Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[laughing dog]

Killing civilians is not defense. It is creating more hate and more terrorists.

It is when the terrorists deliberately use them as human shields the way Hamas is doing!
Hamas is killing those Gazans just as certainly as they killed a bunch of Israelis on 10/7.

Keep shoveling that bullshit.

ETA ~Hamas is creating a bunch more hate and terrorism. Have been for years. And a bunch of westerners are cheering them on! ~

Absolutely. It is Hamas’s purpose. Create as much hate and distrust to keep real peace at bay. Is it IDF’s purpose?

There are more westerners cheering the IDF on than Hamas.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Just because collateral damage is a reality, doesn't mean it comes with no greater cost. Let's strap you in Gaza a young adult, spending the first 18 years of you life in Gaza between 2005 and 2023, and see how your worldview is impacted by the media vacuum and poverty.

You mean like the Israelis who have lived their whole lives under assault by Islamic extremists? From the military assault starting the day after Israel became official, to '67, to suicide bombers and Intifadas, you mean like that? You're surprised to find that Israelis now want hard right leadership that promises to protect them from that and care less about protecting the people who have been attacking them for their whole lives?

Yeah, guess what. Israelis are also driven by the same psychological factors. Maybe if Muslims stopped the violent attacks for a couple of generations Israelis would have a different cultural attitude.
Tom

Hard right leadership? Their election reaults the past several years have indicated there is no one government agreed to by the people. It is highly fractured.

And no, it isn't quite as simple as saying Israel has had a rough go. Israel lacks the utter poverty. Israel lacks the information vacuum. Israelis are more likely to be able to get varying media from varying partisan sources. This isn't as true for Gazans.

The long term threat of violence for Israelis is an awful thing. The suicide bombings were dreadful. And yes, Israel is unlikely to just lob weapons into Gaza like Hamas would. Most likely because Israel's weapons would be likely to reach the ground/target where as Hamas would merely be intercepted. Israel isn't looking for a fight, but those in power due to the fractured government aren't exactly looking for peace.

But we need to stop at this point. As your post didn't address my poat at all. There is no doubt Israelis have had to live with fear over a long period of time. That isn't justice. Of course, if some radical Zionist marches into Gaza and murders a Gazan, those be bad apples and rarely reported.

This is a rat race that ends when people stop killing. Justfying more killing because of past killing, instead of strategic gain for Israel security, is just green lighting senseless perpetual killing.

 

[Derec]

Israel wasted a Hamas leader who was hunkering down in Beirut.

Top Hamas official Saleh Arouri, who headed West Bank operations, killed in Beirut blast

Hamas, Hezbollah and their masters in Tehran are mighty pissed off about it.

 

[Gospel]

Maybe if Muslims stopped the violent attacks for a couple of generations Israelis would have a different cultural attitude.

I feel like MAGA would like a word here…

(speaking of 2 peaceful generations NOT resulting in a cessation of hate…)

Might you be a little less cryptic?

I see Hamas as similar to the Teaparty leadership encouraging hate and violence by lying to their supporters. And Gazans as MAGAts, because they believe the lies to the point of their own destruction.
Tom

The last I heard, opinions about Hamas in Gaza were as divided as Americans' opinions about Biden. Congrats on allowing yourself to be bamboozled. I suppose all Americans are wealthy now too. Stereotypes sir. You seem to suggest that there is a lack of concern for Israeli civilians. Could you please clarify the source of your fervent and intense enthusiasm and conviction. Based on the comments in this thread, it seems everyone is in favor of ending Hamas. I haven't noticed anyone expressing support for Hamas here. Nor have I seen anyone post anything anti sematic. Did I miss something?

As previously mentioned, unless Israel is willing to accept Gaza as a hub of animosity, they must exercise extreme caution in their approach to Hamas. There are no straightforward solutions. In fact, any seemingly simple solution is likely the wrong one.

 

[TomC]

The last I heard, opinions about Hamas in Gaza were as divided as Americans' opinions about Biden.

Really?
When did Gazans take to the streets demanding an election?

Hamas is now in their 17th year of a 4 year term. Where's the outrage?
Tom

 

[Gospel]

Let me get the Palestinians who lost their lives opposing them on the phone. Just a sec.

 

[TomC]

Let me get the Palestinians who lost their lives opposing them on the phone. Just a sec.

Feel free.
While your at it, maybe you can get the families of Gazan suicide bombers on the phone?
There's a bunch of them.
And, unlike Gazans, they can vote.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

Let me get the Palestinians who lost their lives opposing them on the phone. Just a sec.

Feel free.
While your at it, maybe you can get the families of Gazan suicide bombers on the phone?
There's a bunch of them.
And, unlike Gazans, they can vote.
Tom

You do know that Hamas kills Palestinians too right?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The last I heard, opinions about Hamas in Gaza were as divided as Americans' opinions about Biden.

Really?
When did Gazans take to the streets demanding an election?

Hamas is now in their 17th year of a 4 year term. Where's the outrage?
Tom

I don't see you (or Derec) flying over to Gaza to oppose Hamas in elections, you Hamas sympathizers you.

 

[Gospel]

Hamas receives arms support from a regional power, Iran. What support do Gazans have? You've got some unrealistic expectations their buddy.

 

[TomC]

Let me get the Palestinians who lost their lives opposing them on the phone. Just a sec.

Feel free.
While your at it, maybe you can get the families of Gazan suicide bombers on the phone?
There's a bunch of them.
And, unlike Gazans, they can vote.
Tom

You do know that Hamas kills Palestinians too right?

Yes!
Hamas kills Palestinians a lot!
Israel doesn't.
Israel doesn't kill Palestinians unless they have been put in harm's way by Islamic extremists.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

Israel doesn't kill Palestinians unless they have been put in harm's way by Islamic extremists Gazans.
Tom

Fix that for you. I mean, it's what you seem to be saying lately.

 

[TomC]

The last I heard, opinions about Hamas in Gaza were as divided as Americans' opinions about Biden.

Really?
When did Gazans take to the streets demanding an election?

Hamas is now in their 17th year of a 4 year term. Where's the outrage?
Tom

I don't see you (or Derec) flying over to Gaza to oppose Hamas in elections, you Hamas sympathizers you.

I'm a supporter of democracy.
That's difficult enough in my own country.

I'm not the kind of bigot that thinks I can fix a place like Gaza.
Tom

 

[Rhea]

Maybe if Muslims stopped the violent attacks for a couple of generations Israelis would have a different cultural attitude.

I feel like MAGA would like a word here…

(speaking of 2 peaceful generations NOT resulting in a cessation of hate…)

Might you be a little less cryptic?

I see Hamas as similar to the Teaparty leadership encouraging hate and violence by lying to their supporters. And Gazans as MAGAts, because they believe the lies to the point of their own destruction.
Tom

(Edited to change “Israelis” to “Israeli Government” for accuracy.

Sorry. What I meant was that

Northerners in America have not been killing Southerners for lo, these 150 years (much more than 2 generations). And still the MAGAs despise the “Northern Coastal Elites” and call in death threats and harm While waving their giant Confederate flags.

So the idea that “if Muslims stopped violent attacks for 2 generations, Israelis would have a different cultural attitude,” does not appear supported by the US or many other histories.

Still, if you believe that to be a path forward, and maybe it is, maybe the Israeli Government could try not bulldozing Palestinian farmlad and building apartments on it in the West Bank and forcing the Palestinian landowners into refugee camps, or something.


It’s no guarantee of safety in that route, but it is a possibility; and to claim that the Israeli Government are the ONLY victims here is to whitewash many years of actions that are harming peace.

That’s something that I really don’t understand - the vehement claims that the Israeli Government has done NOTHING wrong and have NEVER agitated in a way that harms the peace process, and there fore have nothing to change.

That plumb baffles me.

 

[TomC]

Israel doesn't kill Palestinians unless they have been put in harm's way by Islamic extremists Gazans.
Tom

Fix that for you. I mean, it's what you seem to be saying lately.

I'm kinda saying that. In the sense that Hamas is the Gazan leadership.

Are you disagreeing? Do you think that Hamas leadership is not Gazans?
Tom

 

[Rhea]

Yes!
Hamas kills Palestinians a lot!
Israel doesn't.
Israel doesn't kill Palestinians unless they have been put in harm's way by Islamic extremists.
Tom

Wait. You think Isreal doesn’t kill Palestinians “unless they have been put in ahrms way by Hamas”?

And the ones who have died in the refugee camps that Isreal told them to go to… ???

Really?

 

[Rhea]

I'm kinda saying that. In the sense that Hamas is the Gazan leadership.

Are you disagreeing? Do you think that Hamas leadership is not Gazans?
Tom

50% of Gazans are too young to vote.

 

[Gospel]

Maybe if Muslims stopped the violent attacks for a couple of generations Israelis would have a different cultural attitude.

I feel like MAGA would like a word here…

(speaking of 2 peaceful generations NOT resulting in a cessation of hate…)

Might you be a little less cryptic?

I see Hamas as similar to the Teaparty leadership encouraging hate and violence by lying to their supporters. And Gazans as MAGAts, because they believe the lies to the point of their own destruction.
Tom

Sorry. What I meant was that

Northerners in America have not been killing Southerners for lo, these 150 years (much more than 2 generations). And still the MAGAs despise the “Northern Coastal Elites” and call in death threats and harm While waving their giant Confederate flags.

So the idea that “if Muslims stopped violent attacks for 2 generations, Israelis would have a different cultural attitude,” does not appear supported by the US or many other histories.

Still, if you believe that to be a path forward, and maybe it is, maybe the Israelis could try not bulldozing Palestinian farmlad and building apartments on it in the West Bank and forcing the Palestinian landowners into refugee camps, or something.


It’s no guarantee of safety in that route, but it is a possibility; and to claim that the Israelis are the ONLY victims here is to whitewash many years of actions that are harming peace.

That’s something that I really don’t understand - the vehement claims that the Israelis have done NOTHING wrong and have NEVER agitated in a way that harms the peace process, and there fore have nothing to change.

That plumb baffles me.

You're referring to the stance of the Israeli government. The Israeli populace holds diverse views on handling this conflict. Many Israelis empathize with the Palestinians, but their ability to effect change is limited, especially with Hamas's actions contributing to the marginalization of the Palestinian people. Some folks just gobble everything up - hook, line, and sinker, and for good measure, they throw in the entire ocean floor as a chaser.

 

[TomC]

I'm kinda saying that. In the sense that Hamas is the Gazan leadership.

Are you disagreeing? Do you think that Hamas leadership is not Gazans?
Tom

50% of Gazans are too young to vote.

Everybody in Gaza is too young to vote.

Maybe 17 years ago they may have been eligible.
But there hasn't been a vote since Hamas took over.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

I'm kinda saying that. In the sense that Hamas is the Gazan leadership.

Yes, they were the elected leadership, but then they forcefully maintained power beyond their term. Come on, aren't you aware of this?