
This looks like a well organized and informed (about laws and regulations) economic invasion.

As for West being responsible then in a way they are but this mess was going to happen sooner or later I think.
I can't imagine sure-winning western strategy. ME is a unfixable mess.

Most republicans that I know believe that the US can and should fix the Mid East.

 

[dystopian]

I don't really give a fuck about that. I told you well known fact which is dutch sounds like cursing to russians.
Do you understand what word fact means?

Yes. Clearly you don´t though, or you wouldn´t be asking me what the word means right after you describe your personal and unsubstantiated opinion that other Russians all share a particular opinion[/B with another as a `fact´.

And with that, I think we can safely ignore the rest of your diatribes in this thread.

 

[Derec]

Yes you should.
If now you could give a complete list of European countries where you can't, this might actually be relevant to the discussion.

I was talking about long term repercussions for Europe so your objection is irrelevant here. Besides, there are already 200 Subway restaurants in UK that are "halal only" even with minority being Muslim. As Muslim population increases it will get worse.

 

[Tammuz]

Islam is also fast growing amongst Europeans.

No.

 

[Derec]

There's always better. But they're way more secular oriented than Christian in the US South.

That is blank nonsense and a perfect example of the lefty obsession of trying to make Christians worse than Muslims. But let's see:
- are Christians in the US South engaging in terrorist attacks on a regular basis?
- are satirists in the US South subject to death threats and massacres for criticizing Christianity or daring to draw Jesus?
- are young Christians in the US South going to the Middle East to fight for the theocratic CSIS (Christian State in Iraq and Syria)?
- are Southern Baptists in the US South refusing to serve alcohol as part of their job duties?
- are Christians in the US South demanding that Subway restaurants get rid of all Yankee meats?

For all the horror stories you're being fed by your right-wing news networks or blogs, it's a matter of fact that a population like European Muslims would actually help the US become a more secular country, and that's a fact.

Ridiculous nonsense.

 

[whichphilosophy]

In the news they said "refugees" refused to be finger-printed in Hungary because they were afraid that they would be forced to live in the country of entrance. Also Danish apparently reduced daily allowance while refugees were on a train and people who were planning to stay there refused to leave the train because of it.
This looks like a well organized and informed (about laws and regulations) economic invasion.

As for West being responsible then in a way they are but this mess was going to happen sooner or later I think.
I can't imagine sure-winning western strategy. ME is a unfixable mess.

Most republicans that I know believe that the US can and should fix the Mid East.

If they hadn't wrecked it, there would not be a need to fix it.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Legitimate refugees is not a problem. In a sense we are obligated to try and help because the US, Britain and some European countries caused the current problem in Syria. The main issue lies with economic migrants. They destroy their IDs and 'forget' their birthdays.
Since Europe abandoned its borders its very hard, sometimes to distinguish between a refugee and an economic migrant.

In the news they said "refugees" refused to be finger-printed in Hungary because they were afraid that they would be forced to live in the country of entrance. Also Danish apparently reduced daily allowance while refugees were on a train and people who were planning to stay there refused to leave the train because of it.
This looks like a well organized and informed (about laws and regulations) economic invasion.

As for West being responsible then in a way they are but this mess was going to happen sooner or later I think.
I can't imagine sure-winning western strategy. ME is a unfixable mess.

They are well informed. They are taught back home in Africa or Pakistan for instance.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Most republicans that I know believe that the US can and should fix the Mid East.

If they hadn't wrecked it, there would not be a need to fix it.

I'm not excusing the US invasion of Iraq, but the Mid-east was the piss hole of the world before 9-11.

 

[whichphilosophy]

I doubt they will go through Canada to Russia.
These people in Europe are not running from the war anymore, they just run into Europe.

When 200,000 Hungarians fled into Austria and Yugoslavia during and after the violent suppression of the 1956 uprising, most of them, instead of accepting to live in tent cities or former army barracks until further notice, went on to other countries as far afield as as the United States (40,000) or Australia (about 15,000).

They were not refugees? They were already safe from prosecution by the Soviet-backed putschists in Austria, weren't they?

These were refugees. Economic migrants from Bangladesh and Pakistan are not refugees. Your talking about 65,000. Now it is sometimes impossible to distinguish refugees and illegal immigrants. Perhaps the ones with the I phone are not refugees.

 

[barbos]

I doubt they will go through Canada to Russia.
These people in Europe are not running from the war anymore, they just run into Europe.

When 200,000 Hungarians fled into Austria and Yugoslavia during and after the violent suppression of the 1956 uprising, most of them, instead of accepting to live in tent cities or former army barracks until further notice, went on to other countries as far afield as as the United States (40,000) or Australia (about 15,000).

They were not refugees? They were already safe from prosecution by the Soviet-backed putschists in Austria, weren't they?

These Hungarians had no intention on living on handouts (I doubt there were any actually), and had no option of ever going back. Effectively they were forced to emigrate to the west. In case of Syrian refugees their intentions are rather clear.

In theory people should be able to emigrate to any place they want without any questions, but in reality this is just not possible.