Europe submits voluntarily

[Bomb#20]

Israel is not a democracy but Gaza and other Arab nations are, is that correct?

Hamas is the only legitimately elected government in the Arab world.

Winning one election does not make you thenceforth a legitimately elected government until the end of time. Hamas agreed to hold new elections in 2014, and then didn't. It is no longer a legitimately elected government. No, Tunisia has the only legitimately elected government in the Arab world. It's the homeland of the Arab Spring and so far its only success.

But Israel only pays lip service to democracy. It believes in democracy only as long as Israel is predominately Jewish.

And it doesn't want democracy for the Palestinians.

Neither does Hamas. They "won" that election the same way Bush "won" here: by the geographical distribution of their supporters. Hamas got 44% of the vote and 56% of the seats.

 

[TSwizzle]

It's not death. It's evolution. There's constant change. Always has been. Always will be. This is good. Things tend to change for the better. This would happen with or without Muslim immigrants.

Has there been any precedent in the recent past where this is actually true ?

 

[bilby]

It's not death. It's evolution. There's constant change. Always has been. Always will be. This is good. Things tend to change for the better. This would happen with or without Muslim immigrants.

Has there been any precedent in the recent past where this is actually true ?

What, that things have changed for the better in Europe?

No, everything in Europe is exactly as it was in 1900. The only aeroplanes are tiny biplanes that can barely cross the English Channel; Along with cars, these are merely toys for the hyper rich - who, due to very limited suffrage in those few places that are democracies, have oligarchical control of everything. Infant mortality is sky high; Wars are common, and fought mostly on horseback; And factories are deadly hell-holes where serious injuries to workers are commonplace. Poverty is rife; Plastics are non-existent; Electricity is rare, and if you want it you have to generate it yourself - most homes are lit by candles, or by gaslights that run on highly toxic coal-gas. Domestic service is one of the largest employers, Railways are the only reliable form of long-distance land transport, and steamships are the only way to get from Europe to the Americas.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Reach out to what? Hamas made it clear that they were choosing the path of war. They got war.

All they did was get elected.

That was enough to be attacked by Israel that phony supporter of democracy.

They got elected on a platform of war. Why should Israel not react to them saying they're going to war?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Israel is not a democracy but Gaza and other Arab nations are, is that correct?

Hamas is the only legitimately elected government in the Arab world.

But Israel only pays lip service to democracy. It believes in democracy only as long as Israel is predominately Jewish.

And it doesn't want democracy for the Palestinians.

Hamas won a majority of seats--and then seized power by force. Hardly democratic.

They also haven't been willing to hold another election--again, not democratic.

And Israel didn't try to stop the Palestinians from holding their election. It's just choices have consequences. Hamas made it clear that a vote for Hamas was a vote for war--thus Israel treated the vote as a vote for war.

 

[TSwizzle]

Has there been any precedent in the recent past where this is actually true ?

What, that things have changed for the better in Europe?

No, {snip}:

You never pass up an opportunity to display you're an obnoxious fuckwit do you ?

And off to ignore you go.

 

[bilby]

What, that things have changed for the better in Europe?

No, {snip}:

You never pass up an opportunity to display you're an obnoxious fuckwit do you ?

And off to ignore you go.

My heart bleeds.

It really is very sad when someone who hasn't the intelligence to support their poorly thought out positions on an issue responds by throwing their toys out of the pram and refusing to engage further, rather than re-thinking their position. It creates a vicious circle, where they never learn, so they never win arguments, so they never learn...

 

[Jayjay]

I don't really get how the discussion on Europe veered to Palestine, sorry about stoking the flames. It's completely off-topic. Palestinian refugees are hardly flooding Europe, and hamas or PLO are not terrorist threats to Europe, they are pretty much focused on Israel.

I for one think that Europe could easily absorb all the Palestinian refugees if it helped end the conflict. Heck I'd rather take Palestinians over Iraqis or Afghani refugees: Palestinians are usually better educated than average Arabs, thanks to UNRWA schools, and most of them have lived in camps their whole lives rather than just a couple of years.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yup. That's why it amazes me how anyone who thinks himself liberal or freethinker can possibly bend over into a pretzel defending groups like Hamas. Sometimes, terrorists can reform with time, like the IRA. But Islamists all over the world just seem to be getting worse.

Actually, they tend to reform with time--as the people age they get more moderate.

It's just terrorism exists because someone is funding it--and as groups moderate the funds get directed to more radical groups. The PLO grew more moderate--and so the money went to Hamas. If Hamas moderates it will go somewhere else.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Arab civilians vs. Jewish civilians are statistically more likely to be victims of rocket attacks.

Only if you count short-falling rockets.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The liberal city-dwellers in Turkey are not the majority. And you have to undestand that Turkey used to have regular military coups whenever Islamists got too big, but that's in the past and the initially moderate AKP has turned into more and more autocratic at each turn. It might not be an islamist nightmare yet, but it's certainly moving towards that direction.

Yeah--Turkey is on the road to being Islamist, they haven't gotten rid of all the western influences yet.

 

[angelo]

Israel is not a democracy but Gaza and other Arab nations are, is that correct?

Hamas is the only legitimately elected government in the Arab world.

But Israel only pays lip service to democracy. It believes in democracy only as long as Israel is predominately Jewish.

And it doesn't want democracy for the Palestinians.

What a load of codswallop!!! Israeli Arabs, the whole 1.6 million of them vote in government elections. There are even Arab members of the Knesset. Please don't post your bullshit here!

 

[angelo]

Facts? The fact is that the death of Europe is in sight. Still hazy and not yet inevitable, but nevertheless visible and drawing closer. Europeans believe in human rights, tolerance, openness, peace, progress, the environment and pleasure. But it's forgotten that all those things sprang up from Judaism and Christianity. All that is not tolerated by Islam. It was W. Churchill who said : appeasement is like feeding a crocodile hoping that it will eat you last.

Lol. I've forgotten how those sprang from Judaism and Christianity. Pretty sure that I never learned it to begin with. On your quote. It was about Nazism. An idea sprung from Christianity, with a sprinkle of Darwinism on top. So much for your theory.

Love your flare for the dramatic. It's not death. It's evolution. There's constant change. Always has been. Always will be. This is good. Things tend to change for the better. This would happen with or without Muslim immigrants.

You'd be happy to live with sharia?

 

[angelo]

The liberal city-dwellers in Turkey are not the majority. And you have to undestand that Turkey used to have regular military coups whenever Islamists got too big, but that's in the past and the initially moderate AKP has turned into more and more autocratic at each turn. It might not be an islamist nightmare yet, but it's certainly moving towards that direction.

Yeah--Turkey is on the road to being Islamist, they haven't gotten rid of all the western influences yet.

It's just a matter of time while Erdogan is leader. Some elections are coming up, the Turks have a chance to vote on it.
It wouldn't surprise me if Erdogan tries to rig those elections.

 

[Ford]

Facts? The fact is that the death of Europe is in sight. Still hazy and not yet inevitable, but nevertheless visible and drawing closer.

Apparently paranoid rhetoric now counts as "fact" in the minds of some people. Hazy minds to be sure, but nevertheless paranoid and getting worse.

 

[untermensche]

Hamas is the only legitimately elected government in the Arab world.

But Israel only pays lip service to democracy. It believes in democracy only as long as Israel is predominately Jewish.

And it doesn't want democracy for the Palestinians.

What a load of codswallop!!! Israeli Arabs, the whole 1.6 million of them vote in government elections. There are even Arab members of the Knesset. Please don't post your bullshit here!

As long as Muslims are a powerless minority they can vote.

When their vote means nothing they can vote.

 

[repoman]

 

[bilby]

View attachment 4577

This is paranoid nonsense. Nobody should be frightened by this spectre.

 

[repoman]

It is real quote, you can see the video for yourself and the twitter is also real.

But at any rate, I am more concerned with Islam than race. If they were all Catholic Filipinos I would not feel nearly as badly for Europe.

 

[bilby]

It is real quote, you can see the video for yourself and the twitter is also real.

But at any rate, I am more concerned with Islam than race. If they were all Catholic Filipinos I would not feel nearly as badly for Europe.

I am sure it is a real quote. I very much doubt that this person has any significant power, despite the nice big brightly coloured text telling the infants how scared they should be about what she says.

Europe doesn't need you to feel badly about it; It is perfectly OK, and will continue to be just fine. There will always be a small number of extremists at every extreme. But right now, Islam is less of a threat to Europe than neo-fascism; and neither are likely to become hugely disruptive to the lives of ordinary Europeans.