DrZoidberg
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Hitler, is it you?
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Hitler, is it you?
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Dumb. That site might as well have been writing that Sauron is in power in Sweden. It would have been about as accurate. Fun how a far right website is crying about being called a far right website. Why would they have a problem with that, of all people? Wouldn't they be proud about that?
angelo
Deleted
Whatever you think of the site, it's spot on. By 2030 Sweden's moslem population is tipped to blow out to well over 10% and approaching 50% by the turn of the century by many estimates.
angelo
Deleted
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Ehe... out of 800 000 Swedes who come from a Muslim background only 200 000 are practicing Muslims. The rest, presumably drink alcohol, eat pork, fornicate and do all the rest of it. What's the problem here? I have a quite a big group of Iranian friends in Stockholm. All of them are atheist. Most of them identify as Muslim.
This proves exactly the opposite of what you are worried about. Sweden is aparently the country where Islam emigrates to and then dies. Leaving behind an atheistic Arab husk.
And on a related note... I like the mosques in Sweden. They add a bit of colour and diversity. Swedish traditional Christianity is exceedingly drab and boring. I can't see the problem here?
angelo
Deleted
Excuse me, but how can an atheist be a muslim at the same time! He/she is either one or the other! You like the mosques do you? Just as well because your descendants won't see any other place of worship that exists today, not just in Sweden, but all other high intake of muslim immigration western European nations, that's if they don't collapse under the burden of welfare payments first!
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/08/...overnment-calls-for-even-more-muslim-migrants
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Atheist Muslims is quite common. We call them "cultural Moslems". They identify as Muslim, do some of the rituals but don't believe in God.
A problem with Islam is that if you lose your faith in Islam other Muslims are supposed to kill you, (according to the Quran). While it's today mostly an empty threat, it means that in Islam there's a tradition of atheist Muslims to shut up about it. They'll go through the motions without caring about it. It's extremely common in Scandinavia, the UK and Germany. It makes census numbers of how many "Muslims" are actually Muslims unreliable.
In the Middle-East its also common to view religion as something you're born into ONLY. So your identity is carved in stone regardless of what you do or believe. This is a heritage from the Roman empire, that has stuck around. Catholicism is a lot like this as well. So it makes it a bit complicated to translate into Christian Lutheran vernacular.
Jihadwatch is complete nonsense. So why bother even refuting that garbage?
angelo
Deleted
Do you have any proof that any report in JihadWatch is not factual?
DrZoidberg
Contributor
1) The high unemployment rate of Malmö has to do with the combination of closing down the city's two main industries in 1990, while simultaneously placing most of the Bosnian refugees from the ex-Yugoslav war there. It created a whole bunch of problems. None of who were the immigrants fault. It was down to incompetent politicians making stupid decisions.
But that said, that city used to really be a dump. 20 years ago it was an absolute shit-hole. The last 10 years has been a dramatic rise (thanks to the influx of IT jobs, and a closer integration with Copenhagen). The city is not that bad now. Just five years ago you could buy a decent property for cheap in the city. Today the prices are nearing that of other major cities. I predict that in ten years Malmö will on par with Stockholm or Gothemburg. That's certainly the trend.
And this is coming from a person who hates that city. I lived there for a year. Worst year of my life. It's not the immigration of the crime I didn't like. I couldn't stand the provincial attitude. It's got the horrendous attitude of country-folk while having none of the beauty. It's an ugly and annoying city to be in.
So basically, whoever wrote that article knows nothing about the context, or knows it and doesn't care. It's a city that is rapidly getting more prosperous and a nicer place to live.
2) The current high unemployment rate of Malmö is a bit of a fudge. But not an outrageous lie. Most refugees were placed in Trelleborg, which is close to Malmö. They're part of the same region as Malmö. I'm guessing they just looked up the statistics of Skåne and used that to represent only the city. So why aren't the refugees working?
3) In Sweden it's illegal for refugees to work. So them being out of a job is certainly not the fault of the refugees. There's a system where they can get special permits to get to work anyway. But the system is slow and on purpose set up to make it practically impossible. Still 2% of them manage to nag themselves to getting these special work permits. I know people who's job it is to help refugees with integrating into Swedish society. This is one of their major headaches.
The article makes no effort in explaining this. To me it looks like they're making it out as if the refugees are able to take jobs like normal Swedish citizens, and just being lazy or something. I'd call that a lie
4) Open borders is a lie. Sweden is bound by the UN refugee charter to take in refugees. Everybody except North Korea and Saudi Arabia (and I'm sure a couple of others I've forgotten about) is bound by that. If a country wants to keep being part of the civilised world they need to honour this UN charter.
5) "face of their nation’s demise"... lol. Sweden is stil a very prosperous, well run, low crime and low corruption country. And doing better and better. That's the reality here. I see zero evidence of this trend changing. I have quite a lot of friends living in Malmö, and they keep the Swedish tradition of getting black out drunk on weekends and behaving as if bullet proof. Men and women. They all assume they'll be able to stagger home at night unmolested... and they are. It's a problem in Sweden where young Swedish women go abroad on vacation and they don't understand that the world out there isn't safe for young blonde women drunk at night. Because they seem to always be safe in Sweden... all over Sweden. Even in the so called no-go zones (that don't exist).
6) "citizens are now burdened with a form of the jizya (the tax that non-Muslims must pay as a sign of their subjugation to the Muslims)." I don't know what this means. Is it a metaphor for something? There's certainly nothing in the tax code about this. It's a bizarre statement to make.
Jihadwatch is pure clickbait. They sell ads on their site. That's what they care about. Not the truth
angelo
Deleted
So where exactly is the untruth of that story, or any other story as reported in Jihadwatch, or any other critical report about " The religion of peace?" Most islamic conclaves in Europe, for example like Birmingham in the UK have sometimes more than 20% muslim unemployment.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
The untruth is that it lies about the context, and fails to explain why the context invalidates all the conclusions of the article. The fact that it makes the conclusions it does means that they're using a false context.
If you place a bunch of people in one place and forbid them from working... it's a bit rich to then complain about the high unemployment rate of that region.
angelo
Deleted
This is Australia where no such restrictions about finding a job exists as does in one or two countries in Europe. And a little dated, so up to date figures could be much worse.
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/v...e/news-story/719c039483fea7b395e169055670516b
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/v...e/news-story/719c039483fea7b395e169055670516b
DrZoidberg
Contributor
It only lists other nationalities and religion. It doesn't list level of education or initial wealth. It makes a big difference if somebody is an economic migrant or refugee. Being an economic migrant to Australia requires a good education and money. While bring a refugee doesn't.
You see the problem with that article and why none of those numbers are relevant?
A good statistic is the one on Somalian refugees to USA is one of the most successful refugees to USA while the same group are among the worst integrated in Sweden. All Muslims. The reason? All the educated Somalis and
Somalis with wealth went to USA. While all the poor and uneducated went to Sweden. It's almost like religion was irrelevant for their success or failure
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Just to hammer home the point, this is a chart of housing cost developments in Malmö. From before, during and after the refugee peak of 2015.
https://www.maklarstatistik.se/omrade/riket/skane-lan/malmo/#/bostadsratter/48m
As you can see the value of housing has rising dramatically. It's a 30% rise. So that's people thinking Malmö is a 30% better city to live in now than before. Malmö is increasingly becoming one of the most popular cities in Sweden to move to. Right now its on third place in the whole country. Soon it will pass Gothemburg.
The refugees are not part of this statistic, because they live in camps. Things like old schools, churches and scout camps converted to temporary housing outside the city centre.
What this shows is that the "crisis" in Malmö, lawlessness and "no go zones" are pure fantasy. I lived in the city 2016 to 2017. So peak "crisis". I didn't see any of it. I several times strolled through Rosengård, the most notorious of the no go zones, alone at night. Never saw a hint of trouble. The streets were as orderly and clean as anywhere else in Sweden. I've been to cities around the world with high crime rates. I know how that looks like. This ain't it. In Malmö you never have to be careful about what you do and where you go. People are going to leave you alone. The only people criminals shoot there are other criminals. The rest of us, they leave the fuck alone.
The "demise of Sweden" isn't happening. The opposite is happening. Sweden is doing great atm.
https://www.maklarstatistik.se/omrade/riket/skane-lan/malmo/#/bostadsratter/48m
As you can see the value of housing has rising dramatically. It's a 30% rise. So that's people thinking Malmö is a 30% better city to live in now than before. Malmö is increasingly becoming one of the most popular cities in Sweden to move to. Right now its on third place in the whole country. Soon it will pass Gothemburg.
The refugees are not part of this statistic, because they live in camps. Things like old schools, churches and scout camps converted to temporary housing outside the city centre.
What this shows is that the "crisis" in Malmö, lawlessness and "no go zones" are pure fantasy. I lived in the city 2016 to 2017. So peak "crisis". I didn't see any of it. I several times strolled through Rosengård, the most notorious of the no go zones, alone at night. Never saw a hint of trouble. The streets were as orderly and clean as anywhere else in Sweden. I've been to cities around the world with high crime rates. I know how that looks like. This ain't it. In Malmö you never have to be careful about what you do and where you go. People are going to leave you alone. The only people criminals shoot there are other criminals. The rest of us, they leave the fuck alone.
The "demise of Sweden" isn't happening. The opposite is happening. Sweden is doing great atm.
angelo
Deleted
Very few are genuine refugees. Real refugees seek refuge at the first place of call not country shop. Nearly all are " economic immigrants." Real refugees wait their turn to be settled in refugee camps, and arrive by air not through illegal people smugglers on rickety boats which charge them a small fortune which real refugees simple don't have.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Stop making shit up. In every refugee crisis the official channels are always overwhelmed. Refugees pouring out of a country is like a force of nature. They're going to leave the country no matter what. There's no stopping them. Typically people tend to wait as long as possible before leaving. This means that by the time they're on the move they're already desperate.
Typically, the more well educated and hard working refugees tend to move on fast. Only the weakest stay close to the crisis zone in the UNHR camps. Any refugee with the capacity will get out and move on. For various reasons it's bad to stay in those camps. It's dangerous and unhealthy. They're targets for all kind of shit. Women are routinely extorted into prostitution etc. Murder rates are high.
The more well educated and well adjusted a refugee is the further from the source they tend to get. Which explains why Sweden tends to have very little trouble with Middle-Eastern refugees.
Your view of being a refugee is a fantasy. It's based on a dream of how it should work, but doesn't.
Derec
Contributor
Except when they rape people.
Sweden rape: Most convicted attackers foreign-born, says TV
~5% of rape convictions are due to Afghans alone. I think ~0.5% of people in Sweden are Afghan. So Afghans are 10x more likely to rape than the average (which is already pulled by by all these rapefugees).
Or except when an Uzbeki (Borat warned us about them!) Muslim drives a truck into a crowd of people like in Stockholm last year.
Note also than when Europe opened their borders to Syrian refugees wide open, a lot of non-refugees started coming from all kinds of Muslim countries: Pakistan, Iran, Bangladesh, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria. These are not refugees but economic migrants.
The Berlin Christkindlmarkt truck terrorist was a Tunisian who came to Germany with the Merkel-endorsed migrant wave in 2015.
These people are still coming. Other than the Mediterranean route (using NGO ships as taxi service), these days the route through Bosnia is really popular.
Migrants in Bosnia complain of beatings by Croatian police
Well, they should go home to Pakistan!Reuters said:
No, they see somebody who is crossing their border illegally. Nothing racist about that, especially since Muslim is not a race and Arabs are considered white.
Otoh, maybe we should hire some of these Croats for the US-Mexico border. Like a border police foreign legion almost.
Only Syria here actually has an active war going, and even that seems to be in final stages.
That means that ~6,000 successfully crossed into EU illegally, since I doubt many (if any) turned around and went back home. That is bad news, as it is extremely difficult to deport fakefugees once they set foot in the promised lands of Germoney or Sweden.
In Sweden there is even this case of a young woman (a friend of yours? You seem to know a lot of these open borders lunatics) holding a plane hostage until a deportee is removed from the flight.
New details emerge about man ‘heroic’ student was trying to defend
Nice!news.com.au said:
Why didn't he apply for asylum in Bosnia? Or any of the countries he had to cross between Iran and Bosnia? Also, there is no war in Iran.Back to Reuters said:
Again, no war in Pakistan. And this is a rare specimen, a mass migrant who doesn't want to go to either Germany nor Sweden. Curious.
angelo
Deleted
How do you explain the fact that most of them are males? What cowards they must be leaving their many wives and children behind and making a run for it!
These people are the least desirable of all migrants any decent country should welcome. It's the reason why " Europe Submits Voluntarily." Why don't they stay behind to protect their loved ones and head to European nations with the best welfare state.
angelo
Deleted
Interesting.......................https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/08/...st-of-america-britain-russia-france-and-italy
DrZoidberg
Contributor
You've missed what's newsworthy about the event. What's interesting is that SVT, the state sponsored news source has so far not acknowledged anything outside the left liberal agenda. It's always been extremely left, and a source of annoyance to conservatives. Since it's basically a 24/7 propaganda mouthpiece for just one side on the political spectrum, financed by everybody... by force. So it's interesting that they've finally started to change this.
It's also interesting that they're chosing to do it two weeks before a national election where the second largest political party is at the moment full on social conservative and racist. They want to do things like make it harder for pregnant women to get abortions. And everything else a modern civilised country tend to take for granted. There's authentic pictures and films of all of their leaders in full Nazi regalia doing Nazi salutes. It's a political party closely associated with classical Nazism. It's, (now dead) founder was a Swedish volonteer for Hitler in WW2.
They've lumped together rape and attempted rape as one category. In Sweden the category of rape is, by international standards, wide and includes things which we ordinarily don't associate with rape. Simply put, it's much easier to be convicted of rape and attempted rape in Sweden, than it is in other countries.
It's still problematic that people born in other countries are over-represented in the statistic. But I'd be curious what the number would be if we'd look at rapes as a separate category. It's worth looking into.
Could easily have been avoided. This guy had applied for refugee status, even though he was an economic migrant. It took them two years of processing to come to this conclusion. For some reason we ask these guys niceley if they would be so kind as to vacate the country. They're given a month to comply. What we should be doing is to send over cops to give them the news, and at the same time kick them out of the country.
All our problems with "Islamic terrorism" stem from this. If we just kick people out quicker, there's no problem. I also have no moral hang-ups about it, because these people lied on the application. They've been wasting the time of public officials for years and I have no love for people like that.
The Uzbeck guy was a non-practicing super liberal Muslim up until he was told to leave the country. He got radicalised super fast. He had in letters lied to his wife about him having gotten permanent residency. So an amateur psychologist might hazard to guess that he might feel shame about having to face his wife about having lied all this time, and his solution was to commit suicide in an Islamic terrorist attack.
The border is about as open or closed now as it was before. Nothing changed. The only thing that changed was that non-refugees saw a chance to mingle with genuine refugees in the hope of slipping through the cracks. How well this has worked we'll find out in the coming years. Since it takes years to process them. But I doubt any of the economic migrants will be allowed to stay. Have you heard of any?
What's the source? Sounds like bullshit to me
That whole case is hillarious. And just goes to show how important it is not to assume shit, and instead check sources and question what you read and hear. Yes, I'm talking about you Derec. Don't be the conservative equivalent version of this idiot lefty liberal.
He's just following the UNHR rules. The EU rules are tailored around protecting Scandinavia, France, England and Germany and letting the rest of EU deal with refugees from the Middle-East and Africa. It's an extremely unfair system. So the "border countries" have every reason to let these people through. It's all about incentives. The EU countries are not being fair toward eachother, and they're all trying to shirk responsibility for taking care of refugees. That's what is creating this bizarre situation where refugees trek through all of Europe before declaring Sweden as their first port of entry into Europe, when it obviously wasn't. It's not the refugees fault. We should put pressure on our European politicians to fix this shit. Because this is a system that ain't working
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