Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Arctish]

First of all, you just gave us the Hollywood screenplay version of events, not the actual history. But let's take it at face value for now.

How about, instead of rewarding robbers by letting them keep all the stuff they stole, the robbers have to give the stolen stuff back and make restitution for the harm they did.

That sounds fair, right?

See, that way, the assholes who made <insert racial/ethnic/religious designation here> homeless and destitute don't benefit from their assholery any longer than they already have. They have to at least try to make amends. Justice might never be fully served but at least the victims of injustice get something resembling it.

Yes. That would be fair. That's just not the way the world works. Muslims don't seem to be able to listen to reason. It seems to be a feature of the religion. I'm not saying it's inevitable. But that is a strong Muslim trend. Wherever Islam is strong, diplomacy often dies.

What we in the west do wrong is that we see all the Muslims as one unit and we equate them. But they're very different. They also have low solidarity between the various groups.

We can't play into their (various Muslim groups in the Middle-East) bullshit rhetoric. It's better to take them at their words and treat them as if they're honest. If they claim to act as a unit and use that to justify keeping Jewish lands, then Jews should treat them as one unit. Even if they know they're not.

What a load of self serving gobbledegook.

You're saying Muslims aren't all the same and we shouldn't treat them as though they are, but we should treat them as though they're all the same because they treat other people as though they're all the same and that's wrong.

You also say "If they claim to act as a unit and use that to justify keeping Jewish lands, then Jews should treat them as one unit". But since they don't, then why should Jews treat them that way? Is it because it provides a flimsy pseudo-excuse for Zionists to keep all the stuff they stole from Palestinians? Some asshole in Egypt stole a mule from a Jewish farmer so that makes it okay for some asshole Russia immigrant to steal a vegetable garden from a Palestinian?

 

[DrZoidberg]

First of all, you just gave us the Hollywood screenplay version of events, not the actual history. But let's take it at face value for now.

How about, instead of rewarding robbers by letting them keep all the stuff they stole, the robbers have to give the stolen stuff back and make restitution for the harm they did.

That sounds fair, right?

See, that way, the assholes who made <insert racial/ethnic/religious designation here> homeless and destitute don't benefit from their assholery any longer than they already have. They have to at least try to make amends. Justice might never be fully served but at least the victims of injustice get something resembling it.

Yes. That would be fair. That's just not the way the world works. Muslims don't seem to be able to listen to reason. It seems to be a feature of the religion. I'm not saying it's inevitable. But that is a strong Muslim trend. Wherever Islam is strong, diplomacy often dies.

What we in the west do wrong is that we see all the Muslims as one unit and we equate them. But they're very different. They also have low solidarity between the various groups.

We can't play into their (various Muslim groups in the Middle-East) bullshit rhetoric. It's better to take them at their words and treat them as if they're honest. If they claim to act as a unit and use that to justify keeping Jewish lands, then Jews should treat them as one unit. Even if they know they're not.

What a load of self serving gobbledegook.

You're saying Muslims aren't all the same and we shouldn't treat them as though they are, but we should treat them as though they're all the same because they treat other people as though they're all the same and that's wrong.

You also say "If they claim to act as a unit and use that to justify keeping Jewish lands, then Jews should treat them as one unit". But since they don't, then why should Jews treat them that way? Is it because it provides a flimsy pseudo-excuse for Zionists to keep all the stuff they stole from Palestinians? Some asshole in Egypt stole a mule from a Jewish farmer so that makes it okay for some asshole Russia immigrant to steal a vegetable garden from a Palestinian?

Lol. Who exactly are you accusing of spewing self serving bullshit? That's always been the problem with everything the Muslims have said in this conflict.

The Israelis are the only one's having a pragmatic and balanced attitude in the conflict IMHO

 

[ZiprHead]

That's just not the way the world works. Muslims don't seem to be able to listen to reason. It seems to be a feature of the religion. I'm not saying it's inevitable. But that is a strong Muslim trend. Wherever Islam is strong, diplomacy often dies.

What we in the west do wrong is that we see all the Muslims as one unit and we equate them. But they're very different. They also have low solidarity between the various groups.

And yet you seem to be doing it in your first paragraph.

 

[DrZoidberg]

That's just not the way the world works. Muslims don't seem to be able to listen to reason. It seems to be a feature of the religion. I'm not saying it's inevitable. But that is a strong Muslim trend. Wherever Islam is strong, diplomacy often dies.

What we in the west do wrong is that we see all the Muslims as one unit and we equate them. But they're very different. They also have low solidarity between the various groups.

And yet you seem to be doing it in your first paragraph.

No, I didnt

 

[ZiprHead]

That's just not the way the world works. Muslims don't seem to be able to listen to reason. It seems to be a feature of the religion. I'm not saying it's inevitable. But that is a strong Muslim trend. Wherever Islam is strong, diplomacy often dies.

What we in the west do wrong is that we see all the Muslims as one unit and we equate them. But they're very different. They also have low solidarity between the various groups.

And yet you seem to be doing it in your first paragraph.

No, I didnt

Uh huh, okay.

 

[repoman]

There will be buffer zones inside buffer zones until nothing is left of Gaza.

 

[TomC]

That's just not the way the world works. Muslims don't seem to be able to listen to reason. It seems to be a feature of the religion. I'm not saying it's inevitable. But that is a strong Muslim trend. Wherever Islam is strong, diplomacy often dies.

What we in the west do wrong is that we see all the Muslims as one unit and we equate them. But they're very different. They also have low solidarity between the various groups.

And yet you seem to be doing it in your first paragraph.

No, I didnt

Uh huh, okay.

He really didn't. He put in appropriate qualifiers.

If someone said "Evangelical Christians are solid Trump supporters", would you feel the need to contradict them by pointing out that Trump only got 80% of the evangelical Christian vote?
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Anything Hammas tells the international press is uncritically immediately printed as if it's the truth. Even though it's obviously nonsense. After the first day of fighting Hammas could report exactly how many had died within minutes. But it took Israel two whole days to figure out who had been killed after the 7/10 attack. And Israel is an uncorrupt well functioning western state. While no Palestinian records are reliable.

The buildings are blown up, the lack of access to utilities was real, and people are dying. It doesn't matter if it is 25,000 or 2,500. It is high enough for Hamas to use as propaganda.

Hamas messes with the utilities, you blame Israel. At the start Israel talked about blocking them but the reality was it was Hamas actually doing it.

And you only seem to care about dead Palestinians. Israel is trying to prevent a repeat of 10/7. Don't dead Jews matter?

They just won't have an army anymore. At this point, I hope we all can agree that the Palestinians can't be trusted to have sharp objects? They keep attacking Israel. It's not an acceptable behaviour for any sovereign state. Israel has had an angel's patience with their nonsense. It just has to stop. And now Israel is stopping it. Well done Israel.

But Israel isn't "stopping it". The use of bombs, missiles, bullets don't equate success. Destroying tunnels doesn't equate success. Hamas can't be defeated like this.

This isn't about stopping it. This is about making it longer until the next attack.

 

[ZiprHead]

All Christians eat babies. Except there are a few that don't. Does the qualifier make it any less bigoted?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The reason IDF is dropping bombs is because Hamas drops bombs.

Using the mighty Gazan Air Force to strike deep into Israel.

View attachment 45258

You realize basically any such image out of Gaza is done by Hamas, very often staged by Hamas. And sometimes not even real. (AI goofs have been seen.) Never take them at face value.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The reason IDF is dropping bombs is because Hamas drops bombs.

Using the mighty Gazan Air Force to strike deep into Israel.

View attachment 45258

Last I knew, Gazans had launched over a thousand untargeted bombs at Israelis on October 7.
Tom

IIRC it was over 5,000.

 

[Gospel]

You also seem to be making the claim that all children in Gaza are trained to be Hamas militants.

It's taught as part of their normal schooling there. Not full combat training, but that attacking Israel is the right thing to do and that they should aid the effort.

Source.

Link to the evidence that massacring Jews was common, or admit you can't find any.

Here is a distressing list of massacres that occurred in in British Mandate before the 14/05/48. It does not sort between victims, just lists them.

And clear evidence of why I say Wikipedia is untrustworthy.

2/17/48, calls the responsible party "Jewish settlers" but the description is "57 Arabs killed while taking part in attack on Jewish settlements Tirat Tzvi, Sde Eliahu, Ein HaNatziv". Really now, blaming people for defending themselves? Yeah, if you read the description it's clear but if you're just counting up numbers you'll miss that. That makes me question how accurate the rest of the table is.

Just so you're aware, the settlements are considered illegal. So by your logic acts of aggression from Palestinians rightfully should be met with violence but when Israel is the aggressor violence is unacceptable?

The reason IDF is dropping bombs is because Hamas drops bombs.

Using the mighty Gazan Air Force to strike deep into Israel.

View attachment 45258

You realize basically any such image out of Gaza is done by Hamas, very often staged by Hamas. And sometimes not even real. (AI goofs have been seen.) Never take them at face value.

I have a feeling that image was as relevant to the point as a Snickerdoodle.

 

[TomC]

The reason IDF is dropping bombs is because Hamas drops bombs.

Using the mighty Gazan Air Force to strike deep into Israel.

View attachment 45258

Last I knew, Gazans had launched over a thousand untargeted bombs at Israelis on October 7.
Tom

IIRC it was over 5,000.

I was trying to be as conservative as possible.
Tom

 

[TomC]

I have a feeling that image was as relevant to the point as a Snickerdoodle.

Bilby's whole post was about as relevant as a Snickerdoodle.
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Your pointless "whataboutism" makes a distinction without an practical difference. Hamas (not Gazans) target civilians. The IDF allegedly does not target civilians but manages to kill 5 to 10 as many civilians as Hamas. Now, it may make you feel better that the IDF does not "intend" to kill 5 to 10 times as many civilians as Hamas does, but I am fairly certain the IDF's intent does not make those dead any less dead. Nor does it make any difference to their families. Nor does it reduce its effect on the cycle of revenge both sides carry out.

1) It's not whataboutism. They knew the force disparity when they attacked. They knew what would follow and chose it. That means they consider the 1,200 dead Israelis more important than the ~20,000 dead Palestinians.

2) We don't know how many of those were killed by Israel. In more limited exchanges it tends to be about 1/4 of the dead were killed by rockets that fell short. AFIAK no such analysis yet exists for this fighting. We do, however, have multiple incidents that only make sense if it's Hamas killing people for propaganda purposes or to make them stay put and act as human shields.

3) A lot of them are dead because they were being used as human shields.

4) Cycle of revenge is Palestinian propaganda. Israel isn't after revenge, they are after reducing future attacks. History has repeatedly shown that the only way to do that is to smash Hamas equipment and organization. Quit attacking Israel, they'll quit shooting back. It's always the Palestinians breaking the ceasefires. It's just attacks from Hamas are not news so if you're not paying attention it looks like Israel attacking out of the blue.

Your persistent conflation of Gazan with Hamas is consistent with the views of a bigoted Zionist. Your persistent iimplication that the Gazan civilian population (not Hamas) chose the Oct. 7 atrocity is also consistent with the view of bigoted Zionists. And the implication that means the Gazan civilian population deserves what is occuring reeks of gloating.

The Gazan civilian population says 10/7 was a good thing. We are just repeating what they said. And "deserves" is the wrong word--they attacked knowing what would happen. Thus they consider it a favorable rate of exchange. In other words, Palestinian lives are of little value in the mind of the Palestinians.

 

[Gospel]

Mind readers.

 

[TomC]

Mind readers.

You don't have to be a mind reader to extrapolate from the observed behavior.

Maybe those Klanners burning crosses in black folks yards were just demonstrating the warmth of Christian Love. Do I have to be a mind reader to guess differently?
Tom

 

[Gospel]

Maybe those Klanners burning crosses in black folks yards were just demonstrating the warmth of Christian Love. Do I have to be a mind reader to guess differently?
Tom

Not for the ones burning the crosses in black folks yards. But if the black folks went on to say you, TomC did it because you just happen to be white then they'd be wrong.

 

[Gospel]

If you don't recognize that the establishment of the state of Israel (not the Jewish people) in Palestine by the British Empire was inappropriate, you're overlooking the core issue of this conflict, much like those who are inept at reading minds or creating fitting analogies.

 

[TomC]

Maybe those Klanners burning crosses in black folks yards were just demonstrating the warmth of Christian Love. Do I have to be a mind reader to guess differently?
Tom

Not for the ones burning the crosses in black folks yards. But if the black folks went on to say you, TomC did it because you just happen to be white then they'd be wrong.

Then they'd be poorly informed.

If they weren't, they'd know that us Papists were no more welcome in the KKK than some chink.
Tom