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Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

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Oh, starvation has been the leading cause of death for many many years. It's just that we don't care about it unless it happens to Gazians. 10,000 children die per day due to starvation:

But what starvation? The supposedly very accurate hospital records last I knew showed 22 deaths by malnutrition, all in the earlier part of the war. I remember some photos of a starving kid being airlifted out. His family didn't look lean, though--one skin and bones while the others are fine says it's a medical cause, not a food supply cause.

And we don't care when it happens in Sudan because there aren't Jews involved. Nobody's weaponizing it.
 

No, I don't support Netanyahu. I don't think that it's possible to completely wipe out Hamas. However, this is hamas's doing. They are too blame. But people don't care about children starving unless they are gazians. 10,000 starve every day. Where are the posts regarding this?
And why did nobody care when I posted about what's happening in Sudan?
 
This notion that “people” don’t care if children are starving unless they are Gazan is malarky. There are dozens of NGOs dedicated to just that, including one called Feed the Children.
 
Who has done better? Anywhere, anytime? Who has even come close to as low a civilian:combatant ratio in rooting forces out of a city that has not been evacuated?

Nobody, that's who.
Like I said, skull fuck the numbers doesn't change the fact that there are still hostages and Israel hasn't come close to ending Hamas.
In other words, pay no attention to unpleasant reality. They're Jews, therefore they're wrong.

This anti-semitism accusation against people who oppose the Netanyahu government’s ethnic cleansing and genocide in Gaza is false and despicable. I know why the Netanyahu government likes it when people play this card, because it diverts attention from what he and his military are doing to innocent people.
I don't like Netanyahu. But I don't see ethnic cleansing there.

I feel sorry for the Gazans, but their deaths are a deliberate tactic by Hamas. Just look at the branch of the war that's against Hezbollah--the people weren't forced to stay on the target and so they've mostly gotten away from Hezbollah targets. And I blame the side that set it up, not the guy who pulled the trigger.

There is still no meaningful reply to the cartoon with the Hamas guy with a baby in his plate carrier. It's an extremely ugly situation, if you can't recognize that and simply blame Israel you've fallen for their propaganda.
 

Like I said, I'm against Neta's policies. I favor peace. I favor a cease fire that both sides agree to. But clearly, it doesn't appear that Hamas is interested. Maybe there is a chance now that Sinwar is dead...
Exactly. It takes two to make peace--and Iran doesn't want peace.
 
A while back I posted an article about a woman that ISIS had kidnapped and Israel recently liberated from her captors in Gaza. Some more just dropped about that case:


Was she really fed suckling long pig? I doubt it--this is probably just psychological torture. But it's still horror.
 
One difference is that Gazans are being DELIBERATELY starved. Do you support that Netanyahu policy?
Bullshit. Stop spreading conspiracy theory nonsense.

:confused2:
Human Rights Watch regards the starvation as deliberate:
Human Rights Watch is not a credible source.

And the UN is actively part of the problem.

Bullshit. Stop spreading conspiracy theory nonsense.
Stop denying the war crimes.
Start showing more than mindless chants of "war crimes!"

If people are starving why aren't they showing up in the list of the dead?
 
The starvation is clearly deliberate, and as I have noted and linked on a couple of occasions, a high Israeli official said it would be moral to starve 2 million Gazans and Israel would go right ahead and do it but “the world would stop us.” So they are doing it in slow-motion instead. That the U.S. offers arms and money to this ongoing blatant war crime is beyond disgusting.
Siege is a perfectly legal tactic in war. It only becomes an issue if the besieging power will not accept a surrender.
 

And no one here has denied the IDF and the government of Israel should, and indeed must, defend Israel, including waging war against organizations like Hamas that attack its citizens.
I am glad you have said that.

I have said it repeatedly in this thread and others for over 20 years.

Did you just now notice?

More importantly, will you remember that I said it so I don't have to keep saying the same thing over and over again?
Could you please tell us what Israel can do, in self-defence of course, that would not have people "crying war crimes", "disproportionate response" etc.?

Show me the posts where people have done that. I would have to read them before I can make any specific suggestions about what IMO Israel can do about it, but generally speaking, if the claims of "war crimes" and "disproportionate response" are supported by evidence, then Israel can change the Rules of Engagement that allow them to happen, or make a serious effort to figure out why they happen if they aren't allowed, and fix that problem.

If you really want to discuss Rules of Engagement that don't cross the threshold into war crimes territory, then we can start a new thread after we both read up on the subject. Perhaps we can start with this. Also, I know I've talked about the Battle of Mogadishu and suggested you read the book, Black Hawk Down. We should make that part of the discussion, too.
It seems at that anything Israel does brings out those calls.

I believe that's because Netanyahu has used the terror attack last October as an excuse to do anything he'd like to the Palestinians, including ethnic cleansing, engineering a famine, and seizing all of Gaza.


 
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It is despicable the way the U.S. gives huge support to the on-going genocide perpetrated by Netanyahu and other war criminals.
It's despicable to call this "genocide".
Even some otherwise-well-informed Americans right here at IIDB have shown strong support for the war crimes. Their feeble defenses make me think they flunked kindergarten, where we were supposed to learn "Two wrongs don't make a right."
Ah, I see the return of your trademark condescending style.
If Harris loses this election, it may be due in part to rational Americans' disgust with the Biden-Harris support for war crimes. (Of course Trump and his cretinous ilk are even stronger supporters of such crimes.) I stumbled upon an opinion piece by Jacob Weindling who protests that he hates Trump and will cast an ALMOST straight Democratic ballot, but might not vote for Harris. Here's one of his introductory paragraphs:
Cut off your nose to spite your nose is how the saying goes.

Jacob Weindling said:
Just before going to bed last night, I watched someone hooked up to an IV burn to death in yet another Israeli bombing of a hospital in Gaza (Warning: graphic photo here).
Yes, it is tragic when somebody who is ostensibly a civilian dies. Especially when he dies in such a horrific manner. But the story is a bit more complex than a graphic photo.
I saw this article on another anti-Israel website. It provides some context.
972 Mag said:
Before leaving the tent, Ahmed recalls, “my wife and son told me that they would try to save some pieces of clothing. But they didn’t expect the fire to spread so fast.” Ahmed doesn’t know what happened in those moments, but when he returned to the tent, Alaa and Sha’ban’s bodies had been consumed by the fire, and he could no longer recognize them.
The "son" mentioned here is Sha'ban al-Dalu from the viral photo. Any firefighter can tell you that a fire can spread quickly and that one should not go back, esp. not for something as trivial as clothes.
The horrors in this genocide have been endless, but this feels like a new, more sinister development, where Israel is publicly saying they are blocking food for 13 days and counting,
It is one thing for trucks to enter the Strip, but distribution is another matter altogether. It is virtually impossible to get food deliveries from Kerem Shalom to northern Gaza, and Erez is closed due to military action nearby.
(I'll bet the pro-genocide Infidels show up and repeat the canard that Hamas is stealing available food. What do I win?)
"Pro-genocide" just for pointing out that the real pro-genocide faction is stealing aid?
Interactive_Gaza_foodprices_3-01-1729062593.jpg
Al-Jazeera is a biased source, but this chart bears some looking at. If there are prices associated with these food items, that means that they are at least available. Meat might be $90/kg (about $40/pound) but having a price tag means it's offered for sale. Same goes for eggs, baby formula, vegetables, sugar and even hipster non-dairy "milk". Real famines look different.

One more thing on this issue: if things were really that rough in the North, why are marriages surging? They even have plenty of cash for a bride price.
Love (and war) is in the air: Number of Gaza weddings surges

YNET said:
Amid the turmoil of war and the dire conditions in the Gaza Strip, an unexpected trend has emerged: a surge in weddings. This increase isn't driven by romance but by the pragmatic need to register marriages to secure food coupons and assistance for newlyweds. According to sources in Gaza, once a couple is officially married, they "come off" their parents' accounts and begin receiving separate support.
Apparently there are coupons for aid. Seems well-organized if marriages can be registered in a timely manner.
"Today, getting married costs around $530, and you need to purchase a mattress and a tent," the attorney explained. "People are rushing to marry because it eases financial pressure on parents. Once registered as married, couples start receiving separate food coupons and assistance. Furthermore, after the war, they become eligible for a shared apartment. This pattern was seen in previous conflicts and tempts both couples and parents. Many relatives, including cousins, are rushing to marry even at 15, and others are taking second wives."
Consanguineous marriage and underage marriage were both quite common even before the War, of course. One older article described a family with a high incidence of male pseudohermaphroditism.
Couples have stopped waiting for the war to end. Under Islamic law, a "mahr" or dowry must be paid to the bride's family, and these amounts have also fluctuated due to the war. "In the northern Strip, there are fewer women, so those seeking to marry pay between $1,400 and $5,700, while in the southern camps, where there are more women, the payment is only about $215," the lawyer described.
There can't be enough vendors selling overpriced meat and powdered oat milk to raise the going bride price that much, so where do all these north Gaza grooms get that much money?
Dr. Israa Saleh from Gaza shared on a podcast that captured the Arab world's attention that there are rooms or tents in Gaza for couples, where they engage in marital relations according to a waiting list. "The war dragged on, and people started accepting the situation. Those who postponed marriage and pregnancy now see no reason to delay, and in fact, more are marrying and having children despite the hardships," she said.
It's crazy to me to get married and especially to intentionally get pregnant during a war, but this shows that things are not as dire as portrayed in anti-Israel propaganda like Al Jazeera.
According to Hamas’ Interior Ministry, before the war, there were, on average, 20,000 marriage registrations annually in the Gaza Strip.
I wonder how 2024 figures compare to that.
 
Oh, starvation has been the leading cause of death for many many years. It's just that we don't care about it unless it happens to Gazians[sic]. 10,000 children die per day due to starvation:

:confused2: :confused2: :confused2:

Oh my. Sarcasm about starving Gazans?

One difference is that Gazans are being DELIBERATELY starved. Do you support that Netanyahu policy?

No, I don't support Netanyahu. I don't think that it's possible to completely wipe out Hamas. However, this is hamas's doing. They are too blame. But people don't care about children starving unless they are gazians. 10,000 starve every day. Where are the posts regarding this?
As Swammerdami pointed out, are those deaths part of a direct policy?
Moreover, those who are concerned about starvation in the world can send needed resources that will arrive.

Finally, blaming Hamas for the choices made by the gov’t of Israel is sloppy snd biased thinking. Israel has agency on how they prosecute the war. Hamas started this tragedy snd does its best to egg Israel into acting like cold blooded killers of children and othe noncombatants. But Israel need not help Hamas meet its goal.

Like I said, I'm against Neta's policies. I favor peace. I favor a cease fire that both sides agree to. But clearly, it doesn't appear that Hamas is interested. Maybe there is a chance now that Sinwar is dead...
I think there is even less of a chance now that Hamas will agree to peace. Of course, I think that chance has always been epsilon away from zero,
Yet somehow it's Israel's fault what's happening even though you admit Israel isn't in a position to make peace.
 

And no one here has denied the IDF and the government of Israel should, and indeed must, defend Israel, including waging war against organizations like Hamas that attack its citizens.
I am glad you have said that.

I have said it repeatedly in this thread and others for over 20 years.

Did you just now notice?

More importantly, will you remember that I said it so I don't have to keep saying the same thing over and over again?
You pretend you accept Israel defending themselves but you demand they follow impossible standards in doing so.

Could you please tell us what Israel can do, in self-defence of course, that would not have people "crying war crimes", "disproportionate response" etc.?

Show me the posts where people have done that. I would have to read them before I can make any specific suggestions about what IMO Israel can do about it, but generally speaking, if the claims of "war crimes" and "disproportionate response" are supported by evidence, then Israel can change the Rules of Engagement that allow them to happen, or make a serious effort to figure out why they happen if they aren't allowed, and fix that problem.
"War crimes" are "supported" by eternal repetition, not by any real evidence. We have a few cases of individuals going too far--something that happens in any war.

If you really want to discuss Rules of Engagement that don't cross the threshold into war crimes territory, then we can start a new thread after we both read up on the subject. Perhaps we can start with this. Also, I know I've talked about the Battle of Mogadishu and suggested you read the book, Black Hawk Down. We should make that part of the discussion, too.
How about we quit the war crimes chant?
 
Oh, starvation has been the leading cause of death for many many years. It's just that we don't care about it unless it happens to Gazians[sic]. 10,000 children die per day due to starvation:

:confused2: :confused2: :confused2:

Oh my. Sarcasm about starving Gazans?

One difference is that Gazans are being DELIBERATELY starved. Do you support that Netanyahu policy?

No, I don't support Netanyahu. I don't think that it's possible to completely wipe out Hamas. However, this is hamas's doing. They are too blame. But people don't care about children starving unless they are gazians. 10,000 starve every day. Where are the posts regarding this?
As Swammerdami pointed out, are those deaths part of a direct policy?
Moreover, those who are concerned about starvation in the world can send needed resources that will arrive.

Finally, blaming Hamas for the choices made by the gov’t of Israel is sloppy snd biased thinking. Israel has agency on how they prosecute the war. Hamas started this tragedy snd does its best to egg Israel into acting like cold blooded killers of children and othe noncombatants. But Israel need not help Hamas meet its goal.

Like I said, I'm against Neta's policies. I favor peace. I favor a cease fire that both sides agree to. But clearly, it doesn't appear that Hamas is interested. Maybe there is a chance now that Sinwar is dead...
I think there is even less of a chance now that Hamas will agree to peace. Of course, I think that chance has always been epsilon away from zero,
Yet somehow it's Israel's fault what's happening even though you admit Israel isn't in a position to make peace.
What is Israel's fault? Are you under the impression that because Hamas will not agree to peace that Israel has no choice to oblige Hamas and kill noncombatants at the rate at which they do?

Hamas is not interested in peace. Radical Islamists are not interested in peace. That is the reality of the Middle East. Nothing Israel does will change that unless Israel manages to kill everyone in the Middle east and then prevents any Islamist from moving there. Killing doesn'[t solve their problem - it postpones it until it returns larger and more deadly.
 
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This notion that “people” don’t care if children are starving unless they are Gazan is malarky. There are dozens of NGOs dedicated to just that, including one called Feed the Children.
The point is it's not news.
If "it" (whatever "it" is) is not news, why are you bringing it up?
 
Yet somehow it's Israel's fault what's happening even though you admit Israel isn't in a position to make peace.

Is everything black and white? Must there be exactly one side that is right and one side that is wrong?

You write as though everything was happy and peaceful before 7 October 2023. Really? Did the conflict have no prior history?

Palestinians are resentful of the approx. One Million Israelis who have confiscated Palestinian houses and territory in the West Bank for their own dwellings. Can you understand that? Those settlements are in violation of international law. Last time you were asked about this matter, your reply amounted to "Might makes right. Ha ha ha!" Is that still your position?

Long before Hamas attacked a year ago, the conditions imposed by Israel on the Palestinians had similarities to the Warsaw Ghetto under Hitler.

Do you have any hope for the Palestinians' future? Are Netanyahu's actions the way to build trust and friendship?
 
You write as though everything was happy and peaceful before 7 October 2023. Really? Did the conflict have no prior history?
Look at the thread title. "Unprovoked" is right there.

I objected strenuously to this, some 5,300 posts ago, and was soundly ignored.

Apoarently it's the official position of this board that 7 October 2023 was the very first time anyone did anything mean, cruel, or wrong, to anyone else, anywhere in the Middle East.
 
IDF destroys an entire village in Lebanon.


Very interesting explosion pattern. Looks almost like a fuse leading up to the big boom. What weapon looks like that? Certainly nothing I'm aware of--a bomb starts with the biggest boom. But it's perfectly reasonable for secondaries. There are some "villages" in Lebanon that are basically nothing but Hezbollah rocket storage--I've never paid attention to names but this certainly seems like it might be an example of such.

Cluster munition.

Can hit an area, won't make that big boom at the end. That was something they hit, not something they dropped.

It has been suggested that the area was prewired with explosives to destroy the tunnel network underneath.
 
You write as though everything was happy and peaceful before 7 October 2023. Really? Did the conflict have no prior history?
Look at the thread title. "Unprovoked" is right there.

I objected strenuously to this, some 5,300 posts ago, and was soundly ignored.

Apoarently it's the official position of this board that 7 October 2023 was the very first time anyone did anything mean, cruel, or wrong, to anyone else, anywhere in the Middle East.
I don’t like titles all the time. But I agree with the unwritten moderator rules to not change titles. If it were allowed, titles would change all the time. It would increase needless bickering and hurt feelings.
 
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