Europe submits voluntarily

[DrZoidberg]

Aryan Hirsi Ali would disagree with you! Most critics of the "ReligionOf Peace" are not welcome to speak on campus and many public forums.

You can't have it both ways. Either Islam is inherently a violent religion inseparable from reformist Islam, or Islam can be reformed. So which is it?Do you think Islam can be a religion of peace, ie the Clarion project, or not?

Whichphilosphy's statement was that reformist Muslims weren't allowed to speak at universities. Which I question, since most Muslims today are moderate. Moderate Muslims and Imams make reformist statements all the time. There's loads of reformist liberal mosques. Hell, there's even gay mosques. While all of this seems to be going on unmolested I find the idea that Clarion Project speakers specifically being banned highly doubtful. Banned from what university?

You are wrong about Aayan Hirsi Ali. She wrote in 2015 the book "Heretic: Why Islam Needs a Reformation Now". She clearly thinks Islam can be reformed.

 

[angelo]

Islamic reformists are called "not real muslims" by the majority of Muslims. For every Aryan there are 100.000 muslims who don't see a problem in their death cult. For example, more than 60% of German muslims, especially second generation agree with the statement that they are muslims first, Germans second.
A high percentage of them want sharia law. Very few would report a terrorist plot.
Around 30% [ a conservative number] condone the murder of infidels,
Reformation has to come from within the cult, but those muslims who do see it has a big problem, keep it to themselves for fear of not only muslim mobs, but PC Western left mobs as well.

 

[TSwizzle]

There's loads of reformist liberal mosques. Hell, there's even gay mosques. While all of this seems to be going on unmolested {snip}

Not really. And there are far, far more mosques churning out jihadists in the hundreds.

 

[DrZoidberg]

There's loads of reformist liberal mosques. Hell, there's even gay mosques. While all of this seems to be going on unmolested {snip}

Not really. And there are far, far more mosques churning out jihadists in the hundreds.

Considering there's nearly a billion Muslims, a couple of hundred Jihadi's is pretty good. Any group of people will have it's idiots, and if this is all, they're doing alright.

There's loads of gay mosques. Perhaps not in Iran and Saudi Arabia. But they seem to have them all over the civilised world.

https://www.google.se/search?q=gay+.....69i57j0l5.1984j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[DrZoidberg]

Islamic reformists are called "not real muslims" by the majority of Muslims. For every Aryan there are 100.000 muslims who don't see a problem in their death cult. For example, more than 60% of German muslims, especially second generation agree with the statement that they are muslims first, Germans second.
A high percentage of them want sharia law. Very few would report a terrorist plot.
Around 30% [ a conservative number] condone the murder of infidels,
Reformation has to come from within the cult, but those muslims who do see it has a big problem, keep it to themselves for fear of not only muslim mobs, but PC Western left mobs as well.

Did you hear that? I think it's bagpipes. Is it perhaps the No True Scotsman marching in the distance?

No religious person gives a flying fuck about their holy text.

 

[TSwizzle]

Not really. And there are far, far more mosques churning out jihadists in the hundreds.

Considering there's nearly a billion Muslims, a couple of hundred Jihadi's is pretty good. Any group of people will have it's idiots, and if this is all, they're doing alright.

No it's not alright and it's not a couple of hundred either. I don't accept that allah's holy warriors mowing down and killing 15 pedestrians and injuring hundreds more or self detonating outside concert venues is "doing alright". I wonder if the citizens of Raqqa feel they are "doing alright".

 

[LordKiran]

Considering there's nearly a billion Muslims, a couple of hundred Jihadi's is pretty good. Any group of people will have it's idiots, and if this is all, they're doing alright.

No it's not alright and it's not a couple of hundred either. I don't accept that allah's holy warriors mowing down and killing 15 pedestrians and injuring hundreds more or self detonating outside concert venues is "doing alright". I wonder if the citizens of Raqqa feel they are "doing alright".

Given that G.B. is experiencing fewer bombings today than they were 30-40 years ago, I'd call it a marked improvement in the state of affairs.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The Clarion Project is funded by this guy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheldon_Adelson

Highlights
1) Philanthropist supporting the war on drugs
2) He's against Internet gambling and thinks it's evil. This is from a guy who has built his fortune on owning and running casinos. I guess he was late on the Internet casino gravy train and now has regrets.
3) Trump supporter.

Before I take this seriously I need to be convinced that the Clarion Project isn't just another Jihadwatch. Is it?

edit: for some reason I uncritically accepted that they had been banned from universities. Realised this, and double checked. I didn't find any reference to it. I don't think it's true. I don't think these guys are banned from speaking anywhere in the Western world. What is your source?

I'll agree he's not exactly an upstanding citizen. That doesn't mean everything he does is bad, though. His funding is a reason to look with caution, not a reason to categorically reject.

As for that internet gambling thing--I don't think he's being a hypocrite. Nevada casinos are subject to some pretty strict regulation to keep them honest and to keep the criminal elements out. There have been multiple scandals with online poker that shows that the regulation leaves a lot to be desired even when it supposedly exists.

Unfortunately, WTO isn't going to permit a country to say that they'll only permit internet gambling that meets their regulatory standards. Thus the answer is not to permit it at all.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Not really. And there are far, far more mosques churning out jihadists in the hundreds.

Considering there's nearly a billion Muslims, a couple of hundred Jihadi's is pretty good. Any group of people will have it's idiots, and if this is all, they're doing alright.

There's loads of gay mosques. Perhaps not in Iran and Saudi Arabia. But they seem to have them all over the civilised world.

https://www.google.se/search?q=gay+.....69i57j0l5.1984j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

He was counting jihadis in Germany, not the whole world.

- - - Updated - - -

No it's not alright and it's not a couple of hundred either. I don't accept that allah's holy warriors mowing down and killing 15 pedestrians and injuring hundreds more or self detonating outside concert venues is "doing alright". I wonder if the citizens of Raqqa feel they are "doing alright".

Given that G.B. is experiencing fewer bombings today than they were 30-40 years ago, I'd call it a marked improvement in the state of affairs.

Most of the Islamist attacks have been on the continent.

 

[LordKiran]

Considering there's nearly a billion Muslims, a couple of hundred Jihadi's is pretty good. Any group of people will have it's idiots, and if this is all, they're doing alright.

There's loads of gay mosques. Perhaps not in Iran and Saudi Arabia. But they seem to have them all over the civilised world.

https://www.google.se/search?q=gay+.....69i57j0l5.1984j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

He was counting jihadis in Germany, not the whole world.

- - - Updated - - -

No it's not alright and it's not a couple of hundred either. I don't accept that allah's holy warriors mowing down and killing 15 pedestrians and injuring hundreds more or self detonating outside concert venues is "doing alright". I wonder if the citizens of Raqqa feel they are "doing alright".

Given that G.B. is experiencing fewer bombings today than they were 30-40 years ago, I'd call it a marked improvement in the state of affairs.

Most of the Islamist attacks have been on the continent.

So have most Catalonian separatist attacks, what's your point?

 

[whichphilosophy]

No it's not alright and it's not a couple of hundred either. I don't accept that allah's holy warriors mowing down and killing 15 pedestrians and injuring hundreds more or self detonating outside concert venues is "doing alright". I wonder if the citizens of Raqqa feel they are "doing alright".

Given that G.B. is experiencing fewer bombings today than they were 30-40 years ago, I'd call it a marked improvement in the state of affairs.

That is because we have prevented several for each one that goes off. We still have a problem with terrorism as all the major parties in the UK and the majority of Muslims agree.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Given that G.B. is experiencing fewer bombings today than they were 30-40 years ago, I'd call it a marked improvement in the state of affairs.

That is because we have prevented several for each one that goes off. We still have a problem with terrorism as all the major parties in the UK and the majority of Muslims agree.

I don't think that's true. I think the reports of foiled terrorist attacks are just propaganda, ie lies and spin. The reason why I believe that is because it's so easy to carry out a terrorist attack. Easier than ever before. All the information is on the Internet. With the world economy being the way it is, any moron has access to weaponry.

And if you look closer to any of the information that has leaked out, all the foiled terrorist attacks have been uncovered because of leaks within the terrorist cell, or someone's parents finding out. Terrorists seem to be their own worst enemy. Just give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves. None of it is because of police work. It's impossible to protect ourselves against terror. That's just a fact.

The police force is an exceedingly blunt tool for social control. It's not well suited for catching terrorists. If you want to catch terrorists you'll first need a police state.

 

[bilby]

That is because we have prevented several for each one that goes off. We still have a problem with terrorism as all the major parties in the UK and the majority of Muslims agree.

I don't think that's true. I think the reports of foiled terrorist attacks are just propaganda, ie lies and spin. The reason why I believe that is because it's so easy to carry out a terrorist attack. Easier than ever before. All the information is on the Internet. With the world economy being the way it is, any moron has access to weaponry.

And if you look closer to any of the information that has leaked out, all the foiled terrorist attacks have been uncovered because of leaks within the terrorist cell, or someone's parents finding out. Terrorists seem to be their own worst enemy. Just give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves. None of it is because of police work. It's impossible to protect ourselves against terror. That's just a fact.

The police force is an exceedingly blunt tool for social control. It's not well suited for catching terrorists. If you want to catch terrorists you'll first need a police state.

And perhaps more worryingly, if you want to establish a police state, you'll first need to persuade people that they need to fear terrorists, more than they fear tyranny.

 

[whichphilosophy]

I don't think that's true. I think the reports of foiled terrorist attacks are just propaganda, ie lies and spin. The reason why I believe that is because it's so easy to carry out a terrorist attack. Easier than ever before. All the information is on the Internet. With the world economy being the way it is, any moron has access to weaponry.

And if you look closer to any of the information that has leaked out, all the foiled terrorist attacks have been uncovered because of leaks within the terrorist cell, or someone's parents finding out. Terrorists seem to be their own worst enemy. Just give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves. None of it is because of police work. It's impossible to protect ourselves against terror. That's just a fact.

The police force is an exceedingly blunt tool for social control. It's not well suited for catching terrorists. If you want to catch terrorists you'll first need a police state.

And perhaps more worryingly, if you want to establish a police state, you'll first need to persuade people that they need to fear terrorists, more than they fear tyranny.

If terrorists bear arms, then the police need access to arms. Tyranny has nothing to do with it. Saying, "Hello, hello hello, that's not allowed," simply wont work.

- - - Updated - - -

That is because we have prevented several for each one that goes off. We still have a problem with terrorism as all the major parties in the UK and the majority of Muslims agree.

I don't think that's true. I think the reports of foiled terrorist attacks are just propaganda, ie lies and spin. The reason why I believe that is because it's so easy to carry out a terrorist attack. Easier than ever before. All the information is on the Internet. With the world economy being the way it is, any moron has access to weaponry.

And if you look closer to any of the information that has leaked out, all the foiled terrorist attacks have been uncovered because of leaks within the terrorist cell, or someone's parents finding out. Terrorists seem to be their own worst enemy. Just give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves. None of it is because of police work. It's impossible to protect ourselves against terror. That's just a fact.

The police force is an exceedingly blunt tool for social control. It's not well suited for catching terrorists. If you want to catch terrorists you'll first need a police state.

A lot of the intelligence comes from the Muslim community, even relatives. Maybe there is propaganda or window dressing but I'm sure there have been successes.

 

[angelo]

That is because we have prevented several for each one that goes off. We still have a problem with terrorism as all the major parties in the UK and the majority of Muslims agree.

I don't think that's true. I think the reports of foiled terrorist attacks are just propaganda, ie lies and spin. The reason why I believe that is because it's so easy to carry out a terrorist attack. Easier than ever before. All the information is on the Internet. With the world economy being the way it is, any moron has access to weaponry.

And if you look closer to any of the information that has leaked out, all the foiled terrorist attacks have been uncovered because of leaks within the terrorist cell, or someone's parents finding out. Terrorists seem to be their own worst enemy. Just give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves. None of it is because of police work. It's impossible to protect ourselves against terror. That's just a fact.

The police force is an exceedingly blunt tool for social control. It's not well suited for catching terrorists. If you want to catch terrorists you'll first need a police state.

This is just figures for Australia. There are many times more than that in EU.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...d/news-story/3f0f800ab00f028a9ec6a72d27cf2843

 

[angelo]

Okay, forget my last link about Australia. Look at the alarming figure for the UK!
https://www.rt.com/uk/389945-thousands-potential-terrorists-britain/

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That is because we have prevented several for each one that goes off. We still have a problem with terrorism as all the major parties in the UK and the majority of Muslims agree.

I don't think that's true. I think the reports of foiled terrorist attacks are just propaganda, ie lies and spin. The reason why I believe that is because it's so easy to carry out a terrorist attack. Easier than ever before. All the information is on the Internet. With the world economy being the way it is, any moron has access to weaponry.

And if you look closer to any of the information that has leaked out, all the foiled terrorist attacks have been uncovered because of leaks within the terrorist cell, or someone's parents finding out. Terrorists seem to be their own worst enemy. Just give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves. None of it is because of police work. It's impossible to protect ourselves against terror. That's just a fact.

The police force is an exceedingly blunt tool for social control. It's not well suited for catching terrorists. If you want to catch terrorists you'll first need a police state.

I do agree the ones that are foiled are due to leaks. Why does that make it fake, though? The people that carry out the attacks aren't exactly the smartest people. The masterminds are smart but they're not the ones getting caught.

 

[4321lynx]

I don't think that's true. I think the reports of foiled terrorist attacks are just propaganda, ie lies and spin. The reason why I believe that is because it's so easy to carry out a terrorist attack. Easier than ever before. All the information is on the Internet. With the world economy being the way it is, any moron has access to weaponry.

And if you look closer to any of the information that has leaked out, all the foiled terrorist attacks have been uncovered because of leaks within the terrorist cell, or someone's parents finding out. Terrorists seem to be their own worst enemy. Just give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves. None of it is because of police work. It's impossible to protect ourselves against terror. That's just a fact.

The police force is an exceedingly blunt tool for social control. It's not well suited for catching terrorists. If you want to catch terrorists you'll first need a police state.

And perhaps more worryingly, if you want to establish a police state, you'll first need to persuade people that they need to fear terrorists, more than they fear tyranny.

If you ignore Islamic terrorism, or aid it in some other way until it wins, you are sure to get a "police state" based on the sharia law. Is that not a form of tyranny? Are the terrorists fighting for an Islamic democracy?

 

[bilby]

And perhaps more worryingly, if you want to establish a police state, you'll first need to persuade people that they need to fear terrorists, more than they fear tyranny.

If you ignore Islamic terrorism, or aid it in some other way until it wins, you are sure to get a "police state" based on the sharia law. Is that not a form of tyranny? Are the terrorists fighting for an Islamic democracy?

Could you please outline a plausible scenario in which Islamic terrorism 'wins' to the point where advocates of Sharia Law are able to implement it in an OECD country?

Because that sounds to me to be about as plausible as the IRA bombings leading to Sinn Fein as the largest single party in Westminster - ie a fucking batshit nutso idea, that only a total moron could possibly take seriously for even a microsecond.

But perhaps I am missing something?

 

[4321lynx]

If you ignore Islamic terrorism, or aid it in some other way until it wins, you are sure to get a "police state" based on the sharia law. Is that not a form of tyranny? Are the terrorists fighting for an Islamic democracy?

Could you please outline a plausible scenario in which Islamic terrorism 'wins' to the point where advocates of Sharia Law are able to implement it in an OECD country?

Because that sounds to me to be about as plausible as the IRA bombings leading to Sinn Fein as the largest single party in Westminster - ie a fucking batshit nutso idea, that only a total moron could possibly take seriously for even a microsecond.

But perhaps I am missing something?

You8re missing the fact that people said the same sort ofthing about Hitler and the Nazis. Ever heard of them?