Forgery suspect killed by cop restricting his airway

[Derec]

First, you aren't in any way qualified to make that call.

Neither are you about the carotid artery. Then it's settled - we will wait for the autopsy.
I mean for all we know, he might have died from COVID19.

 

[Derec]

Is this an independent autopsy or colleagues of the cops?

They will do an official autopsy by a medical examiner first.

An autopsy organized by that hearse chaser Crump and performed by his version of "Dr. Bison" is hardly independent though, but I am sure we will have one of those too.

 

[Derec]

Maybe you should take your own advice and stop jumping to conclusions.

I have not seen any evidence of NatGuard last night. I think they will be active tonight. I hope they will make a difference.

 

[Arctish]

At the very least, the officers failed in their duty to the man in custody. Video seems to indicate that the officer’s actions precipitated whatever sequence of medical events: asthma attack, heart attack, whatever. The officer would at least be culpable in Floyd’s death.

And even if by some fluke the kneeling on the neck wasn't a factor in Floyd's death, there's still the needless pain and suffering to consider.

The problem is that when it happens a lot you get the "boy who cried wolf" situation.

So what? As we both agreed:

Beats the hell out of a trip to the coroners. For everybody.

Obviously.

Making a medical check part of the booking process isn't that big a deal. It could even save lives if the stress of being arrested has triggered an asthma attack or heart problems, or if a suspect needs to take their prescription meds while in custody.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

First, you aren't in any way qualified to make that call.

Neither are you about the carotid artery.

I didn't make any "call" in regard to the carotid artery.

Then it's settled - we will wait for the autopsy.

The fact that you keep repeating this leads me to suspect the worthless pieces-of-shit you are no-doubt connected with in the alt-right incel cuckosphere have already heard rumors from the KKK cops that they're going to cook the autopsy in the cop's favor. Which is also why the "hearse chaser" lawyer is insisting on an independent autopsy.

I mean for all we know, he might have died from COVID19.

There's really nothing more pathetic than someone who takes glee in a man's unnecessary death, except perhaps one that does it purely for desperate artifice, but then we transition into pathos, not merely the pathetic.

 

[laughing dog]

Maybe you should take your own advice and stop jumping to conclusions.

I have not seen any evidence of NatGuard last night. I think they will be active tonight. I hope they will make a difference.

It was in your linked article in your post. If you do not bother to read your own links, why should anyone else?

 

[Derec]

Did we lose our shot at a better America when these two men were assassinated?

The ones in top right are black supremacists Elijah Robert Poole and Malcolm Little. I do not recognize the Nazis at the bottom though.

We are never going to be able to live together perhaps...

I am not as pessimistic as you, but to be able to live together peacefully, we must undo the mistakes that have been done since the 60s.

Identity politics, "blame whitey", "blacks can't be racist" etc. should all be dumped in the dustbin of history. Then, and only then, will we have a chance.

 

[Derec]

It was in your linked article in your post. If you do not bother to read your own links, why should anyone else?

I don't care where it was, they didn't show up last night.

 

[laughing dog]

It was in your linked article in your post. If you do not bother to read your own links, why should anyone else?

I don't care where it was, they didn't show up last night.

So, you are now linking articles as evidence even though they are inaccurate?

 

[Derec]

So, you are now linking articles as evidence even though they are inaccurate?

That's one sentence. Nobody is infallible.

 

[laughing dog]

So, you are now linking articles as evidence even though they are inaccurate?

That's one sentence. Nobody is infallible.

Keep that thought in mind every time you post. Along with hindsight is 20/20.

 

[ZiprHead]

Totally not true. This Josie Duffy (whoever she is) is talking out of her ass.


How so? There is more police presence in higher crime areas, but there definitely is police patrolling safer, more affluent neighborhoods. They would not stay safe for long if they didn't!

people aren’t being arrested.

A blatant lie. Hardly worth commenting on the rest of her anti-police drivel.

She makes some good points. I’ve never even received a traffic ticket although I’ve been pulled over while exceeding the speed limit. I’ve inadvertently shoplifted and all that happened when I walked back into the store with the merchandise I had accidentally not paid for was that I was thanked. I worried about my son going out at night and getting pulled over but I never considered that a failure to signal a turn might mean he was arrested or worse: dead. In my neighborhood? If there are lots of loud drunk college students (who sometimes cause properly damage or occasionally get into fights or occasionally die of acute alcohol poinsoning) I know that I can call the police who will disperse the crowds.

Why should not every person be able to have the same expectations?

I was listening to a radio talk show this afternoon. A man called in saying that he got caught using a fake twenty dollar bill. The cashier said "Sorry, I have to keep this and turn it in." That was it, no cops involved. But the guy was white.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

She makes some good points. I’ve never even received a traffic ticket although I’ve been pulled over while exceeding the speed limit. I’ve inadvertently shoplifted and all that happened when I walked back into the store with the merchandise I had accidentally not paid for was that I was thanked. I worried about my son going out at night and getting pulled over but I never considered that a failure to signal a turn might mean he was arrested or worse: dead. In my neighborhood? If there are lots of loud drunk college students (who sometimes cause properly damage or occasionally get into fights or occasionally die of acute alcohol poinsoning) I know that I can call the police who will disperse the crowds.

Why should not every person be able to have the same expectations?

I was listening to a radio talk show this afternoon. A man called in saying that he got caught using a fake twenty dollar bill. The cashier said "Sorry, I have to keep this and turn it in." That was it, no cops involved. But the guy was white.

Yeah, I haven't seen anyone confirm whether or not Floyd just happened to have been given a counterfeit $20 and simply didn't know it. I've passed along at least two that I know of and probably many more that I didn't know anything about after 30 years in NYC. No one ever arrested me or even thought about calling the cops. In the two instances it was just, "Sorry, but we have to keep these and turn them into the police." And off I went blissfully white and privileged and not needlessly killed.

ETA: To clarify, I didn't knowingly pass on counterfeit $20. I meant that the clerks in both instances checked the bills and discovered they were evidently counterfeit and then informed me.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The cops, Derec, are you fucking serious? The answer is the cops.

The cops who got immediately fired and will probably get railroaded no matter what the investigation shows about the cause of death because politicians from the city mayor to the likely next president of the United States want them in prison? What kind of power is that?

Even if they hadn't killed him this video should be enough to get them fired. Unless you are some base form of bootlicker.

They GOT fired. So they are hardly powerful.
The family of the guy will likely become millionaires, and the hearse chaser Benjamin Crump will get his 35%. THAT'S power.

From a discussion about this elsewhere: unapproved means of restraint. The video makes it clear what's going on, there wasn't really anything to investigate, they're fired.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

”Thank you for taking the time to write this. The phrase "if you can talk, you can breathe" has to be the most infuriating thing I hear when it's obviously wrong when your patient dies shortly after saying "I can't breathe." In these cases, they aren't patients but people in police custody.“

The words of a medic, apparently.

If you can talk, you can breathe (i.e. ventilate) because air movement is necessary for talking. But that doesn't mean that respiration is occurring at normal levels.

Did you suffer anoxia as a child? You speak by expelling air in the lungs.

Let me step on your neck and I'll show you how someone can choke you into unconsciousness while you beg for help.

Pressure won't block air in only one direction. If you can exhale you can inhale.

I still think this is a case of the officer simply trying to inflict a bit of pain. The guy was complaining and the cop probably applied more pressure--stopping the complaints because it really did compress the airway. Negligent homicide, but you'll have to find a felony somehow to get felony murder because I certainly don't think he intended to kill.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Pressure can indeed make it more difficult to inhale. Sorry. I do know a few people with asthma who can attest to that.

As to the inflicting a bit of pain, that is an offense in and of itself.

As for if it is "intent to kill", try Second Degree Murder at Findlaw

Intent to Cause Only Serious Bodily Harm

A second situation that constitutes second-degree murder is where the perpetrator intends only to cause serious bodily harm but knows that death could result from the act. For example, in the situation above, instead of shooting Bill, Adam grabs a shovel and whacks Bill in the head with all his strength. While Adam didn't specifically intend to kill Bill when he hit him, he did intend to strike him with the shovel knowing that such a blow to the head carried with it a distinct possibility of death. Adam killing Bill in this way would be classified as murder in the second degree.

 

[Angry Floof]

Wow, I had no idea we had so many authoritative medical experts here.

 

[Toni]

She makes some good points. I’ve never even received a traffic ticket although I’ve been pulled over while exceeding the speed limit. I’ve inadvertently shoplifted and all that happened when I walked back into the store with the merchandise I had accidentally not paid for was that I was thanked. I worried about my son going out at night and getting pulled over but I never considered that a failure to signal a turn might mean he was arrested or worse: dead. In my neighborhood? If there are lots of loud drunk college students (who sometimes cause properly damage or occasionally get into fights or occasionally die of acute alcohol poinsoning) I know that I can call the police who will disperse the crowds.

Why should not every person be able to have the same expectations?

I was listening to a radio talk show this afternoon. A man called in saying that he got caught using a fake twenty dollar bill. The cashier said "Sorry, I have to keep this and turn it in." That was it, no cops involved. But the guy was white.

Yeah, I haven't seen anyone confirm whether or not Floyd just happened to have been given a counterfeit $20 and simply didn't know it. I've passed along at least two that I know of and probably many more that I didn't know anything about after 30 years in NYC. No one ever arrested me or even thought about calling the cops. In the two instances it was just, "Sorry, but we have to keep these and turn them into the police." And off I went blissfully white and privileged and not needlessly killed.

ETA: To clarify, I didn't knowingly pass on counterfeit $20. I meant that the clerks in both instances checked the bills and discovered they were evidently counterfeit and then informed me.

Occasionally counterfeit bills are found in my town. I am always paranoid that I might inadvertently pass one.

All of that aside: we know Floyd was suspected of passing a bad bill. We don’t know that he did.

And btw: $20. A fucking $20.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Yeah, I haven't seen anyone confirm whether or not Floyd just happened to have been given a counterfeit $20 and simply didn't know it. I've passed along at least two that I know of and probably many more that I didn't know anything about after 30 years in NYC. No one ever arrested me or even thought about calling the cops. In the two instances it was just, "Sorry, but we have to keep these and turn them into the police." And off I went blissfully white and privileged and not needlessly killed.

ETA: To clarify, I didn't knowingly pass on counterfeit $20. I meant that the clerks in both instances checked the bills and discovered they were evidently counterfeit and then informed me.

Occasionally counterfeit bills are found in my town. I am always paranoid that I might inadvertently pass one.

All of that aside: we know Floyd was suspected of passing a bad bill. We don’t know that he did.

Or if he knew he was passing a bad bill. Something I guess we'll never know, unless the Secret Service decide to investigate. Do they still handle counterfeiting? I can't remember and can't be arsed to check.

And btw: $20. A fucking $20.

Yep. In no way is death an appropriate punishment.

 

[repoman]

These looters should be summarily executed. Whatever race they are.