Europe submits voluntarily

[RavenSky]

There's always a free rider problem in any situation. Ignoring the plight of these refugees because there are some scammers amongst them is about as sensible as wanting to discontinue foodstamps for the needy population as a whole because of a few welfare queens with fake Social Security cards getting a few hundred extra bucks a month.

Yet that is exactly what "conservatives" in the US want to do, too

 

[whichphilosophy]

Every European country should make a firm committment to take in as many refugees as Arab countries such as Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.

That means Nil accepted and X illegals deported

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Every European country should make a firm committment to take in as many refugees as Arab countries such as Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.

That means Nil accepted and X illegals deported

That's the point. Every country should get involved and help out. If the Arab countries step up, Europe should similarly step up.

Canada's even willing to bump up our contribution and take in an even dozen refugees. You're welcome.

 

[Jokodo]

Some sources claim that Saudi Arabia has informally accepted half a million Syrians since 2011 but without declaring them as refugees - with 200,000 additional residencies issued to Syrian nationals and an estimated 300,000 who entered on tourist visas but never left.

It's still shameful that they won't accept anyone as refugees - but expected. They haven't even signed the Geneva convention, so hey. Saying that we shouldn't accept anyone until they do is like saying that we should have the death penalty for apostasy from Christianity as long as they have the death penalty for apostasy from Islam.

I don't know about you guys, but I want to live in a society that thrives to be one of the best, not one that models itself after the worst.

 

[barbos]

Are you under the impression that people do not talk during rush hour?

Yes, I am under such impression.

Or are you under the impression that talking to random strangers is somehow relevant to this discussion? Because I asked you how this is *relevant*.

It's relevant because you gave your anecdotal evidence and I told you your anecdotal evidence does not impress me.

But good luck bumping into Latvian or Tadzhik in US.

You do realize that after Latvia itself, the US is the country with the highest number of Latvian residents,

You do realize that US has population of 315 million people and Latvia is what? 2mil?

and they're mostly concentrated in a few areas, right? There's also more than 50,000 Tajik's in the US; who are likely also concentrated in certain areas... so depending on where you are it shouldn't be too unlikely to bump into one...

Unless you met a tadzhik I suggest you to shut up.

...not that this has anything whatsoever to do with the topic.

And your sitting next to Syrian refugee has? how?

By the way, I forgot dutch, I have met these too, they were much less obnoxious than you.

Yes, of course.

Language is pretty obnoxious to a russian ear though, not your fault but it is what it is.

It might shock you, but Russian isn't exactly considered a good sounding language either.

I think you are lying. Don't know about dutch but to english speakers russian sounds fine. And Dutch to a russian sounds like cursing.

Not that this, once again, has anything whatsoever to do with the topic.

Nothing, just telling your random and mildly interesting fact.

 

[barbos]

Every European country should make a firm committment to take in as many refugees as Arab countries such as Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.

If Saudi Arabia feels unfairly targeted by this criticism we can offer to build 200 protestant christian churches in Saudi Arabia, as compensation for their butthurtness.

OK, that's a really good one, I wish someone (Merkel or someone) have told that to them.
Again, good one.

Maybe ask Kim Davis if she wants to head a new Christian Saudi megachurch? We'll build the world's biggest one just for the hell of it. That'll shut both of them up.

 

[bigfield]

I don't know about you guys, but I want to live in a society that thrives to be one of the best, not one that models itself after the worst.

You may appreciate this, then:



http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...pen-arms-and-hot-drinks-oh-wait-thats-austria

Way to go, Australia!

 

[barbos]

And what is your solution? do you suggest Europe lets everyone in?
Do you realize what would happen? Yes, it's horrible that children die, but that child had parents who knew that could happen.

What would happen if Europe did let everyone in who wants to come?

I'm unconvinced that it would be bad for Europeans.

You are smoking something, aren't you?

I'm even less convinced that it would be bad for those who want to go.

Nobody contests that.

 

[TSwizzle]

Some sources claim that Saudi Arabia has informally accepted half a million Syrians since 2011 but without declaring them as refugees - with 200,000 additional residencies issued to Syrian nationals and an estimated 300,000 who entered on tourist visas but never left.

I doubt many "refugees" would be interested in going to that shithole anyway. Which works out well for Saudi.

It's still shameful that they won't accept anyone as refugees - but expected.

They will help in other ways I'm sure.

 

[dystopian]

Yes, I am under such impression.

What an odd place you must live in. People talk all the time during rush hour.

It's relevant because you gave your anecdotal evidence and I told you your anecdotal evidence does not impress me.

Actually, *I* didn't give the anecdotal evidence you were responding to. Indeed, I haven't given any anecdotal evidence in this thread, just hard numbers. It's a bit hard to take you seriously when you can't even keep straight who you're arguing with.

You do realize that US has population of 315 million people and Latvia is what? 2mil?

And? I already explained the concept of concentrated distributions, didn't I? It doesn't matter if there's 300 million people in the US and only 100,000 latvians; not if the majority of them live in a specific small region or city and the person you're responding to also happens to live there.

Unless you met a tadzhik I suggest you to shut up.

Wow, so, I should stop pointing out facts and statistics if I have not met someone from a random ethnicity?

I have no idea if I've met a tadzhik; but Amsterdam is officially the most internationally diverse city in the world with more nationalities present than any other place in the world... so the chances are pretty decent that I've met one without knowing (since generally I don't define people by where they're from, and so doesn't necessarily come up).

And your sitting next to Syrian refugee has? how?

I already told you, that wasn't me. If you can't even keep straight who you're talking to online even though our names are right fucking there next to our posts, how are we supposed to believe you can keep straight all the nationalities of the people you claim to have talked to?

I think you are lying. Don't know about dutch but to english speakers russian sounds fine.

You mean to *some* English speakers it does. I know plenty of English speakers who find Russian and the Russian accent grating. And for some bizarre reason there's quite a few Americans who think Dutch accents are sexy; which perplexes me.

And Dutch to a russian sounds like cursing.

That's probably because the Dutch people you met were, in fact, cursing. The Dutch language has more unique insults and cursewords than any other language in the world.

 

[Jokodo]

I doubt many "refugees" would be interested in going to that shithole anyway. Which works out well for Saudi.

Quite amazing, then, that the population of the kingdom is made up by about a quarter foreign nationals.

 

[barbos]

What an odd place you must live in. People talk all the time during rush hour.

No, they don't

It's relevant because you gave your anecdotal evidence and I told you your anecdotal evidence does not impress me.

Actually, *I* didn't give the anecdotal evidence you were responding to. Indeed, I haven't given any anecdotal evidence in this thread, just hard numbers. It's a bit hard to take you seriously when you can't even keep straight who you're arguing with.

Yes, you did give anecdotal evidence.

You do realize that US has population of 315 million people and Latvia is what? 2mil?

And? I already explained the concept of concentrated distributions, didn't I? It doesn't matter if there's 300 million people in the US and only 100,000 latvians;

There are no 100,000 latvians in US.

not if the majority of them live in a specific small region or city and the person you're responding to also happens to live there.

Unless you met a tadzhik I suggest you to shut up.

Wow, so, I should stop pointing out facts and statistics if I have not met someone from a random ethnicity?

Yes, you should shut up. because your facts and statistics is utter bullshit.

I have no idea if I've met a tadzhik; but Amsterdam is officially the most internationally diverse city in the world with more nationalities present than any other place in the world... so the chances are pretty decent that I've met one without knowing (since generally I don't define people by where they're from, and so doesn't necessarily come up).

"Don't know" means "I have never met"

And your sitting next to Syrian refugee has? how?

I already told you, that wasn't me. If you can't even keep straight who you're talking to online even though our names are right fucking there next to our posts, how are we supposed to believe you can keep straight all the nationalities of the people you claim to have talked to?

Does not matter, it's still an anecdote.

I think you are lying. Don't know about dutch but to english speakers russian sounds fine.

You mean to *some* English speakers it does. I know plenty of English speakers who find Russian and the Russian accent grating.

I know you enough to know that you are making shit up.

And for some bizarre reason there's quite a few Americans who think Dutch accents are sexy; which perplexes me.

And Dutch to a russian sounds like cursing.

That's probably because the Dutch people you met were, in fact, cursing. The Dutch language has more unique insults and cursewords than any other language in the world.

No, he was not cursing.

- - - Updated - - -

I doubt many "refugees" would be interested in going to that shithole anyway. Which works out well for Saudi.

Quite amazing, then, that the population of the kingdom is made up by about a quarter foreign nationals.

Are you implying that SA is NOT a shithole?

 

[Trausti]

I doubt many "refugees" would be interested in going to that shithole anyway. Which works out well for Saudi.

Quite amazing, then, that the population of the kingdom is made up by about a quarter foreign nationals.

The foreign nationals in SA are workers who have no prospect of gaining asylum or permanent residency. Once their work permit is up, they're kicked out. Perhaps Europe should try that?

 

[whichphilosophy]

Some sources claim that Saudi Arabia has informally accepted half a million Syrians since 2011 but without declaring them as refugees - with 200,000 additional residencies issued to Syrian nationals and an estimated 300,000 who entered on tourist visas but never left.

It's still shameful that they won't accept anyone as refugees - but expected. They haven't even signed the Geneva convention, so hey. Saying that we shouldn't accept anyone until they do is like saying that we should have the death penalty for apostasy from Christianity as long as they have the death penalty for apostasy from Islam.

I don't know about you guys, but I want to live in a society that thrives to be one of the best, not one that models itself after the worst.

I found this article but perhaps more searching is required:
http://www.infowars.com/saudi-arabi...3-million-people-yet-has-taken-zero-refugees/

Saudi Arabia Has 100,000 Air Conditioned Tents That Can House 3 Million People Sitting Empty Yet Has Taken Zero Refugees

While Europe takes the burden of the migrant crisis

I am sure this is true. Why would Saudi wish to ruin its reputation as an upstanding pillar on human rights by taking people in.

 

[Jokodo]

Quite amazing, then, that the population of the kingdom is made up by about a quarter foreign nationals.

The foreign nationals in SA are workers who have no prospect of gaining asylum or permanent residency.

And yet "those people" (young adults from Muslim countries) come there in droves. That pretty much invalidates your and others' point that they're only in it for the welfare.

Once their work permit is up, they're kicked out. Perhaps Europe should try that?

Perhaps the US should try that retroactively? Deporting undesirable people back to Europe, like, say, Christian fundies, white supremacists, and cultural chauvinists unless they can show they had ancestors living in the current US territory 400 years ago?

Sidenote: I'll take the current Middle Eastern immigrants over those any day of the week. That's a population that have failed to shed a medieval world view despite living in one of the most advanced societies for about for many generation. No Western Muslim group has any chance competing with them on that front.

 

[arkirk]

People can change if they feel that the change can make their life better. I think we need to regard all human beings as having at least the capability to learn things. We are flooded with propaganda about Muslims that is totally inaccurate. We are given false notions of evilness being associated with being Persian. We do not even seem to recognize that Iran is a polyglot nation and definitely not a monolithic Muslim. If your nation is a good place to live and decomplicates peoples' lives, you will find an abandonment of their original nationalism the general rule among immigrants from backward nations. It is only among nations that assault immigrants with demands of immediate abandonment of the Muslim faith that there arises a resistant and militant factor.

The real questions should be can we all eat? What do we have to do so everybody had a place to stay and work to sustain their lives? This is not a tall insurmountable problem for civilized people who know how to read and write. These refuges mostly are running from the results of long standing empires crumbling in the last century and compounded by the political vacuum the old colonizers actually encouraged as they left. We are seeing anachronistic power struggles in these lands and try as any of us may, it is almost impossible for the old colonizers to help in the establishment of peace and stability. Despite our great technological advantages, we too have a military industrial complex that constantly struggles for power in our own countries.

You are idealistic optimist. No one demands muslim refugees to abandon their faith. What they demand is respect of local laws and traditions. Unfortunately that requires modification of culture and traditions muslims have, and what is extra unfortunate is that some of these traditions got ingrained into their faith. And to be honest these are some pretty retarded and completely unattainable in modern society traditions to begin with.

Culture can be like a bad habit. If it is a choice between culture and comfort you find the average human being opting for comfort. It is you and others like you that confer on these Muslims the mantle of inability to reason and to change. We are pretty much the same as them only with a different set of fairy tales. Actually, abandoning of faith is something us atheists know all about and know how it happens to most of us. So suddenly we meet with a lot of people whose heads are packed chock full of pure jive and we just throw our hands up and say...'the whole lot of them are fanatical.' So are we as a culture to be judged by the actions of Davis in Kentucky? I should hope not. Man is not naturally an adherent of any of these religions. It has to be beaten into them....so stop beating them and let them think for themselves. I don't care about headscarves or jock straps for that matter. We are a polyglot society and we should not have heaps of cultural restrictions. Nevertheless we too are governed by religious bigots. Imagine going to a Muslim country and being either deported or tortured or killed because we came from the land of Mike Huckabee! This faith thing has been learned and it damned well can be unlearned at least to the degree that we can support secular societal rules. I don't believe I have ever met a Muslim here in L.A. that wanted to go back to the ME somewhere and start chopping off Christian heads.

I know some of them are gay. You see this faith thing is only of great importance to a tiny minority of any so called faith. The rest just look on it as a social adjustment they make to get along in the culture where they find themselves. Every culture, even ours has its share of religious psychcpaths. Regardless of the apparent power of these faiths in the nations of origin of so called Muslim peoples, when they appear on a foreign shore as a refugee, it is precisely because their native culture has let them down and failed to provide for them a means of living at peace within that society. Discussing dropping the silliness of the religion seems to be a good idea with a great many of them. Some are so traumatized by the conflict in their country of origin, they simply may never find their way out of PTSD.

 

[Jokodo]

No, they don't

It's relevant because you gave your anecdotal evidence and I told you your anecdotal evidence does not impress me.

Actually, *I* didn't give the anecdotal evidence you were responding to. Indeed, I haven't given any anecdotal evidence in this thread, just hard numbers. It's a bit hard to take you seriously when you can't even keep straight who you're arguing with.

Yes, you did give anecdotal evidence.

You mean me. And besides misattributing, you didn't even understand *my* point. I never said "I've met a woman refugee from Syria, therefore all refugees are women", as your strawman has it. I did not dispute your claim that most are male. I've seen detailed statistics from official sources showing not only the overall sex ratio but the sex ratio by age group, or by country of origin. You can find those through google, you don't have to be in Vienna. But besides that, I've also seen hundreds emerge from special trains bringing them from Hungary. So I have at least one source more of knowing than you do.

What I do dispute is your claim that they "only know to be loud and throw rocks" or are "obnoxious". I was at the station one evening when it became obvious that hundreds, maybe thousands, (most of them indeed men travelling alone) would be stranded in Vienna for the night - the Austrian railways were still running extra trains to bring them in extra trains from the Hungarian border, but they'd run out of capacities to run special trains westwards, and only a fraction could be fitted on the regular westbound trains. I saw hundreds of exhausted, scared people desperately trying to get on the trains. At the same time, they readily respected to be treated as second class passengers - when a white Austrian passenger came running for the trains the crowd parted to let them through. I saw people jump fences - but only white Austrians who didn't want to rely on the above. I saw people plead and argue to be let on the train, but they didn't break through the line of railway workers, volunteer assistants, translators holding them back (the police wasn't even needed). If that's obnoxious to you, you might have to look up the word's definition.

 

[TSwizzle]

I doubt many "refugees" would be interested in going to that shithole anyway. Which works out well for Saudi.

Quite amazing, then, that the population of the kingdom is made up by about a quarter foreign nationals.

Yes it is amazing. I wonder why the Syrian "refugees" are not "desperately" pleading (demanding more like) for trains, planes and automobiles to transport them to the bosum of their muslim brothers. It's a fucking mystery so it is.

 

[fromderinside]

Canada's even willing to bump up our contribution and take in an even dozen refugees. You're welcome.

Obama sees your dozen and raises you 9988.

 

[arkirk]

Quite amazing, then, that the population of the kingdom is made up by about a quarter foreign nationals.

Yes it is amazing. I wonder why the Syrian "refugees" are not "desperately" pleading (demanding more like) for trains, planes and automobiles to transport them to the bosum of their muslim brothers. It's a fucking mystery so it is.

It actually is no mystery at all. The Saudi regime knows that once people begin to investigate how it came to be and have a modern world view, it will no longer have any legitimacy at all. They will spend a lot of money to keep themselves on the top of the king of the mountain pile in their country. Our country supports these crooks who regularly behead people who dissent in their country. What will we not do for oil? For some, there is no limit. Saudi Arabia is a good place to go if you are interested in perhaps having your head severed from your body...especially if you believe in democracy.