Freddie Gray dies a week after being injured during arrest

[Jimmy Higgins]

Wait, we're saying that a second prisoner was added to a separate section of a van after the events of the arrest and after a 25 minute drive and that in those five minutes, he heard a guy who we know from later facts is in the process of dying from a severed spinal cord and breathing problems, he heard the guy banging?

I presume he heard it from outside the van when the van came to pick up the second prisoner. According to articles, at that point, the guy is on the floor of the van. Probably makes one wonder if he was causing a commotion because, I don't know, he was trying to let people know he was on the floor of the van.

And isn't the second prisoner getting picked up 5 minutes before they send the guy to the hospital?

 

[ksen]

Freddie Gray investigative files go to prosecutors, police say

Police have handed their Freddie Gray investigative files over to prosecutors a day earlier than planned, police officials said Thursday, adding that newly discovered evidence in the case indicates the transport van made a previously unreported stop before delivering Gray to the precinct.

They probably just stopped to help a woman deliver a baby.

 

[Rhea]

Aaah yes the new stop, which "was discovered from a privately owned camera," we are only admitting because someone caught us on camera proving that we lied about the arrest timeline, Davis said Thursday, came between the first and second stops.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Freddie Gray investigative files go to prosecutors, police say

Police have handed their Freddie Gray investigative files over to prosecutors a day earlier than planned, police officials said Thursday, adding that newly discovered evidence in the case indicates the transport van made a previously unreported stop before delivering Gray to the precinct.

They probably just stopped to help a woman deliver a baby.

Previously unreported? Oh, yeah. We stopped to beat the fuck out of him, then went to pick up that second guy.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

As suspected the story is false.

Those reports — which raise questions about the injury that led to his death in April 19 — point to Howard County court records as proof.

But court records examined Wednesday by The Baltimore Sun show the case had nothing to do with a car accident or a spine injury. Instead, they are connected to a lawsuit alleging that Gray and his sister were injured by exposure lead paint.

And the genetics of big scary black men with spines hardened by slavery marches on.

The link you failed to include: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-gray-settlement-20150429-story.html


It's talking about the structured settlement, this is in no way a rebuttal of the issue of spinal surgery.

And where was the spinal surgery done then?

The article has nothing relevant to whether there was or wasn't spinal surgery. All they are showing is that the settlement money had nothing to do with a car accident--but if he just had spinal surgery due to a car accident it's almost certainly not yet a settled case for a structured settlement to make any sense.

Thus this article is a total red herring that's only pretending to be a rebuttal.

- - - Updated - - -

As suspected the story is false.

Those reports — which raise questions about the injury that led to his death in April 19 — point to Howard County court records as proof.

But court records examined Wednesday by The Baltimore Sun show the case had nothing to do with a car accident or a spine injury. Instead, they are connected to a lawsuit alleging that Gray and his sister were injured by exposure lead paint.

And the genetics of big scary black men with spines hardened by slavery marches on.

The link you failed to include: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-gray-settlement-20150429-story.html


It's talking about the structured settlement, this is in no way a rebuttal of the issue of spinal surgery.

To be fair, the spinal surgery story came out of nowhere and is not sourced. There's nothing really to rebut about it.

True--we have no good support for the spinal surgery claim; I consider it a reasonable possibility but certainly not proven. However, I'm saying that this "rebuttal" is laughable.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Where is the video with police abuse?
The one I saw contains police dragging a guy who is clearly not well and screaming into the van. He is not even resisting because he can't I think.
I would say his was neck broken before they started to drag him.
So if anything happened it happened before the van.

Watch carefully--when the police take him off the curb he stands for a moment.

Furthermore, note the position of his legs as he's being dragged--if he was paralyzed at that point they would be limp, but they aren't. While he could have suffered a partial fracture during the arrest that's as far as it could have gone.

- - - Updated - - -

How convenient.

A*prisoner claims*Freddie Gray could be heard "banging against the walls" of a Baltimore police van and might have been trying to hurt himself, the Washington Post reports*Wednesday.

The Post obtained a police document, an application for a search warrant, in which the prisoner*makes his claims about Gray. The prisoner, who is in jail but not identified, was separated from Gray by a metal partition and could not see him.

It is not known if there is any other evidence to back up the prisoner's claim, the Post reports.

Gray, 25, died one week after reportedly suffering a serious spinal injury while in police custody on April 12. Police say it's unknown if Gray was injured while being arrested or while he was in the van.

Yeah, I saw that in the paper. I disagree with the witness--if he was banging on the walls I doubt it was an attempt to injure himself.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

As suspected the story is false.

Those reports — which raise questions about the injury that led to his death in April 19 — point to Howard County court records as proof.

But court records examined Wednesday by The Baltimore Sun show the case had nothing to do with a car accident or a spine injury. Instead, they are connected to a lawsuit alleging that Gray and his sister were injured by exposure lead paint.

And the genetics of big scary black men with spines hardened by slavery marches on.

The link you failed to include: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-gray-settlement-20150429-story.html


It's talking about the structured settlement, this is in no way a rebuttal of the issue of spinal surgery.

And where was the spinal surgery done then?

The article has nothing relevant to whether there was or wasn't spinal surgery. All they are showing is that the settlement money had nothing to do with a car accident--but if he just had spinal surgery due to a car accident it's almost certainly not yet a settled case for a structured settlement to make any sense.

Thus this article is a total red herring that's only pretending to be a rebuttal.

The article that you supplied that explains what the "evidence" presented by untrustworthy sources that he had spine surgery actually was? (Hint: The "evidence" was for a court settlement for lead paint lawsuit.)

Now if dismissing the only evidence (after finding out it is false) from the sources is not a rebuttal, then I'm not sure what constitutes one.

True--we have no good support for the spinal surgery claim; I consider it a reasonable possibility but certainly not proven.

Spine surgeries are not common enough to suspect a large percentage of people to have undergone them recently. Why would you consider this a possibility?

However, I'm saying that this "rebuttal" is laughable.

So a reporter looking into a fantastic claim and discovering that the claim is not true is laughable?

 

[arkirk]

Would it be fair to say that if, at some point, this guy's spinal cord was 80% severed, he was severely mistreated at some point in his arrest or detainment? It looks like his crime was eye contact. Wow! What a heinous crime! Cops have to understand that not everybody they encounter should be manhandled. Jailers and paddy wagon personnel need to understand that people should be safe in their vehicles and cells. It probably is not significant that this prisoner had a serious liability which was not considered by these ignorant poorly trained personnel. Quite simply, they killed this man, whether there was a precondition or not.

Their excuses sicken and disgust me. This is an escalating general problem with cops. Their actions are also the causal factor in whether or not the local people riot or whatever else you want to call it. If they had not murdered this man, there would have not been this level of disorder.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Would it be fair to say that if, at some point, this guy's spinal cord was 80% severed, he was severely mistreated at some point in his arrest or detainment? It looks like his crime was eye contact. Wow! What a heinous crime! Cops have to understand that not everybody they encounter should be manhandled. Jailers and paddy wagon personnel need to understand that people should be safe in their vehicles and cells. It probably is not significant that this prisoner had a serious liability which was not considered by these ignorant poorly trained personnel. Quite simply, they killed this man, whether there was a precondition or not.

Their excuses sicken and disgust me. This is an escalating general problem with cops. Their actions are also the causal factor in whether or not the local people riot or whatever else you want to call it. If they had not murdered this man, there would have not been this level of disorder.

Except the cops were in an area where a lot of drug trafficking occurs, Freddie spots the police and he starts to run, that's going to raise suspicion of the cops and they will chase. I'm waiting for the full autopsy to see if they can determine where and how the spinal injuries occurred and if he had spinal surgery prior to the event.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

if he had spinal surgery prior to the event.

Why are people waiting for this evidence if nobody except a unreliable blogger claims it?

If I post that he fell out a 30-story building the day before on a random blog and my evidence is refuted by reporters are folks like you going to keep waiting to hear about his fall out of a 30-story building?

 

[coloradoatheist]

if he had spinal surgery prior to the event.

Why are people waiting for this evidence if nobody except a unreliable blogger claims it?

If I post that he fell out a 30-story building the day before on a random blog and my evidence is refuted by reporters are folks like you going to keep waiting to hear about his fall out of a 30-story building?

It wasn't refuted though but the burden of proof would be on the ones claiming that he fell out of a 30 story building.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Why are people waiting for this evidence if nobody except a unreliable blogger claims it?

If I post that he fell out a 30-story building the day before on a random blog and my evidence is refuted by reporters are folks like you going to keep waiting to hear about his fall out of a 30-story building?

It wasn't refuted though but the burden of proof would be on the ones claiming that he fell out of a 30 story building.

But the surgery was refuted and we have people believing it is a probably scenario.

 

[ksen]

Why are people waiting for this evidence if nobody except a unreliable blogger claims it?

If I post that he fell out a 30-story building the day before on a random blog and my evidence is refuted by reporters are folks like you going to keep waiting to hear about his fall out of a 30-story building?

It wasn't refuted though but the burden of proof would be on the ones claiming that he fell out of a 30 story building.

So when the report relied upon to claim a spinal surgery ends up being shown to actually be about exposure to lead paint that's not a refutation of the spinal surgery claim?

Then what would a refutation need to look like?

eta:

https://www.google.com/search?newwi...f=1...0...1.1.64.hp..17.10.1548.0.FctEEINasPs

 

[coloradoatheist]

It wasn't refuted though but the burden of proof would be on the ones claiming that he fell out of a 30 story building.

But the surgery was refuted and we have people believing it is a probably scenario.

Not quite. The autopsy would be the one that refutes the story of any possible spine surgery. Let's wait for the autopsy, but in this day and age, it doesn't.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

But the surgery was refuted and we have people believing it is a probably scenario.

Not quite. The autopsy would be the one that refutes the story of any possible spine surgery. Let's wait for the autopsy, but in this day and age, it doesn't.

Why would you suspect surgery had been performed in the first place? What makes it a plausible scenario? And what makes it more plausible than a fall from a building?

 

[ksen]

Freddie Gray received spinal surgery from a bolt in the back of the police van

Freddie Gray sustained his fatal injuries inside a police van when his head slammed into a bolt in the back of the vehicle, a Baltimore TV news station has reported after claiming to have received multiple briefings on a police report and the interim findings of the medical examiner’s office reviewing the 25-year-old’s death.

An injury on Gray’s head is said to have matched a bolt in the back of the police van, according to ABC local news, who also reported that the only police officer involved in Gray’s arrest and detention yet to have provided an account to the police was the van’s driver.

Now don't you surgery deniers feel stupid?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Now don't you surgery deniers feel stupid?

Wow. Obamacare sucks. Not even Blue Cross used that as a surgery technique.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Freddie Gray received spinal surgery from a bolt in the back of the police van

Freddie Gray sustained his fatal injuries inside a police van when his head slammed into a bolt in the back of the vehicle, a Baltimore TV news station has reported after claiming to have received multiple briefings on a police report and the interim findings of the medical examiner’s office reviewing the 25-year-old’s death.

An injury on Gray’s head is said to have matched a bolt in the back of the police van, according to ABC local news, who also reported that the only police officer involved in Gray’s arrest and detention yet to have provided an account to the police was the van’s driver.

Now don't you surgery deniers feel stupid?

Well to be honest with you the story was from law enforcement, so be a little skeptical until there is confirmation.

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2015/0...s-result-of-police-who-arrested-him-prob.html

An investigation into the death of Baltimore resident Freddie Gray has found no evidence that his fatal injuries were caused during the videotaped arrest and interaction with police officers, according to multiple law enforcement sources.


....

Details surrounding exactly what caused Gray to slam into the back of the van was unclear. The officer driving the van has yet to give a statement to authorities. It’s also unclear whether Gray’s head injury was voluntary or was a result of some other action.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Not quite. The autopsy would be the one that refutes the story of any possible spine surgery. Let's wait for the autopsy, but in this day and age, it doesn't.

Why would you suspect surgery had been performed in the first place? What makes it a plausible scenario? And what makes it more plausible than a fall from a building?

The case in the court record was that Gray had an accident and they sued the home builder that the lead paint in the house caused further damages and they won the case and were given a summary. They then wanted to collect a lump sum instead of cash every month. He could have surgery any time after to fix his problems. The question is did he or did he not. That can't be refuted by the court case there. But the burden of proof would be to establish that he did have surgery.

 

[ksen]

Also from the Guardian story:

The video footage of the previously undisclosed van stop was filmed by cameras above the entrance to CR Grocery, a shop on the corner of the two streets mentioned by police.

Jung Hwang, the owner of the shop, told the Guardian on Thursday that detectives visited him one day last week following Gray’s death and appeared to take copies of the footage that was stored on his laptop computer.

However the shop was then looted during Monday’s unrest, said the shop owner, who is Korean and speaks little English. “The laptop was stolen,” he said.

Well. that's a shame.