Europe submits voluntarily

[Loren Pechtel]

They've lumped together rape and attempted rape as one category. In Sweden the category of rape is, by international standards, wide and includes things which we ordinarily don't associate with rape. Simply put, it's much easier to be convicted of rape and attempted rape in Sweden, than it is in other countries.

While I agree that Sweden uses a different definition of "rape" as most places (I think a better translation would be "sexual assault") this only interferes with comparisons of the rape rate with other countries, and with old data before they changed the definition.

It's irrelevant to comparing the distribution by country of origin and it's irrelevant if they're lumping rape & attempted rape.

It's still problematic that people born in other countries are over-represented in the statistic. But I'd be curious what the number would be if we'd look at rapes as a separate category. It's worth looking into.

While it could be that they're committing lesser sexual assaults it doesn't change the huge overrepresentation.

Could easily have been avoided. This guy had applied for refugee status, even though he was an economic migrant. It took them two years of processing to come to this conclusion. For some reason we ask these guys niceley if they would be so kind as to vacate the country. They're given a month to comply. What we should be doing is to send over cops to give them the news, and at the same time kick them out of the country.

Unfortunately, saying to kick them out of the country and actually doing so are two different things. Destroy your documents, lie about your country of origin and you're pretty much not deportable.

The Uzbeck guy was a non-practicing super liberal Muslim up until he was told to leave the country. He got radicalised super fast. He had in letters lied to his wife about him having gotten permanent residency. So an amateur psychologist might hazard to guess that he might feel shame about having to face his wife about having lied all this time, and his solution was to commit suicide in an Islamic terrorist attack.

Or played the role to try to get into the country.

 

[angelo]

Further proof " Europe submits voluntarily."

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/08/...arden-so-long-as-its-for-your-own-consumption

 

[Underseer]

Conservatives (and libertarians, who are totally different, I swear!) are openly arguing that not ethnically cleansing Muslims counts as "submitting" to Muslims, but still get butthurt and cry whenever you compare them to white nationalists, neo-Nazis, etc.

Meanwhile, Russia attacked our sovereignty, Republican politicians are doing everything possible to stop America from responding to that attack nor doing anything to defend ourselves from the next attack, but this does not count as "submitting"[ent]hellip[/ent] because it does not involve ethnic cleansing of minorities? I'm not even sure how that logic is supposed to work.

 

[DrZoidberg]

While I agree that Sweden uses a different definition of "rape" as most places (I think a better translation would be "sexual assault") this only interferes with comparisons of the rape rate with other countries, and with old data before they changed the definition.

It's irrelevant to comparing the distribution by country of origin and it's irrelevant if they're lumping rape & attempted rape.

It's interesting living in Denmark, where the rules of the social contract are so different regarding sex. Most of the stuff men are convicted for in Sweden aren't things that it's possible to get convicted for in Denmark. In Sweden it's unclear what the difference between being bad in bed and rape is. If a man does something that makes the woman upset and he fails to notice. In Denmark that just means that she'd better not have sex with him again then. In Sweden it can become a legal matter.

When it comes to sexual crime, Sweden is increasingly becoming a bizarre country. The way you flirt in this country, is also weird.

There was no mention of how long these men born outside the country had been here, or if they lived here. They could mostly be tourists for all we know.

Also, in a lot of countries if the woman has followed the man home everything that happens to her is basically tough luck (legally). Not in Sweden. You can go from consent to rape at any second of the date and the courts will take it seriously.

No shit immigrants fail to nail it so much. In Sweden men and women stare at eachother from across the room for fucking ages, until either make a move. Then it's super important that the initiating party backs off. It is usually the man. But Swedish women do quite often try to pick up men. Compared to other countries this is quite remarkable IMHO. Anyhoo... if you don't back off and let the other party make the second move it will get rapey. This is something Arabs, Americans, Spanish etc get wrong. It takes time to learn. A lot of cultures are also touchy feely as a way of flirting, like France. In Sweden you can't touch someone unless they signal you it's ok. Otherwise it's rapey.

When it comes to dating rituals, Sweden is weird. People who have grown up in Sweden and haven't travelled that much don't understand this. But Swedes are generally very curious about other cultures and are most often well travelled. So they often have the capacity to switch between cultures and adapt. Which is considered well mannered here. But some Swedes aren't and can't. And that's when you can get into trouble.

Anyhoo... I'm just saying that I'd like to see more information on those numbers.

While it could be that they're committing lesser sexual assaults it doesn't change the huge overrepresentation.

Could easily have been avoided. This guy had applied for refugee status, even though he was an economic migrant. It took them two years of processing to come to this conclusion. For some reason we ask these guys niceley if they would be so kind as to vacate the country. They're given a month to comply. What we should be doing is to send over cops to give them the news, and at the same time kick them out of the country.

Unfortunately, saying to kick them out of the country and actually doing so are two different things. Destroy your documents, lie about your country of origin and you're pretty much not deportable.

Not in Sweden. Big brother is alive and well here. Every cop has a database of everybody in Sweden at all times. Loads of electronic systems to help them. In Sweden you don't need to carry your drivers licence with you when you drive for example. If the cop pulls you over he's already seen all your documentation by the time you roll down the window. You can hardly to anything here without identifying yourself.

They've got all his biometrics. There's no escapting Swedish Big Brother.

The Uzbeck guy was a non-practicing super liberal Muslim up until he was told to leave the country. He got radicalised super fast. He had in letters lied to his wife about him having gotten permanent residency. So an amateur psychologist might hazard to guess that he might feel shame about having to face his wife about having lied all this time, and his solution was to commit suicide in an Islamic terrorist attack.

Or played the role to try to get into the country.

Perhaps. But he wouldn't have to. Sweden doesn't register religion or opinions of immigrants/refugees.

 

[angelo]

I see what you're doing there. Sweden is the rape capital of the Western world which is mainly committed by the followers of the terrorist founder of Islam and you DrZoldberg are trying your best to be an apologist for them

by trying to blame the Swedish system of rape reporting instead of where the blame really lays.

Also it's a well known fact that for every victim that comes forward there may be 10 victims who don't report it.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I see what you're doing there. Sweden is the rape capital of the Western world which is mainly committed by the followers of the terrorist founder of Islam and you DrZoldberg are trying your best to be an apologist for them

by trying to blame the Swedish system of rape reporting instead of where the blame really lays.

Also it's a well known fact that for every victim that comes forward there may be 10 victims who don't report it.

Wait... what? That's a nuts statement to say. What makes you think Sweden has more rape than other countries?

Sweden has a unique method of counting rape, and redefined rape. Researchers within the field don't think that rape numbers are can be compared between any two countries, and certainly not between Sweden and another, due to our weird way of counting.

Accepting reality is not being an apologist.

Sweden also has the bizarre system where a third party can report somebody of rape against the wishes of the non-victim and it's entered into the official statistics as an attempted rape. I know of a person who got convicted of rape this way. The "victim" was in court on his side trying to get him acquitted. It's wide open for abuse by anybody who wants to fuck with somebody. And according to the law, the cops need to take all reports just as seriously. This pushes up the numbers significantly.

The Swedish system for sexual crime is completely fucking nuts at this point. And it's getting worse. Recently a new law was passed called Samtyckeslagen. Roughly translated to that you now need consent to have sex. It was passed with big fanfare. All the lawyers were confused because they were under the impression this was already required for sex. Not having consent is what rape is, and has always been.

So it was all populistic nonsense. And I saw nobody speaking out against it. The public debate was silent. That's the kind of environment Sweden is now. It's insane.

Anyhoo... anybody who thinks Sweden has a higher rape frequency than any other country is an idiot who needs to read more.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Not in Sweden. Big brother is alive and well here. Every cop has a database of everybody in Sweden at all times. Loads of electronic systems to help them. In Sweden you don't need to carry your drivers licence with you when you drive for example. If the cop pulls you over he's already seen all your documentation by the time you roll down the window. You can hardly to anything here without identifying yourself.

No, you missed the point entirely.

You can catch them but deport them where? To deport someone you have to know where they came from and the country has to be willing to take them back.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Not in Sweden. Big brother is alive and well here. Every cop has a database of everybody in Sweden at all times. Loads of electronic systems to help them. In Sweden you don't need to carry your drivers licence with you when you drive for example. If the cop pulls you over he's already seen all your documentation by the time you roll down the window. You can hardly to anything here without identifying yourself.

No, you missed the point entirely.

You can catch them but deport them where? To deport someone you have to know where they came from and the country has to be willing to take them back.

I had to read up on this before I answered. Here's a good article I found on it.

http://www.mixedmigrationplatform.o...MP-Briefing-Paper-Rejected-asylum-seekers.pdf

It seems like we've yet to come up with a solution. But we usually don't give them residency permits. That's rare. A lot of them simply abscond and live in hiding. Making collecting statistics difficult. We simply don't know who is still in the country illegally, and who have left the country. The circulation of fake passports and alternative identities isn't helping.

To me I think it seems like the alt-right/racist websites just assume that all these who have vanished from the system are granted residency. Why else would they be so upset?

I know in Sweden we have teams of investigators who go to the countries and communicators refugees say they are from and try to find their family's or anything else to back up the stories. Unless they find something it's a no.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Not in Sweden. Big brother is alive and well here. Every cop has a database of everybody in Sweden at all times. Loads of electronic systems to help them. In Sweden you don't need to carry your drivers licence with you when you drive for example. If the cop pulls you over he's already seen all your documentation by the time you roll down the window. You can hardly to anything here without identifying yourself.

No, you missed the point entirely.

You can catch them but deport them where? To deport someone you have to know where they came from and the country has to be willing to take them back.

I had to read up on this before I answered. Here's a good article I found on it.

http://www.mixedmigrationplatform.o...MP-Briefing-Paper-Rejected-asylum-seekers.pdf

It seems like we've yet to come up with a solution. But we usually don't give them residency permits. That's rare. A lot of them simply abscond and live in hiding. Making collecting statistics difficult. We simply don't know who is still in the country illegally, and who have left the country. The circulation of fake passports and alternative identities isn't helping.

To me I think it seems like the alt-right/racist websites just assume that all these who have vanished from the system are granted residency. Why else would they be so upset?

I know in Sweden we have teams of investigators who go to the countries and communicators refugees say they are from and try to find their family's or anything else to back up the stories. Unless they find something it's a no.

Whether they have been granted residency or not the reality is they don't get deported. They're still around and the bad apples are still committing crimes.

 

[bilby]

I had to read up on this before I answered. Here's a good article I found on it.

http://www.mixedmigrationplatform.o...MP-Briefing-Paper-Rejected-asylum-seekers.pdf

It seems like we've yet to come up with a solution. But we usually don't give them residency permits. That's rare. A lot of them simply abscond and live in hiding. Making collecting statistics difficult. We simply don't know who is still in the country illegally, and who have left the country. The circulation of fake passports and alternative identities isn't helping.

To me I think it seems like the alt-right/racist websites just assume that all these who have vanished from the system are granted residency. Why else would they be so upset?

I know in Sweden we have teams of investigators who go to the countries and communicators refugees say they are from and try to find their family's or anything else to back up the stories. Unless they find something it's a no.

Whether they have been granted residency or not the reality is they don't get deported. They're still around and the bad apples are still committing crimes.

If they are committing crimes at a lower rate than citizens and lawful residents, then they are a net benefit to the community.

Do you have evidence that they are not? After all, petty crime for a citizen carries light penalties if caught; But for an unlawful non-resident, the penalty for even the most trivial infractions is deportation. How likely are you to care about a speeding ticket? Now, how likely would you be to care about a speeding ticket if it meant you would be tossed out of the country and never allowed to return?

Unlawful non-residents are typically very careful to obey the law as much as possible, conversant with keeping themselves and their families alive. They accept unlawfully bad working conditions and unlawfully sub-standard living accommodation in order to stay in the country where they want to live; Few people in that position are dumb enough to commit needless crimes, and the few who do are quickly caught and deported. So it's a non-issue.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I had to read up on this before I answered. Here's a good article I found on it.

http://www.mixedmigrationplatform.o...MP-Briefing-Paper-Rejected-asylum-seekers.pdf

It seems like we've yet to come up with a solution. But we usually don't give them residency permits. That's rare. A lot of them simply abscond and live in hiding. Making collecting statistics difficult. We simply don't know who is still in the country illegally, and who have left the country. The circulation of fake passports and alternative identities isn't helping.

To me I think it seems like the alt-right/racist websites just assume that all these who have vanished from the system are granted residency. Why else would they be so upset?

I know in Sweden we have teams of investigators who go to the countries and communicators refugees say they are from and try to find their family's or anything else to back up the stories. Unless they find something it's a no.

Whether they have been granted residency or not the reality is they don't get deported. They're still around and the bad apples are still committing crimes.

If they are committing crimes at a lower rate than citizens and lawful residents, then they are a net benefit to the community.

Do you have evidence that they are not? After all, petty crime for a citizen carries light penalties if caught; But for an unlawful non-resident, the penalty for even the most trivial infractions is deportation. How likely are you to care about a speeding ticket? Now, how likely would you be to care about a speeding ticket if it meant you would be tossed out of the country and never allowed to return?

Unlawful non-residents are typically very careful to obey the law as much as possible, conversant with keeping themselves and their families alive. They accept unlawfully bad working conditions and unlawfully sub-standard living accommodation in order to stay in the country where they want to live; Few people in that position are dumb enough to commit needless crimes, and the few who do are quickly caught and deported. So it's a non-issue.

Did you not read what I said about the impossibility of deporting many of them?

 

[DrZoidberg]

I had to read up on this before I answered. Here's a good article I found on it.

http://www.mixedmigrationplatform.o...MP-Briefing-Paper-Rejected-asylum-seekers.pdf

It seems like we've yet to come up with a solution. But we usually don't give them residency permits. That's rare. A lot of them simply abscond and live in hiding. Making collecting statistics difficult. We simply don't know who is still in the country illegally, and who have left the country. The circulation of fake passports and alternative identities isn't helping.

To me I think it seems like the alt-right/racist websites just assume that all these who have vanished from the system are granted residency. Why else would they be so upset?

I know in Sweden we have teams of investigators who go to the countries and communicators refugees say they are from and try to find their family's or anything else to back up the stories. Unless they find something it's a no.

Whether they have been granted residency or not the reality is they don't get deported. They're still around and the bad apples are still committing crimes.

Not only that but sitting around all day doing nothing warps the mind. While also putting them under a lot of emotional stress. Since they don't know if they will be allowed to stay.

We are systematically doing our best to turn these people into criminals. That's extremely irresponsible on our part.

Sweden is among the worst offenders. Since we keep changing the rules. We can grant residency, and then retroactively retract it. There's just no excuse for it

 

[repoman]

urge to curbstomp this journalist...

 

[DrZoidberg]

View attachment 17263

urge to curbstomp this journalist...

I hate hate hate identitarians at this point. I also think she's unaware of what a rampant racist she is

 

[bilby]

View attachment 17263

urge to curbstomp this journalist...

I hate hate hate identitarians at this point. I also think she's unaware of what a rampant racist she is

To be honest, it's likely not her headline - headlines are usually written by sub-editors - and it is not racist to point out that the racial makeup of a parliament is disproportionately out of kilter with the makeup of the society that they nominally represent.

A parliament that has a far higher proportion of white people, men, Christians, heterosexuals and/or rich people than the polity it governs is potentially an indicator that that body may be insufficiently representative.

Of course, to find out whether or not that is Ms Rankin's argument, we would need to read the article, not just the banner headline...

 

[angelo]

Not in Sweden. Big brother is alive and well here. Every cop has a database of everybody in Sweden at all times. Loads of electronic systems to help them. In Sweden you don't need to carry your drivers licence with you when you drive for example. If the cop pulls you over he's already seen all your documentation by the time you roll down the window. You can hardly to anything here without identifying yourself.

No, you missed the point entirely.

You can catch them but deport them where? To deport someone you have to know where they came from and the country has to be willing to take them back.

The perfect example is here..........................https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/08/...-crimes-because-they-dont-know-where-hes-from

 

[angelo]

I see what you're doing there. Sweden is the rape capital of the Western world which is mainly committed by the followers of the terrorist founder of Islam and you DrZoldberg are trying your best to be an apologist for them

by trying to blame the Swedish system of rape reporting instead of where the blame really lays.

Also it's a well known fact that for every victim that comes forward there may be 10 victims who don't report it.

Wait... what? That's a nuts statement to say. What makes you think Sweden has more rape than other countries?

Sweden has a unique method of counting rape, and redefined rape. Researchers within the field don't think that rape numbers are can be compared between any two countries, and certainly not between Sweden and another, due to our weird way of counting.

Accepting reality is not being an apologist.

Sweden also has the bizarre system where a third party can report somebody of rape against the wishes of the non-victim and it's entered into the official statistics as an attempted rape. I know of a person who got convicted of rape this way. The "victim" was in court on his side trying to get him acquitted. It's wide open for abuse by anybody who wants to fuck with somebody. And according to the law, the cops need to take all reports just as seriously. This pushes up the numbers significantly.

The Swedish system for sexual crime is completely fucking nuts at this point. And it's getting worse. Recently a new law was passed called Samtyckeslagen. Roughly translated to that you now need consent to have sex. It was passed with big fanfare. All the lawyers were confused because they were under the impression this was already required for sex. Not having consent is what rape is, and has always been.

So it was all populistic nonsense. And I saw nobody speaking out against it. The public debate was silent. That's the kind of environment Sweden is now. It's insane.

Anyhoo... anybody who thinks Sweden has a higher rape frequency than any other country is an idiot who needs to read more.

You don't usually read reports like this in mainstream or leftist media.............................................https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/08/...-brussels-party-planning-to-push-for-a-swexit

 

[angelo]

I had to read up on this before I answered. Here's a good article I found on it.

http://www.mixedmigrationplatform.o...MP-Briefing-Paper-Rejected-asylum-seekers.pdf

It seems like we've yet to come up with a solution. But we usually don't give them residency permits. That's rare. A lot of them simply abscond and live in hiding. Making collecting statistics difficult. We simply don't know who is still in the country illegally, and who have left the country. The circulation of fake passports and alternative identities isn't helping.

To me I think it seems like the alt-right/racist websites just assume that all these who have vanished from the system are granted residency. Why else would they be so upset?

I know in Sweden we have teams of investigators who go to the countries and communicators refugees say they are from and try to find their family's or anything else to back up the stories. Unless they find something it's a no.

Whether they have been granted residency or not the reality is they don't get deported. They're still around and the bad apples are still committing crimes.

Not only that but sitting around all day doing nothing warps the mind. While also putting them under a lot of emotional stress. Since they don't know if they will be allowed to stay.

We are systematically doing our best to turn these people into criminals. That's extremely irresponsible on our part.

Sweden is among the worst offenders. Since we keep changing the rules. We can grant residency, and then retroactively retract it. There's just no excuse for it

Isn't the best way to avoid all this trouble is to refuse them entry in the first place?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Not in Sweden. Big brother is alive and well here. Every cop has a database of everybody in Sweden at all times. Loads of electronic systems to help them. In Sweden you don't need to carry your drivers licence with you when you drive for example. If the cop pulls you over he's already seen all your documentation by the time you roll down the window. You can hardly to anything here without identifying yourself.

No, you missed the point entirely.

You can catch them but deport them where? To deport someone you have to know where they came from and the country has to be willing to take them back.

The perfect example is here..........................https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/08/...-crimes-because-they-dont-know-where-hes-from

You know that nobody here except you trust Jihadwatch as a source. So why do you even bother linking to it? If there's any kind of truth to it, don't you think the trustworthy part of the media would also report on it? If it's only Jihadwatch who report on something, chances are pretty good that they just made it up, don't you think?

 

[DrZoidberg]

View attachment 17263

urge to curbstomp this journalist...

I hate hate hate identitarians at this point. I also think she's unaware of what a rampant racist she is

To be honest, it's likely not her headline - headlines are usually written by sub-editors - and it is not racist to point out that the racial makeup of a parliament is disproportionately out of kilter with the makeup of the society that they nominally represent.

A parliament that has a far higher proportion of white people, men, Christians, heterosexuals and/or rich people than the polity it governs is potentially an indicator that that body may be insufficiently representative.

Of course, to find out whether or not that is Ms Rankin's argument, we would need to read the article, not just the banner headline...

That assumes that voters want to vote for people just like them. I don't think that's how it works. I want somebody who can do a good job. I'm an IT guy. I'm good with computers, but I know fuck all about how to run a country. We want educated people. People educated on just the right stuff. Immigrants and the children of immigrants will most likely make up the lower, and less educated classes in society. That isn't a racist idea. This is usually true, regardless from or to where people migrate. It's not universally true. But mostly, especially in Europe, because of the type of immigration we've had, ie predominantly from the colonies.

Anyhoo... the idea that an immigrant voter is more likely to think a white political candidate is the most competent person for the job, is not wildly controversial and, more importantly, isn't racist.

The problem if we vote for candidates based on the colour of their skin is that we get the situation of Sweden's current minister of culture. Granted that this position is a bone thrown to the weakest candidate to make it into the government, it's still important. Sweden's current minister of culture is a black woman, called Alice Bah Kunke, and she is a moron. The constant stream of mindblowingly stupid shit she says is on par with Trump. She's like a female, liberal version of him. She's of course also famous from TV. And later went into politics.

The lack of non-whites in European governments is NOT a problem. If there were none, I'd be concerned. Because that might indicate rampant racism. But there are some. So I wouldn't worry.