Europe submits voluntarily

[LordKiran]

The supporters of a borderless and re-distribution of wealth world such as many here are, would in reality bring equality to all. Everyone would live in shit holes except for some elites of course!

People who do not understand their opponent's argument often do not understand their own.

 

[angelo]

The supporters of a borderless and re-distribution of wealth world such as many here are, would in reality bring equality to all. Everyone would live in shit holes except for some elites of course!

People who do not understand their opponent's argument often do not understand their own.

Says a supporter of Che Guvera.

 

[LordKiran]

The supporters of a borderless and re-distribution of wealth world such as many here are, would in reality bring equality to all. Everyone would live in shit holes except for some elites of course!

People who do not understand their opponent's argument often do not understand their own.

Says a supporter of Che Guvera.

Eh? What are you on about now? How is that even a retort to my statement?

Did you just not have anything better to throw out so after a few nervous spasms you threw this garbage up onto the page?

 

[angelo]

Says a supporter of Che Guvera.

Eh? What are you on about now? How is that even a retort to my statement?

Did you just not have anything better to throw out so after a few nervous spasms you threw this garbage up onto the page?

My point is that leftists have little credibility because they refuse to see or ignore reality as it is.

 

[bilby]

Says a supporter of Che Guvera.

Eh? What are you on about now? How is that even a retort to my statement?

Did you just not have anything better to throw out so after a few nervous spasms you threw this garbage up onto the page?

My point is that leftists have little credibility because they refuse to see or ignore reality as it is.

For fuck's sake, are you going to pay for all these irony meters? They don't grow on trees you know.

 

[angelo]

My point is that leftists have little credibility because they refuse to see or ignore reality as it is.

For fuck's sake, are you going to pay for all these irony meters? They don't grow on trees you know.

Neither does money to fund lefties ideals!

 

[LordKiran]

Says a supporter of Che Guvera.

Eh? What are you on about now? How is that even a retort to my statement?

Did you just not have anything better to throw out so after a few nervous spasms you threw this garbage up onto the page?

My point is that leftists have little credibility because they refuse to see or ignore reality as it is.

See I know that's bullshit because you could have just said that instead.

"You have little credibility because you ignore reality as it is."

By the way "Refuse to see" and "Ignore" in the context of your sentence mean the same thing. Be concise when peddling BS, it makes it easier to read.

 

[Derec]

Unfortunately, Europe is submitting voluntarily because of efforts of people who think like this woman:

Migrants are paying the price of Mariano Rajoy’s ‘state of emergency’

Nobody really knows what is going on in Ceuta and Melilla. And, sadly, not all that many people seem to care. A hundred migrant children currently live on the streets of Melilla – all unaccompanied – hoping to one day stow away on a boat to Europe. A few weeks ago a 17-year-old Moroccan boy who lost his footing while trying to get into a boat died alone in bed at a youth centre, following an emergency amputation.

The author thinks all those "migrant children" should be let in. But let's think about it. Sure, what happened to the 17 year old is tragic, but it is entirely his fault. He decided to cross into Spanish territory illegally. He chose to attempt to cross onto European mainland. And not because there is war in Morocco. No, he merely wanted to make (or more likely get through benefits) more money than he could earn at home. If people like him are let in, imagine how many will attempt the same crossing after him. But people like Lucila Alcaron are either oblivious, or do not care about the consequences of the open border policies they champion.

It seems some of the xenophobic anti-immigration discourse that characterises politics in other parts of Europe has reached Spain – a country without a far-right party.

According to the author (and many on the Left, including some posters here), everybody who is opposed to unrestricted mass migration from places like the Middle East or Africa is a "xenophobe" and "anti-immigration". As if there were only two immigration settings possible - either no immigration at all or a open the floodgates free-for-all.

Last November about 500 people, including at least 11 unaccompanied minors, arrived on 49 boats from Algeria and were imprisoned for more than six weeks in a jail that lacked basic amenities such as drinkable water. Most of the refugees were subsequently returned to Algeria in an administrative move of alarming speed, with just seven judges handling more than 500 individual cases in a few days.

And she finds a problem with this? That's better than just letting them in and giving them benefits.

Still, there is hope. There is growing resistance from local government and civil society. Madrid’s progressive mayor, Manuela Carmena, has led a public campaign against the detention of undocumented migrants and is working to make our capital a city that welcomes migrants. Ada Colau, the mayor of Barcelona, is going even further and has twice temporarily closed her city’s detention centre, citing administrative flaws. In Málaga, local authorities have permanently closed a detention centre.

Suicidal idiots, the lot of them! But when will the populace of these cities wake up and kick them out of office?

Fundamental rights that our society fought hard for following the Franco years need to be safeguarded.

Entering another country illegally is not a "fundamental right".


According to the European Court on human rights, it is a human right to enter another country illegally and these illegal aliens must not be sent back where they came from. That's how a culture dies. Not with a bang, but with a long series of suicidal decisions by the powers that be.

Another article about the 2nd Muslim invasion of Spain:
Spain says migrant who died in jail had 'instigated' riot

Spain's interior minister said Wednesday that an Algerian man found hanging in his cell at a jail controversially used as a migrant centre was one of several who started a riot the day before his death.
Mohamed Bouderbala, 36, was found dead on December 29th in the Archidona prison in southern Spain, a new jail temporarily used as a so-called CIE, a centre where migrants are held pending asylum claims after they arrive in Spain, which has since been vacated.

No war in Algeria. Hence, no refugee. Of course, all the economic migrants file bogus asylum claims because that protects them from deportation and lets them live on taxpayer expense.

They "threw themselves to the ground and started self-harming with plastic cutlery they had just used in the dining room," he told lawmakers.

LMAO!

That was precisely the situation from November 16 to 20, when close to 1,000 migrants from sub-Saharan Africa, Morocco and Algeria arrived in Spain on rickety boats, Zoido said.According to the International Organization for Migration, migrant arrivals by sea to Spain more than doubled in 2017 on the previous year, with at least 21,600 people coming to shore. 223 people died on the way.

Not refugees, but economic migrants. Why should that be tolerated? Especially when Spain has an unemployment rate of 16.7% as it is.

Zoido said that of the 577 Algerian migrants who were held in the prison, 486 were sent back to their country.

Good! But why not the other 91? Still, Spain seems to be more proactive about deporting illegals than countries like Germany or Sweden. Or even Italy, where 600,000 illegals currently live. I wonder how much that EU court decision against sending illegal migrants back will affect things though.

 

[Derec]

Speaking of Italy, here is an article about what is going on in that country, which has an unemployment rate of 11% and doesn't need economic migrants.
Italy's homeless, jobless migrants shunned by politicians

The plight of the hundreds of thousands of migrants struggling to build a life in Italy is rarely discussed by most political parties, even though immigration is one of the hottest issues ahead of national elections on March 4.
Keen to harness a growing backlash against more than 600,000 migrants who have landed on Italian shores in the past four years, the parties are instead promising tough measures such as mass deportations or halting immigration altogether.
With poor Italians also struggling to find housing and jobs in an anemic economy, offering support to migrants such as those in the Olympic village is not considered a vote winner.

600k illegal migrants and more than 100k landed in Italy just last year. Of course, many of the arrivals seek more generous benefits in countries like France, Germany and Sweden, and do not stay in Italy.

"This place is the epitome of Italy's failure to integrate," said Nicolo' Vasile, a 31-year-old engineer from Sicily who spends an average of 40 hours a week helping residents, including 40 families and 50 children, with maintenance, paperwork and other tasks.

"There is no institutional path to integration. It simply doesn't exist, unlike elsewhere in Europe," said Vasile, one of 20 local volunteers, from students to pensioners to professors, who help those stuck in the Turin complex.

1. If they don't work anyway they have nothing but time one their hands. Why aren't they doing maintenance and "other tasks" for themselves and each other?
2. The illegal migrants should be sent back, not integrated, as that encourages them to stay permanently.

The ruling center-left Democratic Party (PD) tried to take the sting out of the migration debate last year by striking deals with the Tripoli government and coast guard aimed at preventing migrants from boarding boats for Europe.

As a result, the number of migrants arriving in Italy by sea fell by a third last year to 119,000, but this has failed to quell the fears of ordinary Italians.

Of course, 119k in a single year is still a huge number.

Greece, another country on the immigration frontline, offers even less than Italy, but those who reach European Union countries such as Germany and Sweden get more support because refugee status gives them access to robust welfare systems.
While Italy's migrant budget was 4.3 billion euros ($5.3 billion) last year, Germany's federal government spent 13.6 billion euros to accommodate and process asylum seekers, two years after more than a million refugees crossed its borders.Germany's 16 state governments spent billions more. In 2016, the states spent about 23 billion euros though exact figures for last year are not yet available.

Mass migration is very expensive.

Jamal Adam, 31, from the Darfur region of Sudan arrived in Italy in 2011. Unable to find a job he went to Germany, but returned because the EU asylum rules prevented him from getting legal papers in any country other than Italy.
"In Germany, they give you money and a place to stay and you rest easy," he said in the Olympic village in Turin as daily prayers from Mecca echoed out of a TV. "Here you get nothing."

Free money and "resting easy" was the goal of the whole exercise. That's why all these migrants want to make it to a country like Germany or Sweden, because they can get a lot of taxpayer-financed benefits there. Hence the slogan, "we want Germany".

Note also that Jamal watches Islamic prayer broadcasts on TV. Italian TV is playing prayers from Mecca on a daily basis now?

Unsatisfied with the level of free services provided for them in Italy, the migrants are invading France through the Alps, like Hannibal invaded Rome, only sans elephants.
Migrants risk death crossing Alps to reach France

It took Abdullhai almost three years to get from his home in Guinea to a rocky, snow-covered Alpine mountain pass in the dead of winter, for what he hopes will be the final stage of his journey into France.

No war in Guinea either.

The terrain is steep and dangerous and he and a group of five other migrants face risks ranging from losing their footing on steep drops, being struck by falling rocks or succumbing to the -9C (15°F) temperatures in clothing ill-suited to the terrain.Abdullhai, 38, is one of hundreds of migrants who over the last year have attempted to cross from Italy into France through high mountain passes, in a bid to evade increased border security put in place at easier crossing points. His group crossed into France in December.

Should've stayed home then. I hope Macron deports the lot of them.

In Guinea, he left behind his wife and three children, including a two-year old son whom he has never seen.
“Our life in Guinea is not good,” said Abdullhai, 38, who like his friends asked that his last name not be published in this story.“There is no work there and no future for my children. Here in Europe we can have a future. We can find work and live a life with some dignity. This is worth a try for me.”

He confirms himself that he is an economic migrant. No word about fleeing violence, or being persecuted or anything of the sort, he only talks about economic prospects. Of course, if he gets established in France, he'll seek to move his entire family there, as will others, multiplying the total number of migrants several times over. The 119k who landed in Italy last year mostly also have families they will seek to bring to Europe too.

“I was imprisoned and tortured in Libya for many months. I was forced to work for free. Just look at my scars,” said Kamarra, 28, from Guinea, lifting his shirt and pulling down his trousers at the side to show marks on his body and hip.

And because of that he should be allowed to immigrate into Europe? No. He should be sent home to Guinea.

 

[angelo]

It's encouraging what's happening in Austria, Poland and the Check republic re illegal immigrants. Perhaps it's a lesson and it's a start of a Western European wake up call.

 

[bilby]

It's encouraging what's happening in Austria, Poland and the Check republic re illegal immigrants. Perhaps it's a lesson and it's a start of a Western European wake up call.

I would have more faith in your position if you at least knew how to spell the names of the countries you talk so confidently about.

Although given your track record with regard to testable claims in this thread, not much more.

When every claim by you that is testable is demonstrably wrong, it would be foolhardy to assume that you might be right about those things that are not readily testable.

 

[Derec]

I would have more faith in your position if you at least knew how to spell the names of the countries you talk so confidently about.

In his defense, Czech Republic/Czechia is a toughie. It's the "cz" combination, which is quite unusual.
And even the Czechs are never quite satisfied with the name of their country.

When every claim by you that is testable is demonstrably wrong,

Like what?
It is demonstrably right that in many countries, for example Austria, far right parties are resurgent because of utter failure of mainstream parties to address or even properly acknowledge the dangers of mass migration and islamization. In the case of left-wing parties, they even cheer the development on.

And that your entire post consist on harping on a misspelling and does not address any of the actual claims of his post shows just how out of ideas your (i.e. pro mass migration) side is.

Edited to add: This thread has officially entered the Page of the Beast! Not many threads reach this milepost.

 

[TSwizzle]

They've had more than two years to come up with an idea and failed.

 

[Hermit]

According to the European Court on human rights, it is a human right to enter another country illegally and these illegal aliens must not be sent back where they came from.

You'll need to provide a link for that extraordinary assertion. Among the links that have been offered so far there is nothing suggesting it to be true.

 

[bilby]

 

[Jokodo]

I would have more faith in your position if you at least knew how to spell the names of the countries you talk so confidently about.

In his defense, Czech Republic/Czechia is a toughie. It's the "cz" combination, which is quite unusual.
And even the Czechs are never quite satisfied with the name of their country.

When every claim by you that is testable is demonstrably wrong,

Like what?

Like literally everything he's written that contains a factual claim.

It is demonstrably right that in many countries, for example Austria, far right parties are resurgent because of utter failure of mainstream parties to address or even properly acknowledge the dangers of mass migration and islamization. In the case of left-wing parties, they even cheer the development on.

It is demonstrably right that in many countries, for example Austria, far right parties are resurgent. Anything you write beyond that is already conjecture. In the case of Austria, which happens to be where I live, I'd be willing to argue that right wing parties are resurgent because mainstream parties have implicitly been validating their positions with their actions instead of arguing why they're wrong. Also, the ÖVP, the senior partner in our new coalition, is a mainstream party if ever there was one - it's been continuously part of government in different constellations for 31 years! And since the formation of the new government, the SPÖ, now in opposition, which used to be a social democrat party and still is in name, has on multiple occasions criticized the new government for being too lax on immigration (so much for "cheering on")!

And that your entire post consist on harping on a misspelling and does not address any of the actual claims of his post shows just how out of ideas your (i.e. pro mass migration) side is.

What actual claim?

 

[whichphilosophy]

View attachment 14203

To some immigration is to do with race but in reality it's about overcrowding.

Take Ealing Council. At first it looked quite noble

https://www.ealing.gov.uk/news/article/1367/support_for_refugees

Ealing has a history of helping refugees and was one of the first local authorities in the country to come forward to offer to assist.
On Thursday, 10 September the council’s leader attended the first meeting with the government, GLA and other boroughs to discuss London's response to the crisis.

Councillor Julian Bell, leader of Ealing Council said: “We will be doing everything that we can locally to support refugees in the current crisis. We will be working closely with the government on proposals and are waiting for further information on what funding they will be making available to support us to accommodate refugees in the borough.”


Now take JC British mixed race, who was diagnosed with Motor Neuron Disease 2 months ago. He has one daughter and one son. He was refused Council housing but told he could be transferred to another part of the UK instead.

The housing officers told him Ealing is overcrowded.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34567209
Syria refugees to cost 'up to £23k each' in first year in UK
19 October 2015

It's cheaper to relocate refugees within safe areas of their own country.

 

[4321lynx]

It's encouraging what's happening in Austria, Poland and the Check republic re illegal immigrants. Perhaps it's a lesson and it's a start of a Western European wake up call.

Don't be too optimistic. The people concerned are xenophobes and are likely to turn against one another sooner or later. They are also all antisemitic to a varying degree. And I am talking about the governing parties, not the out and out crazies of the various ultra-right parties in those countries.

What unites them temporarily? Since the late 1930's they have been taking orders first from the Germans (these days political correctness calls those "Nazis"), then from the Russians (PC-named the "Soviets"). Then in their belated freedom from communist dictatorships and acceptance in the EU, finally after the collapse of Russian rule in Europe, they found that as well as the great financial advantages to them, came the need to accept EU rules. These in the case of the recent wave of Muslim immigrants were in effect once again German rules, a "Merkel diktat", when she invited a flood of Muslim immigrants to Germany, with the idea of applying EU rules to spread the flood to the whole of the EU. She herself has now admitted that it was a mistake. But by that time the right wing in Eastern Europe had its great cause of "saving European civilisation".

Add to this the historical fact that for six or seven centuries these same countries, when not fighting among themselves, had been fighting Turkish invasions, winning at times and at times losing, being occupied by or incorporated in the Turkish Empire, all reflected in the teaching of history, and in the literatures of the countries concerned. And add the general knowledge in the East of how "harmonious" has been the result of the admixture and/or separation of the Xtian and Muslim countries in the Balkans over the centuries right up to the present, and the knowledge that "the West" (US, UK, France, Germany north of Austria, Italy, Scandinavia, etc) does not give a damn of what happens to Eastern Europe as long as it does not impact too much on the West itself. Chamberlain's idea of "a far-away people of whom we know nothing" is alive and well and now applies not just to the Czechs but to the whole of East/Central Europe, and the right-wing parties there are utilising that perception to the full.

 

[Hermit]

a "Merkel diktat", when she invited a flood of Muslim immigrants to Germany, with the idea of applying EU rules to spread the flood to the whole of the EU. She herself has now admitted that it was a mistake.

Merkel did no such thing.

At a post-election press conference on Monday, Ms Merkel denied that it had been a mistake to offer such a warm welcome to refugees — a gesture that eventually helped attract more than 1m migrants to the country. She argued that the decision had been “absolutely right” but that it had come after years of ineffective responses to the continent’s migration challenges, with Germany and the EU leaving the Mediterranean countries to shoulder the burden.
(Link)

The mistake Merkel did admit to was that the refugee crisis was badly managed because Germany ignored it for too long, letting Spain and other EU border countries deal with the refugees on their own.

If I were able to, I would turn back time by many, many years, so that I could have prepared the whole government and the authorities for the situation which hit us out of the blue in the late summer of 2015. (Link)

She is quite determined to maintain Germany's standing refugee policy.

I lived behind a fence for too long for me to now wish for those times to return. (Link)

 

[4321lynx]

Merkel did no such thing.

The mistake Merkel did admit to was that the refugee crisis was badly managed because Germany ignored it for too long, letting Spain and other EU border countries deal with the refugees on their own.

If I were able to, I would turn back time by many, many years, so that I could have prepared the whole government and the authorities for the situation which hit us out of the blue in the late summer of 2015. (Link)

She is quite determined to maintain Germany's standing refugee policy.

I lived behind a fence for too long for me to now wish for those times to return. (Link)

My bad. Thanks for the correction. Difficult to keep up with these other "far-away people, of whom I know too much."