What I mean is, how is it measured? What can or cannot an integrated immigrant do vs one that isn't?
He can refrain from beating up his disobedient wife, his slutty daughter, and his gay son?
...I put this in the same category as "darkie = terrorist, white = lone madman". So darkie beating wife = savage misogynistic culture, whitey beating wife = an abnormal guy with mental problems who needs help.
Of course you do. That's not because you have evidence. That's because you're you. You've trained yourself to see a racist behind every curtain and to regard our culture judging other cultures as taboo.
No culture is ok with domestic violence. It's taboo everywhere and in every culture. At most it is tolerated.
No. You just made that up. You don't have a reason to believe it. It's just a story you tell yourself because believing it makes you feel you aren't violating the taboo on westerners judging non-western cultures and you deserve to be allowed to respect yourself. You use true/false/evil logic instead of true/false logic -- evidence for a hypothesis only matters to you if you've first vetted the hypothesis for non-evilness. If you need to deliberately blind yourself to reality in order to avoid believing an evil hypothesis, small price.
According to Wikipedia's
Domestic Violence page:
... "Globally, wife-beating is seen as justified in some circumstances by a majority of the population in various countries, most commonly in situations of actual or suspected infidelity by wives or their "disobedience" toward a husband or partner." These violent acts against a wife are often not considered a form of abuse by society (both men and women) but are considered to have been provoked by the behavior of the wife, who is seen as being at fault. While beatings of wives are often a response to "inappropriate" behaviors, in many places extreme acts such as honor killings are approved by a high section of the society. In one survey, 33.4% of teenagers in Jordan's capital city, Amman, approved of honor killings. ... "The Reuters TrustLaw group named India one of the worst countries in the world for women this year, partly because domestic violence there is often seen as deserved. A 2012 report by UNICEF found that 57 percent of Indian boys and 53 percent of girls between the ages of 15 and 19 think wife-beating is justified."
... in a survey, 62.8% of women in Afghanistan said that a husband is justified in beating his wife if she wears inappropriate clothes.
Going by past performance, this information will roll off you without leaving a mark.
What we in the west have done is make it illegal.
That's because domestic violence
became a taboo. If it had been a taboo before we would have made it illegal before; early western civilization was not exactly
reticent about outlawing tabooed actions. Our own society hundreds of years ago is an example of a culture okay with domestic violence.
But it's no less common in these parts. Granted that statistics on this are unreliable.
I.e., you
recognize that you don't have a reason to believe domestic violence is no less common in these parts, and you believe it anyway. There's a word for that. You are a man of faith.
From the same Wikipedia page:
Research has also shown there to be a direct and significant correlation between a country's level of gender equality, and actual rates of domestic violence.
Are you also going to claim Sweden has the same level of gender equality as Jordan and India and Afghanistan?
So picking this as something that is a greater problem among immigrants because of their foreign culture is just racism IMHO
I.e., you have no moral qualms about accusing another person of racism based on nothing but faith. What the hell happened to you to leave you with such a broken moral compass?
Incidentally, has it occurred to you that racism is an utterly illogical explanation for the view you're condemning? We are talking about domestic violence as a measure of
how integrated an immigrant is. The
whole point is that the integrated
subset of immigrants conform to western standards on domestic violence, and the non-integrated
subset don't. So the immigrants are self-evidently being judged by behavior,
not by race! Everyone, regardless of race, creed or color, has the genetic capacity to come up to speed on what it takes to be a civilized person. Those who choose not to, choose not to
because of their memes, not because of their ethnicity. You might as well claim that when someone says Eichmann wanted to kill Jews because he was a Nazi, that proves she's racist against Germans. When you say "picking this as something that is a greater problem among immigrants because of their foreign culture is just racism IMHO",
you're being an idiot.
He cannot pick out a spouse for his kid?
This rarely survives into the second generation of immigrants. Never a third.
In the first place, how the heck do you know the third generation never does it? That's something you can't possibly know. You're as bad as angelo, making up stuff you have no empirical basis for believing.
And in the second place, in the context of arranged marriage, what on earth does it even mean to classify people as "the second generation" and "the third generation", as though people generally married spouses just like themselves? When an immigrant bullies his daughter into marrying his cousin from the home country so they can get him a "family reunification" visa, that's a second generation immigrant marrying a first generation immigrant. So how do you classify the granddaughter? Is she "third-generation" because of her second-generation mother, or is she "second-generation" because of her first-generation father? Whatever you label her, her immigrant father can still bully her in turn into marrying another cousin from the old country. There's no magic third-generation limit to the links in that chain.
This is an issue for immigrants fresh off the boat. Also is typical for immigrants from farm communities. I've worked with plenty of Indian middle-class programmers (who live in India). They've never experienced it.
Middle-class Indian programmers are a representative sample of the people Europe is importing, are they?
And to repeat myself like a parrot. Arranged marriages is standard in economies that are mostly agrarian. In economies that are mostly industrial this is a dead custom. ...
So, if this is how you measure integration, we have nothing to worry about.
That would only follow from your premises if Europe closes the tap on further immigration, thereby causing the descendants of immigrants to have only industrialized people to acquire customs from.
Racist much?
