Europe submits voluntarily

[whichphilosophy]

It's an incorrect extrapolation, because the muslims in Europe are less integrated with the general population than muslims in America. Which was my point. Evidence pointing how "nice" American muslims are because only half of them are against gays, doesn't mean the ones in Europe are just as nice. But it also cuts the other way: Trump or Pamela Geller and their ilk using examples from Europe doesn't mean shit. The US immigration policy is already pretty sensible and able to integrate muslim immigrants well enough.

Define "well integrated".

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/well-integrated
having, including, or serving members of different racial, religious, and ethnic groups as equals:


4.Sociology. of or relating to a group or society whose members interact on the basis of commonly held norms or values.


5.Psychology. characterized by integration.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Define "well integrated".

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/well-integrated
having, including, or serving members of different racial, religious, and ethnic groups as equals:


4.Sociology. of or relating to a group or society whose members interact on the basis of commonly held norms or values.


5.Psychology. characterized by integration.

What I mean is, how is it measured? What can or cannot an integrated immigrant do vs one that isn't?

 

[whichphilosophy]

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/well-integrated
having, including, or serving members of different racial, religious, and ethnic groups as equals:


4.Sociology. of or relating to a group or society whose members interact on the basis of commonly held norms or values.


5.Psychology. characterized by integration.

What I mean is, how is it measured? What can or cannot an integrated immigrant do vs one that isn't?

I think the dictionary doesn't look at that but defines different peoples of different ethnicities and religions being equals. For this work there would be observance of the laws by all and tolerance. However I think the focus on being well integrated would be a somewhat slippery slope to total conformity with a dictated norm. We are all different after all.

 

[DrZoidberg]

What I mean is, how is it measured? What can or cannot an integrated immigrant do vs one that isn't?

I think the dictionary doesn't look at that but defines different peoples of different ethnicities and religions being equals. For this work there would be observance of the laws by all and tolerance. However I think the focus on being well integrated would be a somewhat slippery slope to total conformity with a dictated norm. We are all different after all.

Ok. Well. Thanks for skipping a few steps. The entire idea of integration is ludicrous when in the heads of right wingers.

All it should mean is paying more taxes into the system than what one extracts out of the system. And that is all. As long as the immigrant does that, we should all back the fuck off.

 

[Bomb#20]

What I mean is, how is it measured? What can or cannot an integrated immigrant do vs one that isn't?

He can refrain from beating up his disobedient wife, his slutty daughter, and his gay son? He cannot pick out a spouse for his kid?

 

[DrZoidberg]

What I mean is, how is it measured? What can or cannot an integrated immigrant do vs one that isn't?

He can refrain from beating up his disobedient wife, his slutty daughter, and his gay son?

Domestic violence is distressingly common in all cultures. Also in the west. We're just trained to be blind to domestic violence in our own culture, and go absolutely ape-shit when it occurs among "people of colour". I put this in the same category as "darkie = terrorist, white = lone madman". So darkie beating wife = savage misogynistic culture, whitey beating wife = an abnormal guy with mental problems who needs help.

No culture is ok with domestic violence. It's taboo everywhere and in every culture. At most it is tolerated. What we in the west have done is make it illegal. But it's no less common in these parts. Granted that statistics on this are unreliable.

There's also the question of class. Domestic violence becomes increasingly prevalent the further down you go the social ladder. Immigrants tend to occupy the lower rungs on that ladder.

So picking this as something that is a greater problem among immigrants because of their foreign culture is just racism IMHO

He cannot pick out a spouse for his kid?

This rarely survives into the second generation of immigrants. Never a third. This is an issue for immigrants fresh off the boat. Also is typical for immigrants from farm communities. I've worked with plenty of Indian middle-class programmers (who live in India). They've never experienced it. As they put it, the kids tell the parents who to arrange a wedding with. Which incidentally is pretty much what happens in the west as well.

And to repeat myself like a parrot. Arranged marriages is standard in economies that are mostly agrarian. In economies that are mostly industrial this is a dead custom. Parents arranging marriages is more a function of the type of economy than any culture. So we know it'll die fast as fuck as soon as these families move to the west, where we don't have agrarian economies.

So, if this is how you measure integration, we have nothing to worry about.

 

[angelo]

Yea, like Europe needs a hole in the head!

Proper refugees are not a problem. We can't afford economic migrants except on contract. Perhaps we should close to Eu tunnel and build some proper fortifications designed to keep armies out. The French are no very cooperative as they are glad to get rid of the problem. 15 policemen telling people not to go into the tunnel won't do it.

I notice a lot of sheep in the picture. This gives the impression that this might be an internal migration.

No, no. It's their many wives!

 

[whichphilosophy]

Proper refugees are not a problem. We can't afford economic migrants except on contract. Perhaps we should close to Eu tunnel and build some proper fortifications designed to keep armies out. The French are no very cooperative as they are glad to get rid of the problem. 15 policemen telling people not to go into the tunnel won't do it.

I notice a lot of sheep in the picture. This gives the impression that this might be an internal migration.

No, no. It's their many wives!

Not b-a-a-a-hd. The orthodox ones should be wearing burqas and nijabs

 

[DrZoidberg]

Proper refugees are not a problem. We can't afford economic migrants except on contract. Perhaps we should close to Eu tunnel and build some proper fortifications designed to keep armies out. The French are no very cooperative as they are glad to get rid of the problem. 15 policemen telling people not to go into the tunnel won't do it.

I notice a lot of sheep in the picture. This gives the impression that this might be an internal migration.

No, no. It's their many wives!

BTW, there are strict social norms surrounding polygamy in Muslim countries. It's very few men who are ever eligible. Of course it sticks in the eyes of enlightenment ideals of equality. But life ain't fucking fair. It's very rare for a Muslim man to have more than one wife, even back in the most Islamic of countries.

 

[angelo]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/gr...axpayer-handouts/story-e6frf7jo-1225837150560

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You were saying?

 

[DrZoidberg]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/gr...axpayer-handouts/story-e6frf7jo-1225837150560

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You were saying?

Did you read the article? It only affirms exactly what I wrote. Whenever there is a way to exploit a system, people will find a way. This isn't an Islamic thing. It isn't even an immigration thing. It's a poor people doing what they can to get money thing. It is Australia's fault for creating a stupid system that can easily be exploited. It even says so right at the bottom of the article, a number of non-Muslims are also claiming to be living in polygamous relationships just to get the extra hand-outs.

It also says in the article, that according to Islamic law, if you're on welfare you're not eligible to have a second wife. So it violates both Islamic laws as well as Australian law.

 

[angelo]

Nevertheless, facts are that more than 85% of asylum seekers granted asylum are still on welfare payments 5 years later.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Nevertheless, facts are that more than 85% of asylum seekers granted asylum are still on welfare payments 5 years later.

Well.. in Sweden it's illegal for asylum seekers to get jobs. We're forcing them to only be on welfare until they become Swedish citizens, which is pretty fucking for from guaranteed. And might take more than five years. That makes it hard for us to to whine about it IMHO.

But I'm sure these numbers vary from country to country. I know that in Australia it's not possible for any immigrants to get welfare the first five years of their stay in Australia. So I think, as far as Australia is concerned, that has to be a bullshit number.

 

[TSwizzle]

All it should mean is paying more taxes into the system than what one extracts out of the system. And that is all. As long as the immigrant does that, we should all back the fuck off.

Quite. However, muslim immigrants push for an islamic agenda and special dispensations for their third world rituals. Halal meals in public institutions such as prisons (where a rising number of muslims now reside) and schools, prayer rooms too. "Sharia patrols" popping up in city centers, exams to be rescheduled for muslims observing ramadan. But I guess this is the price people will have to pay for that tasty curry and cheap cell phone repair.

 

[angelo]

Nevertheless, facts are that more than 85% of asylum seekers granted asylum are still on welfare payments 5 years later.

Well.. in Sweden it's illegal for asylum seekers to get jobs. We're forcing them to only be on welfare until they become Swedish citizens, which is pretty fucking for from guaranteed. And might take more than five years. That makes it hard for us to to whine about it IMHO.

But I'm sure these numbers vary from country to country. I know that in Australia it's not possible for any immigrants to get welfare the first five years of their stay in Australia. So I think, as far as Australia is concerned, that has to be a bullshit number.

Wrong! Asylum seekers claiming to be refugees go straight on to benefits. The cost to Australia , as in Europe I presume, runs into the billions.

 

[bigfield]

Nevertheless, facts are that more than 85% of asylum seekers granted asylum are still on welfare payments 5 years later.

You're a liar, and a stupid one at that.

From the last time you spouted this nonsense:

We could easily afford to pay 100% of asylum seekers welfare for the rest of their lives; it would hardly impact the budget at all for us to do so - however I am very sceptical indeed of that 85% figure, and would love to know whose arse it was originally pulled from.

Angelo has posted the bullshit 85% figure before, and has been refuted before, but he insists on repeating the lie because fuck, who has time to learn things when you can just read Andrew Bolt's column and get your hateful bullshit in distilled form?

Angelo got the figure from Andrew Bolt. Bolt got the figure from Simon Benson writing for the Daily Telegraph. Benson flat out made the number up because it does not appear in the SONA report he referenced.

I've pointed this out to Angelo before but he doesn't actually care that the figure is a figment of some writer's imagination--it sounds outrageous and that's good enough.

It's just plain embarrassing that people are stupid enough to believe shitlords like Bolt and the other fuckwits at News Corp. Believing their rubbish is just as stupid as believing the crap written on climate change denier blogs or creationist blogs.

In fact Andrew Bolt is one of the many twits perpetuating the lie that there has been a 15+ year pause in global warming. Are you gullible enough, Angelo, to believe Bolt when he makes that claim?

http://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?6109-Europe-submits-voluntarily/page83&p=209315#post209315

 

[DrZoidberg]

All it should mean is paying more taxes into the system than what one extracts out of the system. And that is all. As long as the immigrant does that, we should all back the fuck off.

Quite. However, muslim immigrants push for an islamic agenda and special dispensations for their third world rituals. Halal meals in public institutions such as prisons (where a rising number of muslims now reside) and schools, prayer rooms too. "Sharia patrols" popping up in city centers, exams to be rescheduled for muslims observing ramadan. But I guess this is the price people will have to pay for that tasty curry and cheap cell phone repair.

Source? I'm guessing Daily Mail aka bullshit

Also Halal meat is no extra effort to produce. So why not? Unless you read the memo, Halal meat is in no way any more cruel to the animals then what we do for non-halal meat.

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Well.. in Sweden it's illegal for asylum seekers to get jobs. We're forcing them to only be on welfare until they become Swedish citizens, which is pretty fucking for from guaranteed. And might take more than five years. That makes it hard for us to to whine about it IMHO.

But I'm sure these numbers vary from country to country. I know that in Australia it's not possible for any immigrants to get welfare the first five years of their stay in Australia. So I think, as far as Australia is concerned, that has to be a bullshit number.

Wrong! Asylum seekers claiming to be refugees go straight on to benefits. The cost to Australia , as in Europe I presume, runs into the billions.

So then they are refugees. So what's your point? I didn't know this about Australia. I thought they were Mordoras far as their treatment of refugees go

 

[TSwizzle]

Source? I'm guessing Daily Mail aka bullshit

You're shit at guessing.

Also Halal meat is no extra effort to produce. So why not? Unless you read the memo, Halal meat is in no way any more cruel to the animals then what we do for non-halal meat.

When pork sausages, chops, bacon etc are removed from the menu in order to satisfy the dietary requirements of superstitious fools it's "so what ?" When a sharia court tells a physically abused woman to return to her husband and not tell the police, is that a "so what?" too ? FGM, etc, etc, etc, "so what?". Well I guess so, as long as they are paying taxes (LOL) I suppose so.

A Muslim extremist who plotted a knife attack on a poppy seller on Remembrance Day was in touch with an ISIS member in Syria, it can be disclosed. Nadir Syed was jailed for life today after he was found guilty of preparing acts of terrorism in an attack he hoped would out-do the brutality of Lee Rigby's murder. The 23-year-old will serve a minimum sentence of 15 years before he is eligible for parole. Detectives believe Syed, of Hounslow, West London, planned to sever the head of his victim and hold it up for the camera.

DailyMail

I hope he is paying his taxes !

 

[TSwizzle]

This rarely survives into the second generation of immigrants. Never a third. This is an issue for immigrants fresh off the boat. Also is typical for immigrants from farm communities. I've worked with plenty of Indian middle-class programmers (who live in India). They've never experienced it. As they put it, the kids tell the parents who to arrange a wedding with. Which incidentally is pretty much what happens in the west as well.

And to repeat myself like a parrot. Arranged marriages is standard in economies that are mostly agrarian. In economies that are mostly industrial this is a dead custom. Parents arranging marriages is more a function of the type of economy than any culture. So we know it'll die fast as fuck as soon as these families move to the west, where we don't have agrarian economies.

So, if this is how you measure integration, we have nothing to worry about.

Nothing to worry about at all;

A businessman who tried to murder his pregnant partner in the street was today jailed for 18 years after a court heard he was 'tipped over the edge' because his mother was angry about him dating a non-Muslim. Babur Karamat Raja was caught on camera wearing a disguise and carrying a knife in his back pocket moments before he attacked his victim in Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands. He stabbed Natalie Queiroz, 40, with a large carving knife in her chest and stomach before trying to slash her throat and wrists.

DailyCan'tBeTrueMail

And this is in Birmingham, England.

 

[angelo]

You're a liar, and a stupid one at that.

From the last time you spouted this nonsense:

We could easily afford to pay 100% of asylum seekers welfare for the rest of their lives; it would hardly impact the budget at all for us to do so - however I am very sceptical indeed of that 85% figure, and would love to know whose arse it was originally pulled from.

Angelo has posted the bullshit 85% figure before, and has been refuted before, but he insists on repeating the lie because fuck, who has time to learn things when you can just read Andrew Bolt's column and get your hateful bullshit in distilled form?

Angelo got the figure from Andrew Bolt. Bolt got the figure from Simon Benson writing for the Daily Telegraph. Benson flat out made the number up because it does not appear in the SONA report he referenced.

I've pointed this out to Angelo before but he doesn't actually care that the figure is a figment of some writer's imagination--it sounds outrageous and that's good enough.

It's just plain embarrassing that people are stupid enough to believe shitlords like Bolt and the other fuckwits at News Corp. Believing their rubbish is just as stupid as believing the crap written on climate change denier blogs or creationist blogs.

In fact Andrew Bolt is one of the many twits perpetuating the lie that there has been a 15+ year pause in global warming. Are you gullible enough, Angelo, to believe Bolt when he makes that claim?

http://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?6109-Europe-submits-voluntarily/page83&p=209315#post209315

Who fuck is Bolt, and what's he got to do with the fact that well over 80% of asylum seekers are still collecting Centrelink benefits five years after being granted asylum?

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Oh, I get it. Bolt may have reported it somewhere. Then shoot the messengers!