Europe submits voluntarily

[Derec]

Moot point. In either case the people migrating are still less than a single percentage point of the existing population.

But they are migrating continuously and they have huge birth rates (an average Afghan woman has more than 5 children!) They are already a large proportion of population of many European cities, and even majorities in parts of these cities. Parts of Malmö (which is overall over 1/5 Islamic) look more like Mosul or Mogadishu than they look like a proper Swedish city.

o yes, it is absolutely fair to state that you're being hysterical when stating that these minorities are going to somehow fundamentally shift the pluralistic and liberalistic values of Europe as a whole.

They are an ever increasing share of the populatuion due to idiotic European migration policies that allowed millions of Muslim migrants to come in without any sort of vetting as to whether they are compatible with liberal European values.

There's plenty of things to criticize about how European governments handled the migration crisis. But the idea that these people pose some kind of existential threat to the social and cultural values of the people already living there is absurd.

That's utter bullshit. Mona "Muslim" Sahlin, former head of Swedish Social Democrats for example has said that Swedes will have do adapt to "new", Islamic Sweden rather than vice versa.

Our own Zoidberg thinks that when Muslims become a majority and do things like ban alcohol, that's just democracy in action and nothing Europeans should oppose.

Thanks to politicians like Angela Merkel and Mona Sahlin, and complacent citizens like Zoidberg and Juma, this is what Europe increasingly looks like.

 

[Derec]

There's loads of liberal Muslims.

There are some. But how many very much depends on where they come from. Places where most of this new wave of millions of Muslim migrants come from are staunchly conservative and fundamentalist. 99% of Afghans support Sharia law. 91% or Iraqis do. And so on.

And note that not supporting Sharia does not necessarily make one a liberal Muslims. So the numbers of actual liberal Muslims from these places are tiny minority indeed. Less than 1% in Afghanistan, less than 10% in Iraq. Somalia is not listed here, but their Muslims tend to be fundamentalist as well - remember the stories of Somali "refugees" working as taxi drivers in Minnesota refusing to pick up customers who had alcohol on them. Or Somali "refugees" supporting Al Shabab.
2 Minnesota Women Sentenced In Somali Terror Case

Note that Somali atheist and Islam critic Ayaan Hirsi Ali is being viciously attacked by the islamophilic Left (for example SPLC) for daring to criticize Islam.

Europe is importing millions of mostly fundamentalist Muslims who breed like rabbits. I hope you wake up and realize that this is not like immigration of a few tens of thousand Bosnians in the 90s - both in quantity and quality - before it is too late and you become dhimmis in your own lands.

 

[repoman]

 

[LordKiran]

But they are migrating continuously and they have huge birth rates (an average Afghan woman has more than 5 children!) They are already a large proportion of population of many European cities, and even majorities in parts of these cities. Parts of Malmö (which is overall over 1/5 Islamic) look more like Mosul or Mogadishu than they look like a proper Swedish city.

o yes, it is absolutely fair to state that you're being hysterical when stating that these minorities are going to somehow fundamentally shift the pluralistic and liberalistic values of Europe as a whole.

They are an ever increasing share of the populatuion due to idiotic European migration policies that allowed millions of Muslim migrants to come in without any sort of vetting as to whether they are compatible with liberal European values.

There's plenty of things to criticize about how European governments handled the migration crisis. But the idea that these people pose some kind of existential threat to the social and cultural values of the people already living there is absurd.

That's utter bullshit. Mona "Muslim" Sahlin, former head of Swedish Social Democrats for example has said that Swedes will have do adapt to "new", Islamic Sweden rather than vice versa.

Our own Zoidberg thinks that when Muslims become a majority and do things like ban alcohol, that's just democracy in action and nothing Europeans should oppose.

Thanks to politicians like Angela Merkel and Mona Sahlin, and complacent citizens like Zoidberg and Juma, this is what Europe increasingly looks like.

Derec repeating the same bullshit that's already been addressed elsewhere is not an argument. Do you just think we don't have memories and that we can't remember when someone else rebuked your "They're outbreeding us!" hysterical bullshit?

 

[Derec]

Derec repeating the same bullshit that's already been addressed elsewhere is not an argument. Do you just think we don't have memories and that we can't remember when someone else rebuked your "They're outbreeding us!" hysterical bullshit?

Except that neither you nor anybody else has shows that to be bullshit. On the contrary. Muslims are literally flooding into Europe and they have huge birth rates. You can loudly "rebuke" all you want, but you can't refute this because your position is false and naive.

 

[bilby]

Derec repeating the same bullshit that's already been addressed elsewhere is not an argument. Do you just think we don't have memories and that we can't remember when someone else rebuked your "They're outbreeding us!" hysterical bullshit?

Except that neither you nor anybody else has shows that to be bullshit. On the contrary. Muslims are literally flooding into Europe and they have huge birth rates. You can loudly "rebuke" all you want, but you can't refute this because your position is false and naive.

Well, you would know, you read it in the Daily Mail.

 

[Derec]

Well, you would know, you read it in the Daily Mail.

Even if I had, which I did not, it would be an example of the genetic fallacy.

What is your reason to think that taking in millions of Muslim migrants each year, migrants that have very high birth rates, will not result in Europeans becoming a minority in Europe over the next few decades?

It's an invasion. A new Charles Martel is needed!

 

[bilby]

Well, you would know, you read it in the Daily Mail.

Even if I had, which I did not, it would be an example of the genetic fallacy.

What is your reason to think that taking in millions of Muslim migrants each year, migrants that have very high birth rates, will not result in Europeans becoming a minority in Europe over the next few decades?

Because Europeans are defined by their being in Europe. It is a contradiction in terms for Europeans to become a minority in Europe.

Of course, what you MEAN is that you fear that white people will become a minority in Europe. It's not going to happen, but I have yet to hear any argument why it would be bad if it did, other than the insane idea that Fundamentalist Islam is an inseparable trait of these brown people and their descendants.

This despite the fact that they are trying to escape Islamic fundamentalism; The fact that their children and grandchildren demonstrably mostly grow up as secular Europeans and abandon religion altogether; And the fact that being a minority in Europe isn't a bad thing anyway.

It's an invasion. A new Charles Martel is needed!

Yes, going back to the dark ages is always a good idea.

What fucking stupid crap. Fuck off, and take your ignorant bias with you.

https://www.wired.com/2017/02/cognitive-bias-president-trump-understands-better/

Psychologists call this bias the “availability heuristic,” an effect Trump has sought to exploit since the launch of his presidential campaign, when he referred to undocumented Mexican immigrants as rapists.

“It basically works the way memory works: you judge the frequency, the probability, of something based on how easily you can bring it to mind,” says Northeastern University psychologist John Coley. “Creating a vivid, salient image like that is a great way to make it memorable.”

This is the same bias that makes you fear swimming in the ocean lest you get attacked by a shark, despite shark attacks being far less common than, say, death by coconut. When something is memorable, it tends to be the thing you think of first, and then it has an outsize influence on your understanding of the world. After the movie Jaws came out, a generation of people was afraid to swim in the sea—not because shark attacks were more likely but because all those movie viewers could more readily imagine them.

Your constant bombarding of this board with pictures and memes (rather than written argument and considered discussion of facts) is symptomatic of this bias, and of an attempt to inflict it upon others. You need to stop doing this, and wake up to the demonstrable fact that refugees are no more likely to be rapists than anyone else. Your ability to find stories about rapist refugees does NOT contradict this fact, no matter how much you feel like it does or should.

 

[Bomb#20]

You need to stop doing this, and wake up to the demonstrable fact that refugees are no more likely to be rapists than anyone else. Your ability to find stories about rapist refugees does NOT contradict this fact, no matter how much you feel like it does or should.

The hypothesis that refugees are no more likely to be rapists than anyone else is not a demonstrable fact, no matter how much you feel like it is or should be. If you seriously think it is, and if you're serious about backing up your claims when you boldface "fact" to give your unsupported assertions whatever extra bit of oomph you feel it supplies, feel free to try to demonstrate your hypothesis to be factual. Then watch your "demonstration" get shredded six ways to Sunday.

 

[DrZoidberg]

You need to stop doing this, and wake up to the demonstrable fact that refugees are no more likely to be rapists than anyone else. Your ability to find stories about rapist refugees does NOT contradict this fact, no matter how much you feel like it does or should.

The hypothesis that refugees are no more likely to be rapists than anyone else is not a demonstrable fact, no matter how much you feel like it is or should be. If you seriously think it is, and if you're serious about backing up your claims when you boldface "fact" to give your unsupported assertions whatever extra bit of oomph you feel it supplies, feel free to try to demonstrate your hypothesis to be factual. Then watch your "demonstration" get shredded six ways to Sunday.

This is something that has been studied extensively

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime

Whenever any of these studies come out racists brand them as fake news or liberal bias media or whatever. Even though it's proper research with all the bells and whistles.

I'm not sure what more we (not racists) can do to prove it?

Anecdotally a lot of Swedish women often feel uncomfortable around immigrants (whatever their origin) because when they're right off the boat they just don't know our social rules for interacting. Rules for inter-gender interaction is the most complex cultural artefact our species has. There's room for lots of misunderstanding. But misunderstandings do not make a rape. Regardless how uncomfortable a woman feels. No culture is ok with rape and every culture has clear boundaries about it. Also, something we all learn real fast in a new country.

Add to that cultures where men and women are physically separated and do not get a chance to interact. Those people all suck ass at dating. When it comes to dating they're basically children and should be treated as such. No, it's not just Muslims. It's got nothing to do with religion. To hark back to my earlier arguments, it has to do with the economy. The more industrialised an economy the more gender mixing goes on. The less industrialised the more people suck at inter-gender communication. But these too learn, even though they'll be behind the curve their entire lives. They still learn fast.

A good western example is closeted gay men who finally come out. When they finally come out they're all basically teenage boys exploring sex for the first time. So they make all the mistakes and suck a lot of the time. No, the other kind of suck. The bad kind. The kind that doesn't get to suck. Have no clue what other men think is sexy. Don't understand the difference between seductive and pathetic. Have no clue how to show interest while also keeping a respectful distance. All of that. But give them a couple of years and they catch on. Same with immigrants.

 

[Bomb#20]

The hypothesis that refugees are no more likely to be rapists than anyone else is not a demonstrable fact, no matter how much you feel like it is or should be. If you seriously think it is, and if you're serious about backing up your claims when you boldface "fact" to give your unsupported assertions whatever extra bit of oomph you feel it supplies, feel free to try to demonstrate your hypothesis to be factual. Then watch your "demonstration" get shredded six ways to Sunday.

This is something that has been studied extensively

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime

Whenever any of these studies come out racists brand them as fake news or liberal bias media or whatever. Even though it's proper research with all the bells and whistles.

I'm not sure what more we (not racists) can do to prove it?

Good god, man, are virtue signalling and trumped-up racism accusations all you've got left in your rhetoric toolbox? What the heck happened to you to make your brain work that way? Your link does not assert what Bilby claimed! You obviously know perfectly well that rape rates cannot be measured with anywhere close to enough accuracy to support Bilby's ridiculous claim that his opinion is "demonstrable fact", because you've pointed that out yourself, any number of times, when the inevitable mushiness of rape statistics worked in your rhetorical favor. So for you now to trot out a source that offers nothing in support of your position but a few vague generalities like "The academic literature provides mixed findings for the relationship between immigration and crime worldwide", and pretend it's demonstrating refugees definitely do not commit more rapes, is pure hypocrisy.

In 2010, a spokesperson for the Oslo Police Department stated that every case of assault rapes in Oslo in the years 2007, 2008 and 2009 was committed by a non-Western immigrant.[81] When only perpetrators in the solved cases were counted, it was found that four of the victims in the 16 unsolved cases described the perpetrator as being of White (not necessarily Norwegian) ethnicity.

A 2011 report by the Oslo Police District shows that of the 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while 54.2% were of Norwegian, other European or American origin. In the cases of "assault rape", i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals, the 5 identified individuals were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. In the cases of assault rape where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, 8 of the perpetrators were of African/dark-skinned appearance, 4 were Western/light/Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance.

Go ahead. Brand your own source as "fake news" or "right-wing bias".

No culture is ok with rape and every culture has clear boundaries about it.

That is pure make-believe on your part. You have zero evidence for it. You believe it only because it makes you feel good to believe it. In particular, a great many cultures are perfectly okay with marital rape. Western culture was too as recently as a couple of hundred years ago. Forcing one's wife to have sex was considered a husband's right. Submitting to sex was considered a wifely duty.

A good western example is closeted gay men who finally come out. ... But give them a couple of years and they catch on. Same with immigrants.

Even if we were to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that that's a perfect analogy, it would not support the contention that refugees are no more likely to be rapists than anyone else. The most it could imply is that refugees' rape rates will drop to the level among natives within a couple of years of arrival. Not the same thing.

So why don't you back off and let Bilby argue his own case? You aren't as good at arguing as he is.

 

[DrZoidberg]

This is something that has been studied extensively

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime

Whenever any of these studies come out racists brand them as fake news or liberal bias media or whatever. Even though it's proper research with all the bells and whistles.

I'm not sure what more we (not racists) can do to prove it?

Good god, man, are virtue signalling and trumped-up racism accusations all you've got left in your rhetoric toolbox? What the heck happened to you to make your brain work that way? Your link does not assert what Bilby claimed! You obviously know perfectly well that rape rates cannot be measured with anywhere close to enough accuracy to support Bilby's ridiculous claim that his opinion is "demonstrable fact", because you've pointed that out yourself, any number of times, when the inevitable mushiness of rape statistics worked in your rhetorical favor. So for you now to trot out a source that offers nothing in support of your position but a few vague generalities like "The academic literature provides mixed findings for the relationship between immigration and crime worldwide", and pretend it's demonstrating refugees definitely do not commit more rapes, is pure hypocrisy.

Thanks for pointing it out. Yup, that to. Which is yet another reason to relax. Claiming that because we don't know therefore immigrants did it, is argument from ignorance.

But let's hope that these serious studies have taken that into account. Even though they might not study rape generally, they can still study something very specific. Which may not give the whole answer, but give an indication of something.

In Sweden all information of who is convicted of anything is freely available. Their social security number is published and available to anybody. Anybody with a social security number ending in a 5 is an immigrant. So extremely easy to do immigrant vs non-immigrants research in Sweden.

 

[TSwizzle]

Rinkeby burns, but not to worry, it will all take care of itself somehow;

Riots have broken out in the Swedish suburb that Donald Trump referred to in his speech about immigration problems.
Police were forced to fire warning shots after a group of rioters began setting fire to cars, throwing stones at police and looting shops in the Rinkeby district of Stockholm on Monday night. A police officer was injured during the clashes, Swedish public service broadcaster SVT reported. Police said in a statement that at least seven or eight cars were burned in the district, which has one of the largest immigrant populations in Stockholm, during Monday's disorder.

DailyMail making shit up again

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Even if I had, which I did not, it would be an example of the genetic fallacy.

What is your reason to think that taking in millions of Muslim migrants each year, migrants that have very high birth rates, will not result in Europeans becoming a minority in Europe over the next few decades?

Because Europeans are defined by their being in Europe. It is a contradiction in terms for Europeans to become a minority in Europe.

Of course, what you MEAN is that you fear that white people will become a minority in Europe. It's not going to happen, but I have yet to hear any argument why it would be bad if it did, other than the insane idea that Fundamentalist Islam is an inseparable trait of these brown people and their descendants.

This isn't a racial issue. It's a cultural and economic issue.

Some of us don't want to see western culture replaced with Arabic culture, first world culture replaced with third world culture. I don't give a hoot what color people's skin is. Remember, my wife is non-white.

This despite the fact that they are trying to escape Islamic fundamentalism; The fact that their children and grandchildren demonstrably mostly grow up as secular Europeans and abandon religion altogether; And the fact that being a minority in Europe isn't a bad thing anyway.

The true refugees. Unfortunately, most are not true refugees, but those coming for economic reasons--and that is where the main problem lies. Arrive, destroy their documents and the governments aren't willing to do what is needed to deal with the problem. The only solution is to make life more unpleasant for those economic migrants than it was back home--and realistically that means internment camps.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Rinkeby burns, but not to worry, it will all take care of itself somehow;

Riots have broken out in the Swedish suburb that Donald Trump referred to in his speech about immigration problems.
Police were forced to fire warning shots after a group of rioters began setting fire to cars, throwing stones at police and looting shops in the Rinkeby district of Stockholm on Monday night. A police officer was injured during the clashes, Swedish public service broadcaster SVT reported. Police said in a statement that at least seven or eight cars were burned in the district, which has one of the largest immigrant populations in Stockholm, during Monday's disorder.

DailyMail making shit up again

You're learning. Congrats

 

[TSwizzle]

Rinkeby burns, but not to worry, it will all take care of itself somehow;



DailyMail making shit up again

You're learning. Congrats

I put the "making shit up again" to save you the trouble of responding. But you couldn't help yourself, you respond anyway.

 

[DrZoidberg]

You're learning. Congrats

I put the "making shit up again" to save you the trouble of responding. But you couldn't help yourself, you respond anyway.

That doesn't explain why you post things that you know are just make belief?

 

[Bomb#20]

That doesn't explain why you post things that you know are just make belief?

He was being sarcastic. Were you unable to pick up on that, or are you posting things that you know are just make believe?

The fact that the Daily Mail is unreliable plus the fact that an incident is reported in the Daily Mail do not constitute evidence that the incident is make believe.

 

[DrZoidberg]

That doesn't explain why you post things that you know are just make belief?

He was being sarcastic. Were you unable to pick up on that, or are you posting things that you know are just make believe?

The fact that the Daily Mail is unreliable plus the fact that an incident is reported in the Daily Mail do not constitute evidence that the incident is make believe.

That incident was a drug bust that went bad. Two cops tried to arrest a large gang of drug dealers who threw stones at the cops to get away. Much mayhem ensued. The cops had just misread the situation. It happens. Cops came back with re-enforcement to sort it out.

There's nothing in this story about immigration, Muslims or anythung else relevant to this thread. People live in Rinkeby because housing is cheap there. It's full of people with low status in society. People like drug dealers. Also immigrants right off the boat. But it's Sweden so it's still not bad. Not a ghetto. Not a no-go zone.

So yes, the article is make believe. The fact that they have a picture of burning cars doesn't support the rest of the story.

The BBC article you linked to on the other hand is accurate. They are different.

 

[Warpoet]

Enough of your sticking the head in the sand and pretending that Islam is not a clear and present danger to the West.

It isn't. The alarmist shit you pull out of the alt-right blogosphere aside, "Islam," by any metric, constitutes a miniscule threat to "the West" in comparison to things like uncontrolled gun violence (in the US anyway), rampant obesity, global warming, and the mass insanity that led to Donald Trump acquiring control of America's nuclear arsenal. It's been pointed out to you countless times before and you never come up with a valid reason why you focus on the first issue over all the rest. But we all know why, Derec. It's because you're a fucking bigot.

Parts of Malmö (which is overall over 1/5 Islamic) look more like Mosul or Mogadishu than they look like a proper Swedish city.

How the fuck would you know?

There are some. But how many very much depends on where they come from

Which demonstrates unequivocally that the question is more complicated than religious doctrine alone. But that's what you like to fixate on, because it suits your biases. And by the way, since you're quoting Pew, I note you make no mention of the fact that their projections show Muslims becoming barely 10% of Europe's overall population by 2050. Ten percent. So fuck off with your cherry-picking of the data.

Assholes like you and the far-right-wing politicians who feed off of your stupidity are the ones leading first world societies backwards, not Muslims.