Feminist Gamer Journalist Targeted For Terrorist Attack

[Arctish]

A guy named Boogie...

Uh huh

How many specific women gamers, journalists and/or actors have been directly threatened with rape and violence? By whom?

Oh, right, screw him, he isn't important enough for you. Or it is just a numbers game for you? It is OK to threaten men as long as more women are being threatened?

That is absolutely sick.

edit: Of course if you had actually clicked the link, you would see that his wife was the one threatened. So that counts right!!
edit2: My second line may have been a little harsh before, implying you were sick, rather than the view I inferred you held was sick. I'm sure you don't actually hold that view, it is just how your reply sounds.

There's no excuse for people to issue death threats, rape threats, threats of personal or professional harm, and the like for nothing more than expressing an opinion or standing up for yourself.

But Jeezy Creezy you guys! Women and gay males have been enduring this kind of harassment and bullying for years, and it's only important now that manly men are getting the same treatment? How about, instead of hunting around to find examples of straight men being threatened with emasculation or exposure, we all agree to condemn this sort of behavior no matter who is the victim? Or, if you must post about straight males being targeted, you at least try establish whether it's widespread, or if it's limited to a few isolated incidents in a sea of abuse largely targeting women and gays?

 

[Starr]

Oh, right, screw him, he isn't important enough for you. Or it is just a numbers game for you? It is OK to threaten men as long as more women are being threatened?

That is absolutely sick.

edit: Of course if you had actually clicked the link, you would see that his wife was the one threatened. So that counts right!!
edit2: My second line may have been a little harsh before, implying you were sick, rather than the view I inferred you held was sick. I'm sure you don't actually hold that view, it is just how your reply sounds.

There's no excuse for people to issue death threats, rape threats, threats of personal or professional harm, and the like for nothing more than expressing an opinion or standing up for yourself.

But Jeezy Creezy you guys! Women and gay males have been enduring this kind of harassment and bullying for years, and it's only important now that manly men are getting the same treatment? How about, instead of hunting around to find examples of straight men being threatened with emasculation or exposure, we all agree to condemn this sort of behavior no matter who is the victim? Or, if you must post about straight males being targeted, you at least try establish whether it's widespread, or if it's limited to a few isolated incidents in a sea of abuse largely targeting women and gays?

Jesus Christ, did you even bother to read my posts, I said the same damn thing you did in your first sentence.

RavenSky asked for an example, I had given one, and RavenSky brushed it off implying it didn't matter. All I did was provide what was asked for, and have it pooh pooh'd because "women have it so much worse". That may or may not be true, but it doesn't excuse brushing aside my example. Who the hell is saying we only need to worry about it now that men are the target!? No one! I didn't say it was widespread (at least threats aren't, I've seen plenty of personal attacks I thought were a thing of the 20th Century). Can you show me the ocean of threats targeting women and gays? I'm quite sure you can find examples just like I did, but you have never done a scientific study on it, and the only one I know of off the top of my head would indicate that it is not cut and dried: women are more likely to experience sexual harassment and stalking, while men are more likely to experience everything else including threats of physical violence (http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/10/22/online-harassment/). Maybe there is something wrong with that study, but if you want to claim there is "a sea of abuse largely targeting women and gays" as fact, you have to provide evidence. If that is just your opinion based on your personal observations, that is fine. That is all my opinion on the comparative treatment of GamerGaters and anti-GamerGaters is based on. Someone who took the time to fully analyze all the GamerGate activity on social media might find that the conclusions I've reached from personal observation are wrong, or they might not.

edit: I will say I do find the Pew study somewhat concerning, since the differences between males and females in the categories where men experience more harassment have a much lower differential than those where women experience more, indicating that women have it almost as bad in most areas, and significantly worse in some others.However, the differences hardly constitute an "ocean", and it wouldn't matter if they did, it is just as wrong if there is a small difference as if there is a big one. Ideally no one would be harassed at all!

 

[Enigma]

From an Erik?

No. To an Erik. Because that somehow matters.

Yeah... Ok. If you are seriously going to maintain that the misogynistic GamerGaters are justified in their violent rape threats against women who question misogyny in the games themselves because some dude named Erik gave the GGs back some of their own medicine... whatever.

No.

In case you haven't been keeping up, the only person in this thread so far who appears to be making excuses for some death and rape threats is you.

I would work on that if I were you.

If I am horribly mistaken and you would like to cite a post to the contrary, go right ahead.

 

[paladin.oa]

Remember I said I'm always ready to back up a young girl facing the misogyny of certain gamers? My joining in actually helps out the guys as much as the girls. Boys are a bit better about being shut down by a 50+ year old than they are about the same thing coming from a girl their own age. I think it has something to do with the thought of making sexual suggestions to a woman older than their mothers that squicks them out. Whatever the reason, they usually back off before an Admin gets involved and we can all get back to the reason we logged on in the first place: playing the game.

As an aside, this amuses me greatly.

 

[Axulus]

From an Erik?

Yeah... Ok. If you are seriously going to maintain that the misogynistic GamerGaters are justified in their violent rape threats against women who question misogyny in the games themselves because some dude named Erik gave the GGs back some of their own medicine... whatever.

There is the football player who has called them out too. Has called them every name in the book, then rubs their noses in the fact that none of the GamerGaters have dared "dox" or threaten him. Yeah, if you want to act like that means the GamerGaters are justified, I will simply have to disagree and say that you've totally missed the point.

- - - Updated - - -

I second the request for any source showing the GamerGate people being threatened with death, rape, etc.

Did you not see the tweet by the guy called Boogie that I linked?

A guy named Boogie...

Uh huh

How many specific women gamers, journalists and/or actors have been directly threatened with rape and violence? By whom? What did any of those women say or do to generate those threats of violence? Have any of them threatened any gamer anywhere with any sort of violence?

Holy shifting the goalposts Batman! RS asks for examples of threats of death or sexual violence against GGers by anti-GGers and, when given asked for examples, dismisses them/makes excuses for them and changes it to a numbers game (rather than thanking the poster for providing requested examples and acknowledging it and properly denouncing the actions). You are no better than those dismissing the threats against women. Your extreme bias is showing, and it is ugly.

 

[Axulus]

The university and the police have released statements stating that the threat was not credible and posed no risk:

Throughout the day, Tuesday, Oct. 14, USU police and administrators worked with state and federal law enforcement agencies to assess the threat to our USU community and Ms. Sarkeesian. Together, we determined that there was no credible threat to students, staff or the speaker, and that this letter was intended to frighten the university into cancelling the event.

The safety and protection of students and those who attend our events is our foremost priority at Utah State. But we are also an institution of higher learning. In this case, the Center for Women and Gender had invited a nationally known speaker to bring her perspective about an important topic to USU. After a full assessment of the situation, the USU administration, in consultation with law enforcement, chose to continue with the event.

http://www.usu.edu/ust/index.cfm?article=54180

POLICE: NO RISK TO STUDENTS

USU police, in conjunction with several teams of state and federal law enforcement experts, determined that there was no threat to students, staff or the speaker, so no alert was issued.

http://www.usu.edu/ust/index.cfm?article=54179

 

[RavenSky]

A guy named Boogie...

Uh huh

How many specific women gamers, journalists and/or actors have been directly threatened with rape and violence? By whom?

Oh, right, screw him, he isn't important enough for you. Or it is just a numbers game for you? It is OK to threaten men as long as more women are being threatened?

That is absolutely sick.

edit: Of course if you had actually clicked the link, you would see that his wife was the one threatened. So that counts right!!
edit2: My second line may have been a little harsh before, implying you were sick, rather than the view I inferred you held was sick. I'm sure you don't actually hold that view, it is just how your reply sounds.

You are missing my point entirely. My point is that you have a handful of women that have written about the games industry, or are themselves game developers, who have written/commented about the anti-female tropes in the games. They have not threatened people, only criticized how the games and some who play them treat women.

In return, people who have voluntarily identified themselves with the hashtags #GamerGate have threatened those same women with rape, death and other violence. There is no excuse for this reaction AT ALL EVER. And beyond the fact that they are proving the original concerns of the female journalists and gamers, they are showing themselves to be sick assholes. Even if they are *joking* or *trolling* - threatening women with rape because you don't like an opinion they hold is SICK

But now that OTHER MEN are stepping in a making threats back (seriously or jokingly - neither of which I condone), these #GamerGate people are boo hooing that the "anti-GG" people are *just as bad*. To that I say bullshit.

In a perfect world, all those who have had a friend or wife/girlfriend threatened by these GameraGate assholes would take the high road and respond in as measured tones as Anita Sarkeesian, but people aren't perfect. And this allows people like you to then claim a non-existent middle ground of "both sides are just as bad"

No, they are not.

Female journalists and gamers express their opinions about the anti-female tone of the games and industry. They do not threaten anyone with any sort of harm. Men who voluntarily identify themselves by the hashtag #GamerGate DO threaten women, specifically women, with all sorts of violence and harm. Other people, mainly men, react to those threats. That is a progression, an escalation. It is not "both sides are just as bad" therefore let's paint the original women journalists/gamers with the same brush as the GamerGate misogynists and dismiss everything they've said.

This is exactly the same progression as ElevatorGate took, and I say it is bullshit. It is a cover-up for the very real misogynists and their very real threats and actions against women in our society. I cannot believe that is really the position defenders of GamerGate want to take.

 

[RavenSky]

From an Erik?

Yeah... Ok. If you are seriously going to maintain that the misogynistic GamerGaters are justified in their violent rape threats against women who question misogyny in the games themselves because some dude named Erik gave the GGs back some of their own medicine... whatever.

There is the football player who has called them out too. Has called them every name in the book, then rubs their noses in the fact that none of the GamerGaters have dared "dox" or threaten him. Yeah, if you want to act like that means the GamerGaters are justified, I will simply have to disagree and say that you've totally missed the point.

- - - Updated - - -N

I second the request for any source showing the GamerGate people being threatened with death, rape, etc.

Did you not see the tweet by the guy called Boogie that I linked?

A guy named Boogie...

Uh huh

How many specific women gamers, journalists and/or actors have been directly threatened with rape and violence? By whom? What did any of those women say or do to generate those threats of violence? Have any of them threatened any gamer anywhere with any sort of violence?

Holy shifting the goalposts Batman! RS asks for examples of threats of death or sexual violence against GGers by anti-GGers and, when given asked for examples, dismisses them/makes excuses for them and changes it to a numbers game (rather than thanking the poster for providing requested examples and acknowledging it and properly denouncing the actions). You are no better than those dismissing the threats against women. Your extreme bias is showing, and it is ugly.

Wrong. I am not making it a numbers game. I am calling bullshit on those making it a finger-pointing "they are just as bad" game.

If the claim is that those pointing out the anti-female tropes in the games and gaming industry as "just as bad" as those making death and rape threats against the women, then I expect you or someone to give me at least one example of Anita Sarkeesian or any of the other women journalists/gamers who have been speaking up about the anti-female tropes also making death/rape threats against the #GamerGate people.

I will happily note that all of three examples (one of which I provided myself) of men REACTING to the #GamerGate threats against women - but no one has yet provided a single example any of the journalists/gamers who have spoken out against the tropes making violent threats against the #GamerGate people.

 

[Axulus]

From an Erik?

Yeah... Ok. If you are seriously going to maintain that the misogynistic GamerGaters are justified in their violent rape threats against women who question misogyny in the games themselves because some dude named Erik gave the GGs back some of their own medicine... whatever.

There is the football player who has called them out too. Has called them every name in the book, then rubs their noses in the fact that none of the GamerGaters have dared "dox" or threaten him. Yeah, if you want to act like that means the GamerGaters are justified, I will simply have to disagree and say that you've totally missed the point.

- - - Updated - - -N

I second the request for any source showing the GamerGate people being threatened with death, rape, etc.

Did you not see the tweet by the guy called Boogie that I linked?

A guy named Boogie...

Uh huh

How many specific women gamers, journalists and/or actors have been directly threatened with rape and violence? By whom? What did any of those women say or do to generate those threats of violence? Have any of them threatened any gamer anywhere with any sort of violence?

Holy shifting the goalposts Batman! RS asks for examples of threats of death or sexual violence against GGers by anti-GGers and, when given asked for examples, dismisses them/makes excuses for them and changes it to a numbers game (rather than thanking the poster for providing requested examples and acknowledging it and properly denouncing the actions). You are no better than those dismissing the threats against women. Your extreme bias is showing, and it is ugly.

Wrong. I am not making it a numbers game. I am calling bullshit on those making it a finger-pointing "they are just as bad" game.

If the claim is that those pointing out the anti-female tropes in the games and gaming industry as "just as bad" as those making death and rape threats against the women, then I expect you or someone to give me at least one example of Anita Sarkeesian or any of the other women journalists/gamers who have been speaking up about the anti-female tropes also making death/rape threats against the #GamerGate people.

I will happily note that all of three examples (one of which I provided myself) of men REACTING to the #GamerGate threats against women - but no one has yet provided a single example any of the journalists/gamers who have spoken out against the tropes making violent threats against the #GamerGate people.

Question: which group do you believe is going to contain a higher number of psychopaths/sociopaths and also engage in social media behavior consistent with such tendancies - the population of gamers who have the ability to remain anonymous or the much smaller population of public feminists and journalists who have a public reputation to uphold?

 

[RavenSky]

Question: which group do you believe is going to contain a higher number of psychopaths/sociopaths and also engage in behavior consistent with such tendancies - the population of gamers who have the ability to remain anonymous or the much smaller population of public feminists and journalists who have a public reputation to uphold?

It sounds like you actually agree with me that the feminist journalists/gamers are not *just as bad* as the "psychopaths/sociopaths... [who] also engage in behavior consistent with such tendancies - the population of gamers who have the ability to remain anonymous".

 

[Axulus]

Question: which group do you believe is going to contain a higher number of psychopaths/sociopaths and also engage in behavior consistent with such tendancies - the population of gamers who have the ability to remain anonymous or the much smaller population of public feminists and journalists who have a public reputation to uphold?

It sounds like you actually agree with me that the feminist journalists/gamers are not *just as bad* as the "psychopaths/sociopaths... [who] also engage in behavior consistent with such tendancies - the population of gamers who have the ability to remain anonymous".

The behavior is not just as bad as those making the threats. Who has ever said or implied otherwise? You turned it into a numbers game, which means we have to control for all variables, such as population size and incentive effects (public vs anonymous behavior).

Do you have an estimate on the total number of gamer gaters vs the number of them that are trouble makers? How does this compare to other populations containing similar demographics of agenda driven groups?

What most people object to is being tarred with the apalling behavior of sociopaths who identify with a group they are a part of or identify with (guilt by association) and then using these apalling actions as a shield for legitimate criticism from anyone who identifies as part of that group or in support of that group.

 

[RavenSky]

It sounds like you actually agree with me that the feminist journalists/gamers are not *just as bad* as the "psychopaths/sociopaths... [who] also engage in behavior consistent with such tendancies - the population of gamers who have the ability to remain anonymous".

The behavior is not just as bad as those making the threats.

exactly

Who has ever said or implied otherwise?

Starr, for one

You turned it into a numbers game,

No, I did not

What most people object to is being tarred with the apalling behavior of sociopaths who identify with a group they are a part of or identify with and then using these apalling actions as a shield for legitimate criticism from anyone who identifies as part of that group or in support of that group.

Those who labeled themselves with the GamerGate hashtag specifically and voluntarily aligned themselves "with the appalling behavior of sociopaths". The GamerGate hashtag started with those making the violent threats against women, and with men like that Return of Kings person.

It is entirely possible that some clueless good guy ignorantly aligned himself with a bunch of misogynists and sociopaths, but instead of complaining about being judged by the company he keeps, perhaps he should start his own hashtag instead?

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/...pushed-gamergate-into-the-national-spotlight/

http://cathodedebris.tumblr.com/post/96623884813/first-uses-of-the-gamergate-and-notyourshield

https://medium.com/@poopsockholmes/the-bad-apples-of-gamergate-ba39f8fd485

 

[Starr]

Who has ever said or implied otherwise?

Starr, for one

I most certainly did NOT! I said I saw more personal attacks coming from the anti-GGer crowd, based purely on my own observations of social media. Personal attacks include a lot of varieties of harassment besides rape or death threats. I don't think anyone prominent on either side have issued rape or death threats, those people are all unfortunately anonymous (if I have missed any, please let me know).

I certainly agree that some prominent supporters of GamerGate are objectionable*. Perhaps my biggest disappointment with the GamerGaters is in fact their almost uncritical support of anyone who supports them. Most justify this with the following logic, which in most situations I'd agree with: "I can disagree with someone, or find something objectionable about someone, and still agree with them in other areas". I think that is a valid argument to a certain extent, but I also think if you are going to closely ally yourself with someone on some issue, and they hold other positions that you find objectionable, you need to be clear in your open condemnation of those positions.

But I can see that no useful discussion can come of this. I'm sick of everyones desire to frame this as an Us vs Them thing, forcing everyone into abstract groups that have certain attributes. If any one person does something bad, call them out on it, harassment is wrong from any quarter. It is the tribal mentality that lets you ignore bad behavior from people "on your side".

*: @FartToContinue is one I particularly loathe, since I am a big fan of @dexbonus (Dodger) and @FartToContinue exists for almost the sole purpose of harassing her (she has a YouTube show called 'Press Heart To Continue').

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Hm.. I've not heard about that. Source please?

I second the request for any source showing the GamerGate people being threatened with death, rape, etc.

The claim was bad behavior, not death threats.

 

[RavenSky]

I second the request for any source showing the GamerGate people being threatened with death, rape, etc.

The claim was bad behavior, not death threats.

Moore-Coulter

There ARE death threats and rape threats on one side.

No matter how you want to attempt to parse it, this is not and never will be a matter of equivalency in any way so long as any GamerGater is threatening a woman with death or rape because he doesn't like her views on the industry

 

[PJPSYCO]

The claim was bad behavior, not death threats.

Moore-Coulter

There ARE death threats and rape threats on one side.

No matter how you want to attempt to parse it, this is not and never will be a matter of equivalency in any way so long as any GamerGater is threatening a woman with death or rape because he doesn't like her views on the industry

How about sending a gamergate supporter a knife in the mail with a note saying kill yourself?

 

[Joni-san]

@FartToContinue

I've seen some GamerGate threads in other places. From what I gather a (large?) bunch of GamerGate supporters consider Fart to be something of a chucklefuck.

 

[Underseer]

It sounds like you actually agree with me that the feminist journalists/gamers are not *just as bad* as the "psychopaths/sociopaths... [who] also engage in behavior consistent with such tendancies - the population of gamers who have the ability to remain anonymous".

The behavior is not just as bad as those making the threats. Who has ever said or implied otherwise? You turned it into a numbers game, which means we have to control for all variables, such as population size and incentive effects (public vs anonymous behavior).

Do you have an estimate on the total number of gamer gaters vs the number of them that are trouble makers? How does this compare to other populations containing similar demographics of agenda driven groups?

What most people object to is being tarred with the apalling behavior of sociopaths who identify with a group they are a part of or identify with (guilt by association) and then using these apalling actions as a shield for legitimate criticism from anyone who identifies as part of that group or in support of that group.

The point is not that gamers kill as many people as Muslims.

The point is that "We're going to flood you with anonymous rape threats to prove that we're not misogynist" is every bit as stupid as "Death to those who say Islam is not a religion of peace!"

 

[GenesisNemesis]

The point is that "We're going to flood you with anonymous rape threats to prove that we're not misogynist" is every bit as stupid as "Death to those who say Islam is not a religion of peace!"

Why do you think they're doing it to "prove they're not misogynist"?

 

[PJPSYCO]

The point is not that gamers kill as many people as Muslims.

The point is that "We're going to flood you with anonymous rape threats to prove that we're not misogynist" is every bit as stupid as "Death to those who say Islam is not a religion of peace!"

...and so, the knife sent to KingofPol is about what then? Are you a psychopath? Or do the actions of someone who is a psychopath not represent the whole of the group.