Europe submits voluntarily

[Jokodo]

Can you please make it a habit to read more than the first sentence and a half before replying to a post? This would greatly increase the quality of discussions.

A 400% increase in rape reports recorded by police does not equal a 400% increase in rapes.

There was a gradual increase in reports from 858 per year in the late 70s, to 1,303 in the late 80s, to 1,729 in the late 90s, which may or may not reflect an actual increase in rapes. Just as likely, it reports a decrease in the rate of underreporting as victims became more confident in the police being on their side. Then there was a leap to 4,208 reports in 2006, which is explained by a broadening of the legal definition of rape to include cases that would not have been counted earlier.

None of this suggests that the actual number of rapes has increased anywhere near 400%, or indeed at all.

I suppose this is just islamphobia!
https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/07/27/a-look-at-statistics-sweden-a-raped-country/

It may or may not be islamophobia, but if it takes the crude numbers of reported rapes and compares them with other countries as if that were a meaningful exercise, it certainly is studidity.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Sweden is starting to feel the strain as reality sets in;

In the long run our system will collapse in Sweden

She's not talking about society as a whole. She's talking specifically about our system for handling migration. Which is a stupid and inefficient system. It's good if it collapses. We forbidd those seeking asylum to get a job while they do it. For no reasonable reason. And then we use the police force to try to stop those who do get jobs anyway from working. It makes no sense at all and needs to change.

It is also overly labour intensive and requires spies being sent to the refugees home country to find evidence that corroborated the story. For every refugee. An incredibly expensive system. Stupid as fuck

 

[DrZoidberg]

That's an odd way to formulate it. Syria and Afghanistan is sending Europe adult free labour. The whole cost of raising them has been taken by someone else. These refugees will of course only add to Britains wealth helping them to look after the poor and elderly. Studies show that it isn't even a net cost short term. It's all on the plus side. Basically it's free money. This debate isn't about money. The debate is about culture. Ie, how threatened should we feel about kebab consumption skyrocketing and that new mosques are being built.

Further there are security risks given that a person can legally stay in the UK if he or she has no ID.

Hardly a major problem. A nuisance at the most.

By the way quite a few immigrants are wary also of the rate in which people are pouring in.

This is an interesting quirk in human psychology. Foreigners can also be xenophobic of other foreigners. Even from their own home country. Culture and identity is fluid. Immigrants pretty quickly turn into a new category of identity as a blend of the two cultures. What's the most bizarre is that the further down a person is on the social ladder, the more xenophobic they tend to be. And since immigrants always take up the bottom rung on the social ladder in any country, means that the most xenophobic are the same type of people as the ones they're xenophic about. It's bizarre. But just the way people are. If you rank homophobia in a society, those at the very bottom of society are always the most homophobic, even though that's the one group who better than any other should realise how unfair and damaging xenophobia can be.

So basically... doesn't mean anything. It just means that these immigrants are behaving like people do generally.

Immigration from inside Europe is showing surplus Immigration from outside Europei is running into several billions of pounds.
If someone is on the dole who pays for his kebab consumption?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ion-from-outside-Europe-cost-120-billion.html
Britain is living in a deficit of hundreds of billions generated from within the UK and from outside.

So to boom the economy all you need to do is import one million immigrants or so a to look after the old
Guess what Immigrants get old too.It's an amazing point but absolutely true. So I guess we can import another million to look after that million plus more to look after the rest.
Pay more for such jobs, and use local people who earn more then they do if they are unemployed. Then we can import labour only as necessary.

I suggest reading that link you sent more carefully. It actually supports what I'm saying.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Can you please make it a habit to read more than the first sentence and a half before replying to a post? This would greatly increase the quality of discussions.

A 400% increase in rape reports recorded by police does not equal a 400% increase in rapes.

There was a gradual increase in reports from 858 per year in the late 70s, to 1,303 in the late 80s, to 1,729 in the late 90s, which may or may not reflect an actual increase in rapes. Just as likely, it reports a decrease in the rate of underreporting as victims became more confident in the police being on their side. Then there was a leap to 4,208 reports in 2006, which is explained by a broadening of the legal definition of rape to include cases that would not have been counted earlier.

None of this suggests that the actual number of rapes has increased anywhere near 400%, or indeed at all.

I suppose this is just islamphobia!
https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/07/27/a-look-at-statistics-sweden-a-raped-country/

Yes. Everything about that web site screams Islamophobia. Not to mention the language.

BTW, Snaphanen's has been revealed. She's a conspiracy theory nutter who has been writing crazy as fuck articles for forty years straight on a variety of topics. But all being about some vague threat about to destroy our society unless we do something about it now and stop it. She rose to semi-fame in the 80'it's when she claimed that the stuff they used to fix teeth then "amalgam" caused led poisoning. She was quite successful and caused quite the public outcry. Too bad it was pseudo scientiffic nonsense and was nationally laughed at when real doctors and scientists were asked.

Claims she is allergic to electricity and lives alone out in the woods. Still manages to maintain a website somehow.

And she's been revealed as a fraud many times. Lying about everything and anything.

The fact that she is cited is well... interesting.

"Politiskt inkorrect" is a racist web site. If I remember correctly they are Neo Nazis. Also cited. It's quite an article you posted a link to

 

[angelo]

This also racist and islamphobe?
http://www.allenbwest.com/2015/10/m...u-why-sweden-is-now-rape-capital-of-the-west/

 

[DrZoidberg]

This also racist and islamphobe?
http://www.allenbwest.com/2015/10/m...u-why-sweden-is-now-rape-capital-of-the-west/

Obviously. I've already explained why Sweden's rape statistic is complete bullshit and doesn't prove anything. Which would be obvious to anybody who actually cared about reality and did a little homework. The only conclusion is that this guy either hasn't or is simply just lying to make a (racist/Islamophobic) point.

 

[angelo]

It's all an anti moslem conspiracy isn't it! Islam is such a peaceful religion! Moslems are so peaceful that they volunteer to welcome people at airports and such with flowers and other mementos. The rapes and beheading aren't done by Moslems but by Hindus masquerading as moslems . No, it's all a Jewish conspiracy to make moslems look bad!

 

[bigfield]

It's all an anti moslem conspiracy isn't it! Islam is such a peaceful religion! Moslems are so peaceful that they volunteer to welcome people at airports and such with flowers and other mementos. The rapes and beheading aren't done by Moslems but by Hindus masquerading as moslems . No, it's all a Jewish conspiracy to make moslems look bad!

You forgot the [/nutcase] tag at the end.

 

[DrZoidberg]

It's all an anti moslem conspiracy isn't it! Islam is such a peaceful religion! Moslems are so peaceful that they volunteer to welcome people at airports and such with flowers and other mementos. The rapes and beheading aren't done by Moslems but by Hindus masquerading as moslems . No, it's all a Jewish conspiracy to make moslems look bad!

Black and white think much?

Here's a reliable news resource explaining Sweden's high rape number

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372

A note: it should be obvious to anyone who stops to think about it. Conclusion, the people who claims Sweden has a high rape rate haven't stopped to think about it. Why do you think that is? Could it be Islamophobia? A desperate attempt to find some evidence that Islamic immigration leads to an increase in some crime as to prove some point? The reality is of course that Muslims are like people are everywhere. Some are cunts. Most are fine.

 

[Jayjay]

Sweden is starting to feel the strain as reality sets in;

In the long run our system will collapse in Sweden

She's not talking about society as a whole. She's talking specifically about our system for handling migration. Which is a stupid and inefficient system. It's good if it collapses. We forbidd those seeking asylum to get a job while they do it. For no reasonable reason. And then we use the police force to try to stop those who do get jobs anyway from working. It makes no sense at all and needs to change.

It is also overly labour intensive and requires spies being sent to the refugees home country to find evidence that corroborated the story. For every refugee. An incredibly expensive system. Stupid as fuck

It would be much simpler to just put the burden of proof on the asylum seeker and deport anyone who doesn't have sufficient documentation that they come from a war-afflicted area.

As for jobs, I thought in Sweden it was possible to work immediately? That's one of the things Finland is trying to copy.

 

[laughing dog]

It's all an anti moslem conspiracy isn't it! Islam is such a peaceful religion! Moslems are so peaceful that they volunteer to welcome people at airports and such with flowers and other mementos. The rapes and beheading aren't done by Moslems but by Hindus masquerading as moslems . No, it's all a Jewish conspiracy to make moslems look bad!

Those type of over-the-top generalizations send an unintended and opposite meaning to most disinterested readers.

 

[Jokodo]

She's not talking about society as a whole. She's talking specifically about our system for handling migration. Which is a stupid and inefficient system. It's good if it collapses. We forbidd those seeking asylum to get a job while they do it. For no reasonable reason. And then we use the police force to try to stop those who do get jobs anyway from working. It makes no sense at all and needs to change.

It is also overly labour intensive and requires spies being sent to the refugees home country to find evidence that corroborated the story. For every refugee. An incredibly expensive system. Stupid as fuck

It would be much simpler to just put the burden of proof on the asylum seeker and deport anyone who doesn't have sufficient documentation that they come from a war-afflicted area.<snip>

Ever heard of in dubio pro reo?

 

[DrZoidberg]

She's not talking about society as a whole. She's talking specifically about our system for handling migration. Which is a stupid and inefficient system. It's good if it collapses. We forbidd those seeking asylum to get a job while they do it. For no reasonable reason. And then we use the police force to try to stop those who do get jobs anyway from working. It makes no sense at all and needs to change.

It is also overly labour intensive and requires spies being sent to the refugees home country to find evidence that corroborated the story. For every refugee. An incredibly expensive system. Stupid as fuck

It would be much simpler to just put the burden of proof on the asylum seeker and deport anyone who doesn't have sufficient documentation that they come from a war-afflicted area.

Exactly.

As for jobs, I thought in Sweden it was possible to work immediately? That's one of the things Finland is trying to copy.

It isn't saying much. Finland has always ducked even more than Sweden when dealing with immigration

 

[DrZoidberg]

It would be much simpler to just put the burden of proof on the asylum seeker and deport anyone who doesn't have sufficient documentation that they come from a war-afflicted area.<snip>

Ever heard of in dubio pro reo?

Sure. But sometimes efficiency trumps fairness? Sometimes the aim for fairness just leads to a collossal waste of time and everybody loses. USA solves that problem simply by having a lottery. A brilliant and cheap compromise. No it isn't fair. But then again. Neither is life

 

[Jokodo]

Ever heard of in dubio pro reo?

Sure. But sometimes efficiency trumps fairness? Sometimes the aim for fairness just leads to a collossal waste of time and everybody loses. USA solves that problem simply by having a lottery. A brilliant and cheap compromise. No it isn't fair. But then again. Neither is life

You know what would be even more efficient? Define "war-afflicted area" so narrowly that it doesn't count if the bombs only fell on your neighbour's house, or on yours while your were away anyway! We can automatically reject everyone who still has all limbs, problem solved!

 

[Trausti]

 

[whichphilosophy]

That's an odd way to formulate it. Syria and Afghanistan is sending Europe adult free labour. The whole cost of raising them has been taken by someone else. These refugees will of course only add to Britains wealth helping them to look after the poor and elderly. Studies show that it isn't even a net cost short term. It's all on the plus side. Basically it's free money. This debate isn't about money. The debate is about culture. Ie, how threatened should we feel about kebab consumption skyrocketing and that new mosques are being built.

Further there are security risks given that a person can legally stay in the UK if he or she has no ID.

Hardly a major problem. A nuisance at the most.

By the way quite a few immigrants are wary also of the rate in which people are pouring in.

This is an interesting quirk in human psychology. Foreigners can also be xenophobic of other foreigners. Even from their own home country. Culture and identity is fluid. Immigrants pretty quickly turn into a new category of identity as a blend of the two cultures. What's the most bizarre is that the further down a person is on the social ladder, the more xenophobic they tend to be. And since immigrants always take up the bottom rung on the social ladder in any country, means that the most xenophobic are the same type of people as the ones they're xenophic about. It's bizarre. But just the way people are. If you rank homophobia in a society, those at the very bottom of society are always the most homophobic, even though that's the one group who better than any other should realise how unfair and damaging xenophobia can be.

So basically... doesn't mean anything. It just means that these immigrants are behaving like people do generally.

Immigration from inside Europe is showing surplus Immigration from outside Europei is running into several billions of pounds.
If someone is on the dole who pays for his kebab consumption?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ion-from-outside-Europe-cost-120-billion.html
Britain is living in a deficit of hundreds of billions generated from within the UK and from outside.

So to boom the economy all you need to do is import one million immigrants or so a to look after the old
Guess what Immigrants get old too.It's an amazing point but absolutely true. So I guess we can import another million to look after that million plus more to look after the rest.
Pay more for such jobs, and use local people who earn more then they do if they are unemployed. Then we can import labour only as necessary.

I suggest reading that link you sent more carefully. It actually supports what I'm saying.

Immigration from within the EU is benefitting the UK. From outside the UK it is not
There are plus points. However the overall result is a cost in terms of billions.

 

[whichphilosophy]

The Syrians I worked with are often very light, even European looking. Perhaps not all in the bottom picture are Syrians. In fact two on the bottom left seem to look more like my Indian colleagues.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The Syrians I worked with are often very light, even European looking. Perhaps not all in the bottom picture are Syrians. In fact two on the bottom left seem to look more like my Indian colleagues.

I don't think the point of the picture was skin color, but what condition they are in.

 

[angelo]

It's all an anti moslem conspiracy isn't it! Islam is such a peaceful religion! Moslems are so peaceful that they volunteer to welcome people at airports and such with flowers and other mementos. The rapes and beheading aren't done by Moslems but by Hindus masquerading as moslems . No, it's all a Jewish conspiracy to make moslems look bad!

Black and white think much?

Here's a reliable news resource explaining Sweden's high rape number

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372

A note: it should be obvious to anyone who stops to think about it. Conclusion, the people who claims Sweden has a high rape rate haven't stopped to think about it. Why do you think that is? Could it be Islamophobia? A desperate attempt to find some evidence that Islamic immigration leads to an increase in some crime as to prove some point? The reality is of course that Muslims are like people are everywhere. Some are cunts. Most are fine.

A play on words as well as on figures. That article doesn't refute the extraordinary rise of rapes in Sweden.