Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[laughing dog]

Far-right Israeli settlers step up attacks on aid trucks bound for Gaza

Hamas launches rocket attack towards Tel Aviv

At least 35 killed in Israeli strikes on Rafah camp, Gaza health ministry says

Apparently, this is the first time in four months that Hamas managed to launch another rocket attack, proving that all of Israel will be wiped out by Hamas unless they killing innocent Palestinian "human shields" in Gaza and depriving those same "human shields" of basic necessities.

Read more carefully. First time in four months that Hamas attacked central Israel. Not the first time in four months they have attacked Israel. Most of their rockets don't fly far enough to hit Tel Aviv.

And the article's bias is showing, acting as if Israel's actions are somehow wrong because there are talks going on. This is falling for the fundamental fallacy of thinking talks inherently have value. No, agreements have value, talks are usually just delaying tactics.

Agreements are reached only through talks.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Israel social security data reveals true picture of Oct 7 deaths

A more precise picture of Hamas's October 7 attack on Israel has emerged from social security data, confirming the unprecedented scale of the violence but also challenging some initial testimonies.

www.france24.com

 

[laughing dog]

On the complicity of the UN:

Under an UNRWA building | The tunnel where the hostages' bodies were found

Military correspondent Doron Kadosh visited the tunnel in the Jabaliya "Refugee" Camp where IDF soldiers found the bodies of four hostages, and wasn't surprised that the entrance was in a building built by UNRWA with EU funding.

www.israelnationalnews.com

The entrance to a tunnel inside a UNRWA building.

1) They had to know.

2) Tunnel entrances exist for combat reasons.

As you continually remind everyone, in Gaza, nothing happens without the approval of Hamas. Anyone who stands against Hamas comes to harm or death. So what exactly is any aid agency supposed to do in Gaza that is not somehow complicit with Hamas?

Unless you are suggesting (without a shred of evidence) that the UN through the UNRWA helped build the entrance, what is the point of your factoid?

If they are being compelled to do Hamas' bidding they should simply declare the conditions impossible and leave. Instead they lend their reputation to Hamas--and end up sullying their own.

If they leave, then the aid and help to civilians receive leaves.

Which is how they justify the evil in their hearts. Doesn't mean they don't end up effectively making things worse, though.

Same as when the Red Crescent would not denounce the misuse of ambulances the result was that Israel no longer considers ambulances automatic non-combatants.

Wow - do you realize that sounds like any fundamentalist religious wacko justifying their depraved sacrificial rites?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-forces-press-rafah-offensive-despite-global-outcry-2024-05-28/

CAIRO, May 28 (Reuters) - Israeli strikes on a tent camp in an evacuation area west of Rafah killed at least 21 on Tuesday, Gaza health authorities said, and tanks advanced to the centre of the southern Gaza city for the first time after a night of heavy bombardment.
Two days after an Israeli airstrike on another camp stirred global condemnation, Gaza emergency services said four tank shells hit a cluster of tents in Al-Mawasi, a coastal area that Israel had advised civilians in Rafah to move to for safety.

GOP reps want same benefits for Americans serving in Israel army

IDF soldiers would get same protections as those serving in US National Guard or Reserves

responsiblestatecraft.org

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Far-right Israeli settlers step up attacks on aid trucks bound for Gaza

Hamas launches rocket attack towards Tel Aviv

At least 35 killed in Israeli strikes on Rafah camp, Gaza health ministry says

Apparently, this is the first time in four months that Hamas managed to launch another rocket attack, proving that all of Israel will be wiped out by Hamas unless they killing innocent Palestinian "human shields" in Gaza and depriving those same "human shields" of basic necessities.

Read more carefully. First time in four months that Hamas attacked central Israel. Not the first time in four months they have attacked Israel. Most of their rockets don't fly far enough to hit Tel Aviv.

And the article's bias is showing, acting as if Israel's actions are somehow wrong because there are talks going on. This is falling for the fundamental fallacy of thinking talks inherently have value. No, agreements have value, talks are usually just delaying tactics.

Agreements are reached only through talks.

What you are missing is that there is no reason for Israel to be holding back during "talks", doing so would just be rewarding Hamas for duplicity.

Originally the world pressured Israel into front-loaded agreements. Once Israel refused then the world pressured Israel into concessions for simply talking. It never lead to anything and now Israel refuses to do so.

Everything you want Israel to do has been tried and failed.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If they leave, then the aid and help to civilians receive leaves.

Which is how they justify the evil in their hearts. Doesn't mean they don't end up effectively making things worse, though.

Same as when the Red Crescent would not denounce the misuse of ambulances the result was that Israel no longer considers ambulances automatic non-combatants.

Wow - do you realize that sounds like any fundamentalist religious wacko justifying their depraved sacrificial rites?

Remember the old saying, fool me twice, shame on me? You're asking them to sit there and be fooled.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Israel social security data reveals true picture of Oct 7 deaths

A more precise picture of Hamas's October 7 attack on Israel has emerged from social security data, confirming the unprecedented scale of the violence but also challenging some initial testimonies.

www.france24.com

Not exactly surprising. Emergency crews are interested in dealing with the situation in front of them, counting is not their job other than in situations where a count is already known and they want to be sure they have them all. And when dealing with severely burned corpses counting is not so simple.

Remember, our initial estimates on 9/11 were more than 3x high. Israel seems to have gotten quite close in their original estimates other than getting some dead Hamas in the count.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Far-right Israeli settlers step up attacks on aid trucks bound for Gaza

Hamas launches rocket attack towards Tel Aviv

At least 35 killed in Israeli strikes on Rafah camp, Gaza health ministry says

Apparently, this is the first time in four months that Hamas managed to launch another rocket attack, proving that all of Israel will be wiped out by Hamas unless they killing innocent Palestinian "human shields" in Gaza and depriving those same "human shields" of basic necessities.

Read more carefully. First time in four months that Hamas attacked central Israel. Not the first time in four months they have attacked Israel. Most of their rockets don't fly far enough to hit Tel Aviv.

And the article's bias is showing, acting as if Israel's actions are somehow wrong because there are talks going on. This is falling for the fundamental fallacy of thinking talks inherently have value. No, agreements have value, talks are usually just delaying tactics.

Agreements are reached only through talks.

What you are missing is that there is no reason for Israel to be holding back during "talks", doing so would just be rewarding Hamas for duplicity.

Originally the world pressured Israel into front-loaded agreements. Once Israel refused then the world pressured Israel into concessions for simply talking. It never lead to anything and now Israel refuses to do so.

Everything you want Israel to do has been tried and failed.

Your argument is ridiculous. Israel has maximized hostage return by an order of magnitude or more when it has done a cease-fire and talks. Its ability for hostage recovery during intense combat for many months has resulted in considerably less hostage recovery as well as put hostages at risk and accidentally killed them.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Israel social security data reveals true picture of Oct 7 deaths

A more precise picture of Hamas's October 7 attack on Israel has emerged from social security data, confirming the unprecedented scale of the violence but also challenging some initial testimonies.

www.france24.com

Not exactly surprising. Emergency crews are interested in dealing with the situation in front of them, counting is not their job other than in situations where a count is already known and they want to be sure they have them all. And when dealing with severely burned corpses counting is not so simple.

Remember, our initial estimates on 9/11 were more than 3x high. Israel seems to have gotten quite close in their original estimates other than getting some dead Hamas in the count.

I don't agree with how you are interpreting this, but I'd like to encourage others to read the full article so they can see for themselves.

 

[laughing dog]

If they leave, then the aid and help to civilians receive leaves.

Which is how they justify the evil in their hearts. Doesn't mean they don't end up effectively making things worse, though.

Same as when the Red Crescent would not denounce the misuse of ambulances the result was that Israel no longer considers ambulances automatic non-combatants.

Wow - do you realize that sounds like any fundamentalist religious wacko justifying their depraved sacrificial rites?

Remember the old saying, fool me twice, shame on me? You're asking them to sit there and be fooled.

Nope.

 

[laughing dog]

Far-right Israeli settlers step up attacks on aid trucks bound for Gaza

Hamas launches rocket attack towards Tel Aviv

At least 35 killed in Israeli strikes on Rafah camp, Gaza health ministry says

Apparently, this is the first time in four months that Hamas managed to launch another rocket attack, proving that all of Israel will be wiped out by Hamas unless they killing innocent Palestinian "human shields" in Gaza and depriving those same "human shields" of basic necessities.

Read more carefully. First time in four months that Hamas attacked central Israel. Not the first time in four months they have attacked Israel. Most of their rockets don't fly far enough to hit Tel Aviv.

And the article's bias is showing, acting as if Israel's actions are somehow wrong because there are talks going on. This is falling for the fundamental fallacy of thinking talks inherently have value. No, agreements have value, talks are usually just delaying tactics.

Agreements are reached only through talks.

What you are missing is that there is no reason for Israel to be holding back during "talks", doing so would just be rewarding Hamas for duplicity.

I noticed you slipped in “ holding back” . Talking does not require holding back. Agreements are impossible without talking. Talking is low cost. There us no reason NOT to negotiate a mutually agreeable outcome (whatever that is).

 

[laughing dog]

Oops - My last sentence should read

There us no reason NOT to negotiate a mutually agreeable outcome (whatever that is).

 

[ZiprHead]

Oops - My last sentence should read

There us no reason NOT to negotiate a mutually agreeable outcome (whatever that is).

FTFY

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What you are missing is that there is no reason for Israel to be holding back during "talks", doing so would just be rewarding Hamas for duplicity.

Originally the world pressured Israel into front-loaded agreements. Once Israel refused then the world pressured Israel into concessions for simply talking. It never lead to anything and now Israel refuses to do so.

Everything you want Israel to do has been tried and failed.

Your argument is ridiculous. Israel has maximized hostage return by an order of magnitude or more when it has done a cease-fire and talks. Its ability for hostage recovery during intense combat for many months has resulted in considerably less hostage recovery as well as put hostages at risk and accidentally killed them.

And you continue to ignore that Israel perfectly well knows that's not a viable path anymore.

Israel has done some incredibly one-sided hostage deals in the past, the price they would have to pay would be unacceptable. Thus they took the only option they had: make not releasing them very expensive for Hamas.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Far-right Israeli settlers step up attacks on aid trucks bound for Gaza

Hamas launches rocket attack towards Tel Aviv

At least 35 killed in Israeli strikes on Rafah camp, Gaza health ministry says

Apparently, this is the first time in four months that Hamas managed to launch another rocket attack, proving that all of Israel will be wiped out by Hamas unless they killing innocent Palestinian "human shields" in Gaza and depriving those same "human shields" of basic necessities.

Read more carefully. First time in four months that Hamas attacked central Israel. Not the first time in four months they have attacked Israel. Most of their rockets don't fly far enough to hit Tel Aviv.

And the article's bias is showing, acting as if Israel's actions are somehow wrong because there are talks going on. This is falling for the fundamental fallacy of thinking talks inherently have value. No, agreements have value, talks are usually just delaying tactics.

Agreements are reached only through talks.

What you are missing is that there is no reason for Israel to be holding back during "talks", doing so would just be rewarding Hamas for duplicity.

I noticed you slipped in “ holding back” . Talking does not require holding back. Agreements are impossible without talking. Talking is low cost. There us no reason NOT to negotiate a mutually agreeable outcome (whatever that is).

Then what's the point of this subthread? Israel isn't refusing to talk, this is a strawman.

There's no reason not to negotiate other than the fact that Israel's minimum demand (return of all the hostages) exceeds what Hamas is willing to do.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

A collection of relevant things:

Aid is simply sitting there.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/aid-trucks-arrive-gaza-no-deliveries-yet-sources-2024-05-27/

But if the trucks could be sent there's no reason they couldn't pick it up. The supposed cause was not there. They returned empty because that's what Hamas wanted.

And we got some video of the strike:

https://abualiexpress.com/en/en27969/

Starts too late to actually see it but they are discussing what they saw and the secondaries going up in front of them.

https://www.globalprotectioncluster.org/sites/default/files/2024-05/gaza_pau_final_05.24.pdf

Damning information buried in there.

Insufficient and unreliable aid, distributed under conditions of insecurity that do not allow adequate targeting, expose
vulnerable groups to violence, exploitation and abuse, trafficking and forced prostitution, including by aid workers. Specific
risks observed in Gaza associated with aid include the presence of unofficial humanitarian workers without identification mixed
distribution lines for men and women.

Selling the aid is bad enough, but they're selling it for sex.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

What you are missing is that there is no reason for Israel to be holding back during "talks", doing so would just be rewarding Hamas for duplicity.

Originally the world pressured Israel into front-loaded agreements. Once Israel refused then the world pressured Israel into concessions for simply talking. It never lead to anything and now Israel refuses to do so.

Everything you want Israel to do has been tried and failed.

Your argument is ridiculous. Israel has maximized hostage return by an order of magnitude or more when it has done a cease-fire and talks. Its ability for hostage recovery during intense combat for many months has resulted in considerably less hostage recovery as well as put hostages at risk and accidentally killed them.

And you continue to ignore that Israel perfectly well knows that's not a viable path anymore.

That isn't correct.

Israel has done some incredibly one-sided hostage deals in the past, the price they would have to pay would be unacceptable. Thus they took the only option they had: make not releasing them very expensive for Hamas.

According to you, Israel is very effective at killing Hamas and civilian deaths are minimal. So, an allegedly one-sided hostage deal would result in those people being killed plus minimal civilians.

 

[laughing dog]

Far-right Israeli settlers step up attacks on aid trucks bound for Gaza

Hamas launches rocket attack towards Tel Aviv

At least 35 killed in Israeli strikes on Rafah camp, Gaza health ministry says

Apparently, this is the first time in four months that Hamas managed to launch another rocket attack, proving that all of Israel will be wiped out by Hamas unless they killing innocent Palestinian "human shields" in Gaza and depriving those same "human shields" of basic necessities.

Read more carefully. First time in four months that Hamas attacked central Israel. Not the first time in four months they have attacked Israel. Most of their rockets don't fly far enough to hit Tel Aviv.

And the article's bias is showing, acting as if Israel's actions are somehow wrong because there are talks going on. This is falling for the fundamental fallacy of thinking talks inherently have value. No, agreements have value, talks are usually just delaying tactics.

Agreements are reached only through talks.

What you are missing is that there is no reason for Israel to be holding back during "talks", doing so would just be rewarding Hamas for duplicity.

I noticed you slipped in “ holding back” . Talking does not require holding back. Agreements are impossible without talking. Talking is low cost. There us no reason NOT to negotiate a mutually agreeable outcome (whatever that is).

Then what's the point of this subthread? Israel isn't refusing to talk, this is a strawman.

Actually Israel did initially refuse to talk. So did Hamas.

There's no reason not to negotiate other than the fact that Israel's minimum demand (return of all the hostages) exceeds what Hamas is willing to do.

i didn’t realize you are a member of the Israeli negotiating team.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Top Israeli official says fighting in Gaza likely to last at least another 7 months | The Times of Israel

www.timesofisrael.com

So another 7 months?

And a goal is destruction of "governing capabilities." That's kind of vague.

Does it include social security administration buildings, universities, hospitals, state run media outlets, buildings used for voting...?

 

[Derec]

What voting?