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Forgery suspect killed by cop restricting his airway

This article raises concerns about the greatly increased use of ketamine to sedate police suspects in Minneapolis. Number of cases of it being administered in such situations went up by 2000% (from only 3 to 67 per annum) between 2012 and 2017 for instance.

Minneapolis Investigates Police Use Of Ketamine On Suspects
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/30/6249...e-use-of-ketamine-on-suspects?t=1593338848937

This part (below) is potentially especially worrying. The claim is that the hospitals are partly complicit in increased police requests to use ketamine partly because they need subjects for the studies they are doing on ketamine. I have read this elsewhere also:

"You know, the scope of the oversight report is mostly police, but they do touch on this a little bit. There's one case in particular where someone, you know, being recorded on police body camera asks why they sedated somebody and the paramedic talks about the study and says well, you know, we're doing this study and so we needed to give them ketamine. There was one woman we talked to who had relapsed on alcohol and she was in her apartment and her sponsor, an AA, called and said can you just do a welfare check on my friend. I just want to make sure she's OK. They ended up coming into her apartment - said she didn't want this drug, they gave it to her anyway.

She wakes up 24 hours later with a breathing tube down her throat. And then on her way out, they hand her this form that says, by the way, you know, you're enrolled in this study. And that's pretty common, that's a pretty typical story. There are several investigations going on right now including one with former acting U.S. Attorney General Sally Yates. She's been appointed by the mayor, here, to come in and do an independent investigation. So obviously they're very concerned."


If true, very ironic. Giving a date-rape drug to people without their consent.
Holy crap! I was given ketamine when the orthopedic surgeon was pushing my broken and dislocated ankle back into place. It was one of the most surreal experiences of my life. Whoever thought that police giving ketamine to anyone was a good idea should be banned from public service.
 
We should all be outraged at the use of ketamine or any other drug being administered at the hands of the police.

Full stop.

I 100% agree. I can maybe imagine some case where it is justified, but certainly not this case, and the fact that it is becoming common is outrageous. I had never heard of this. What the hell is going on in Minneapolis?

I almost made the exception for administering narcan but decided against it.

I know of police officers who spend a lot of every shift administering narcan. On one hand, I'm thankful that people who have overdosed are being saved, this is really not the work for police officers--and most police officers agree.

And I also want to say that while, on principle, I don't care if people use drugs, too many are needing rescue by narcan. I'm glad if they are rescued but WTF? that the need of rescue due to opioid overdose is so common? Also: I've spend a fair amount of time with kids who come from families with a lot of drug and/or alcohol abuse and the effects of either/both on children are tragic and unfair--and those are vast, vast understatements.

At least half of all those currently incarcerated in federal prisons are there for drug offenses. At least half. Looking at my local 'who's in jail' section of my local newspaper, it is almost exclusively filled with drug and/or alcohol offenders, often who are arrested for other offenses such as domestic abuse, shoplifting, vandalism, stalking, etc.


One of the things we talk about is legalizing drugs. OK but that's only a tiny part of the solution. Legalization of drugs will not alleviate or mitigate or reduce in any way the extremely detrimental effects of parental/adult usage of drugs on children any more than the legalization of alcohol use has eliminated, alleviated, mitigated or reduced the harm that alcohol abuse by parents/adults does to children. Yeah, I'm saying children because they certainly did absolutely nothing to deserve the neglect and abuse and worry and fear and shame and loathing and horror that parents who abuse alcohol and/or drugs visit upon them. Removing kids from the situation is a bad solution and should be used only when there is no other solution.

What would be a much, much, much better use of our taxpayer dollars is an excellent mental health care system AND an excellent system of care for those dealing with chronic pain or pain from injuries or surgeries. Some people have no problem with the opioids they may be prescribed following a surgery. I know someone who became addicted in 3 days and was hospitalized on the fourth or fifth day for withdrawal of a drug dependency he didn't know he had and had never had until he needed knee surgery. Had to be readmitted and then go through withdrawal in a careful, controlled, slow way--and fortunately had insurance to cover it. So let's not all be cocky about how it couldn't happen to us. It could happen to anybody if the circumstances are right and your body's wiring or chemistry makes you susceptible.

Of course, all of this care goes right along with excellent health care for all. Period. No exceptions. Not even for Our National Shame/Cheeto in Chief. I mean: wouldn't we all like to see them come up with some cocktail of drugs that puts him in his right mind long enough to comprehend that he has lost the election, been convicted of a lengthy list of criminal offenses, including, in all probability, treason and to fully comprehend the sentences he will serve?

Sorry to cram so many personal rants into one post.
 
BLM overplaying its hand against a group with real power.

They can yell all day about whitey, but the new version of South Africa...

Screenshot from 2020-06-28 18-56-44.png

Media coverage and support will start to plummet again.
 
BLM overplaying its hand against a group with real power.

They can yell all day about whitey, but the new version of South Africa...

View attachment 28391

Media coverage and support will start to plummet again.

It's why BLM is just a fraud. It doesn't care about black lives or police brutality but uses those phony causes to advance Marxist positions.
 
We should all be outraged at the use of ketamine or any other drug being administered at the hands of the police.

Full stop.

I 100% agree. I can maybe imagine some case where it is justified, but certainly not this case, and the fact that it is becoming common is outrageous. I had never heard of this. What the hell is going on in Minneapolis?

3 cases of its use (by medics) on police suspects, per year, is once every 4 months. 67 is once every 5 days. In one city.

Ketamine is apparently not recommended for use on people who have certain underlying medical conditions. It affects breathing and heart rate. I can't imagine that the recipient having just been rendered unconscious by a neck pressure hold on a major artery would be the ideal circumstances in which to administer such a drug, even at normal sedation levels, and especially not without knowing any personal medical history.

I think I could go along with its limited use in certain very difficult situations, perhaps, but this does not look at all like one of them to me. I think it is correct to review the individual case, and possibly investigate the surge in similar cases of its use, and indeed the claims about getting data for medical studies (without consent) being part of the reason.
 
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It's why BLM is just a fraud. It doesn't care about black lives or police brutality but uses those phony causes to advance Marxist positions.

First of all, assuming it's legit, it's BLM UK. Second, how the fuck is arguing for a free Palestine Marxist?
 
We should all be outraged at the use of ketamine or any other drug being administered at the hands of the police.

Full stop.

I 100% agree. I can maybe imagine some case where it is justified, but certainly not this case, and the fact that it is becoming common is outrageous. I had never heard of this. What the hell is going on in Minneapolis?

3 cases of its use (by medics) on police suspects, per year, is once every 4 months. 67 is once every 5 days. In one city.

Ketamine is apparently not recommended for use on people who have certain underlying medical conditions. It affects breathing and heart rate. I can't imagine that the recipient having just been rendered unconscious by a neck pressure hold on a major artery would be the ideal circumstances in which to administer such a drug, even at normal sedation levels, and especially not without knowing any personal medical history.

I think I could go along with its limited use in certain very difficult situations, perhaps, but this does not look at all like one of them to me. I think it is correct to review the individual case, and possibly investigate the surge in similar cases of its use, and indeed the claims about getting data for medical studies (without consent) being part of the reason.

When evaluating an action you need to compare it to the alternatives, not to doing nothing. When you have a combative suspect there is no good answer, the issues to find the least bad ones.
 
3 cases of its use (by medics) on police suspects, per year, is once every 4 months. 67 is once every 5 days. In one city.

Ketamine is apparently not recommended for use on people who have certain underlying medical conditions. It affects breathing and heart rate. I can't imagine that the recipient having just been rendered unconscious by a neck pressure hold on a major artery would be the ideal circumstances in which to administer such a drug, even at normal sedation levels, and especially not without knowing any personal medical history.

I think I could go along with its limited use in certain very difficult situations, perhaps, but this does not look at all like one of them to me. I think it is correct to review the individual case, and possibly investigate the surge in similar cases of its use, and indeed the claims about getting data for medical studies (without consent) being part of the reason.

When evaluating an action you need to compare it to the alternatives, not to doing nothing. When you have a combative suspect there is no good answer, the issues to find the least bad ones.
And, according to your medical expertise, ketamine is the least bad one?
 
3 cases of its use (by medics) on police suspects, per year, is once every 4 months. 67 is once every 5 days. In one city.

Ketamine is apparently not recommended for use on people who have certain underlying medical conditions. It affects breathing and heart rate. I can't imagine that the recipient having just been rendered unconscious by a neck pressure hold on a major artery would be the ideal circumstances in which to administer such a drug, even at normal sedation levels, and especially not without knowing any personal medical history.

I think I could go along with its limited use in certain very difficult situations, perhaps, but this does not look at all like one of them to me. I think it is correct to review the individual case, and possibly investigate the surge in similar cases of its use, and indeed the claims about getting data for medical studies (without consent) being part of the reason.

When evaluating an action you need to compare it to the alternatives, not to doing nothing. When you have a combative suspect there is no good answer, the issues to find the least bad ones.
And, according to your medical expertise, ketamine is the least bad one?

I don't know. The point is pointing out that it's less than ideal isn't evidence that it's the wrong answer.
 
You are committing a logical error. Marxists argue for free Palestine does not mean that someone who argues for a free Palestine is necessarily a Marxist.

I did not say it necessarily follows, so no logical error.
But the two usually go hand in hand, especially when the phrase "free Palestine" is used as opposed to some other language about solving the Israel-Arab conflict.
 
And, according to your medical expertise, ketamine is the least bad one?

I don't know. The point is pointing out that it's less than ideal isn't evidence that it's the wrong answer.
In other words, you had no idea what you are talking about if you do not know whether ketamine is the least bad choice.
 
You are committing a logical error. Marxists argue for free Palestine does not mean that someone who argues for a free Palestine is necessarily a Marxist.

I did not say it necessarily follows, so no logical error.
In order for your response to make any sense, it required that logical error.
But the two usually go hand in hand, especially when the phrase "free Palestine" is used as opposed to some other language about solving the Israel-Arab conflict.
Conflating correlation with causation is a logical error. For example, being against BLM goes hand in hand with being in the KKK. According to you, that makes anyone who is against the BLM to likely be in the KKK.
 
And, according to your medical expertise, ketamine is the least bad one?

I don't know. The point is pointing out that it's less than ideal isn't evidence that it's the wrong answer.
In other words, you had no idea what you are talking about if you do not know whether ketamine is the least bad choice.

And I suppose you would reject every drug application to the FDA because the drug doesn't provide immortality.

Your side is committing the standard leftist mistake of comparing things to utopia and finding them coming up short.

When you have a violent criminal there are no good options. What's less likely to inflict lasting harm, ketamine or beating the shit out of him until he stops resisting? (A taser can stop him but you can't cuff him while using the taser.)
 
In other words, you had no idea what you are talking about if you do not know whether ketamine is the least bad choice.

And I suppose you would reject every drug application to the FDA because the drug doesn't provide immortality.
You suppose wrong.
Your side is committing the standard leftist mistake of comparing things to utopia and finding them coming up short.
Why do you resort to babbling about "sides"? I realize it allows you to make your usual delusional assumptions about what people actually mean instead of dealing with the actual content of the responses.
When you have a violent criminal there are no good options. What's less likely to inflict lasting harm, ketamine or beating the shit out of him until he stops resisting? (A taser can stop him but you can't cuff him while using the taser.)
You presented no evidence to support your claim that injecting ketamine is the least bad option. Ketamine or beat the shit out someone is a particularly stupid example of the excluded middle fallacy.
 
You suppose wrong.
Your side is committing the standard leftist mistake of comparing things to utopia and finding them coming up short.
Why do you resort to babbling about "sides"? I realize it allows you to make your usual delusional assumptions about what people actually mean instead of dealing with the actual content of the responses.
When you have a violent criminal there are no good options. What's less likely to inflict lasting harm, ketamine or beating the shit out of him until he stops resisting? (A taser can stop him but you can't cuff him while using the taser.)
You presented no evidence to support your claim that injecting ketamine is the least bad option. Ketamine or beat the shit out someone is a particularly stupid example of the excluded middle fallacy.

I'm not saying it's the least bad option, I'm saying we don't know if it is or not. Attacking it based on negatives is deceptive because there's no comparison to the other options.
 
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