Four precincts in Outagamie County involved in possible election fraud

[whichphilosophy]

If there is any shadow of doubt then there should be recounts even if the outcome may not be likely to be affected.

I agree. Trump doesn't.

My question is asking what happens if substantial vote disparities, election fraud and/or tampering is discovered. There has already been minor issues uncovered (as noted in earlier posts). At what stage does the entire election get called into question. If it is substantial enough, does the election go to Hillary? To Pence? To someone else? Is there a new election?

If it takes a long time the re election will be the same as the next election
The entire election would be called into question if there are substantial irregularities that seem to have affected the outcome.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I can only imagine the outrage if Trump lost Michigan in a very tight race and there were seals broken on the machines.

So the Michigan recount is already showing some major problems, including voting machines that had their seals broken, and Trump's people are filing lawsuits to stop recounts in other states. Realistically I don't think the recounts will ultimately change anything, but what if...

I don't think the Trump supporters could handle it. Heck, I don't think the nation could handle a reverse of the outcome.

What if enough recounts show that HRC should have won those states' ECs? What if it happens after Dec 20?

Electoral votes must be received by Congress on December 28th. 1960 had a case where Hawaii flipped. 2000 had some obscure SCOTUS decision that December (18) was a holy day and was the only date that must be held to as gospel... but they also said to never refer to the case in the future.

What if the recount itself doesn't make a difference, but enough machines have been tampered with to throw the results into question?

That would be extremely problematic. Is there good evidence machines in Wisconsin and Michigan have broken seals? That'd be extremely troubling! Looking online, there is allegedly something about the modems, something that just sounds so nuts.

Is there any precedent for any of this in US history?

1876 was an absolute clusterfuck and set a precedence of 'any goes'. What I don't get is why is Trump interfering with the recounts? The outcomes should be pretty much set. Even Michigan, which is real close, is no where near as close as Florida in 2000 was. So why do they care? If anything, this would help legitimize the election.

 

[Elixir]

What if the recount itself doesn't make a difference, but enough machines have been tampered with to throw the results into question?

That would be extremely problematic. Is there good evidence machines in Wisconsin and Michigan have broken seals? That'd be extremely troubling!

Five of Nine Wisconsin Voting Machine Seals Were Tampered With

 

[Trausti]

That would be extremely problematic. Is there good evidence machines in Wisconsin and Michigan have broken seals? That'd be extremely troubling!

Five of Nine Wisconsin Voting Machine Seals Were Tampered With

Damn all this fake news.

 

[Elixir]

Five of Nine Wisconsin Voting Machine Seals Were Tampered With

Damn all this fake news.

"ES&S will produce an affidavit from the technician attesting to the fact that he was the person who broke the seals and why he did so. The Commission has asked the St. Croix County Clerk to provide a copy of that document after it has been completed. Also, the equipment will be tested following the recount."

That might help... but I don't see anything fake about the "news", except in how the "claim" was presented by Snopes in your link:
"Recount observers in Wisconsin discovered voting machines seals had been compromised after the 2016 general election."

The link I posted states clearly that it is not known when - or even if - those seals were "tampered with". Damn the fake fake news anyway, right?

 

[Trausti]

Damn all this fake news.

"ES&S will produce an affidavit from the technician attesting to the fact that he was the person who broke the seals and why he did so. The Commission has asked the St. Croix County Clerk to provide a copy of that document after it has been completed. Also, the equipment will be tested following the recount."

That might help... but I don't see anything fake about the "news", except in how the "claim" was presented by Snopes in your link:
"Recount observers in Wisconsin discovered voting machines seals had been compromised after the 2016 general election."

The link I posted states clearly that it is not known when - or even if - those seals were "tampered with". Damn the fake fake news anyway, right?

But they were warranty seals not security seals.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Five of Nine Wisconsin Voting Machine Seals Were Tampered With

Damn all this fake news.

The false statement was that "Wisconsin Officials" found it. The posts were from a Green Party observer.

What is odd is that Snopes says the machines don't match what was used, but the Wisconsin Elections Commission gives a reason why the seals are broken.

Regardless, wide scale issues have yet to be officially reported, though several questions do exist.

- Why did these things need modems added?
- Why wasn't a new label attached?
- When was a WEC or country label affixed?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Damn all this fake news.

"ES&S will produce an affidavit from the technician attesting to the fact that he was the person who broke the seals and why he did so. The Commission has asked the St. Croix County Clerk to provide a copy of that document after it has been completed. Also, the equipment will be tested following the recount."

That might help... but I don't see anything fake about the "news", except in how the "claim" was presented by Snopes in your link:
"Recount observers in Wisconsin discovered voting machines seals had been compromised after the 2016 general election."

The link I posted states clearly that it is not known when - or even if - those seals were "tampered with". Damn the fake fake news anyway, right?

Where is there evidence (or claim) that they were 'compromised' after the election?

 

[Elixir]

Damn all this fake news.

The false statement was that "Wisconsin Officials" found it. The posts were from a Green Party observer.

What is odd is that Snopes says the machines don't match what was used, but the Wisconsin Elections Commission gives a reason why the seals are broken.

Regardless, wide scale issues have yet to be officially reported, though several questions do exist.

- Why did these things need modems added?
- Why wasn't a new label attached?
- When was a WEC or country label affixed?

I sincerely hope than any irregularities that are discovered in this re-count process are inconsequential - and I believe they will be.
It is very odd though, that Trump's yes-men are so loudly trying to stop the re-counts. Almost as if they fear that the election may have been rigged. Or perhaps it's simply part of a coherent policy for them to try to tear down any confidence in the American electoral system, in the run-up to crowning Trump Emperor.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The false statement was that "Wisconsin Officials" found it. The posts were from a Green Party observer.

What is odd is that Snopes says the machines don't match what was used, but the Wisconsin Elections Commission gives a reason why the seals are broken.

Regardless, wide scale issues have yet to be officially reported, though several questions do exist.

- Why did these things need modems added?
- Why wasn't a new label attached?
- When was a WEC or country label affixed?

I sincerely hope than any irregularities that are discovered in this re-count process are inconsequential - and I believe they will be.
It is very odd though, that Trump's yes-men are so loudly trying to stop the re-counts. Almost as if they fear that the election may have been rigged. Or perhaps it's simply part of a coherent policy for them to try to tear down any confidence in the American electoral system, in the run-up to crowning Trump Emperor.

Enough of the Heir Trump stuff. That shit was used by right-wingers against Obama all the time. It was obnoxious then as it is now. Trump is getting too old to be an emperor anyway. He'll be 80 when a second term would end.

 

[Elixir]

I sincerely hope than any irregularities that are discovered in this re-count process are inconsequential - and I believe they will be.
It is very odd though, that Trump's yes-men are so loudly trying to stop the re-counts. Almost as if they fear that the election may have been rigged. Or perhaps it's simply part of a coherent policy for them to try to tear down any confidence in the American electoral system, in the run-up to crowning Trump Emperor.

Enough of the Heir Trump stuff. That shit was used by right-wingers against Obama all the time. It was obnoxious then as it is now. Trump is getting too old to be an emperor anyway. He'll be 80 when a second term would end.

Ya mean the "Herr Trump" stuff? Yeah - he'd never settle for such a pedestrian form of address.
He's more into stuff like "Mein Herrlichster Anführer Trump"

There will be no second term, BTW. Either he's gone in 4 years, or he'll take a lifetime appointment, having done away with the Constitution.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, I really can't see Trump

A) Wanting to go through the bother of another campaign or
B) Wanting to be the person who has to defend his record as President

 

[RavenSky]

There is no way he will run for a second term (if he makes it through his first). For the rest of his disgusting life he will be able to trade on the fact that he was President (I threw up a little just typing that), so there is no way he will want to go through the hassle of a second term.

I swear I am still waking up every morning thinking this was all just a horrible nightmare. And no, it is not because "the other side won". I didn't feel like this when Bush was in office (and I hated Bush's policies).

This is different. This is beyond just the damage this asshole may cause through his political and economic decisions.

I feel horror and revulsion and embarrassment and not a little bit of pure denial. Please let me wake up from this nightmare.

 

[Trausti]

Evidence that Trump rigged the Michigan vote found in heavily Republican Detroit:

Michigan’s largest county voted overwhelmingly for Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton, but officials couldn’t reconcile vote totals for 610 of 1,680 precincts during a countywide canvass of vote results late last month.
Most of those are in heavily Democratic Detroit, where the number of ballots in precinct poll books did not match those of voting machine printout reports in 59 percent of precincts, 392 of 662.

Proof that Trump is literally Hitler.

We should thank Jill Stein for her efforts in uncovering these GOP shenanigans.

 

[Playball40]

And what makes it worse, to me anyway, is that I REALLY don't believe he even did it fairly. I truly have no faith in our voting process - at all.

There is no way he will run for a second term (if he makes it through his first). For the rest of his disgusting life he will be able to trade on the fact that he was President (I threw up a little just typing that), so there is no way he will want to go through the hassle of a second term.

I swear I am still waking up every morning thinking this was all just a horrible nightmare. And no, it is not because "the other side won". I didn't feel like this when Bush was in office (and I hated Bush's policies).

This is different. This is beyond just the damage this asshole may cause through his political and economic decisions.

I feel horror and revulsion and embarrassment and not a little bit of pure denial. Please let me wake up from this nightmare.

 

[Elixir]

And what makes it worse, to me anyway, is that I REALLY don't believe he even did it fairly.

I don't believe Trump ever had the wherewithal to pull off a massive election fraud on his own. But I'm sure he'd like knowing that he has shaken public faith in the electoral process, even if it took a lot of help from Assange, Putin, and the fake news sites...

 

[Trausti]

nm

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

If Trump supporters and other assorted apologists are so indignant over the conspiracy theories and accusations of voter fraud, then why haven't they said anything about the millions of illegal Mexican rapists who Trump alleged voted for Clinton?

 

[skepticalbip]

Ya, I really can't see Trump

A) Wanting to go through the bother of another campaign or
B) Wanting to be the person who has to defend his record as President

Indeed. Maybe the 2020 race will be Clinton vs. Rubio.

 

[bilby]

I sincerely hope than any irregularities that are discovered in this re-count process are inconsequential - and I believe they will be.
It is very odd though, that Trump's yes-men are so loudly trying to stop the re-counts. Almost as if they fear that the election may have been rigged. Or perhaps it's simply part of a coherent policy for them to try to tear down any confidence in the American electoral system, in the run-up to crowning Trump Emperor.

Enough of the Heir Trump stuff. That shit was used by right-wingers against Obama all the time. It was obnoxious then as it is now. Trump is getting too old to be an emperor anyway. He'll be 80 when a second term would end.

Hirohito was emperor until the age of 87