Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Jimmy Higgins]

Again... Hamas is the issue here, it is Iran. Negotiating with Hamas to stop Iran from meddling in the region is a failed maneuver.

Hamas apologetics! 100 yard penalty! 1st down.

Did you have anything useful to interject?

Is there a specific reason you can catch sarcasm from others but not from me?

Must be the accent.

 

[Gospel]

Your inability to grasp that Hamas are Gazans shows a callous disregard for accuracy and honesty.

Hamas are Gazans but not all Gazans are Hamas. Do you agree?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Earllier Dr.Zoidberg wrote something about what a nice, well-behaved army IDF is.

Right, then.

I'd lost a bunch of respect for the UN over the last several years.

This was just another episode. They managed to bitch about the destruction of hospitals and such without mentioning human shields.

They seem to have become the international mouthpieces for tyrannical government and violent terrorism.
Tom

Meh. The point of the UN is to create a space for enemy nations to meet and talk. Not necessarily agree. If you invite a bunch of Islamofascists, regular fascists, Tina pot dictators and communists to a party, just because you want them to talk, then don't act all shocked when they emerge with spicy opinions.

Shared statements from the UN says more about general power political trends, than what's right or wrong

 

[laughing dog]

Tom

That illogical. It is possible Hamas can end the war. So can Israel. No one is compelling Hamas to continue or Israel to continue against their will.

How can Israel end a war that their enemies have sworn to keep going until Israel is destroyed?

I realize this is hard, if Israel stopped the bombing and invasion, this war would be over. Now, whether that is a good idea or not is a separate issue. And whether or not it would start up again (and when) is a separate issue.

Your conflation of "Gazan" with "Hamas" shows a callous disregard for the noncombatants of Gaza.

Your inability to grasp that Hamas are Gazans shows a callous disregard for accuracy and honesty.

That is a falsehood that is clearly rebutted by my observation you quoted.

Unfortunately, the callous disregard for the lives of non-combatant Gazans is almost entirely from Hamas and their supporters, foreign and domestic.
Tom

[removed]

 

[TomC]

I realize this is hard, if Israel stopped the bombing and invasion, this war would be over.

I realize you prefer not to grasp the big picture, so this is hard. But Israel stopping their defense while Gazans (whether lead by Hamas or not) continue their attacks will Not end the war. It will be giving a victory to the violent Muslim extremists.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

I realize this is hard, if Israel stopped the bombing and invasion, this war would be over.

I realize you prefer not to grasp the big picture, so this is hard. But Israel stopping their defense while Gazans (whether lead by Hamas or not) continue their attacks will Not end the war. It will be giving a victory to the violent Muslim extremists.
Tom

That’s true. Israel is in a position where stopping now would likely allow Hamas to regroup, so they need a sustainable path forward. I’m curious—what do you think that might look like?

 

[Tigers!]

How can Israel end a war that their enemies have sworn to keep going until Israel is destroyed?
I realize this is hard, if Israel stopped the bombing and invasion, this war would be over.

It would not be over. Hamas would not hand the hostages back. It's is amazing that you truly believe that.

Now, whether that is a good idea or not is a separate issue. And whether or not it would start up again (and when) is a separate issue.

And yes Hamas will keep on attacking.

 

[Tigers!]

Your inability to grasp that Hamas are Gazans shows a callous disregard for accuracy and honesty.

Hamas are Gazans but not all Gazans are Hamas. Do you agree?

True as far as it goes.
Nazis were German but not all German were Nazis.
It is still a variant of so what? The war went on until the Nazi were beaten.

 

[Tigers!]

How so? All the bombs and bullets in 13 months, Hamas is still here.

Gazans insist on keeping the war going.

That is literally counterfactual. At this time, the IDF is continuing the violence.

Amazing that only the IDF is continuing the violence.

The IDF has the ability to stop anytime.

So does Hamas. Yet you did not mention them. Why not?

That does not stop the hostilities nor prevent future acts of war, but at this moment, either side can stop the war.

You acknowledge that Hamas can end the war? Good to hear.

 

[TomC]

How can Israel end a war that their enemies have sworn to keep going until Israel is destroyed?
I realize this is hard, if Israel stopped the bombing and invasion, this war would be over.

It would not be over. Hamas would not hand the hostages back. It's is amazing that you truly believe that.

Now, whether that is a good idea or not is a separate issue. And whether or not it would start up again (and when) is a separate issue.

And yes Hamas will keep on attacking.

Unfortunately, it's not just the Gazan leadership. It's Muslim extremists and authoritarians who believe that the superiority of Islam entitles them to violence and genocide. I don't see Hamas as important except for their position as the spear point for Islam aimed at Israel.

As such, they will keep getting money and protection from the real powers. It doesn't matter how many people they kill with human shield tactics and violence against their neighbors. If Hamas went away they would be replaced by another batch of indistinguishable terrorist leaders. There is no point to Israel negotiating with them.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

Your inability to grasp that Hamas are Gazans shows a callous disregard for accuracy and honesty.

Hamas are Gazans but not all Gazans are Hamas. Do you agree?

True as far as it goes.
Nazis were German but not all German were Nazis.
It is still a variant of so what? The war went on until the Nazi were beaten.

By so what are you saying that there are no civilians only Hamas in Gaza?

 

[Shadowy Man]

Your inability to grasp that Hamas are Gazans shows a callous disregard for accuracy and honesty.

Hamas are Gazans but not all Gazans are Hamas. Do you agree?

True as far as it goes.
Nazis were German but not all German were Nazis.
It is still a variant of so what? The war went on until the Nazi were beaten.

By so what are you saying that there are no civilians only Hamas in Gaza?

One could argue that there are no civilians in Israel either since the country has compulsory military service and reserve status.

 

[TomC]

One could argue that there are no civilians in Israel either since the country has compulsory military service and reserve status.

Nope.
Israel has a government. You might not like them or the democratic system that put them in power, but Israel has that.
And that government appoints a military staff which can be clearly distinguished from the civilian population.

In a country like Israel it's easy to distinguish the civilians from the government and military.
Tom

 

[Tigers!]

Your inability to grasp that Hamas are Gazans shows a callous disregard for accuracy and honesty.

Hamas are Gazans but not all Gazans are Hamas. Do you agree?

True as far as it goes.
Nazis were German but not all German were Nazis.
It is still a variant of so what? The war went on until the Nazi were beaten.

By so what are you saying that there are no civilians only Hamas in Gaza?

There are civilians in Gaza just like there were non-Nazis in Germany. But until there was surrender it unfortunately made no difference.

 

[Gospel]

Not sure what point you're trying to make but thumbs up anyway.

 

[TomC]

Your inability to grasp that Hamas are Gazans shows a callous disregard for accuracy and honesty.

Hamas are Gazans but not all Gazans are Hamas. Do you agree?

True as far as it goes.
Nazis were German but not all German were Nazis.
It is still a variant of so what? The war went on until the Nazi were beaten.

By so what are you saying that there are no civilians only Hamas in Gaza?

There are civilians in Gaza just like there were non-Nazis in Germany. But until there was surrender it unfortunately made no difference.

Another difference between Germany in the 40s and modern Palestinians is that the German leadership didn't deliberately use their own people as human shields.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

Given the reality that there are people in Gaza that are not Hamas combatants, while Hamas continues to pursue the destruction of Israel, what sustainable path forward can ensure security for Israel and a viable future for the non-combatant population in Gaza?

 

[laughing dog]

I realize this is hard, if Israel stopped the bombing and invasion, this war would be over.

I realize you prefer not to grasp the big picture, so this is hard. But Israel stopping their defense while Gazans (whether lead by Hamas or not) continue their attacks will Not end the war. It will be giving a victory to the violent Muslim extremists.
Tom

Right now, Hamas is not attacking - they are hiding, so what on earth are you on abo

One could argue that there are no civilians in Israel either since the country has compulsory military service and reserve status.

Nope.
Israel has a government. You might not like them or the democratic system that put them in power, but Israel has that.
And that government appoints a military staff which can be clearly distinguished from the civilian population.

In a country like Israel it's easy to distinguish the civilians from the government and military.
Tom

Earlier in the thread, you blamed the civilians in Gaza for allowing Hamas to continue. Certainly the Israeli citizens should be held to the same standard, especially since they actually hold elections.

 

[TomC]

Right now, Hamas is not attacking

I don't care about Hamas.
They barely exist.

Israel has been under attack for decades. Jewish people have been under attack for centuries. That's why Israel exists.

I don't care about the name of the violent Muslim extremists who are attacking Israel right now. Israel is a multi-ethnic democracy. It's under attack because religious extremists feel it's their God given right to commit genocide against modern people who have a less primitive moral and ethical view.

I don't care about Hamas. They're just the anti Palestine pawns in a war for Islamic supremacy.
Tom

 

[Tigers!]

Given the reality that there are people in Gaza that are not Hamas combatants, while Hamas continues to pursue the destruction of Israel, what sustainable path forward can ensure security for Israel and a viable future for the non-combatant population in Gaza?

If you can determine that then I will give you a knighthood and the Nobel Peace Prize.