Europe submits voluntarily

[DrZoidberg]

So Westerners have to prepare themselves for a radical change of culture? One that would take us all back to mediaeval times and beyond! Like for example, Malaysia.
https://www.rt.com/news/344728-malaysia-sharia-law-bill/

Don't see what the big deal is. This is just opening up a possibility for an elective Sharia. It's opt in. Not mandatory It's a parallel legal system for those who wish to take part in it.

This is already possible in the west. We don't have any legal prohibitions against this. You're free to join whatever club you want. Which is how it should be.

Why do you hate freedom?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Not sure about irreligious growth because for every one person losing his/hers religion, there are at least two new moslems.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/islam-fastest-growing-religion-overtake-6986333

Wow, that is retarded.

1. You say that you don't know the growth rate for irreligion, and then you claim that it is half the rate of growth for Islam.
2. You conflate irreligion with apostasy. Many 'nones' were never religious to begin with.
3. Your source illustrates the stupidity of your Henny Penny fearmongering.

See here:

Pew estimates that Muslims will be a mere 10% of Europe's population in 2050.

Pew also estimates that 'unaffiliated' will be 23.3% of the population, which is more than two 'nones' for every Muslim.

Your silly predictions of an Islamic Europe are obviously a big fat fizzer.

There's also the issue of freedom. The west is free. We're free to chose whatever religion we want here. This is as true for immigrants as natives. If Islam is growing (which it isn't) all that means is that us secularists have to get better arguments. And that requires no regulation or changes of laws.

 

[angelo]

Wiki............
Projections[edit]

According to the Pew Research Center, Europe's population was 6% Muslim in 2010, and is projected to be 8% Muslim by 2030.[31] (The data do not reckon illegal imigration from the Middle East and Africa since the migration crisis.)
A Pew Research Center study, published in January 2011, forecasted an increase of Muslims in European population from 6% in 2010 to 8% in 2030.[31] The study also predicted that Muslim fertility rate in Europe would drop from 2.2 in 2010 to 2.0 in 2030. On the other hand, the non-Muslim fertility rate in Europe would increase from 1.5 in 2010 to 1.6 in 2030.[31] A Pew study published in 2015 projected that in 2050 Muslims will make up 10.2% of Europe's population.[44] Data for the rates of growth of Islam in Europe reveal that the growing number of Muslims is due primarily to immigration and higher birth rates.[45]

Philip Jenkins of Penn State University estimates that by 2100, Muslims will compose about 25% of Europe's population. Jenkins states this figure does not take account divergent birthrates amongst Europe's immigrant Christians.[46] Other analysts are skeptical about the accuracy of the claimed Muslim population growth, stating that because many European countries do not ask a person's religion on official forms or in censuses, it has been difficult to obtain accurate estimates, and arguing that there has been a decrease in Muslim fertility rates in Morocco, the Netherlands and Turkey.[47]

 

[angelo]

So Westerners have to prepare themselves for a radical change of culture? One that would take us all back to mediaeval times and beyond! Like for example, Malaysia.
https://www.rt.com/news/344728-malaysia-sharia-law-bill/

Don't see what the big deal is. This is just opening up a possibility for an elective Sharia. It's opt in. Not mandatory It's a parallel legal system for those who wish to take part in it.

This is already possible in the west. We don't have any legal prohibitions against this. You're free to join whatever club you want. Which is how it should be.

Why do you hate freedom?

You don't mind beheading and limb amputations, stoning of rape victims, genital mutilation of females, death for apostasy, child bride, honour killings and other sharia goodies in store for the unaware?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Don't see what the big deal is. This is just opening up a possibility for an elective Sharia. It's opt in. Not mandatory It's a parallel legal system for those who wish to take part in it.

This is already possible in the west. We don't have any legal prohibitions against this. You're free to join whatever club you want. Which is how it should be.

Why do you hate freedom?

You don't mind beheading and limb amputations, stoning of rape victims, genital mutilation of females, death for apostasy, child bride, honour killings and other sharia goodies in store for the unaware?

None of that will happen. As the article clearly states.

The prime minister also added that the punishments would be limited and canings meted out under the law “would not injure or draw blood.”

Is it possible that you didn't read the article? You just thought it was something about Sharia and then you filled in the blanks yourself?

It's the same bullshit when there's talk about the Sharia courts in Europe. All of which are pretty reasonable arbitration courts between Muslims. But people react as if limbs will start getting chopped off. Silly moral panic.

 

[bigfield]

Wiki............
Projections[edit]

 Islam in Europe

According to the Pew Research Center, Europe's population was 6% Muslim in 2010, and is projected to be 8% Muslim by 2030.[31] (The data do not reckon illegal imigration from the Middle East and Africa since the migration crisis.)
A Pew Research Center study, published in January 2011, forecasted an increase of Muslims in European population from 6% in 2010 to 8% in 2030.[31] The study also predicted that Muslim fertility rate in Europe would drop from 2.2 in 2010 to 2.0 in 2030. On the other hand, the non-Muslim fertility rate in Europe would increase from 1.5 in 2010 to 1.6 in 2030.[31] A Pew study published in 2015 projected that in 2050 Muslims will make up 10.2% of Europe's population.[44] Data for the rates of growth of Islam in Europe reveal that the growing number of Muslims is due primarily to immigration and higher birth rates.[45]

Philip Jenkins of Penn State University estimates that by 2100, Muslims will compose about 25% of Europe's population. Jenkins states this figure does not take account divergent birthrates amongst Europe's immigrant Christians.[46] Other analysts are skeptical about the accuracy of the claimed Muslim population growth, stating that because many European countries do not ask a person's religion on official forms or in censuses, it has been difficult to obtain accurate estimates, and arguing that there has been a decrease in Muslim fertility rates in Morocco, the Netherlands and Turkey.[47]

http://deathandreligion.plamienok.sk/files/21-Demographics_Religion_and_the_Future_of_Europe.pdf

Read the relevant section of the article and you'll see that Jenkins' estimate is nothing more than a back-of-the-envelope guess, and isn't actually based on a rigorous statistical analysis. More importantly, his rough estimates are based on the premise that Muslim birth rates are three times that of non-Muslims, a fact that is contradicted by Pew's more rigorous analysis.

Where is the evidence for Angelo's European Caliphate?

 

[angelo]

You don't mind beheading and limb amputations, stoning of rape victims, genital mutilation of females, death for apostasy, child bride, honour killings and other sharia goodies in store for the unaware?

None of that will happen. As the article clearly states.

The prime minister also added that the punishments would be limited and canings meted out under the law “would not injure or draw blood.”

Is it possible that you didn't read the article? You just thought it was something about Sharia and then you filled in the blanks yourself?

It's the same bullshit when there's talk about the Sharia courts in Europe. All of which are pretty reasonable arbitration courts between Muslims. But people react as if limbs will start getting chopped off. Silly moral panic.

Is it really? What's happening in places with muslim majority theocratic governments? You know, places like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc. where sharia is law or else?

 

[angelo]

 Islam in Europe
.

According to the Pew Research Center, Europe's population was 6% Muslim in 2010, and is projected to be 8% Muslim by 2030.[31] (The data do not reckon illegal imigration from the Middle East and Africa since the migration crisis.)
A Pew Research Center study, published in January 2011, forecasted an increase of Muslims in European population from 6% in 2010 to 8% in 2030.[31] The study also predicted that Muslim fertility rate in Europe would drop from 2.2 in 2010 to 2.0 in 2030. On the other hand, the non-Muslim fertility rate in Europe would increase from 1.5 in 2010 to 1.6 in 2030.[31] A Pew study published in 2015 projected that in 2050 Muslims will make up 10.2% of Europe's population.[44] Data for the rates of growth of Islam in Europe reveal that the growing number of Muslims is due primarily to immigration and higher birth rates.[45]

Philip Jenkins of Penn State University estimates that by 2100, Muslims will compose about 25% of Europe's population. Jenkins states this figure does not take account divergent birthrates amongst Europe's immigrant Christians.[46] Other analysts are skeptical about the accuracy of the claimed Muslim population growth, stating that because many European countries do not ask a person's religion on official forms or in censuses, it has been difficult to obtain accurate estimates, and arguing that there has been a decrease in Muslim fertility rates in Morocco, the Netherlands and Turkey.[47]

http://deathandreligion.plamienok.sk/files/21-Demographics_Religion_and_the_Future_of_Europe.pdf

Read the relevant section of the article and you'll see that Jenkins' estimate is nothing more than a back-of-the-envelope guess, and isn't actually based on a rigorous statistical analysis. More importantly, his rough estimates are based on the premise that Muslim birth rates are three times that of non-Muslims, a fact that is contradicted by Pew's more rigorous analysis.

Where is the evidence for Angelo's European Caliphate?

Yes, back of an envelope calculations. But ignoring the present mass immigration into Europe which throws those figures completely out of wack

 

[bigfield]

 Islam in Europe
.



http://deathandreligion.plamienok.sk/files/21-Demographics_Religion_and_the_Future_of_Europe.pdf

Read the relevant section of the article and you'll see that Jenkins' estimate is nothing more than a back-of-the-envelope guess, and isn't actually based on a rigorous statistical analysis. More importantly, his rough estimates are based on the premise that Muslim birth rates are three times that of non-Muslims, a fact that is contradicted by Pew's more rigorous analysis.

Where is the evidence for Angelo's European Caliphate?

Yes, back of an envelope calculations. But ignoring the present mass immigration into Europe which throws those figures completely out of wack

Explain to me what purpose you had in quoting the Wikipedia article despite the fact that you reject the figures it presents.

It's increasingly clear that there is no reasoning behind your posts--you just drag in whatever dogshit you've stepped in.

 

[DrZoidberg]

None of that will happen. As the article clearly states.

The prime minister also added that the punishments would be limited and canings meted out under the law “would not injure or draw blood.”

Is it possible that you didn't read the article? You just thought it was something about Sharia and then you filled in the blanks yourself?

It's the same bullshit when there's talk about the Sharia courts in Europe. All of which are pretty reasonable arbitration courts between Muslims. But people react as if limbs will start getting chopped off. Silly moral panic.

Is it really? What's happening in places with muslim majority theocratic governments? You know, places like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc. where sharia is law or else?

Just like in Europe it's European law, or else. How immoral!

The fact that a country has a majority Muslim population doesn't mean theocratic governments. There's no connection. Correlation does not imply causation.

I don't like Sharia courts. I think it's bad. But I don't think it's Satan incarnate like you think. I also don't think it's some sort of trend, or wedge of Islam into Europe. In Europe I think it's just a slice of home for the Muslim immigrants. A symbol to make a foreign land seem a little less foreign. I think that is all this is. I don't think it means shit in Europe. I don't think it means shit in Malaysia either. Just an empty symbol.

 

[TSwizzle]

Don't see what the big deal is.

That's because you are wearing blinkers coupled with addled thinking and viewing things from the comfort of your secular armchair. The people that live with these things don't have that luxury.

This is just opening up a possibility for an elective Sharia. It's opt in. Not mandatory It's a parallel legal system for those who wish to take part in it.

Says the man who knows nothing about it.

This is already possible in the west. We don't have any legal prohibitions against this. You're free to join whatever club you want. Which is how it should be.

Erm, yes we do. The sharia courts in the UK are going to be investigated following some alarming claims of abuse (domestic violence, forced marriages etc).

Why do you hate freedom?

Why do you spam this thread with your navel gazing ?

 

[whichphilosophy]

That's because you are wearing blinkers coupled with addled thinking and viewing things from the comfort of your secular armchair. The people that live with these things don't have that luxury.

This is just opening up a possibility for an elective Sharia. It's opt in. Not mandatory It's a parallel legal system for those who wish to take part in it.

Says the man who knows nothing about it.

This is already possible in the west. We don't have any legal prohibitions against this. You're free to join whatever club you want. Which is how it should be.

Erm, yes we do. The sharia courts in the UK are going to be investigated following some alarming claims of abuse (domestic violence, forced marriages etc).

Why do you hate freedom?

Why do you spam this thread with your navel gazing ?

I saw articles flying around regarding this

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...t-probe-over-treatment-of-women-a7049826.html

This is at the inquiry stage, to investigate any infringements on women's rights and violations of English Civil Law/Arbitration Act.

 

[DrZoidberg]

That's because you are wearing blinkers coupled with addled thinking and viewing things from the comfort of your secular armchair. The people that live with these things don't have that luxury.

This is just opening up a possibility for an elective Sharia. It's opt in. Not mandatory It's a parallel legal system for those who wish to take part in it.

Says the man who knows nothing about it.

You sure are demonstrating your lack of understanding of it.

This is already possible in the west. We don't have any legal prohibitions against this. You're free to join whatever club you want. Which is how it should be.

Erm, yes we do. The sharia courts in the UK are going to be investigated following some alarming claims of abuse (domestic violence, forced marriages etc).

Does not surprise me. Religious people are often backward and fucking retarded. It's not the creme-de-la-creme who signs up for this. I've never argued against this. Nor argued for religion. What I'm arguing against is that it's the religion that makes them this way. I don't see Islam as some sort of poison that seeps into the west and corrupts our young.

I see Islam more as pants with flares. It's identity. And it's harmless. When we see a pattern of Muslims doing stuff we have a tendency to say, "oh, look at what Muslims are doing". But it's just the result of the politics and culture of where Muslims typically live.

Just to clarify. I don't think belief in God is harmless, or membership of a theistic religion. I think it is very bad. But it's the credulous adult infantilisation that's the problem. People simplifying the world to help them find comfort, to the point where they're only making the world more dangerous. But which religion they pick, I think is irrelevant. And I think organised theism is just as bad as unorganised theism (for example New Age or hippies).

BTW, I think you're doing the same thing, simplifying a complex problem for comfort. I think you're seeing a perceived evil and attacking because it's easier just to blame someone or something, rather than trying to do anything about it. "If this one thing is gone, then all will be fine". No it won't.

I think you are doing the same thing as Muslims. I think you are part of the same problem our society needs to solve.

Why do you hate freedom?

Why do you spam this thread with your navel gazing ?

 

[TSwizzle]

We will multiply our descendants

The next phase of invasion is just getting started as Erdogan encourages muslims to breed more;

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has called on Muslims to reject contraception and have more children.
In a speech broadcast live on TV, he said "no Muslim family" should consider birth control or family planning. "We will multiply our descendants," said Mr Erdogan, who became president in August 2014 after serving as prime minister for 12 years. His AK Party has its roots in Islamism and many of its supporters are conservative Muslims. In Monday's speech in Istanbul, the Turkish leader placed the onus on women, particularly on "well-educated future mothers", to not use birth control and to ensure the continued growth of Turkey's population. He has also urged women to have at least three children, and has said women cannot be treated as equal to men.

BBC

 

[bilby]

The next phase of invasion is just getting started as Erdogan encourages muslims to breed more;

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has called on Muslims to reject contraception and have more children.
In a speech broadcast live on TV, he said "no Muslim family" should consider birth control or family planning. "We will multiply our descendants," said Mr Erdogan, who became president in August 2014 after serving as prime minister for 12 years. His AK Party has its roots in Islamism and many of its supporters are conservative Muslims. In Monday's speech in Istanbul, the Turkish leader placed the onus on women, particularly on "well-educated future mothers", to not use birth control and to ensure the continued growth of Turkey's population. He has also urged women to have at least three children, and has said women cannot be treated as equal to men.

BBC

Religious nutters have been appealing to their supporters to breed more since the year dot. Lots of religions do this; it's far from unique to Islam. Religious and secular leaders have always been spectacularly unsuccessful when they make this appeal to wealthy and comfortable people living in peaceful nations; Italy and Ireland spring to mind as places where the very similar appeals made by the Vatican have been roundly ignored for decades; Right-wing Australian governments have made similar appeals - including cash handouts - to try to increase fertility rates for nationalistic and secular reasons, also with no notable success.

Muslims in wealthy western nations are going to do the same - ignore the loons - within a generation of arriving. Muslims who go to primary school in Europe have European rates of reproduction - just like their Roman Catholic classmates, and for the same reasons.

 

[angelo]

That may be so in wealthy countries, it's not so in poor countries such as the Philippines where the catholic church rules most of the classes, or Nigeria and such ruled by the islamics!

 

[DrZoidberg]

That may be so in wealthy countries, it's not so in poor countries such as the Philippines where the catholic church rules most of the classes, or Nigeria and such ruled by the islamics!

Nigeria is mostly evangelical Christian. Islam is only the North half of the country. Also the most dirt poor part. Nigeria is a weird mix of a modern affluent economy living side by side with extreme poverty. Like Europe in the beginning of the 20'th century

 

[angelo]

That's the part in turmoil. No doubt about it, wherever moslems are, trouble follows. Must be their ideology!

 

[DrZoidberg]

That's the part in turmoil. No doubt about it, wherever moslems are, trouble follows. Must be their ideology!

You don't think that it might be that the Northern part is an arid Savanna and the southern part is exceedingly fertile, might explain things?

 

[angelo]

Would that explain the turmoil in most muslim majority countries?