Federal troops helping suppress protests in Portland OR

[Treedbear]

Several news outlets are reporting that strange camo dressed federal officers are pulling people off the street who are just peaceful protesters. They are being detained and later released.

Is this the Pinocheting of America?


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...ZC1VZJU9duH_ATXzAGxjvQeYBVL08XgZs6Cex9tRphec8

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a33347230/portland-oregon-protesters-detained/

Seriously. What the fuck is going on? Is this a dress rehearsal for what we can expect the Trump Administration to do if it loses the election?

The thing is is, Trump is threatening to begin doing this across America -

“I’m going to do something — that, I can tell you,” Mr. Trump told reporters in the Oval Office. “Because we’re not going to let New York and Chicago and Philadelphia and Detroit and Baltimore and all of these — Oakland is a mess. We’re not going to let this happen in our country. All run by liberal Democrats.”

 

[Angry Floof]

Aside from your strawman form of question, you would not know the now ex-gun control advocate Democrats that I know who bought weapons if I named them and I wouldn't out them anyway. They are still Democrats but no longer anti-gun. Their fear has nothing to do with "black people invading their homes". Their fear is the multi-racial radicals (overwhelmingly white) who are burning shops, seeing the police not controlling the destruction, and the call to reduce the police forces that they had relied on to respond if they ever had to call.

Again, that is a right wing fantasy. No "die hard Democrat" would be spending much time exposed to such propaganda, much less allowing it to hijack their animal brain and turn off their frontal lobes to that extent. They are more likely afraid of the police and Trump's federal thugs, if they're truly afraid of anything regarding wanton violence in our country.

It really sounds like you're just making stuff up or at the very least exaggerating to make it appear that right wing fear mongering is a reality that even "die hard Democrats" would buy into it.

You are too warped by ideology to know how most of the world lives. Right-wingnuts and left-wingnuts are the most vociferous so get most news coverage, but even combined, are a minority of the American people. Most real people (dem., rep., and lib.) get along fine, calmly discuss politics, and accept each other's political leanings.

Your "us vs. them" mentality is sick.

Both sides are not the same. Our polarized politics reflect human minds. They don't exist outside of what our minds create. Cognitive, perceptive, and psychological spectrums are not the same on either end. There's not equal tendency toward violence on both ends. There's not closed mindedness on both ends. Both ends are not steeped in fear. Both ends are not authority-worshiping.

At this particular point in time, everyone may be behaving badly under stressful circumstances, but not all of us, I would say less than half of us, are subsumed to an authoritarian "law and order" cult. Not all of us have the same tendency for animal brain fear aggression. Not all of us believe whatever we hear as long as it appeals to our prejudices. At this particular point in time in the U.S., it is the Dem party that most closely represents principles of fairness, critical thinking, and a working sense of right and wrong.

That could change, of course, as ideologies change and morph just as people's minds do. After all, ideologies are products of our minds. Hell, in Australia, they call their right wing authoritarian political cult the Liberal Party. Funny how tribal names rarely tell you anything about the tribe. You have to look at what they stand for. Do they allow power and authority to be punitive and without accountability? Do they stick up for the powerless? Do they live in a mindscape where minorities are savages taking over their white washed world? For now, in the United States, as I said, the Dem party most closely reflects actual American values of equality under the law and humane principles.

Both sides are not the same. Right wing extremism is way more violent, way more heartless, way more bigoted, way more scared, way more frightened of the world outside their ideological bubble, way more likely to absorb whatever their authority figures tell them and act on that information indiscriminately. I could go on.

Your cartoon of "die hard Democrats" buying firearms to defend themselves against a right wing fear fantasy doesn't hold water. It's comical, in fact.

 

[Angry Floof]

Still wondering why we're not seeing second amendment, small govt, anti-tyranny well organized militia waddling out of their trailers and moms' basements ready and willing to stand up against a tyrannical govt and protect American citizens from being brutalized and disappeared by federal goons.

Oh, that's right. They never actually held anything like principles against tyranny. Just tribalism, where tyranny is fine if it's coming from their tribal authority figure and aimed at all those groups of people they've been trained to hate and fear. Fucking cowardly morons.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Let's see them come to an Open Carry state and try that.
"Armed man without identification attempts to kidnap a citizen"... In Colorado, that is the third listed provision for the use of deadly force.. to stop a kidnapping (first is to stop a murder, second is to stop a rape, third is to stop a kidnapping).

That wouldn't work very well against a group.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

nope. There is no fourth. The "Make my Day" law (Castle Doctrine implementation in CO) requires you are on your own property (unlike in TX where "Stand your Ground" is assignable to your neighbor), and further that an ADDITIONAL crime is being committed WHILE the trespass is occuring. And that is the end of justifiable deadly force in my state.
IOW, you cannot shoot someone for breaking into your home... until they start stealing things or threatening anyone... but you can (and should) shoot someone for attempting to murder, rape or kidnap someone. Failure to clearly identify through markings and / or verbal announcement while restraining and detaining someone, is kidnapping... an offense for which Colorado defenders can and will use extreme force to stop. They need only identify themselves / their agency and make verbally clear the source of their authority to avoid justifiably being killed by a good samaritan.

I am waiting to see if anything happens to that couple in St. Louis. The mob had broken through the gate and were threatening to take over their home, kill them and their dog. The couple got their rifle and pistol to repel the mob, never leaving their property. The weapons did repel the mob but the DA is now threatening to bring charges against the couple, but not anyone in the threatening mob.

Oh yes, the couple did call 911 but were told that the police would not show up to protect them.

Put down the remote!

Step away from the Faux Noise!

Look at what really happened--they were under no threat whatsoever. The protesters were simply walking down the street, heading elsewhere. This is brandishing a firearm, they should be prosecuted for it. Look at her weapon handling--she should never have a gun.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

As I understand the defund idea, that money would just go directly to the services that police do but shouldn't be providing.

You don't need a gun to take a report.

And, of course, you are psychic so know which domestic dispute call will require only a social worker to respond and make a report and which turns out to be one where one of the party has a shotgun to the head of the other and requires a bit more to resolve.

Must be nice to be able to predict what the person responding will find when they get there... saves a lot of investigation and manpower.

Not being psychic so not knowing what a responder will have to deal with is the reason a call for the fire department results in a full team with hoses, pumps, trucks, fire fighting equipment showing up when one person with a hand held fire extinguisher was all that turned out to be needed.

Are you being serious? You don't think there are plenty of clear cases where cops are not necessary?

Monday morning quarterback again.

We often don't know the whole story when the call comes in.

 

[Angry Floof]

Are you being serious? You don't think there are plenty of clear cases where cops are not necessary?

Monday morning quarterback again.

We often don't know the whole story when the call comes in.

You seem to think you know enough of the story to consistently side with authority.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Are you being serious? You don't think there are plenty of clear cases where cops are not necessary?

After the fact... absolutely it is easy to determine that the cop wasn't needed.

Only after the fact? So, in every case when a cop is called, there is a potential situation requiring violence? That sure sounds wrong. And biased

The point is we don't know.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Hospitals deal this sort of stuff all the time. They don't end in fatalities. Your argument that sending in cops by default after they've taken a course in killology is asinine and very out of touch.

911 receives a call reporting a loud fight next door... a typical domestic violence call. Do you send a social worker? What will they encounter... two old senior citizens screaming at each other over which TV program to watch or maybe several armed people in a real melee, maybe a home intruder fighting with a woman trying to rape her?

Believe it or not, police officers are trained in social work too. I know a couple old retired cops who say that they have never fired their weapons except on the target range.

Yup. When my grandfather died my mother called it in, telling them he was dead. They rolled police, ambulance and paramedics--for someone that was cold and in rigor mortis. The point is they didn't know the report was accurate.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Actually domestic violence calls are the most dangerous calls police respond to.

I've heard that said too but I think it is likely because most cops have had to respond to such calls and occasionally had a bad experience or knew a fellow cop that had a bad experience. Most cops never experience what I would consider much more dangerous calls like 'active shooter calls' or maybe busting an illegal drug factory.

I've also heard that traffic stops can be dangerous. The driver could be a criminal with outstanding warrants that doesn't want to go to jail or any number of situations where the driver is a 'bad dude'.

It's not just a matter of perception, it's reality..

All too often when someone is being beaten on they'll still defend their partner from the cops.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Since it is difficult to convince potential abusers to announce their plans in advance to the police, I would suggest hiring psychic 911 operators. If they 'sense' that the disturbance is a mother and son loudly arguing about the son cleaning his room then they can dispatch a social worker to negotiate a resolution. If they 'sense' the disturbance is a home invasion then they can dispatch the police.

or, you know, if the caller says the disturbance is a mother and son loudly arguing about the son cleaning his room then they can dispatch a social worker to negotiate a resolution.

And people always tell the truth when calling the police??

Sorry, but when it's mental health they often do not--they're in denial about how bad the situation is. They also deliberately downplay the problem at times to try to keep the police from using force.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You believe their BS story about the 'mob'? The video(s) (who you gonna believe, me, or your lyin eyes?) clearly show the protesters in the street, which is public property.

It isn't a public street. It was a private road and the mob broke down an iron gate across it to get into the property.

If you listen carefully to the video you can hear some of the threats being made by that mob.

I already told you to step away from Faux Noise.

The gate wasn't broken at the time.

 

[ZiprHead]

Are you being serious? You don't think there are plenty of clear cases where cops are not necessary?

Monday morning quarterback again.

We often don't know the whole story when the call comes in.

Recently down in Florida, there was a case of a kangaroo that got loose. 4 cop cars showed up to rope the animal and take it to animal control. Who couldn't that have been handled by animal control from start to finish?

 

[steve_bank]

Last night there was a demonstration that by all accounts was peaceful.

When they left anoter group came in immediately attcking busness, harassing people, and painting grafitee.

A store was set on fire.

Someone in my building was in a QFC supermarket near the center. The store ordered everybody out and locked the doors. He got on the Broadway streetcar to get back home but it was stuck there for 39 minutes. Rioters, not demonstrators, were banging on the streetcar.

As far as I am concerned bring in the National Guard to regain control of the streets.

It seems clear with what is going on in Seattle and Portland it is clear there is a coordinated effort to keep the chos going. Anachists and oters have alwaysbeen lurking and are using the opportunity.

Every year since the WTO in the 90s ANIFA and Blac Block show in their black Ninja clothes with improvised weapns and fire bombs.

The actions of federal agents in Portland is cleasrly illegal, they have no autirity to enforce local laws, only direct violations of federal law.

The media is highlighting the federal actions as abuse, and rightly so. But still no real criticism and calls for action to retore order.


Tonight a small demonstration passed our building. Someone with a mid eastern voice was shouting free a number of Arab prisoners followed by 'we say what justice is'.

The sad part of it is that all the good feelings that developed quickly will erode as violence continues.

Portend's mayor said demonstrators will not be arrested when things het out of control. Thwart says it all.

If this were white rights wing protestors it would be put down quickly.

Media is focused rightly on Trunp's abuse of power, but ;lack of tgrasparency and violence is hetting a pass on the streets.

For one thing suppression of the press by demonstrators/rioters.

 

[horhangi]

Are you being serious? You don't think there are plenty of clear cases where cops are not necessary?

Monday morning quarterback again.

We often don't know the whole story when the call comes in.

Recently down in Florida, there was a case of a kangaroo that got loose. 4 cop cars showed up to rope the animal and take it to animal control. Who couldn't that have been handled by animal control from start to finish?

Well in my city, animal control will not deal with anything but cats and dogs. Had possums and skunks in my yard and the best “animal control” would offer was to rent me some traps. They would not even come and collect the critters once caught.....

 

[ZiprHead]

Recently down in Florida, there was a case of a kangaroo that got loose. 4 cop cars showed up to rope the animal and take it to animal control. Who couldn't that have been handled by animal control from start to finish?

Well in my city, animal control will not deal with anything but cats and dogs. Had possums and skunks in my yard and the best “animal control” would offer was to rent me some traps. They would not even come and collect the critters once caught.....

Possums and skunks are native to the area so I can understand why they won't come out for those animals. Kangaroos are not. I understand the owner was charged with possessing an illegal animal.

 

[Angry Floof]

Last night there was a demonstration that by all accounts was peaceful.

When they left anoter group came in immediately attcking busness, harassing people, and painting grafitee.

A store was set on fire.

Someone in my building was in a QFC supermarket near the center. The store ordered everybody out and locked the doors. He got on the Broadway streetcar to get back home but it was stuck there for 39 minutes. Rioters, not demonstrators, were banging on the streetcar.

As far as I am concerned bring in the National Guard to regain control of the streets.

It seems clear with what is going on in Seattle and Portland it is clear there is a coordinated effort to keep the chos going. Anachists and oters have alwaysbeen lurking and are using the opportunity.

Every year since the WTO in the 90s ANIFA and Blac Block show in their black Ninja clothes with improvised weapns and fire bombs.

The actions of federal agents in Portland is cleasrly illegal, they have no autirity to enforce local laws, only direct violations of federal law.

The media is highlighting the federal actions as abuse, and rightly so. But still no real criticism and calls for action to retore order.


Tonight a small demonstration passed our building. Someone with a mid eastern voice was shouting free a number of Arab prisoners followed by 'we say what justice is'.

The sad part of it is that all the good feelings that developed quickly will erode as violence continues.

Portend's mayor said demonstrators will not be arrested when things het out of control. Thwart says it all.

If this were white rights wing protestors it would be put down quickly.

Media is focused rightly on Trunp's abuse of power, but ;lack of tgrasparency and violence is hetting a pass on the streets.

For one thing suppression of the press by demonstrators/rioters.

Rule #1 of right wing authoritarian follower mentality: Always, always make sure ordinary citizens are held accountable. Even if you pay lip service to holding power and authority accountable, always, always add a "but" and make sure citizens get what's coming to them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Not their actual name, but BADGE # ID, 100% agree with that.

Then a subpoena to get the badge ID matched to name in the event of a misconduct investigation.

Badge number is identifying information in my book.

What I would like to see is to go farther--other than in special situations no ID, you're not a cop, any actions you take will be evaluated as if a civilian did them.

 

[lpetrich]

Asha Rangappa on Twitter: "So apparently we are now living out the movie “Minority Report,” which if you haven’t seen is a (not good) 2002 Tom Cruise movie where people who are going to commit crimes in the future get arrested (they get their info from three psychics who lie in some kind of swimming pool)" / Twitter
noting
Josh Wingrove on Twitter: "Acting DHS Secretary Chad Wolf tells Fox that they're "proactive arrest[ing] people" in Portland. https://t.co/eM8aAg6hPq" / Twitter

Acting DHS Secretary Chad Wolf tells Fox that they're "proactive arrest[ing] people" in Portland.

"Because we don't have that local support, that local law enforcement support, we are having to go out and proactively arrest individuals, and we need to do that because we need to hold them accountable," Wolf said.

"This idea that they can attack federal property and law enforcement officers and go to the other side of the street and say 'you can't touch me' is ridiculous. We don't do that in any type of law enforcement."

The backstory: the DHS officers in Portland are ostensibly there to defend the courthouse, ie: they've been seconded to the federal agency that normally does that and it's within their turf.

They're also allowed to pursue/investigate, and that's where the questions are raised.

The viral video of a guy being tossed into a vehicle and driven away raised a lot of questions. DHS said they did that to question the man, who was later released.

Obviously, at least, that's a possible violation of the constitution - tossing someone in a van to question them.

*proactively, gah

An aside: Wolf and Mark Morgan held a press conference today where each specifically objected to press reports characterizing the Portland situation as draconian or fascist.

Wolf said "they are not the Gestapo" and Morgan said it's "disgusting" to call them "storm troopers."

And: in a (lengthy) thread on the guy seized and taken away in the van, as captured in the viral video, a Harvard law professor argues that the feds essentially admitted today that they didn't have grounds to do that and thus it was unlawful.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So he's officially declaring war on the Democratic Party? With, like, soldiers and guns? We gonna do something about that, or what?

For the first time in my life, I'm thinking about purchasing a firearm and getting a conceal carry permit.

I hate this fucking timeline.

You can't realistically defend yourself against the gestapo because they come in packs.