Fraud in Minnesomalia

[ZiprHead]

Has this fraud actuallybeen proven?

Good question. With some federally funded food programs, there is proof and convictions. That is not true with the child care fraud allegations.

Actually there is evidence that the ‘evidence’ was collected after hours when no children would have been present.

Yup. The guy that made the video has been caught faking other things previously.

 

[laughing dog]

Has this fraud actuallybeen proven?

Good question. With some federally funded food programs, there is proof and convictions. That is not true with the child care fraud allegations.

Actually there is evidence that the ‘evidence’ was collected after hours when no children would have been present.

Yup. The guy that made the video has been caught faking other things previously.

A number of the “fake” child care centers in the video that had “no” childrsn had locked doors and don’t let unauthorized people in. One of the
child care centers had been closed for weeks.

The video is basically garbage.

 

[Emily Lake]

You made unsupported claims about Somalis being “unassimilated.

First gen large scale immigrants rarely assimilate. Especially when the modern practice is to promote multiculturalism, which slows or halts assimilation.

It's not a hard rule, of course, but generally speaking, the initial adult immigrants don't assimilate very well. The children born of adult immigrants in the country of immigration overcorrect - they tend to reject their cultural heritage and adopt the new culture, sometimes in an almost caricatured fashion. The third generation (second gen born in country) tend to be well-assimilated, meaning that they actually acculturate to the new country but also retain some appreciation and respect for their heritage. That's where the melting occurs.

There's a significant amount of variation, of course. People immigrating from similar cultures assimilate very quickly; people from very different cultural backgrounds assimilate more slowly. Voluntary immigrants assimilate faster than refugees and asylum seekers. Immigrants who are geographically concentrated assimilate more slowly.

In the case of Somalis in Minnesota, you've got a large number of recent refugees who are geographically concentrated, and who come from a very different culture with significant differences in beliefs and values. In another 30 years they'll probably be assimilated, assuming we avoid balkanization.

IMO, without a definition that translates into observable assessment, your analysis isn’t very helpful to me.

It's funny how selective people are about sociology. If it supports whatever point they're trying to make, it magically becomes science, and often gets treated as if it's hard science. If it doesn't support whatever point they're trying to make, they just hand-wave it away.

The process of assimilation into a host culture isn't exactly a mysterious and new-fangles experiment with no observations behind it. But whatever. Apparently noting that a geographically concentrated group of refugee immigrants from an extremely different cultural background with a very different values and beliefs hasn't yet assimilated into US culture is a horrific insult that wounds you to your very core.

Instead of making excuses and insults, why not give a rational explanation for the basis of your conclusion other than “cuz I say so”. It ought to be easy since it is not a mysterious and new-fangled experiment.

A whole lot of work with demographics and marketing, with a lot of consideration for degree of assimilation and how that plays into how you design products and frame messaging over the course of many years...

You could just go do some basic research on cultural assimilation in immigrants over the course of generations. Or you can just decide to dismiss what I've said without bothering to give it any consideration or thought. Your choice.

You haven’t explained the basis for your claim that they have not assimilated or what you even mean by “assimilated “. Basic research on cultural assimilation shows that “assimilation” is a continuum. Until you are clear about what you mean, there is nothing you’ve said to dismiss.

The majority of the Somali residents came in as refugees in the mid 90s. That first wave are 1st gen immigrants, and as a generality, 1st gen do not culturally assimilate. They're geographically concentrated so they have a higher tendency to retain their parent country culture and values, and a lower tendency to integrate into the host culture - that's what happens when an immigrant community doesn't disperse.

You can see this in other parts of the country/world as well. Think about SF Chinatown, or Manhattan Koreatown - those concentrated communities retain a whole lot of their parent country cultures rather than assimilating into US culture, largely because there are a lot of people with that shared heritage in one place, which reduces the pressure to blend in with the host culture and fully integrate. When there's a high enough population in a small enough geography, that lack of assimilation persists through multiple generations. Chinatown in SF has been there for over a century, and even 4th and 5th gen residents aren't fully assimilated. They've retained a huge amount of their parent culture, ranging from language to architecture to cultural norms to beliefs. Visiting Chinatown in SF is almost like visiting a small foreign country embedded within a major US city.

Additionally, those Somali refugees came from an extremely different cultural background. They're pretty much entirely muslim, and islam has very different value and belief structures than either christianity or judaism, despite their shared history. As a religion, islam is pretty closed, and isn't welcoming to nonbelievers. Nonbelievers aren't invited into mosques as a generality, although exceptions are sometimes made. Services aren't conducted in English. The religious practices aren't modified to fit into the host culture in most cases, except to the extent required by law. Even then, those laws are often stretched or broken if they can get away with it. For example, in the US women are considered legally equal to men and have full rights as citizens on their own, freedom to move about as they desire, etc. But in many (not all) islamic communities, women are still under very strong cultural expectations to be subservient to their husbands, fathers, or other patriarchal figure, regardless of their individual desires. This is of course not true of all sects or all communities, nor is it limited to islam. We have other cults and conclaves of religions where the religious tenets override the wishes of their adherents.

Lastly, this is a community of refugees, not voluntary immigrants. Let's not quibble of the meaning of the word "voluntary" here. For this context, voluntary applies to people who independently chose to migrate to the US because they want to become American, and desire to adopt US values, norms, and culture. Refugees differ from this in that they didn't seek out the US because they want to be American, the were relocated to the US for their protection. There's a considerably difference between someone who flees a bad situation and is willing to go anywhere else to get away from it, and someone who really desires the destination on its own merits.

So we have four drivers at play, all of which slow down or impede cultural assimilation: Refugee status, cultural gap, geographic concentration of the parent culture, and recency of immigration. Each of those elements on its own is known to slow down or impede assimilation into the host culture. Combined, the resistance to assimilation becomes even larger.

 

[Emily Lake]

Autism therapy fraud is a thing that is going on in multiple states right now. It spans from diagnoses and treatment for non-existent people, to fraudulent diagnoses for non-autistic people, to billing for hours of therapy not actually delivered, to charging one-on-one therapies that are actually group settings, to billing for a clinical specialist's time when it was actually more like babysitting provided by a high school graduate who had a week of training to supervise a young child.

If defrauding a public health care program is a big issue, why is Rick Scott a senator? He defrauded Medicare MILLIONS.

Because people are dumb. What do you think your point is here?

That some people are inconsistent, perhaps to the point of hypocrisy. I’m specifically thinking of Trump and his surrogates. Tim Walz ran against Trump as the VP in the opposing party ticket. Furthermore, Walz repeatedly referred to Trump as ‘weird’ which was awfully mild. I thought he should have called him a convicted criminal, credibly accused rapist, adjudicated rapist Abd almost certainly a pedophile, in addition to being a traitor and an insurrectionist. That would have been more honest. He’s also a blatant racist and sexist, as are many of his supporters. Trump is well known to hold grudges and engage in vendetta against those he feels slighted him. Trump’s persecution of Minnesota, California and Washington state is personal and also red meat to his fan base.

Again... what is your point? I don't contest any of that, I just don't see that it makes any material difference here.

Do you think that Trump being an asshole excuses widespread medical fraud, or makes it less of a big deal? I get that you hate Trump. I mean, you really don't have to keep saying the same things over and over and over (collective you) - I get it already. So the fuck what? "Trump bad" doesn't make other assholes good, nor does it mean that *we* should turn a blind eye to fraud just because *someone else* turned a blind eye to Trump's misbehavior.

 

[Emily Lake]

You made unsupported claims about Somalis being “unassimilated.

First gen large scale immigrants rarely assimilate. Especially when the modern practice is to promote multiculturalism, which slows or halts assimilation.

It's not a hard rule, of course, but generally speaking, the initial adult immigrants don't assimilate very well. The children born of adult immigrants in the country of immigration overcorrect - they tend to reject their cultural heritage and adopt the new culture, sometimes in an almost caricatured fashion. The third generation (second gen born in country) tend to be well-assimilated, meaning that they actually acculturate to the new country but also retain some appreciation and respect for their heritage. That's where the melting occurs.

There's a significant amount of variation, of course. People immigrating from similar cultures assimilate very quickly; people from very different cultural backgrounds assimilate more slowly. Voluntary immigrants assimilate faster than refugees and asylum seekers. Immigrants who are geographically concentrated assimilate more slowly.

In the case of Somalis in Minnesota, you've got a large number of recent refugees who are geographically concentrated, and who come from a very different culture with significant differences in beliefs and values. In another 30 years they'll probably be assimilated, assuming we avoid balkanization.

IMO, without a definition that translates into observable assessment, your analysis isn’t very helpful to me.

It's funny how selective people are about sociology. If it supports whatever point they're trying to make, it magically becomes science, and often gets treated as if it's hard science. If it doesn't support whatever point they're trying to make, they just hand-wave it away.

The process of assimilation into a host culture isn't exactly a mysterious and new-fangles experiment with no observations behind it. But whatever. Apparently noting that a geographically concentrated group of refugee immigrants from an extremely different cultural background with a very different values and beliefs hasn't yet assimilated into US culture is a horrific insult that wounds you to your very core.

Instead of making excuses and insults, why not give a rational explanation for the basis of your conclusion other than “cuz I say so”. It ought to be easy since it is not a mysterious and new-fangled experiment.

A whole lot of work with demographics and marketing, with a lot of consideration for degree of assimilation and how that plays into how you design products and frame messaging over the course of many years...

You could just go do some basic research on cultural assimilation in immigrants over the course of generations. Or you can just decide to dismiss what I've said without bothering to give it any consideration or thought. Your choice.

You haven’t explained the basis for your claim that they have not assimilated or what you even mean by “assimilated “. Basic research on cultural assimilation shows that “assimilation” is a continuum. Until you are clear about what you mean, there is nothing you’ve said to dismiss.

I think they mean that the Somalis are still black and largely Muslim.

If you feel compelled to take jabs at me to an extent that you can't control yourself, just come out and fucking say it instead of this backhanded made up bullshit.

Skin color has nothing at all to do with assimilation. Religion has a material impact, and it's not somehow bigoted to be aware of that. If a group of mormon moved to Afghanistan, they wouldn't integrate into a predominantly muslim culture very quickly either.

 

[laughing dog]

You made unsupported claims about Somalis being “unassimilated.

First gen large scale immigrants rarely assimilate. Especially when the modern practice is to promote multiculturalism, which slows or halts assimilation.

It's not a hard rule, of course, but generally speaking, the initial adult immigrants don't assimilate very well. The children born of adult immigrants in the country of immigration overcorrect - they tend to reject their cultural heritage and adopt the new culture, sometimes in an almost caricatured fashion. The third generation (second gen born in country) tend to be well-assimilated, meaning that they actually acculturate to the new country but also retain some appreciation and respect for their heritage. That's where the melting occurs.

There's a significant amount of variation, of course. People immigrating from similar cultures assimilate very quickly; people from very different cultural backgrounds assimilate more slowly. Voluntary immigrants assimilate faster than refugees and asylum seekers. Immigrants who are geographically concentrated assimilate more slowly.

In the case of Somalis in Minnesota, you've got a large number of recent refugees who are geographically concentrated, and who come from a very different culture with significant differences in beliefs and values. In another 30 years they'll probably be assimilated, assuming we avoid balkanization.

IMO, without a definition that translates into observable assessment, your analysis isn’t very helpful to me.

It's funny how selective people are about sociology. If it supports whatever point they're trying to make, it magically becomes science, and often gets treated as if it's hard science. If it doesn't support whatever point they're trying to make, they just hand-wave it away.

The process of assimilation into a host culture isn't exactly a mysterious and new-fangles experiment with no observations behind it. But whatever. Apparently noting that a geographically concentrated group of refugee immigrants from an extremely different cultural background with a very different values and beliefs hasn't yet assimilated into US culture is a horrific insult that wounds you to your very core.

Instead of making excuses and insults, why not give a rational explanation for the basis of your conclusion other than “cuz I say so”. It ought to be easy since it is not a mysterious and new-fangled experiment.

A whole lot of work with demographics and marketing, with a lot of consideration for degree of assimilation and how that plays into how you design products and frame messaging over the course of many years...

You could just go do some basic research on cultural assimilation in immigrants over the course of generations. Or you can just decide to dismiss what I've said without bothering to give it any consideration or thought. Your choice.

You haven’t explained the basis for your claim that they have not assimilated or what you even mean by “assimilated “. Basic research on cultural assimilation shows that “assimilation” is a continuum. Until you are clear about what you mean, there is nothing you’ve said to dismiss.

The majority of the Somali residents came in as refugees in the mid 90s. That first wave are 1st gen immigrants, and as a generality, 1st gen do not culturally assimilate. They're geographically concentrated so they have a higher tendency to retain their parent country culture and values, and a lower tendency to integrate into the host culture - that's what happens when an immigrant community doesn't disperse.

You can see this in other parts of the country/world as well. Think about SF Chinatown, or Manhattan Koreatown - those concentrated communities retain a whole lot of their parent country cultures rather than assimilating into US culture, largely because there are a lot of people with that shared heritage in one place, which reduces the pressure to blend in with the host culture and fully integrate. When there's a high enough population in a small enough geography, that lack of assimilation persists through multiple generations. Chinatown in SF has been there for over a century, and even 4th and 5th gen residents aren't fully assimilated. They've retained a huge amount of their parent culture, ranging from language to architecture to cultural norms to beliefs. Visiting Chinatown in SF is almost like visiting a small foreign country embedded within a major US city.

Additionally, those Somali refugees came from an extremely different cultural background. They're pretty much entirely muslim, and islam has very different value and belief structures than either christianity or judaism, despite their shared history. As a religion, islam is pretty closed, and isn't welcoming to nonbelievers. Nonbelievers aren't invited into mosques as a generality, although exceptions are sometimes made. Services aren't conducted in English. The religious practices aren't modified to fit into the host culture in most cases, except to the extent required by law. Even then, those laws are often stretched or broken if they can get away with it. For example, in the US women are considered legally equal to men and have full rights as citizens on their own, freedom to move about as they desire, etc. But in many (not all) islamic communities, women are still under very strong cultural expectations to be subservient to their husbands, fathers, or other patriarchal figure, regardless of their individual desires. This is of course not true of all sects or all communities, nor is it limited to islam. We have other cults and conclaves of religions where the religious tenets override the wishes of their adherents.

Lastly, this is a community of refugees, not voluntary immigrants. Let's not quibble of the meaning of the word "voluntary" here. For this context, voluntary applies to people who independently chose to migrate to the US because they want to become American, and desire to adopt US values, norms, and culture. Refugees differ from this in that they didn't seek out the US because they want to be American, the were relocated to the US for their protection. There's a considerably difference between someone who flees a bad situation and is willing to go anywhere else to get away from it, and someone who really desires the destination on its own merits.

So we have four drivers at play, all of which slow down or impede cultural assimilation: Refugee status, cultural gap, geographic concentration of the parent culture, and recency of immigration. Each of those elements on its own is known to slow down or impede assimilation into the host culture. Combined, the resistance to assimilation becomes even larger.

Long on assumptions, short on verification. You’ve given a narrative describing the historical and sociological reasons why one would not expect the Somalis to have assimilated. But you have not described what you mean by “assimilated “ nor given actual observations of the actions of Somali community in Mn that buttress your claim.

I ask, because in my experience, the many Somalis I’ve encountered and dealt with in many different situations seem assimilated to me. I know it’s anecdotal, but my sample is not small.

 

[Toni]

You made unsupported claims about Somalis being “unassimilated.

First gen large scale immigrants rarely assimilate. Especially when the modern practice is to promote multiculturalism, which slows or halts assimilation.

It's not a hard rule, of course, but generally speaking, the initial adult immigrants don't assimilate very well. The children born of adult immigrants in the country of immigration overcorrect - they tend to reject their cultural heritage and adopt the new culture, sometimes in an almost caricatured fashion. The third generation (second gen born in country) tend to be well-assimilated, meaning that they actually acculturate to the new country but also retain some appreciation and respect for their heritage. That's where the melting occurs.

There's a significant amount of variation, of course. People immigrating from similar cultures assimilate very quickly; people from very different cultural backgrounds assimilate more slowly. Voluntary immigrants assimilate faster than refugees and asylum seekers. Immigrants who are geographically concentrated assimilate more slowly.

In the case of Somalis in Minnesota, you've got a large number of recent refugees who are geographically concentrated, and who come from a very different culture with significant differences in beliefs and values. In another 30 years they'll probably be assimilated, assuming we avoid balkanization.

IMO, without a definition that translates into observable assessment, your analysis isn’t very helpful to me.

It's funny how selective people are about sociology. If it supports whatever point they're trying to make, it magically becomes science, and often gets treated as if it's hard science. If it doesn't support whatever point they're trying to make, they just hand-wave it away.

The process of assimilation into a host culture isn't exactly a mysterious and new-fangles experiment with no observations behind it. But whatever. Apparently noting that a geographically concentrated group of refugee immigrants from an extremely different cultural background with a very different values and beliefs hasn't yet assimilated into US culture is a horrific insult that wounds you to your very core.

Instead of making excuses and insults, why not give a rational explanation for the basis of your conclusion other than “cuz I say so”. It ought to be easy since it is not a mysterious and new-fangled experiment.

A whole lot of work with demographics and marketing, with a lot of consideration for degree of assimilation and how that plays into how you design products and frame messaging over the course of many years...

You could just go do some basic research on cultural assimilation in immigrants over the course of generations. Or you can just decide to dismiss what I've said without bothering to give it any consideration or thought. Your choice.

You haven’t explained the basis for your claim that they have not assimilated or what you even mean by “assimilated “. Basic research on cultural assimilation shows that “assimilation” is a continuum. Until you are clear about what you mean, there is nothing you’ve said to dismiss.

I think they mean that the Somalis are still black and largely Muslim.

If you feel compelled to take jabs at me to an extent that you can't control yourself, just come out and fucking say it instead of this backhanded made up bullshit.

Skin color has nothing at all to do with assimilation. Religion has a material impact, and it's not somehow bigoted to be aware of that. If a group of mormon moved to Afghanistan, they wouldn't integrate into a predominantly muslim culture very quickly either.

Oh, Emily! That wasn’t about you. If the shoe doesn’t fit, why complain? Just don’t wear it.

How well do you think that Amish are ‘integrated’ into US society? Fundamentalist LDS members? Hasidic Jews?

Have you ever been to Chinatown? Little Korea? Little Italy? I recall a friend talking about his Italian American grandmother who never learned to speak English.

In my town, a couple of generations ago and a century before that, people of Polish descent lived on one side of a major street and people of German or Norwegian descent lived on the other and nobody crossed that street.

In many cities, towns and communities, people of similar backgrounds—religious, ethnic, class tend to live in clusters, generations after their ancestors immigrated.

Which reminds me: What about white peopke in the United States? Talk about failing to assimilate! We killed off most of the people living here and shoved the rest onto reservations or drove them underground so that many people with indigenous roots hid that ancestry. Of course, there are always those who claim to be 1/8 or 1/16. Or 1/32 Cherokee.

 

[Toni]

Autism therapy fraud is a thing that is going on in multiple states right now. It spans from diagnoses and treatment for non-existent people, to fraudulent diagnoses for non-autistic people, to billing for hours of therapy not actually delivered, to charging one-on-one therapies that are actually group settings, to billing for a clinical specialist's time when it was actually more like babysitting provided by a high school graduate who had a week of training to supervise a young child.

If defrauding a public health care program is a big issue, why is Rick Scott a senator? He defrauded Medicare MILLIONS.

Because people are dumb. What do you think your point is here?

That some people are inconsistent, perhaps to the point of hypocrisy. I’m specifically thinking of Trump and his surrogates. Tim Walz ran against Trump as the VP in the opposing party ticket. Furthermore, Walz repeatedly referred to Trump as ‘weird’ which was awfully mild. I thought he should have called him a convicted criminal, credibly accused rapist, adjudicated rapist Abd almost certainly a pedophile, in addition to being a traitor and an insurrectionist. That would have been more honest. He’s also a blatant racist and sexist, as are many of his supporters. Trump is well known to hold grudges and engage in vendetta against those he feels slighted him. Trump’s persecution of Minnesota, California and Washington state is personal and also red meat to his fan base.

Again... what is your point? I don't contest any of that, I just don't see that it makes any material difference here.

Do you think that Trump being an asshole excuses widespread medical fraud, or makes it less of a big deal? I get that you hate Trump. I mean, you really don't have to keep saying the same things over and over and over (collective you) - I get it already. So the fuck what? "Trump bad" doesn't make other assholes good, nor does it mean that *we* should turn a blind eye to fraud just because *someone else* turned a blind eye to Trump's misbehavior.

No, Emily—you do not understand the basic facts of the ‘fraud’ in Minnesota. First of all, it was discovered and reported to the federal govt. in 2021 or 2022 —fairly quickly! and investigated by the FBI AT THAT TIME and also prosecuted years ago. The actual amount of fraud is also disputed. And it was instigated by a white woman.

See: https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/dozens-charged-in-250-million-covid-fraud-scheme-092122

Trump’s outrage is political theater, particularly in light of the pardons he issued for others who are his supporters who also engaged in massive fraud. Or who have never been prosecuted but who may still fe of political use to Trump ( cough cough Rick Scott).

No one is excusing fraud—except for Trump for his fraud committing surrogates. Trump is dredging up old news as political payback. Which is why he’s sent ICE to terrorize Minnesotans.

 

[Emily Lake]

You made unsupported claims about Somalis being “unassimilated.

First gen large scale immigrants rarely assimilate. Especially when the modern practice is to promote multiculturalism, which slows or halts assimilation.

It's not a hard rule, of course, but generally speaking, the initial adult immigrants don't assimilate very well. The children born of adult immigrants in the country of immigration overcorrect - they tend to reject their cultural heritage and adopt the new culture, sometimes in an almost caricatured fashion. The third generation (second gen born in country) tend to be well-assimilated, meaning that they actually acculturate to the new country but also retain some appreciation and respect for their heritage. That's where the melting occurs.

There's a significant amount of variation, of course. People immigrating from similar cultures assimilate very quickly; people from very different cultural backgrounds assimilate more slowly. Voluntary immigrants assimilate faster than refugees and asylum seekers. Immigrants who are geographically concentrated assimilate more slowly.

In the case of Somalis in Minnesota, you've got a large number of recent refugees who are geographically concentrated, and who come from a very different culture with significant differences in beliefs and values. In another 30 years they'll probably be assimilated, assuming we avoid balkanization.

IMO, without a definition that translates into observable assessment, your analysis isn’t very helpful to me.

It's funny how selective people are about sociology. If it supports whatever point they're trying to make, it magically becomes science, and often gets treated as if it's hard science. If it doesn't support whatever point they're trying to make, they just hand-wave it away.

The process of assimilation into a host culture isn't exactly a mysterious and new-fangles experiment with no observations behind it. But whatever. Apparently noting that a geographically concentrated group of refugee immigrants from an extremely different cultural background with a very different values and beliefs hasn't yet assimilated into US culture is a horrific insult that wounds you to your very core.

Instead of making excuses and insults, why not give a rational explanation for the basis of your conclusion other than “cuz I say so”. It ought to be easy since it is not a mysterious and new-fangled experiment.

A whole lot of work with demographics and marketing, with a lot of consideration for degree of assimilation and how that plays into how you design products and frame messaging over the course of many years...

You could just go do some basic research on cultural assimilation in immigrants over the course of generations. Or you can just decide to dismiss what I've said without bothering to give it any consideration or thought. Your choice.

You haven’t explained the basis for your claim that they have not assimilated or what you even mean by “assimilated “. Basic research on cultural assimilation shows that “assimilation” is a continuum. Until you are clear about what you mean, there is nothing you’ve said to dismiss.

I think they mean that the Somalis are still black and largely Muslim.

If you feel compelled to take jabs at me to an extent that you can't control yourself, just come out and fucking say it instead of this backhanded made up bullshit.

Skin color has nothing at all to do with assimilation. Religion has a material impact, and it's not somehow bigoted to be aware of that. If a group of mormon moved to Afghanistan, they wouldn't integrate into a predominantly muslim culture very quickly either.

Oh, Emily! That wasn’t about you. If the shoe doesn’t fit, why complain? Just don’t wear it.

I'm the one in this discussion string. Why would I assume you're talking about someone else when you're directly responding to a conversation between me, you, and LD?

If the shoe isn't meant for me, don't throw it at my head.

How well do you think that Amish are ‘integrated’ into US society? Fundamentalist LDS members? Hasidic Jews?

Not very well on all accounts. Fundy LDS arguably more than the Hasidic Jews, Jews more than Amish or Mennonites.

Have you ever been to Chinatown? Little Korea? Little Italy? I recall a friend talking about his Italian American grandmother who never learned to speak English.

In my town, a couple of generations ago and a century before that, people of Polish descent lived on one side of a major street and people of German or Norwegian descent lived on the other and nobody crossed that street.

In many cities, towns and communities, people of similar backgrounds—religious, ethnic, class tend to live in clusters, generations after their ancestors immigrated.

Are you working from the assumption that "unassimilated" is some kind of insult or derogatory term?

Which reminds me: What about white peopke in the United States? Talk about failing to assimilate! We killed off most of the people living here and shoved the rest onto reservations or drove them underground so that many people with indigenous roots hid that ancestry. Of course, there are always those who claim to be 1/8 or 1/16. Or 1/32 Cherokee.

*Sigh* Yes, you're right. Some hundreds of years ago some white people who I'm not at all related to came over with a more technologically advanced culture, a more cohesive set of values shared by a larger population, and the overrode the existing undeveloped indigenous population and were complete assholes to them.

So the fuck what? The romans overrode the gauls, nords, angles and saxons and imposed their culture over that of less advanced civilizations. Before that, the Greeks did the same thing to a substantial portion of the groups living around the mediterranean. And before that, the Babylonians did the same thing to pretty much everyone they could reach.

What's your point supposed to be other than "white people bad"? Do you *want* to see US culture subsumed by islam, and see a sharia-governed theocracy put in place instead? Otherwise, what point do you think you're making here?

 

[Emily Lake]

Autism therapy fraud is a thing that is going on in multiple states right now. It spans from diagnoses and treatment for non-existent people, to fraudulent diagnoses for non-autistic people, to billing for hours of therapy not actually delivered, to charging one-on-one therapies that are actually group settings, to billing for a clinical specialist's time when it was actually more like babysitting provided by a high school graduate who had a week of training to supervise a young child.

If defrauding a public health care program is a big issue, why is Rick Scott a senator? He defrauded Medicare MILLIONS.

Because people are dumb. What do you think your point is here?

That some people are inconsistent, perhaps to the point of hypocrisy. I’m specifically thinking of Trump and his surrogates. Tim Walz ran against Trump as the VP in the opposing party ticket. Furthermore, Walz repeatedly referred to Trump as ‘weird’ which was awfully mild. I thought he should have called him a convicted criminal, credibly accused rapist, adjudicated rapist Abd almost certainly a pedophile, in addition to being a traitor and an insurrectionist. That would have been more honest. He’s also a blatant racist and sexist, as are many of his supporters. Trump is well known to hold grudges and engage in vendetta against those he feels slighted him. Trump’s persecution of Minnesota, California and Washington state is personal and also red meat to his fan base.

Again... what is your point? I don't contest any of that, I just don't see that it makes any material difference here.

Do you think that Trump being an asshole excuses widespread medical fraud, or makes it less of a big deal? I get that you hate Trump. I mean, you really don't have to keep saying the same things over and over and over (collective you) - I get it already. So the fuck what? "Trump bad" doesn't make other assholes good, nor does it mean that *we* should turn a blind eye to fraud just because *someone else* turned a blind eye to Trump's misbehavior.

No, Emily—you do not understand the basic facts of the ‘fraud’ in Minnesota. First of all, it was discovered and reported to the federal govt. in 2021 or 2022 —fairly quickly! and investigated by the FBI AT THAT TIME and also prosecuted years ago. The actual amount of fraud is also disputed. And it was instigated by a white woman.

See: https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/dozens-charged-in-250-million-covid-fraud-scheme-092122

Trump’s outrage is political theater, particularly in light of the pardons he issued for others who are his supporters who also engaged in massive fraud. Or who have never been prosecuted but who may still fe of political use to Trump ( cough cough Rick Scott).

No one is excusing fraud—except for Trump for his fraud committing surrogates. Trump is dredging up old news as political payback. Which is why he’s sent ICE to terrorize Minnesotans.

And all of this is relevant to widespread medical fraud being a problem how?

I don't give a fuck about who did what first. I don't care that you are seriously devoted to "orange man bad". Whether the orange man is bad or not is completely irrelevant to how much fraud we should tolerate and what we should do about it.

It's being politicized by asshats on the internet. That doesn't make it a one-side problem.

 

[Toni]

Autism therapy fraud is a thing that is going on in multiple states right now. It spans from diagnoses and treatment for non-existent people, to fraudulent diagnoses for non-autistic people, to billing for hours of therapy not actually delivered, to charging one-on-one therapies that are actually group settings, to billing for a clinical specialist's time when it was actually more like babysitting provided by a high school graduate who had a week of training to supervise a young child.

If defrauding a public health care program is a big issue, why is Rick Scott a senator? He defrauded Medicare MILLIONS.

Because people are dumb. What do you think your point is here?

That some people are inconsistent, perhaps to the point of hypocrisy. I’m specifically thinking of Trump and his surrogates. Tim Walz ran against Trump as the VP in the opposing party ticket. Furthermore, Walz repeatedly referred to Trump as ‘weird’ which was awfully mild. I thought he should have called him a convicted criminal, credibly accused rapist, adjudicated rapist Abd almost certainly a pedophile, in addition to being a traitor and an insurrectionist. That would have been more honest. He’s also a blatant racist and sexist, as are many of his supporters. Trump is well known to hold grudges and engage in vendetta against those he feels slighted him. Trump’s persecution of Minnesota, California and Washington state is personal and also red meat to his fan base.

Again... what is your point? I don't contest any of that, I just don't see that it makes any material difference here.

Do you think that Trump being an asshole excuses widespread medical fraud, or makes it less of a big deal? I get that you hate Trump. I mean, you really don't have to keep saying the same things over and over and over (collective you) - I get it already. So the fuck what? "Trump bad" doesn't make other assholes good, nor does it mean that *we* should turn a blind eye to fraud just because *someone else* turned a blind eye to Trump's misbehavior.

No, Emily—you do not understand the basic facts of the ‘fraud’ in Minnesota. First of all, it was discovered and reported to the federal govt. in 2021 or 2022 —fairly quickly! and investigated by the FBI AT THAT TIME and also prosecuted years ago. The actual amount of fraud is also disputed. And it was instigated by a white woman.

See: https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/dozens-charged-in-250-million-covid-fraud-scheme-092122

Trump’s outrage is political theater, particularly in light of the pardons he issued for others who are his supporters who also engaged in massive fraud. Or who have never been prosecuted but who may still fe of political use to Trump ( cough cough Rick Scott).

No one is excusing fraud—except for Trump for his fraud committing surrogates. Trump is dredging up old news as political payback. Which is why he’s sent ICE to terrorize Minnesotans.

And all of this is relevant to widespread medical fraud being a problem how?

I don't give a fuck about who did what first. I don't care that you are seriously devoted to "orange man bad". Whether the orange man is bad or not is completely irrelevant to how much fraud we should tolerate and what we should do about it.

It's being politicized by asshats on the internet. That doesn't make it a one-side problem.

It’s being politicized by the sitting POTUS, which should be of extreme concern to all of us.

Do you really think you are safe from being a target? None of us are.

 

[laughing dog]

I don't give a fuck about who did what first. I don't care that you are seriously devoted to "orange man bad". Whether the orange man is bad or not is completely irrelevant to how much fraud we should tolerate and what we should do about it.

Except there is no evidence of fraud in child care centers in Mn.

The state alerted the FBI about food assistance aid in Mn.

if fraud is the issue, why is a trigger happy army of ICE agents invading Mn instead of accountants?

It's being politicized by asshats on the internet. That doesn't make it a one-side problem.

Operationally, it does.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Has this fraud actuallybeen proven?

Good question. With some federally funded food programs, there is proof and convictions. That is not true with the child care fraud allegations.

Actually there is evidence that the ‘evidence’ was collected after hours when no children would have been present.

Yup. The guy that made the video has been caught faking other things previously.

The child care thing is a repeat of the Acorn "scandal".

 

[ZiprHead]

The child care thing is a repeat of the Acorn "scandal".

Project Veritas was my first thought when I heard about this.

 

[scombrid]

If the GOP cared about fraud the Rick Scott wouldn’t be a senator, Trump Taj Mahal wouldn’t be president, and the DeVos family would be in jail for the AmWay scam.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[laughing dog]

Where’s ICE when you need them?

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Politesse]

What were they supposedly getting out of this supposed fraud?

 

[Playball40]

Has this fraud actuallybeen proven?

Good question. With some federally funded food programs, there is proof and convictions. That is not true with the child care fraud allegations.

Actually there is evidence that the ‘evidence’ was collected after hours when no children would have been present.

Yup. The guy that made the video has been caught faking other things previously.

A number of the “fake” child care centers in the video that had “no” childrsn had locked doors and don’t let unauthorized people in. One of the
child care centers had been closed for weeks.

The video is basically garbage.

Apparently he claimed "fraud" for every center that legally did NOT ALLOW HIM IN to video tape. After researching the "fraud" allegations, I call bullshit completely.