Flynn Resigns - Impeachment proceedings begin

[Malintent]

I disagree... It's more like they are considering releasing his harness, while remaining under the canopy of their base's wishes. What representative is going to think, "gee, he has a 30% approval rating.. what percentage do I need to get myself reelected again?"

But that 30% votes heavily in Republican primaries. Trump's supporters have a gun to the GOP's head, so it doesn't matter what the establishment part of their base wants. Going against Trump means that they lose in the primary when another candidate is selected to replace them or they lose in the general when the Trump faction stays home and gives their job to a Democrat.

.. but what I am saying is that Trump supporters are less than 30%... it is the OTHER 70% holding the gun to their head.

Would you be loyal to the people that give you your job, or the person that has no influence on your job that those very people are turning against?

What you are proposing assumes that every republican Senator expects to have a chance at being the next president, and that that nomination depends solely on one element of the entire GOP base.

 

[Jayjay]

I'm almost feeling sorry for Kellyanne Conway for having to defend Trump administration's inconsistencies on Flynn...

 

[Tom Sawyer]

But that 30% votes heavily in Republican primaries. Trump's supporters have a gun to the GOP's head, so it doesn't matter what the establishment part of their base wants. Going against Trump means that they lose in the primary when another candidate is selected to replace them or they lose in the general when the Trump faction stays home and gives their job to a Democrat.

.. but what I am saying is that Trump supporters are less than 30%... it is the OTHER 70% holding the gun to their head.

Would you be loyal to the people that give you your job, or the person that has no influence on your job that those very people are turning against?

What you are proposing assumes that every republican Senator expects to have a chance at being the next president, and that that nomination depends solely on one element of the entire GOP base.

Well, of that other 70%, 40% will never be voting for them anyways. So, they're considering the needs of one group of 30% and another group of 30%. One of those groups has shown themselves to be very passionate and engaged in the electoral process and that's the Trump voters.

Also, it's not the some kind of nation-wide Presidential vote which matters, but the local votes within their districts, because impeachment is done by the House and not by the Senate. The Tea Party and Trump factions are very active in the primary process, so they're the ones who give each of the GOP councilmen their job. They're also delicate snowflakes and are very capable of staying home during the general election if the incumbent does survive the primary challenge they put against him and a few percentage points lost by their base staying home would swing a large number of districts to the Dems.

 

[Elixir]

But that 30% votes heavily in Republican primaries. Trump's supporters have a gun to the GOP's head, so it doesn't matter what the establishment part of their base wants. Going against Trump means that they lose in the primary when another candidate is selected to replace them or they lose in the general when the Trump faction stays home and gives their job to a Democrat.

.. but what I am saying is that Trump supporters are less than 30%... it is the OTHER 70% holding the gun to their head.

Would you be loyal to the people that give you your job, or the person that has no influence on your job that those very people are turning against?

What you are proposing assumes that every republican Senator expects to have a chance at being the next president, and that that nomination depends solely on one element of the entire GOP base.

Grab some popcorn - that wheel will be turning for a long time. As the Cheato infection perfuses throughout the Repug establishment there will be ever-increasing numbers of them seeking an antidote. It is like a virus that they can never truly get rid of, having once bitten the rotten fruit. But with adequate PR spin treatment many of them will be able to suppress the symptoms long enough to get re-elected to Congress, even if their presidential prospects are already shot.

 

[Hickdive]

Chances of President-elect Trump not knowing about his pick for NSA speaking to the Russians about diplomatic relations? Roughly nil.

Chances of proving Trump was aware of the matter? Roughly nil.

Chances of impeaching Trump on this issue? Considerably less than nil.

Trump is a guy who is either unaware of the rules, or thinks they don't apply to him, or thinks that, as POTUS, he can override them. He has also surrounded himself with people of the same opinion.

Flynn is the sacrificial chicken. He's been fired so they can go, "oh we've dealt with that issue, let's move on".

You can bet the inheritance that every cabinet member Trump has appointed is similarly compromised in some way and that Trump will ensure that the slightest hint of dissent in the cabinet will see those swords of Damocles waved around to ensure compliance amongst the weevils as they cling to their power bases.

At risk of someone invoking Godwin, Trump's agenda is to have every department and agency squabbling and in-fighting and their respective cabinet representatives scheming against each other in order to prevent any serious challenge to his authority.

 

[Malintent]

Trump's agenda is to have every department and agency squabbling and in-fighting and their respective cabinet representatives scheming against each other in order to prevent any serious challenge to his authority.

Well then Trump will be right within his element... the Reality TV formula.

 

[Toni]

The problem is impeaching him would hurt the Republican "brand".

And these people put party over nation time and time again.

It won't even begin to happen with a Republican Congress.

Agreed. While a lot of Republican Congressional support for Trump is reluctant at best, they all have too much invested in him already and the Trump enthusiasts (a huge chunk of their voting block) remain blinded by right wing media. So their hands are tied.

Right now, Trump is serving a useful purpose, with lots of high profile distractions from the real gut job being done on the country. Republicans will keep him in place right up until he is no longer useful. Right now, he's pretty useful as a distraction and is doing an excellent job of laying the groundwork for removal from office by impeachment or 25th Amendment. It will be so easy once it's decided it's the right time.

Democrats have nothing to do with it, except to make noise.

 

[Toni]

I'm almost feeling sorry for Kellyanne Conway for having to defend Trump administration's inconsistencies on Flynn...

Don't feel sorry for her. I'm pretty sure she's on her way out PDQ. And a big part of me thinks that she wants out, which is why she's done some of the bonehead things like plugging for Ivanka right now.

Thing is, Ivanka's doing just fine. Macys and other retailers dropping her line publicly is just publicity. Lines get dropped or cut back all the time. But frankly, even without her line of retail goods, Ivanka is doing just fine, gonna be just fine.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Don't feel sorry for her. I'm pretty sure she's on her way out PDQ. And a big part of me thinks that she wants out, which is why she's done some of the bonehead things like plugging for Ivanka right now.

Thing is, Ivanka's doing just fine. Macys and other retailers dropping her line publicly is just publicity. Lines get dropped or cut back all the time. But frankly, even without her line of retail goods, Ivanka is doing just fine, gonna be just fine.

Until Daddy can't pay off the Russian loans. Then she disappears and gets mailed back one piece at a time.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Chances of proving Trump was aware of the matter? Roughly nil.

No. His own Justice dept told him weeks ago.

 

[Malintent]

Chances of President-elect Trump not knowing about his pick for NSA speaking to the Russians about diplomatic relations? Roughly nil.

agree.

Chances of proving Trump was aware of the matter? Roughly nil.

disagree. Kellyanne already confirmed that the President was fully aware... it would be impossible to claim otherwise... and foolish, as the President not knowing what his National Security Advisor was up to is actually worse than him saying that it "wasn't that big of a deal"... and this being the content of that mysterious FBI briefing (or CIA, I forget) is better than the Piss Party story, for sure.

Chances of impeaching Trump on this issue? Considerably less than nil.

This issue ALONE, I agree. This is not the only issue. This + conflict of interest + pathological lying regardless of how trivial + ethics violations

Trump is a guy who is either unaware of the rules, or thinks they don't apply to him, or thinks that, as POTUS, he can override them. He has also surrounded himself with people of the same opinion.

yes, exactly... that is how he is getting himself impeached, arrested, or worse. If you tried to play ice hockey without knowing the rules, you would spend most of your time in the penalty box for icing and being off-sides constantly.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Chances of President-elect Trump not knowing about his pick for NSA speaking to the Russians about diplomatic relations? Roughly nil.

Chances of proving Trump was aware of the matter? Roughly nil.

So Spicer's statement this afternoon acknowledging that 45 was told weeks ago by the White House Counsel isn't proof? What do you want? Video?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This whole story stinks. The basis of his firing was that he lied to the VP? Excluding Cheney, what VP would have ever mattered if someone lied to the VP?

- - - Updated - - -

Chances of President-elect Trump not knowing about his pick for NSA speaking to the Russians about diplomatic relations? Roughly nil.

Chances of proving Trump was aware of the matter? Roughly nil.

So Spicer's statement this afternoon acknowledging that 45 was told weeks ago by the White House Counsel isn't proof? What do you want? Video?

And we are stuck with a couple indecent scenarios. He was ordered to do the talking or he did it completely on his own. Seriously, we really don't want either of those to be true.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Chances of proving Trump was aware of the matter? Roughly nil.

No. His own Justice dept told him weeks ago.

Did they tell him or did they tell someone who works for him with the expectation that he would be told by that someone?

Also, if the Justice Department knew, why didn't the Senate Judiciary Committee or the Senate Intelligence Committee or one of the other groups who voted to confirm him after this information was known? If those guys didn't know, why didn't the Justice Department fill them in about this extraordinarily relevant information while they knew the confirmation hearings for this guy were going on?

 

[Toni]

This whole story stinks. The basis of his firing was that he lied to the VP? Excluding Cheney, what VP would have ever mattered if someone lied to the VP?

No one but NO ONE in the Admin. is going to admit that anyone in the admin. was doing anything illegal (which Flynn was!) or even questionable. Yates was fired because she was making a stink over this. It just got to be too big a deal with too many people talking about it not to ditch Flynn.

The 'lying' thing is a pretext, as is just about everything in that admin.

And we are stuck with a couple indecent scenarios. He was ordered to do the talking or he did it completely on his own. Seriously, we really don't want either of those to be true.

Ordered???? No, he was hired to do the talking.

I pretty much don't want anything that's happened in national politics for the past 3 months to be true but this is what we have. Pretending otherwise isn't going to help a damn thing.

- - - Updated - - -

No. His own Justice dept told him weeks ago.

Did they tell him or did they tell someone who works for him with the expectation that he would be told by that someone?

Also, if the Justice Department knew, why didn't the Senate Judiciary Committee or the Senate Intelligence Committee or one of the other groups who voted to confirm him after this information was known? If those guys didn't know, why didn't the Justice Department fill them in about this extraordinarily relevant information while they knew the confirmation hearings for this guy were going on?

Yates was fired for knowing/confronting admin over it. This slowed down the public knowledge and forcing of admin.'s hand re: calling for Flynn's resignation.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Yates was fired for knowing/confronting admin over it. This slowed down the public knowledge and forcing of admin.'s hand re: calling for Flynn's resignation.

It's not the public knowledge, it's the oversight committee in the Senate. If the White House was informed, I assume that they should have been informed at the same time. If someone at the FBI/NSA/wherever is seeing that this guy who they caught doing this illegal stuff was in the middle of a confirmation hearing and nobody was asking about all the illegal stuff he'd been caught doing, that might warrant a phone call or two.

 

[Elixir]

Did they tell him or did they tell someone who works for him with the expectation that he would be told by that someone?

Which would be more damning? Hard to say.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Chances of proving Trump was aware of the matter? Roughly nil.

No. His own Justice dept told him weeks ago.

So the Justice Dept knew, the Trump Admin knew, the Russians knew. Other than a few of us here, who didn't know?!

 

[Horatio Parker]

No. His own Justice dept told him weeks ago.

Did they tell him or did they tell someone who works for him with the expectation that he would be told by that someone?

Also, if the Justice Department knew, why didn't the Senate Judiciary Committee or the Senate Intelligence Committee or one of the other groups who voted to confirm him after this information was known? If those guys didn't know, why didn't the Justice Department fill them in about this extraordinarily relevant information while they knew the confirmation hearings for this guy were going on?

The White House, through Spicer, says he was told.

But you know how they lie.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No one but NO ONE in the Admin. is going to admit that anyone in the admin. was doing anything illegal (which Flynn was!) or even questionable. Yates was fired because she was making a stink over this. It just got to be too big a deal with too many people talking about it not to ditch Flynn.

The 'lying' thing is a pretext, as is just about everything in that admin.

The joke is the VP angle though. Who ever has to answer to the VP, other than NASA?

The Yates issue becomes much larger, if she was fired because of this. It is one thing to fire an AG for partisan political bitchery, but because of someone breaking the law? Quick, someone get Bork on speed dial.