Europe submits voluntarily

[bilby]

Even if the government purchased all of them there would still be a shortage.

Further the figures include those waiting for tenants and owners to move in so the surplus is somewhat inflated.

That may or may not be so.
Your post is still a derail. The housing shortage, real as it may be, isn't going to go away if instead of Iraqis, Poles move in. On the question of whether or not proclaiming that "Europe submits voluntarily" is baseless hyperbole, arrived at by misapplying math one doesn't understand to assumptions that can be demonstrated to be false, it thus has exactly this much bearing: 0.0

There s no misapplication of maths,. The main reason against mass immigration is the acute shortage of housing schools and healthcare which cannot keep up. Of course mass migration creates more jobs like Polish midwives to pull out the babies, translators as less English is spoken and so forth. Exacerbating this ‘Austerity’ meant credit restrictions forcing small and several self-employed builders out of business

If just 0.01% are terrorists and some others that way inclined, that’s enough based on volume alone, thus increasing security issues.

The UK shortages of housing, schools and healthcare are due to the government policy of 'austerity', which means 'not buying things that are needed because of an insane insistence on a fictional "balanced budget"'.

UK population has grown far faster in the past, without such 'problems' emerging; they are directly caused by the economic ignorance of the government, and would exist with or without immigration.

Immigrants are an excellent scapegoat though.

 

[whichphilosophy]

There s no misapplication of maths,. The main reason against mass immigration is the acute shortage of housing schools and healthcare which cannot keep up. Of course mass migration creates more jobs like Polish midwives to pull out the babies, translators as less English is spoken and so forth. Exacerbating this ‘Austerity’ meant credit restrictions forcing small and several self-employed builders out of business

If just 0.01% are terrorists and some others that way inclined, that’s enough based on volume alone, thus increasing security issues.

The UK shortages of housing, schools and healthcare are due to the government policy of 'austerity', which means 'not buying things that are needed because of an insane insistence on a fictional "balanced budget"'.

UK population has grown far faster in the past, without such 'problems' emerging; they are directly caused by the economic ignorance of the government, and would exist with or without immigration.

Immigrants are an excellent scapegoat though.

If we are short of houses we should consider our own citizens first. We don't need to enrich the illegal shippers, human traffickers, illegal landlords (Garden sheds £1,000 pm) underground sweatshops and human slavery which all of which flourish as a result of anyone is legal.

Governments, not migrants are to blame.

 

[bilby]

There s no misapplication of maths,. The main reason against mass immigration is the acute shortage of housing schools and healthcare which cannot keep up. Of course mass migration creates more jobs like Polish midwives to pull out the babies, translators as less English is spoken and so forth. Exacerbating this ‘Austerity’ meant credit restrictions forcing small and several self-employed builders out of business

If just 0.01% are terrorists and some others that way inclined, that’s enough based on volume alone, thus increasing security issues.

The UK shortages of housing, schools and healthcare are due to the government policy of 'austerity', which means 'not buying things that are needed because of an insane insistence on a fictional "balanced budget"'.

UK population has grown far faster in the past, without such 'problems' emerging; they are directly caused by the economic ignorance of the government, and would exist with or without immigration.

Immigrants are an excellent scapegoat though.

If we are short of houses we should consider our own citizens first.

Why?

Why is a total stranger born in Halifax more important to you than a total stranger born in Hyderabad?

What makes a person from Aviemore more worthy than one born in Aleppo?

Why not 'If we are short of houses, we should build more houses, so that nobody has to go without'?

 

[whichphilosophy]

If we are short of houses we should consider our own citizens first.

Why?

Why is a total stranger born in Halifax more important to you than a total stranger born in Hyderabad?

What makes a person from Aviemore more worthy than one born in Aleppo?

Why not 'If we are short of houses, we should build more houses, so that nobody has to go without'?

The corrupt Indian government should build for it's own citizens. It's cheaper to resettle Iraqis in other parts of Iraq. British tax payers should not foot the bill.

 

[LordKiran]

If we are short of houses we should consider our own citizens first.

Why?

Why is a total stranger born in Halifax more important to you than a total stranger born in Hyderabad?

What makes a person from Aviemore more worthy than one born in Aleppo?

Why not 'If we are short of houses, we should build more houses, so that nobody has to go without'?

The corrupt Indian government should build for it's own citizens. It's cheaper to resettle Iraqis in other parts of Iraq. British tax payers should not foot the bill.

They haven't been, that's why there's a shortage.

 

[bilby]

If we are short of houses we should consider our own citizens first.

Why?

Why is a total stranger born in Halifax more important to you than a total stranger born in Hyderabad?

What makes a person from Aviemore more worthy than one born in Aleppo?

Why not 'If we are short of houses, we should build more houses, so that nobody has to go without'?

The corrupt Indian government should build for it's own citizens. It's cheaper to resettle Iraqis in other parts of Iraq. British tax payers should not foot the bill.

If you are under the impression that Aleppo is in Iraq, then perhaps you are unqualified to have a worthwhile opinion on any of this.

 

[angelo]

As I keep saying we're 2 million homes short in the UK and migrants still pour in. Where can we put the buggers?

This is in no way a reply to what bilby said, but how about this: Number of empty homes in the UK reaches 20-year high in 2017

Is that so! Quick. Let in another million muzzies!

 

[Jokodo]

As I keep saying we're 2 million homes short in the UK and migrants still pour in. Where can we put the buggers?

This is in no way a reply to what bilby said, but how about this: Number of empty homes in the UK reaches 20-year high in 2017

Is that so! Quick. Let in another million muzzies!

You still haven't proven you're not a career criminal!

 

[Jokodo]

There s no misapplication of maths,. The main reason against mass immigration is the acute shortage of housing schools and healthcare which cannot keep up. Of course mass migration creates more jobs like Polish midwives to pull out the babies, translators as less English is spoken and so forth. Exacerbating this ‘Austerity’ meant credit restrictions forcing small and several self-employed builders out of business

If just 0.01% are terrorists and some others that way inclined, that’s enough based on volume alone, thus increasing security issues.

Try again when sober.

Housing and security issues are sober ones.

Flinging around a hand-ful of unrelated issues, half of which you seem to poorly understand, but without lingering long enough on any single one for us to really tell what you even think the issue is - and all attributing them to one and the same root cause that may or may not be a contributing factor for some? Not a sober reaction to a reality where each of these issues has a different solution and different causes.

Oh, and a housing shortage that forces builders out of business?

 

[whichphilosophy]

The corrupt Indian government should build for it's own citizens. It's cheaper to resettle Iraqis in other parts of Iraq. British tax payers should not foot the bill.

If you are under the impression that Aleppo is in Iraq, then perhaps you are unqualified to have a worthwhile opinion on any of this.

There are plenty of safe areas in Iraq. I have a friend working there. We can take in a certain amount in the U.K.

As for Syria, while still a war zone it's cheaper to rehouse them in safe areas and other Arab states. The oil rich ones can still do more. Britain is Trillions in debt so no need to add more taxes.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Housing and security issues are sober ones.

Flinging around a hand-ful of unrelated issues, half of which you seem to poorly understand, but without lingering long enough on any single one for us to really tell what you even think the issue is - and all attributing them to one and the same root cause that may or may not be a contributing factor for some? Not a sober reaction to a reality where each of these issues has a different solution and different causes.

Oh, and a housing shortage that forces builders out of business?

Your reply is too nonspecific to give a specific reply and solutions. Nor did I suggest the housing shortage forced builders out of business. I did say;

Exacerbating this ‘Austerity’ meant credit restrictions forcing small and several self-employed builders out of business

Do want me to explain the last point?

 

[whichphilosophy]

The corrupt Indian government should build for it's own citizens. It's cheaper to resettle Iraqis in other parts of Iraq. British tax payers should not foot the bill.

They haven't been, that's why there's a shortage.

It's India's problem not the UK taxpayer.

 

[Jokodo]

Housing and security issues are sober ones.

Flinging around a hand-ful of unrelated issues, half of which you seem to poorly understand, but without lingering long enough on any single one for us to really tell what you even think the issue is - and all attributing them to one and the same root cause that may or may not be a contributing factor for some? Not a sober reaction to a reality where each of these issues has a different solution and different causes.

Oh, and a housing shortage that forces builders out of business?

Your reply is too nonspecific to give a specific reply and solutions. Nor did I suggest the housing shortage forced builders out of business. I did say;

Exacerbating this ‘Austerity’ meant credit restrictions forcing small and several self-employed builders out of business

Do want me to explain the last point?

It still doesn't make any sense. Austerity is not the fault of immigrants, it's the fault of the tory government. Credit restrictions are neither here nor there, but it should be pretty obvious that, all else equal, a more pressing housing shortage will help builders survive even in difficult economic times because individuals and councils will spend a greater share of their limited business on building projects.

But yeah, go ahead and explain your point. Should be funny to watch.

 

[angelo]

Your reply is too nonspecific to give a specific reply and solutions. Nor did I suggest the housing shortage forced builders out of business. I did say;

Exacerbating this ‘Austerity’ meant credit restrictions forcing small and several self-employed builders out of business

Do want me to explain the last point?

It still doesn't make any sense. Austerity is not the fault of immigrants, it's the fault of the tory government. Credit restrictions are neither here nor there, but it should be pretty obvious that, all else equal, a more pressing housing shortage will help builders survive even in difficult economic times because individuals and councils will spend a greater share of their limited business on building projects.

But yeah, go ahead and explain your point. Should be funny to watch.

Electing the far left loony Jeremy Corbyn will solve all the problems? Britain will become a socialist paradise like no other.

 

[Jokodo]

Your reply is too nonspecific to give a specific reply and solutions. Nor did I suggest the housing shortage forced builders out of business. I did say;

Exacerbating this ‘Austerity’ meant credit restrictions forcing small and several self-employed builders out of business

Do want me to explain the last point?

It still doesn't make any sense. Austerity is not the fault of immigrants, it's the fault of the tory government. Credit restrictions are neither here nor there, but it should be pretty obvious that, all else equal, a more pressing housing shortage will help builders survive even in difficult economic times because individuals and councils will spend a greater share of their limited business on building projects.

But yeah, go ahead and explain your point. Should be funny to watch.

Electing the far left loony Jeremy Corbyn will solve all the problems? Britain will become a socialist paradise like no other.

Why should we listen to a known career criminal?

 

[LordKiran]

The corrupt Indian government should build for it's own citizens. It's cheaper to resettle Iraqis in other parts of Iraq. British tax payers should not foot the bill.

They haven't been, that's why there's a shortage.

It's India's problem not the UK taxpayer.

Its whoever's problem they happen to live with. Having people housed and cared for is preferable to being mugged by a crazy homeless man on the way back to your car. The social cost to our society from houselessness, hunger, and unemployment go beyond the dollar amount we give in aid.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Your reply is too nonspecific to give a specific reply and solutions. Nor did I suggest the housing shortage forced builders out of business. I did say;

Exacerbating this ‘Austerity’ meant credit restrictions forcing small and several self-employed builders out of business

Do want me to explain the last point?

It still doesn't make any sense. Austerity is not the fault of immigrants, it's the fault of the tory government. Credit restrictions are neither here nor there, but it should be pretty obvious that, all else equal, a more pressing housing shortage will help builders survive even in difficult economic times because individuals and councils will spend a greater share of their limited business on building projects.

But yeah, go ahead and explain your point. Should be funny to watch.

Of course austerity is the fault of the Tory government and not the immigrants. Further, small builders relied on finance before each construction project now they can’t this so many went out of business. If they could then the 300,000 houses per year may have been tenable. So without austerity you would be right.

We are about 2 million houses short as a result of a lack of construction over decades.
With a net of 200,000 to 300,000 arriving in the UK, wild promises by Tory and Labour to construct 300,000 houses per year would hardly dent the problem.
The UK debt has reportedly passed £1 trillion and supposedly growing growing at a rate of £5,170 per second! You may find other estimates.

UK National Debt Surpassed £1 Trillion

http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

Mainstream media headlines today are focused on Britain's record national debt, which just surpassed £1 trillion, a figure that can only exponentially increase unless the entire mechanism of Government finance is overhauled. The truth however is much worse, factoring in all liabilities including state and public sector pensions, the real national debt is closer to £4.8 trillion….

The Guardian report is here
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/18/uk-debt-crisis-credit-cards-car-loans

Britain needs to reduce its debts and flow of immigration. At the same time it needs to build more than 300,000 homes per year
A reduction in population growth would be beneficial. Given the ineptitude of May it's a pipe dream.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...es/articles/overviewoftheukpopulation/mar2017

 

[whichphilosophy]

It's India's problem not the UK taxpayer.

Its whoever's problem they happen to live with. Having people housed and cared for is preferable to being mugged by a crazy homeless man on the way back to your car. The social cost to our society from houselessness, hunger, and unemployment go beyond the dollar amount we give in aid.

It'll cost less to the UK if the homeless are helped in their own countries.

 

[Jokodo]

Your reply is too nonspecific to give a specific reply and solutions. Nor did I suggest the housing shortage forced builders out of business. I did say;

Exacerbating this ‘Austerity’ meant credit restrictions forcing small and several self-employed builders out of business

Do want me to explain the last point?

It still doesn't make any sense. Austerity is not the fault of immigrants, it's the fault of the tory government. Credit restrictions are neither here nor there, but it should be pretty obvious that, all else equal, a more pressing housing shortage will help builders survive even in difficult economic times because individuals and councils will spend a greater share of their limited business on building projects.

But yeah, go ahead and explain your point. Should be funny to watch.

Of course austerity is the fault of the Tory government and not the immigrants. Further, small builders relied on finance before each construction project now they can’t this so many went out of business. If they could then the 300,000 houses per year may have been tenable. So without austerity you would be right.

We are about 2 million houses short as a result of a lack of construction over decades.
With a net of 200,000 to 300,000 arriving in the UK, wild promises by Tory and Labour to construct 300,000 houses per year would hardly dent the problem.
The UK debt has reportedly passed £1 trillion and supposedly growing growing at a rate of £5,170 per second! You may find other estimates.

UK National Debt Surpassed £1 Trillion

http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

Mainstream media headlines today are focused on Britain's record national debt, which just surpassed £1 trillion, a figure that can only exponentially increase unless the entire mechanism of Government finance is overhauled. The truth however is much worse, factoring in all liabilities including state and public sector pensions, the real national debt is closer to £4.8 trillion….

The Guardian report is here
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/18/uk-debt-crisis-credit-cards-car-loans

Britain needs to reduce its debts and flow of immigration. At the same time it needs to build more than 300,000 homes per year
A reduction in population growth would be beneficial. Given the ineptitude of May it's a pipe dream.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...es/articles/overviewoftheukpopulation/mar2017

How is any of this related to the topic of the thread? And how does it change the fact that all else equal, i.e. with the same level of austerity etc., builders have a better chance of surviving when the need for new housing is more pressing?

 

[LordKiran]

It's India's problem not the UK taxpayer.

Its whoever's problem they happen to live with. Having people housed and cared for is preferable to being mugged by a crazy homeless man on the way back to your car. The social cost to our society from houselessness, hunger, and unemployment go beyond the dollar amount we give in aid.

It'll cost less to the UK if the homeless are helped in their own countries.

In the long run they'll lose out. Immigrants accepted and put into a situation where they can build wealth of their own are a net boon to a nation. Simply having more people makes a nation greater. More people means more taxes, and business owners and investors, more scientists and engineers and mathematicians, more philosophers and thinkers and artists. More people means more soldiers, more grunts, navy and airmen, more laborors and builders and construction workers, more teachers and surgeons. People are the source of all power in our world. Small growing pains here and there are worth the gain, especially when our natural rivals are already outpacing us in several crucial areas.