Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[ZiprHead]

‘Not seen since Vietnam’: Israel dropped hundreds of 2,000-pound bombs on Gaza, analysis shows

In the first month of its war in Gaza, Israel dropped hundreds of massive bombs, many of them capable of killing or wounding people more than 1,000 feet away, analysis by CNN and artificial intelligence company Synthetaic suggests.

Satellite imagery from those early days of the war reveals more than 500 impact craters over 12 meters (40 feet) in diameter, consistent with those left behind by 2,000-pound bombs. Those are four times heavier than the largest bombs the United States dropped on ISIS in Mosul, Iraq, during the war against the extremist group there.

Weapons and warfare experts blame the extensive use of heavy munitions such as the 2,000-pound bomb for the soaring death toll. The population of Gaza is packed together much more tightly than almost anywhere else on earth, so the use of such heavy munitions has a profound effect.

“The use of 2,000-pound bombs in an area as densely populated as Gaza means it will take decades for communities to recover,” said John Chappell, advocacy and legal fellow at CIVIC, a DC-based group focused on minimizing civilian harm in conflict.

 

[Arctish]

1) a Two State solution with enough land and resources for each to ensure both Israel and the Palestinian State are viable, with mutually beneficial security arrangements and freedoms for citizens of both States,

Except that this has been tried and didn't work out.

When?

Be specific.

In what year was it tried, and under which government?

You realize two-state basically describes 1948 to 1967?

I'm asking for names and dates, not bullshit and blather.

*Here's a hint: what was the first necessary step in order to implement the Oslo Accords in the mid-1990s?

Your question makes no sense--what possible names are you referring to?? And I already gave the dates: 1948-1967. Israel had no control over either Gaza or the West Bank. Yet the result was war, not peace. None of the currently claimed grievances existed at that time, thus they can't possibly be the cause of the conflict.

Perhaps the reason it makes no sense to you is because you didn't realize what DrZoidberg was claiming.

Or perhaps you did and you wanted his unsupported assertion to go unchallenged, and are only pretending you don't understand that I am asking him to support his claims.

Either way, DrZoidberg appears to be unaware of the Kingdom of Jordan and Egypt having units of their armies stationed in what is now called the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, respectively, and of the battles fought there with units of the IDF. He does not seem to know of the multi-decade disputes over who had a 'right' to control what, or what preliminary steps were necessary to lay the groundwork for a Two State solution when the Oslo Accords were being negotiated.

He seems to think there already was a Two State solution in place. You seem to want him to go on believing it even though you know that no such thing existed.

 

[Derec]

‘Not seen since Vietnam’: Israel dropped hundreds of 2,000-pound bombs on Gaza, analysis shows

You need the big bombs to reach Hamas tunnels. Although I am disappointed Biden is not sending Israel some of these.

60m penetration. That should be enough for all tunnels Hamas has currently dug.

“The use of 2,000-pound bombs in an area as densely populated as Gaza means it will take decades for communities to recover,” said John Chappell, advocacy and legal fellow at CIVIC, a DC-based group focused on minimizing civilian harm in conflict.

What does John Chappell has to say for the unguided rockets, suicide bombers and other weapon systems preferred by Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists? I hate these one-sided "advocacy" outfits.

 

[Derec]

Families of Israeli hostages join protests calling for Netanyahu to go

The problem with negotiating for hostages is that the demands by Hamas are too steep - they want to many terrorists released and they want an end to hostilities while they keep power. Both of these should be no-goes for any Israeli government - early elections or not.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Iran and Hezbollah would have likely responded.

Let's start at the beginning.
Iran and Hezbollah would have responded how?
Genocidal violence against Israel?

By stepping up assaults and murdering more Israelis. It can always get worse. You and a few others don't seem to appreciate that.

Wife-beating.

You are presuming that the violence is a reaction to Israeli actions--but if so why do we not see such violence in the areas of actual genocide in the world? Hint: Because it's not Israel's actions that are the driving force, but the money that's being provided for terror. The reality is correlation is negative--the more Israel smashes the terrorists the less damage they suffer.

No *self moderated*. I'm saying Iran can escalate violence. Doesn't make it Israel's fault. Like if a kid tries to step up to a big bully and then then bully pounds him down hard. But you and others have this idea that escalation is a one sided thing.

You make talking about Israel impossible.

 

[Shadowy Man]

‘Not seen since Vietnam’: Israel dropped hundreds of 2,000-pound bombs on Gaza, analysis shows

You need the big bombs to reach Hamas tunnels. Although I am disappointed Biden is not sending Israel some of these.

60m penetration. That should be enough for all tunnels Hamas has currently dug.

“It shoots through schools.”

Let’s see who gets the reference.

 

[Bomb#20]

UN has made themselves clear. They're mortal enemies of a Zionist state.

They're mortal enemies of a Zionist state like the USSR was a mortal enemy of Japan -- lip service in support of its allies but not actually joining the war until after the A-bombs fell. The UN has made clear they're too ineffectual to be mortal enemies of anything. They're casual enemies of Israel.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It is quite obvious that none of you even know what "carpet bomb" means. Israel doesn't even have aircraft capable of carpet bombing.

carpet-bomb​

verb​

car·pet-bomb ˈkär-pət-ˌbäm

variants or carpet bomb
carpet-bombed or carpet bombed; carpet-bombing or carpet bombing; carpet-bombs or carpet bombs
transitive verb
1
: to drop large numbers of bombs so as to cause uniform devastation over (a given area)

How is it not???

1) Carpet bombing involves dropping a long string of bombs. That's the realm of heavy bombers, not attack aircraft.

2) Your evidence doesn't show anything remotely like uniform devastation.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Your question makes no sense--what possible names are you referring to?? And I already gave the dates: 1948-1967. Israel had no control over either Gaza or the West Bank. Yet the result was war, not peace. None of the currently claimed grievances existed at that time, thus they can't possibly be the cause of the conflict.

Perhaps the reason it makes no sense to you is because you didn't realize what DrZoidberg was claiming.

Or perhaps you did and you wanted his unsupported assertion to go unchallenged, and are only pretending you don't understand that I am asking him to support his claims.

Either way, DrZoidberg appears to be unaware of the Kingdom of Jordan and Egypt having units of their armies stationed in what is now called the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, respectively, and of the battles fought there with units of the IDF. He does not seem to know of the multi-decade disputes over who had a 'right' to control what, or what preliminary steps were necessary to lay the groundwork for a Two State solution when the Oslo Accords were being negotiated.

I think we are both aware the areas were under the control of Jordan and Egypt. The point is they weren't under the control of Israel.

He seems to think there already was a Two State solution in place. You seem to want him to go on believing it even though you know that no such thing existed.

It's not a true two-state but it was basically free of the Israeli actions you blame for the problems. Why does being under Jordanian and Egyptian control make them attack Israel?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

‘Not seen since Vietnam’: Israel dropped hundreds of 2,000-pound bombs on Gaza, analysis shows

You need the big bombs to reach Hamas tunnels. Although I am disappointed Biden is not sending Israel some of these.

60m penetration. That should be enough for all tunnels Hamas has currently dug.

Even not considering that, I'm thinking of various images we have seen out of Gaza where the tunnel damage clearly extends farther than the surface damage. So long as that case if they drop enough to destroy the whole tunnel there will be less surface damage if they use bigger bombs to do it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Iran and Hezbollah would have likely responded.

Let's start at the beginning.
Iran and Hezbollah would have responded how?
Genocidal violence against Israel?

By stepping up assaults and murdering more Israelis. It can always get worse. You and a few others don't seem to appreciate that.

Wife-beating.

You are presuming that the violence is a reaction to Israeli actions--but if so why do we not see such violence in the areas of actual genocide in the world? Hint: Because it's not Israel's actions that are the driving force, but the money that's being provided for terror. The reality is correlation is negative--the more Israel smashes the terrorists the less damage they suffer.

No *self moderated*. I'm saying Iran can escalate violence. Doesn't make it Israel's fault. Like if a kid tries to step up to a big bully and then then bully pounds him down hard. But you and others have this idea that escalation is a one sided thing.

You make talking about Israel impossible.

Iran has little ability to initiate direct violence and if the Iranian military were to get involved they lose their veneer of deniability. For practical purposes they are limited to what's in the theater now.

And history shows us that the initiation of conflict is very one-sided. The terrorists go poke, poke, poke and eventually Israel goes SLAM! Think porcupine--nasty if you mess with it, but it leaves you alone if you leave it alone. But the continual poke, poke, poke is routine and not news. Only the Israeli response normally makes the news.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

UN has made themselves clear. They're mortal enemies of a Zionist state.

They're mortal enemies of a Zionist state like the USSR was a mortal enemy of Japan -- lip service in support of its allies but not actually joining the war until after the A-bombs fell. The UN has made clear they're too ineffectual to be mortal enemies of anything. They're casual enemies of Israel.

Agreed. What we are seeing is basically inevitable--aid organizations in oppressive regimes end up pretty much part of the regime because that's the only way they can operate. They can start out with good intentions but it always erodes and they end up using their reputation to whitewash the regime.

 

[ZiprHead]

It is quite obvious that none of you even know what "carpet bomb" means. Israel doesn't even have aircraft capable of carpet bombing.

carpet-bomb​

verb​

car·pet-bomb ˈkär-pət-ˌbäm

variants or carpet bomb
carpet-bombed or carpet bombed; carpet-bombing or carpet bombing; carpet-bombs or carpet bombs
transitive verb
1
: to drop large numbers of bombs so as to cause uniform devastation over (a given area)

How is it not???

1) Carpet bombing involves dropping a long string of bombs. That's the realm of heavy bombers, not attack aircraft.

2) Your evidence doesn't show anything remotely like uniform devastation.

I don't know. That devastation in those photos looks pretty uniform. Not to mention you don't need a lot of bombs to level an area when the bombs are 2000 pounds each.

Also adding your own definition to the accepted dictionary definition is not cool.

 

[repoman]

The Gazans need a Charlottesville style "Jews will not replace us" chant if they are pushed across the border into the Sinai.

 

[Arctish]

Your question makes no sense--what possible names are you referring to?? And I already gave the dates: 1948-1967. Israel had no control over either Gaza or the West Bank. Yet the result was war, not peace. None of the currently claimed grievances existed at that time, thus they can't possibly be the cause of the conflict.

Perhaps the reason it makes no sense to you is because you didn't realize what DrZoidberg was claiming.

Or perhaps you did and you wanted his unsupported assertion to go unchallenged, and are only pretending you don't understand that I am asking him to support his claims.

Either way, DrZoidberg appears to be unaware of the Kingdom of Jordan and Egypt having units of their armies stationed in what is now called the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, respectively, and of the battles fought there with units of the IDF. He does not seem to know of the multi-decade disputes over who had a 'right' to control what, or what preliminary steps were necessary to lay the groundwork for a Two State solution when the Oslo Accords were being negotiated.

I think we are both aware the areas were under the control of Jordan and Egypt. The point is they weren't under the control of Israel.

He seems to think there already was a Two State solution in place. You seem to want him to go on believing it even though you know that no such thing existed.

It's not a true two-state

Finally!

You are finally acknowledging there was no Two State solution that had been implemented at some point.

Now, are you ready to discuss the benefits and drawbacks of a Two State solution being implemented in the future?

 

[TomC]

Finally!

You are finally acknowledging there was no Two State solution that had been implemented at some point.

Now, are you ready to discuss the benefits and drawbacks of a Two State solution being implemented in the future?

Nobody has ever suggested that a Two State solution has been implemented.

I see the reason for that being mostly the same one as now, only now it's worse.
Islamicists don't want one.

A Two State solution would mean that they couldn't blame Israel and Zionists for the problems Palestinians have. The Islamic leaders would have to take responsibility for it.

It would cut the legs out from under the folks like Hamas who do very well ruining the lives of Palestinians and blaming Israel. I don't think that Islamicists like Iran and Qatar and Egypt and Syria are going to allow that.

And let's face it. The terrorist attack on October 7 ended any real chance of a Two State solution for the foreseeable future. Hamas knew it. Iran knew it. Egypt knew it.

Honestly, I think Likud knew it.
All those people got their way. They got the power that comes from human conflict.

Sorry if I sound so cynical, but I am.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No *self moderated*. I'm saying Iran can escalate violence. Doesn't make it Israel's fault. Like if a kid tries to step up to a big bully and then then bully pounds him down hard. But you and others have this idea that escalation is a one sided thing.

You make talking about Israel impossible.

Iran has little ability to initiate direct violence and if the Iranian military were to get involved they lose their veneer of deniability. For practical purposes they are limited to what's in the theater now.

Yes, that's why they'd do the proxy thing.

And history shows us that the initiation of conflict is very one-sided.

Initiation of violence, yes. Conflict, a bit more two-sided story there than the violence.

The terrorists go poke, poke, poke and eventually Israel goes SLAM! Think porcupine--nasty if you mess with it, but it leaves you alone if you leave it alone. But the continual poke, poke, poke is routine and not news. Only the Israeli response normally makes the news.

I'm pretty certain most of the poking is news in the US. Maybe not every dumb projectile that is fired, but in general, it gets reported.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Finally!

You are finally acknowledging there was no Two State solution that had been implemented at some point.

Now, are you ready to discuss the benefits and drawbacks of a Two State solution being implemented in the future?

Nobody has ever suggested that a Two State solution has been implemented.

I see the reason for that being mostly the same one as now, only now it's worse.
Islamicists don't want one.

Still with the crap Islamist stuff. This is political, not religious. A two-state solution doesn't work for Iran because peace doesn't work for Iran.

A Two State solution would mean that they couldn't blame Israel and Zionists for the problems Palestinians have. The Islamic leaders would have to take responsibility for it.

It would cut the legs out from under the folks like Hamas who do very well ruining the lives of Palestinians and blaming Israel. I don't think that Islamicists like Iran and Qatar and Egypt and Syria are going to allow that.

And let's face it. The terrorist attack on October 7 ended any real chance of a Two State solution for the foreseeable future.

October 7th seemed to end any chance of any solution. Rabin's assassination was likely the death of any two-state solution.

Honestly, I think Likud knew it.

Why else do you think they tried to push Gazans into Egypt? Likud wants a one state solution. A state without any Gazans.

 

[Thomas II]

 

[Arctish]

Finally!

You are finally acknowledging there was no Two State solution that had been implemented at some point.

Now, are you ready to discuss the benefits and drawbacks of a Two State solution being implemented in the future?

Nobody has ever suggested that a Two State solution has been implemented.

No one except for the posters who, in response to the proposal of a Two State solution say “Israel already tried that and it didn’t work”.


Haven’t you ever noticed? They say the Two State solution was already tried and then drag the conversation away from any further discussion of it, usually by posting racist crap about Semitic people. It’s a dodge.