Europe submits voluntarily

[whichphilosophy]

Since there are less Asians in Dorset there will be less demand for this. If you go to India most cinemas are showing Indian films with very few Western ones.

So the only ones in England watching Asian movies are Asians.

Thanks for proving my point.

This is obvious that Europeans watch mainly European movies. They also tend to wear European clothes. In India they watch mainly Indian movies. What is the value of something we already know. My wife likes Filipino movies because she is from the Philippines. My only query is how this is important.

 

[Jokodo]

So the only ones in England watching Asian movies are Asians.

Thanks for proving my point.

This is obvious that Europeans watch mainly European movies. They also tend to wear European clothes. In India they watch mainly Indian movies. What is the value of something we already know. My wife likes Filipino movies because she is from the Philippines. My only query is how this is important.

It's not true. Westerners are special in their total disregard for other cultures. It's true that Indian movies are more popular in India than in in other places, but Indians also know Western movies, and Africans know Western and Indian movies, while people in the West for the most part live in total ignorance of (pop) cultural developments everywhere else.

If you don't know how it's important: Read the fucking thread. My comment doesn't stand in isolation, it's a reply to what someone else said, which is again a reply to a third poster.

 

[arkirk]

This is paranoid nonsense. Nobody should be frightened by this spectre.

I happen to agree with the sentiment of Barbara L. Spectre. But I don't think what you think she's saying means what you think she means. White privilege is about an unhelpful attitude. For example it's about the fact that Asians and Africans can sing along our music hits, know our films, know our cultural expressions, and know, sort of, how our societies work, and we don't know how their work, and don't care about their culture. It's unhelpful for several reasons. But the most serious will be that we risk making Europe and USA irrelevant, in a future where median incomes, between nations will be, more or less, equal all across the globe. It will happen. It's just a matter of time. We simply have to give more of a shit about other cultures. We can't afford to be as ethnocentric as we're used to. Since the 17'th century we've been given an edge because the industrial revolution happened in this part of the world. I don't know if you've noticed, but that edge is eroding. We have to stop pretending like we're superior in every way. We're superior in some ways. Inferior in others. Just like every other culture and society. Society and culture evolves as well.

The economist Richard Florida has managed to show how the degree of cultural openness and liberalism is directly linked to economic progress. More gives more. This is what is at stake here. We have to transform Europe to stay relevant in the future. Ethnocentric Islamic culture is also doomed to die for the same reason. But the good news is that we need to do nothing. It'll destroy itself in time. As any reactionary society always does.

I am in essential agreement with the highlighted statement. The problem is that while it destroys itself, it also destroys a lot of lives of people not involved or guilty of the crime of Islamism. The same is true of Christianity, Judaism, also some forms of Buddhism. Definitely the degree of multiculturalism can be a helpful factor in introducing people to tolerance. But for real peace, these religions and ethnic identities need to be abandoned by and large in favor of a more inclusive humanism.

 

[whichphilosophy]

This is obvious that Europeans watch mainly European movies. They also tend to wear European clothes. In India they watch mainly Indian movies. What is the value of something we already know. My wife likes Filipino movies because she is from the Philippines. My only query is how this is important.

It's not true. Westerners are special in their total disregard for other cultures. It's true that Indian movies are more popular in India than in in other places, but Indians also know Western movies, and Africans know Western and Indian movies, while people in the West for the most part live in total ignorance of (pop) cultural developments everywhere else.

If you don't know how it's important: Read the fucking thread. My comment doesn't stand in isolation, it's a reply to what someone else said, which is again a reply to a third poster.

The trend is many are looking at Western culture. A good example since the end of the war is a movement from their ethnic dress to European dress. In the past 10 or so years I have seen a slight move away from Western fashions back to Ethnic ones. And what about Western pop. Isn't that derived from African music? I have 4 nationalities but because I was born in the UK have adopted British culture. We class British as tolerance, diverse, respect for human rights, democracy and free speech. However if we suddenly absorb millions at unprecedented levels who are not tolerant of this then there will be problems. There is even a place for Sharia civil law in the UK as long as the courts follow the Arbitration Act.

 

[bilby]

Have you looked into treatments?

Repeating paranoid statements again and again with slightly different words does not make them any less irrational.

While some who oppose unrestricted immigration may be racist, bigoted or anti Christian or whatever, we must forget that we are putting our security at risk.

British MI5 has issued one warning. While it is common knowledge ISIS wishes to plan mass attacks all over Europe, the concern now is are there sufficient resources to do this.
9/11 strategy involved careful planning and the seizing of resources.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...mass-attack-on-Britain-warns-head-of-MI5.html


Islamic State terrorists are planning mass casualty attacks in Britain the head of MI5 has warned.
Andrew Parker, director general of the security agency, said threats from homegrown jihadis who want to fight for the militant movement showed no sign of abating.
He also publicly admitted for the first time that MI5 had to carry out computer hacking attacks against terror networks to crack their communications.


Delivering the Lord Mayor of London’s annual defence and security lecture, he said the current level of threat was the highest he had seen in a career spanning 32-years. In the past 12 months his agency has thwarted six terror plots in the UK and another seven abroad.


Mr Parker said four fifths of the 4,000-strong agency’s resources were directed at stopping terrorist attacks, with an increasing proportion of them linked to Syria and Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil sophisticated exploitation of technology.”

AND

He went on: “We have thwarted six attempts at terrorist attacks in the UK in the last year, and several plots overseas.
“It may not yet have reached the high water mark, and despite the successes we have had, we can never be confident of stopping everything. The death of 31 British nationals in the Sousse attacks in June was an appalling reminder of the threat.”
The scale of the threat meant MI5 had to update its “toolbox” of methods to fight terrorists, including using computer attacks.

So maybe one day once a few attacks have taken place and we elect an inert government which is not paralysed with ineptitude we may even keep those without ID in detention centres until their ID is established. That would be a start.

Another start would be for Turkey to actually stop letting Britons into Syria through its checkpoints. However that is not likley to happen soon
Then who join ISIS, it should be a one way ticket.

Your evidence of a threat from non-immigrants does nothing to suggest that immigrants are a problem.

This makes as much sense as saying that you are terrified of spiders, and using a warning about shark attacks to justify your fear.

 

[dystopian]

So the only ones in England watching Asian movies are Asians.

Thanks for proving my point.

This is obvious that Europeans watch mainly European movies. They also tend to wear European clothes. In India they watch mainly Indian movies.

Pretty sure that Europeans mainly watch American movies and wear African/South-East Asian clothes. If we're going to get technical.

It's not true. Westerners are special in their total disregard for other cultures. It's true that Indian movies are more popular in India than in in other places, but Indians also know Western movies, and Africans know Western and Indian movies, while people in the West for the most part live in total ignorance of (pop) cultural developments everywhere else.

This is an argument that really doesn't work on closer inspection. Yes, Indians will also know western movies. They will not, however, be any more likely to know Korean movies than the average European. The knowledge the average Indian is going to have of popcultural developments in other Asian countries is going to be roughly similar (once we adjust for any potentially diminished capacity to know of such things due to poverty) to the same type of knowledge the average European is going to have of other European countries. The fact that western movies (really, American movies) are popular both in the west and elsewhere while bollywood movies aren't has nothing to do with westerners disregarding other cultures and everything to do with budgets, the relative development levels of regional movie industries, and taste.

Indian movies actually do enjoy significant popularity in parts of Europe. Hell, they even get dubbed in German and broadcast on German television for reasons I personally can't fathom. That said, it's unreasonable to expect them to have the same kind of mainstream appeal in the west as western movies will have in India...

...even if only for the reason that musicals are shit in general.

With that in mind, it should be little surprise that East-Asian cinema is more popular in the west than Indian cinema is.

 

[whichphilosophy]

While some who oppose unrestricted immigration may be racist, bigoted or anti Christian or whatever, we must forget that we are putting our security at risk.
British MI5 has issued one warning. While it is common knowledge ISIS wishes to plan mass attacks all over Europe, the concern now is are there sufficient resources to do this.
9/11 strategy involved careful planning and the seizing of resources.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...mass-attack-on-Britain-warns-head-of-MI5.html


Islamic State terrorists are planning mass casualty attacks in Britain the head of MI5 has warned.
Andrew Parker, director general of the security agency, said threats from homegrown jihadis who want to fight for the militant movement showed no sign of abating.
He also publicly admitted for the first time that MI5 had to carry out computer hacking attacks against terror networks to crack their communications.


Delivering the Lord Mayor of London’s annual defence and security lecture, he said the current level of threat was the highest he had seen in a career spanning 32-years. In the past 12 months his agency has thwarted six terror plots in the UK and another seven abroad.


Mr Parker said four fifths of the 4,000-strong agency’s resources were directed at stopping terrorist attacks, with an increasing proportion of them linked to Syria and Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil sophisticated exploitation of technology.”

AND

He went on: “We have thwarted six attempts at terrorist attacks in the UK in the last year, and several plots overseas.
“It may not yet have reached the high water mark, and despite the successes we have had, we can never be confident of stopping everything. The death of 31 British nationals in the Sousse attacks in June was an appalling reminder of the threat.”
The scale of the threat meant MI5 had to update its “toolbox” of methods to fight terrorists, including using computer attacks.

So maybe one day once a few attacks have taken place and we elect an inert government which is not paralysed with ineptitude we may even keep those without ID in detention centres until their ID is established. That would be a start.

Another start would be for Turkey to actually stop letting Britons into Syria through its checkpoints. However that is not likley to happen soon
Then who join ISIS, it should be a one way ticket.

Your evidence of a threat from non-immigrants does nothing to suggest that immigrants are a problem.

This makes as much sense as saying that you are terrified of spiders, and using a warning about shark attacks to justify your fear.

Immigrants in most cases are not but a small amount are.

Fire safety precautions does not mean the psychiatric disorder Pyromania. They are often 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants.
This is still a small proportion but statistically if millions are driven into the UK then the threat could increase. However apart from restoring our national security we need to involve those within the UK to leading a more satisfying lifestyle. The word integration is perhaps an ugly word. As it also suggests conformity. The Chinese didn't integrate in many societies but got along with usually got along. Tolerance and learning to accept each others diversity would be better. However this should be within the framework of English Law in the UK

 

[bilby]

Your evidence of a threat from non-immigrants does nothing to suggest that immigrants are a problem.

This makes as much sense as saying that you are terrified of spiders, and using a warning about shark attacks to justify your fear.

Immigrants in most cases are not but a small amount are.

Fire safety precautions does not mean the psychiatric disorder Pyromania. They are often 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants.
This is still a small proportion but statistically if millions are driven into the UK then the threat could increase. However apart from restoring our national security we need to involve those within the UK to leading a more satisfying lifestyle. The word integration is perhaps an ugly word. As it also suggests conformity. The Chinese didn't integrate in many societies but got along with usually got along. Tolerance and learning to accept each others diversity would be better. However this should be within the framework of English Law in the UK

They are not 'often' anything; mass casualty terrorist attacks in the UK are extraordinarily rare, since the IRA ceasefire. They were 'often' Irish Republicans, almost none of whom were immigrants, because they either lived in Eire and only visited the UK to commit their acts of terrorism; or they were born in Northern Ireland and had UK citizenship by birth going back as many generations as you could count.

Since the end of the IRA threat, terrorism has become even more rare in the UK; The only mass casualty attack that comes to mind is the 2005 Tube bombings (that's a decade ago now), and the bombers there were all third generation British Citizens. You can call them 'third generation immigrants' if you have an agenda to make 'immigrant' a scary, scary word; but these bombers were not pushed into terrorism by their grandfathers, they were pushed into terrorism by racial and religious intolerance from other British Citizens - as, indeed, were many of the Irish Republican terrorists before them.

You don't stop people from lashing out at their oppressors by oppressing them (or people with whom they identify) more harshly.

The threat is tiny; it is home grown; and the fertiliser it grows in is exactly the kind of xenophobic nonsense you and others are pushing in this thread.

 

[maxparrish]

So children, while many here have fiddled playing us childish tunes of the rosy future of Western Europe, even for Sweden and Germany, the future has arrived, and every week and month it mocks the board's would be Neros...when will this embarrassing and shameless denial end?

Just in the last week, these news stories:

Refugees refusing to leave bus in 'too cold' Swedish village to be removed
The Guardian‎ - 6 hours ago

A man checks a map of Sweden after arriving at Malmo train station in Sweden in ...

The Latest: 2 more migrants dead on Greek island of Lesbos
Yahoo News‎ - 2 hours ago

The Latest: After more than 20 blazes, Sweden to keep location of refugee housing secret
Fox News‎ - 2 days ago

An Attack and an Identity Crisis in Sweden
The New Yorker-Oct 23, 2015

A racially motivated attack at a school in Sweden has shaken a country already experiencing a clash of ideals over immigration.

Swedish killer sought victims by skin color at school
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette-Oct 23, 2015

Deadly school stabbing highlights racial tensions in Sweden
Yahoo News-Oct 24, 2015

Sweden school attack: killer Anton Lundin Pettersson glorified Nazis ...
South China Morning Post (subscription)-Oct 23, 2015

Teacher killed, pupils hurt in sword attack on Sweden school
Opinion-The Express Tribune-Oct 22, 2015

Swedish police say school attack was racist, as refugee rules ...
In-Depth-The Guardian-Oct 23, 2015

 

[Jokodo]

So children, while many here have fiddled playing us childish tunes of the rosy future of Western Europe, even for Sweden and Germany, the future has arrived, and every week and month it mocks the board's would be Neros...when will this embarrassing and shameless denial end?

Just in the last week, these news stories:

Refugees refusing to leave bus in 'too cold' Swedish village to be removed
The Guardian‎ - 6 hours ago

A man checks a map of Sweden after arriving at Malmo train station in Sweden in ...

The Latest: 2 more migrants dead on Greek island of Lesbos
Yahoo News‎ - 2 hours ago

The Latest: After more than 20 blazes, Sweden to keep location of refugee housing secret
Fox News‎ - 2 days ago

An Attack and an Identity Crisis in Sweden
The New Yorker-Oct 23, 2015

A racially motivated attack at a school in Sweden has shaken a country already experiencing a clash of ideals over immigration.

Swedish killer sought victims by skin color at school
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette-Oct 23, 2015

Deadly school stabbing highlights racial tensions in Sweden
Yahoo News-Oct 24, 2015

Sweden school attack: killer Anton Lundin Pettersson glorified Nazis ...
South China Morning Post (subscription)-Oct 23, 2015

Teacher killed, pupils hurt in sword attack on Sweden school
Opinion-The Express Tribune-Oct 22, 2015

Swedish police say school attack was racist, as refugee rules ...
In-Depth-The Guardian-Oct 23, 2015

Neofascist violence as evidence that the refugees are dangerous?

Migrants dying because closed borders forced them on leaky boats as evidence that the borders need to be closed?

Even you can do better than that!

 

[Ford]

S
Just in the last week, these news stories:

Refugees refusing to leave bus in 'too cold' Swedish village to be removed
The Guardian‎ - 6 hours ago

This just in, Sweden is cold.

A man checks a map of Sweden after arriving at Malmo train station in Sweden in ...

A map? I thought all the migrants had iPhones?

The Latest: 2 more migrants dead on Greek island of Lesbos
Yahoo News‎ - 2 hours ago

Killed by lesbians?

The Latest: After more than 20 blazes, Sweden to keep location of refugee housing secret
Fox News‎ - 2 days ago

Maybe they were trying to keep the migrants warm? Sweden is after all quite chilly (see above).

An Attack and an Identity Crisis in Sweden
The New Yorker-Oct 23, 2015

Was it a suicide bomber? Or was it a Swede attacking a migrant? Mmmm...

A racially motivated attack at a school in Sweden has shaken a country already experiencing a clash of ideals over immigration.

Wait, don't tell me...let me guess. It was a Muslim terrorist attacking the school because there were too many white kids there?

Swedish killer sought victims by skin color at school
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette-Oct 23, 2015

Or maybe, just maybe this is where those egalitarian, tolerant European values fail?

Deadly school stabbing highlights racial tensions in Sweden
Yahoo News-Oct 24, 2015

Starting to look that way...

Sweden school attack: killer Anton Lundin Pettersson glorified Nazis ...
South China Morning Post (subscription)-Oct 23, 2015

You know, if you're going to make the case that immigrants are the bad guys...

Teacher killed, pupils hurt in sword attack on Sweden school
Opinion-The Express Tribune-Oct 22, 2015

So in addition to iPhones, immigrants brought swords?

Swedish police say school attack was racist, as refugee rules ...
In-Depth-The Guardian-Oct 23, 2015

Racist against white people? Or was this another case of old "European values" rising from the dead?


Because it seems that the backlash against the immigrants isn't coming from a place of tolerance or egalitarianism or being just too damned open to refugees, but by paranoid, violent racists who think letting in a few slightly more swarthy migrants will somehow destroy lily-white Western Europe.

 

[Jayjay]

Neofascist violence as evidence that the refugees are dangerous?

Migrants dying because closed borders forced them on leaky boats as evidence that the borders need to be closed?

Even you can do better than that!

These are not so much examples of refugees being dangerous, as they are examples of unchecked immigration policies being dangerous.

 

[Jokodo]

This is obvious that Europeans watch mainly European movies. They also tend to wear European clothes. In India they watch mainly Indian movies.

Pretty sure that Europeans mainly watch American movies and wear African/South-East Asian clothes. If we're going to get technical.

It's not true. Westerners are special in their total disregard for other cultures. It's true that Indian movies are more popular in India than in in other places, but Indians also know Western movies, and Africans know Western and Indian movies, while people in the West for the most part live in total ignorance of (pop) cultural developments everywhere else.

This is an argument that really doesn't work on closer inspection. Yes, Indians will also know western movies. They will not, however, be any more likely to know Korean movies than the average European. The knowledge the average Indian is going to have of popcultural developments in other Asian countries is going to be roughly similar (once we adjust for any potentially diminished capacity to know of such things due to poverty) to the same type of knowledge the average European is going to have of other European countries. The fact that western movies (really, American movies) are popular both in the west and elsewhere while bollywood movies aren't has nothing to do with westerners disregarding other cultures and everything to do with budgets, the relative development levels of regional movie industries, and taste.

Indian movies actually do enjoy significant popularity in parts of Europe. Hell, they even get dubbed in German and broadcast on German television for reasons I personally can't fathom. That said, it's unreasonable to expect them to have the same kind of mainstream appeal in the west as western movies will have in India...

...even if only for the reason that musicals are shit in general.

With that in mind, it should be little surprise that East-Asian cinema is more popular in the west than Indian cinema is.

As I said, the only cinema in the small town of Azrou in the Atlas Moyen was screening 5 movies from four continents, in five different languages, when I was there in 2000.

I've also read that in Nigeria, you'll find a lot of Indian (and to a slightly lesser degree American) movies besides the output of a growing local industry.

It really isn't just that Hollywood is so strong that everyone has to follow it. Like it or not, people pretty much anywhere else are more cosmopolitan in their consumption of popular culture than Westerners.

- - - Updated - - -

Neofascist violence as evidence that the refugees are dangerous?

Migrants dying because closed borders forced them on leaky boats as evidence that the borders need to be closed?

Even you can do better than that!

These are not so much examples of refugees being dangerous, as they are examples of unchecked immigration policies being dangerous.

In other words, your solution to right-wing terrorism is to yield to the terrorists' demands?

You know tasting real political influence is only going to make them bolder?

Common sense, really.

 

[Jayjay]

Pretty sure that Europeans mainly watch American movies and wear African/South-East Asian clothes. If we're going to get technical.

It's not true. Westerners are special in their total disregard for other cultures. It's true that Indian movies are more popular in India than in in other places, but Indians also know Western movies, and Africans know Western and Indian movies, while people in the West for the most part live in total ignorance of (pop) cultural developments everywhere else.

This is an argument that really doesn't work on closer inspection. Yes, Indians will also know western movies. They will not, however, be any more likely to know Korean movies than the average European. The knowledge the average Indian is going to have of popcultural developments in other Asian countries is going to be roughly similar (once we adjust for any potentially diminished capacity to know of such things due to poverty) to the same type of knowledge the average European is going to have of other European countries. The fact that western movies (really, American movies) are popular both in the west and elsewhere while bollywood movies aren't has nothing to do with westerners disregarding other cultures and everything to do with budgets, the relative development levels of regional movie industries, and taste.

Indian movies actually do enjoy significant popularity in parts of Europe. Hell, they even get dubbed in German and broadcast on German television for reasons I personally can't fathom. That said, it's unreasonable to expect them to have the same kind of mainstream appeal in the west as western movies will have in India...

...even if only for the reason that musicals are shit in general.

With that in mind, it should be little surprise that East-Asian cinema is more popular in the west than Indian cinema is.

As I said, the only cinema in the small town of Azrou in the Atlas Moyen was screening 5 movies from four continents, in five different languages, when I was there in 2000.

I've also read that in Nigeria, you'll find a lot of Indian (and to a slightly lesser degree American) movies besides the output of a growing local industry.

It really isn't just that Hollywood is so strong that everyone has to follow it. Like it or not, people pretty much anywhere else are more cosmopolitan in their consumption of popular culture than Westerners.

- - - Updated - - -

Neofascist violence as evidence that the refugees are dangerous?

Migrants dying because closed borders forced them on leaky boats as evidence that the borders need to be closed?

Even you can do better than that!

These are not so much examples of refugees being dangerous, as they are examples of unchecked immigration policies being dangerous.

In other words, your solution to right-wing terrorism is to yield to the terrorists' demands?

You know tasting real political influence is only going to make them bolder?

Common sense, really.

No, what I'm saying is that the neofacism in Sweden is a byproduct of Swedish political culture that feeds these groups. A bit part of it have been the Swedish immigration policies. But capitulating to their demands unconditionally is not a solution; changing the culture so that people's concerns are heard and addressed is what would remove the major appeal of these fringe groups.

If everyone who criticizes unchecked immigration is labeled a neo-nazi racist, don't be surprised if actual neo-nazi racists gain popularity.

 

[Jokodo]

No, what I'm saying is that the neofacism in Sweden is a byproduct of Swedish political culture that feeds these groups. A bit part of it have been the Swedish immigration policies. But capitulating to their demands unconditionally is not a solution; changing the culture so that people's concerns are heard and addressed is what would remove the major appeal of these fringe groups.

If everyone who criticizes unchecked immigration is labeled a neo-nazi racist, don't be surprised if actual neo-nazi racists gain popularity.

Their concers are heard. People just don't agree with them. Among 24 countries polled in a poll conducted earlier in 2015, Sweden has the highest number of people who explicitly disagree with the statement that "Immigration is causing my country to change in ways that I don’t like" (46%), and the lowest number who agree (36%) among countries with significant immigrant populations, the remainder being undecided.

http://ipsos-na.com/download/pr.aspx?id=14710

Addressing the concerns of a minority out of fear that their fringes will resort to terrorism is yielding to terrorists' threats.

And even if the numbers were different - even if "concerned citizens" had a plurality - that still wouldn't change the fact that Europe is under threat from "concerned citizens", not from immigrants.

 

[angelo]

Have you looked into treatments?

Repeating paranoid statements again and again with slightly different words does not make them any less irrational.

While some who oppose unrestricted immigration may be racist, bigoted or anti Christian or whatever, we must forget that we are putting our security at risk.

British MI5 has issued one warning. While it is common knowledge ISIS wishes to plan mass attacks all over Europe, the concern now is are there sufficient resources to do this.
9/11 strategy involved careful planning and the seizing of resources.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...mass-attack-on-Britain-warns-head-of-MI5.html


Islamic State terrorists are planning mass casualty attacks in Britain the head of MI5 has warned.
Andrew Parker, director general of the security agency, said threats from homegrown jihadis who want to fight for the militant movement showed no sign of abating.
He also publicly admitted for the first time that MI5 had to carry out computer hacking attacks against terror networks to crack their communications.


Delivering the Lord Mayor of London’s annual defence and security lecture, he said the current level of threat was the highest he had seen in a career spanning 32-years. In the past 12 months his agency has thwarted six terror plots in the UK and another seven abroad.


Mr Parker said four fifths of the 4,000-strong agency’s resources were directed at stopping terrorist attacks, with an increasing proportion of them linked to Syria and Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil sophisticated exploitation of technology.”

AND

He went on: “We have thwarted six attempts at terrorist attacks in the UK in the last year, and several plots overseas.
“It may not yet have reached the high water mark, and despite the successes we have had, we can never be confident of stopping everything. The death of 31 British nationals in the Sousse attacks in June was an appalling reminder of the threat.”
The scale of the threat meant MI5 had to update its “toolbox” of methods to fight terrorists, including using computer attacks.

So maybe one day once a few attacks have taken place and we elect an inert government which is not paralysed with ineptitude we may even keep those without ID in detention centres until their ID is established. That would be a start.

Another start would be for Turkey to actually stop letting Britons into Syria through its checkpoints. However that is not likley to happen soon
Then who join ISIS, it should be a one way ticket.

Most leftards would call Andrew a racist and islamphobe!

 

[angelo]

While some who oppose unrestricted immigration may be racist, bigoted or anti Christian or whatever, we must forget that we are putting our security at risk.

British MI5 has issued one warning. While it is common knowledge ISIS wishes to plan mass attacks all over Europe, the concern now is are there sufficient resources to do this.
9/11 strategy involved careful planning and the seizing of resources.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...mass-attack-on-Britain-warns-head-of-MI5.html


Islamic State terrorists are planning mass casualty attacks in Britain the head of MI5 has warned.
Andrew Parker, director general of the security agency, said threats from homegrown jihadis who want to fight for the militant movement showed no sign of abating.
He also publicly admitted for the first time that MI5 had to carry out computer hacking attacks against terror networks to crack their communications.


Delivering the Lord Mayor of London’s annual defence and security lecture, he said the current level of threat was the highest he had seen in a career spanning 32-years. In the past 12 months his agency has thwarted six terror plots in the UK and another seven abroad.


Mr Parker said four fifths of the 4,000-strong agency’s resources were directed at stopping terrorist attacks, with an increasing proportion of them linked to Syria and Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil sophisticated exploitation of technology.”

AND

He went on: “We have thwarted six attempts at terrorist attacks in the UK in the last year, and several plots overseas.
“It may not yet have reached the high water mark, and despite the successes we have had, we can never be confident of stopping everything. The death of 31 British nationals in the Sousse attacks in June was an appalling reminder of the threat.”
The scale of the threat meant MI5 had to update its “toolbox” of methods to fight terrorists, including using computer attacks.

So maybe one day once a few attacks have taken place and we elect an inert government which is not paralysed with ineptitude we may even keep those without ID in detention centres until their ID is established. That would be a start.

Another start would be for Turkey to actually stop letting Britons into Syria through its checkpoints. However that is not likley to happen soon
Then who join ISIS, it should be a one way ticket.

Your evidence of a threat from non-immigrants does nothing to suggest that immigrants are a problem.

This makes as much sense as saying that you are terrified of spiders, and using a warning about shark attacks to justify your fear.

Any person with an open mind would at least look at these figures. It doesn't bode well for the future when there may be more than 20-40% increase in a moslem population in EU.
https://muslimstatistics.wordpress....-of-extremists-argument-muslim-opinion-polls/

 

[angelo]

So children, while many here have fiddled playing us childish tunes of the rosy future of Western Europe, even for Sweden and Germany, the future has arrived, and every week and month it mocks the board's would be Neros...when will this embarrassing and shameless denial end?

Just in the last week, these news stories:

Refugees refusing to leave bus in 'too cold' Swedish village to be removed
The Guardian‎ - 6 hours ago

A man checks a map of Sweden after arriving at Malmo train station in Sweden in ...

The Latest: 2 more migrants dead on Greek island of Lesbos
Yahoo News‎ - 2 hours ago

The Latest: After more than 20 blazes, Sweden to keep location of refugee housing secret
Fox News‎ - 2 days ago

An Attack and an Identity Crisis in Sweden
The New Yorker-Oct 23, 2015

A racially motivated attack at a school in Sweden has shaken a country already experiencing a clash of ideals over immigration.

Swedish killer sought victims by skin color at school
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette-Oct 23, 2015

Deadly school stabbing highlights racial tensions in Sweden
Yahoo News-Oct 24, 2015

Sweden school attack: killer Anton Lundin Pettersson glorified Nazis ...
South China Morning Post (subscription)-Oct 23, 2015

Teacher killed, pupils hurt in sword attack on Sweden school
Opinion-The Express Tribune-Oct 22, 2015

Swedish police say school attack was racist, as refugee rules ...
In-Depth-The Guardian-Oct 23, 2015

Since mass moslem migration to Sweden, rape has gone up by a staggering 1.200%. Enough said!

 

[Jayjay]

No, what I'm saying is that the neofacism in Sweden is a byproduct of Swedish political culture that feeds these groups. A bit part of it have been the Swedish immigration policies. But capitulating to their demands unconditionally is not a solution; changing the culture so that people's concerns are heard and addressed is what would remove the major appeal of these fringe groups.

If everyone who criticizes unchecked immigration is labeled a neo-nazi racist, don't be surprised if actual neo-nazi racists gain popularity.

Their concers are heard. People just don't agree with them. Among 24 countries polled in a poll conducted earlier in 2015, Sweden has the highest number of people who explicitly disagree with the statement that "Immigration is causing my country to change in ways that I don’t like" (46%), and the lowest number who agree (36%) among countries with significant immigrant populations, the remainder being undecided.

http://ipsos-na.com/download/pr.aspx?id=14710

Addressing the concerns of a minority out of fear that their fringes will resort to terrorism is yielding to terrorists' threats.

And even if the numbers were different - even if "concerned citizens" had a plurality - that still wouldn't change the fact that Europe is under threat from "concerned citizens", not from immigrants.

The poll numbers of how many disagree or agree isn't reflective of the problem, as much as polarization of those opinions. In the particular question, "Immigration is changing my country in ways I don't like", you'll see that the number of middle answers ("Neither agree nor disagree") for Sweden is the second smallest (14%), only beaten by Turkey where only 9% are undecided.

When a minority feels that they are being screwed over by a majority, they tend to feed extremism. You can see the same phenomenon in violence perpetrated by muslim minorities. You have a few actual terrorists, but a much larger disenfranchised group that tacitly supports some of the same ideas.

 

[angelo]

In the fourth century AD the Romans allowed large numbers of Goths to enter their territory as refugees.
The result was the sacking of Rome and the end to a 1000 year empire. History has a bad habit of repeating itself for those who fail to learn from it!