Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[TomC]

If you can determine that then I will give you a knighthood and the Nobel Peace Prize.

Were I able to unscramble an egg like that,
I'd start with trying to figure out how to stop the USA from installing Trump.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

Given the reality that there are people in Gaza that are not Hamas combatants, while Hamas continues to pursue the destruction of Israel, what sustainable path forward can ensure security for Israel and a viable future for the non-combatant population in Gaza?

If you can determine that then I will give you a knighthood and the Nobel Peace Prize.

You can't name one?

Negotiated Two-State Solution
Strengthening Moderate Leadership
International Mediation
Economic Development
Security Cooperation
Humanitarian Aid and Reconstruction
People-to-People Programs
Regional Cooperation
Addressing Core Issues
Ceasefires and Confidence-Building Measures

Edit: If they choose to treat Gazans similarly to how marginalized communities are often neglected in the USA—by ignoring the historical factors that led to their situation, demanding they figure it out on their own while simultaneously hindering their progress—they can expect Gazans to continue to struggle. Only difference is niggas don't have a nation like Iran arming Negro militants.

Edit: I'm talking about the people of Gaza, not Hamas. So please don't put on a superhero cape and go soaring through the sky shouting, 'They've tried to negotiate multiple times.' I'm focused on winning over the people and helping them secure their country from organizations like Hamas and Iran's influences.

Edit2: For the record, America has won me over. However, not everyone who shares my background feels the same way, and I understand why. I don't agree with them, but I can see where they're coming from.

 

[Gospel]

For the record, Israel has already demonstrated its capability, as seen in the West Bank. While conditions there aren't perfect, it shows a different approach is possible. They only need to add the things I mentioned above to the people of Gaza after kicking the living shit out of Hamas.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Given the reality that there are people in Gaza that are not Hamas combatants, while Hamas continues to pursue the destruction of Israel, what sustainable path forward can ensure security for Israel and a viable future for the non-combatant population in Gaza?

Don't take away agency from the Palestinian people. The collective power of the Palestinians does exist. And for various reasons they've allowed themselves to be led by homicidal lunatics hellbent on Israels destruction. What responsibility do you give the Palestinian people for their collective actions? The western world were bending over backward to help PLO under Yassir Arafat. And then the PA under Abbas. Instead of trying to build a sustainable future, the only narrative that seems to stick among them is one of victimhood and revenge. So that money and support was wasted.

Passivising narratives where we do nothing but blame others for our circumstances are seductive and powerful. But they lead us nowhere. We're all responsible to rise above it. Both individually and collectively. Don't you think the Palestinian people have any responsibility for the current situation? Or to put it another way, actions have consequences. By allowing themselves to be led and represented by a terror organisation, haven't they brought this, extremely predictable, retaliation on themselves? I'm not saying they all deserve what is happening. But it is a logical result of previous actions taken. While it's easy to blame the 7/10 attack on the evil scheming rulers of Hamas and Iran... they have had popular Gazan support

 

[Gospel]

We've discussed the blame game at length, DrZoidberg. What I’m asking now is this: what sustainable path forward could genuinely ensure security for Israel and a viable future for the civilian population in Gaza? To me, it seems there are two primary options: annex Gaza and forcibly remove or eliminate the Palestinian population (reminiscent of America's treatment of Native Americans), or pursue the challenging path of winning over the people, helping them achieve stability, and supporting self-governance.

Unless there’s an option I’m overlooking (and please suggest one if you have it), which of these paths do you believe Israel should pursue? I’d prefer to not beat the dead horse about Hamas's actions or arguments that Palestinians brought this upon themselves. My question is: what, in your view, is Israel’s best course of action to ultimately resolve the security challenges Gaza presents to Israel?

 

[laughing dog]

For the record, Israel has already demonstrated its capability, as seen in the West Bank. While conditions there aren't perfect, it shows a different approach is possible. They only need to add the things I mentioned above to the people of Gaza after kicking the living shit out of Hamas.

While the situation in the West Bank is preferable to the situation in Gaza, that is not setting the bar very high. Furthermore, the situation in the West Bank has been deteriorating for years with the deterioration accelerating under the Netanahyu administration.

 

[Gospel]

Don't take away agency from the Palestinian people.

Given your perspective that Palestinians in Gaza may not have done enough to counter Hamas—and may not be willing to take the necessary steps to do so (please correct me if I’m mistaken)—what measures do you think Israel should take to address the security risks Gaza poses in light of this? Surely you'd agree that a indefinite conflict with Hamas or any other group operating in Gaza is not desirable. I'll say again,

What sustainable path forward could genuinely ensure security for Israel and a viable future for the civilian population in Gaza? To me, it seems there are two primary options: annex Gaza and forcibly remove or eliminate the Palestinian population (reminiscent of America's treatment of Native Americans), or pursue the challenging path of winning over the people, helping them achieve stability, and supporting self-governance.

Anyone is welcome to respond. While I appreciate insights into logistical, financial, ideological, legal specifics, or possibilities for success let’s avoid going off track—I’m asking this question for a particular reason, and you know exactly why.

 

[Tigers!]

We've discussed the blame game at length, DrZoidberg. What I’m asking now is this: what sustainable path forward could genuinely ensure security for Israel and a viable future for the civilian population in Gaza? To me, it seems there are two primary options: annex Gaza and forcibly remove or eliminate the Palestinian population (reminiscent of America's treatment of Native Americans), or pursue the challenging path of winning over the people, helping them achieve stability, and supporting self-governance.

Unless there’s an option I’m overlooking (and please suggest one if you have it), which of these paths do you believe Israel should pursue? I’d prefer to not beat the dead horse about Hamas's actions or arguments that Palestinians brought this upon themselves. My question is: what, in your view, is Israel’s best course of action to ultimately resolve the security challenges Gaza presents to Israel?

Prehaps this should be its own thread?

 

[Gospel]

Interesting—I thought this thread was about Gaza's attack on Israel, and my question is focused on what Israel should do about Gaza. If you prefer not to answer, feel free to ignore it.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Don't take away agency from the Palestinian people.

Given your perspective that Palestinians in Gaza may not have done enough to counter Hamas—and may not be willing to take the necessary steps to do so (please correct me if I’m mistaken)

That is correct. Islamic chauvinism is the normal baseline for Palestinians now. The idea that different religions can co-exist peacefully doesn't seem to exist anymore.

And this is a new attitude in Islam. Peaceful co-existance was certainly possible when they were Ottoman.

Who is responsible for this shift, of not Muslims?

—what measures do you think Israel should take to address the security risks Gaza poses in light of this? Surely you'd agree that a indefinite conflict with Hamas or any other group operating in Gaza is not desirable. I'll say again,

Palestinian self rule is now out of the question. The Palestinians have had many second chances. At some point enough is enough. Expecting more patience from Israel is absurd. I don't think there's any example of a country who has dealt with more shit from a neighbour

What sustainable path forward could genuinely ensure security for Israel and a viable future for the civilian population in Gaza? To me, it seems there are two primary options: annex Gaza and forcibly remove or eliminate the Palestinian population (reminiscent of America's treatment of Native Americans), or pursue the challenging path of winning over the people, helping them achieve stability, and supporting self-governance.

Anyone is welcome to respond. While I appreciate insights into logistical, financial, ideological, legal specifics, or possibilities for success let’s avoid going off track—I’m asking this question for a particular reason, and you know exactly why.

Nobody sane seriously considers removing the Palestinians from Gaza. They have as much right to Israel as the Jews

But we clearly have to remove any sharp objects from Gaza until they learn to accept Jews living there as well

 

[Gospel]

Removing weapons and tools of violence from Gaza is a reasonable step, but doing so alone doesn't address the root of the issue—the underlying motivations and ideology that fuel hostility. For instance, when you said, 'Palestinian self-rule is now out of the question... Expecting more patience from Israel is absurd,' it reflects frustration but also underscores a cycle that keeps repeating.

As long as the core grievances and ideologies that drive conflict are unaddressed, Israel may find itself in an endless process of 'removing sharp objects' without achieving lasting security. True security comes not only from enforcing boundaries but also from engaging with the factors that create hostility. You might argue that addressing these deeper issues isn’t Israel's responsibility, but I disagree. Security is inherently tied to long-term stability, which can only come from addressing both immediate threats and the broader conditions that fuel them. Working with the people of Gaza and finding paths toward mutual understanding is, ultimately, part of that security.

But that's just the liberal in me I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Arctish]

Removing weapons and tools of violence from Gaza is a reasonable step, but doing so alone doesn't address the root of the issue—the underlying motivations and ideology that fuel hostility. For instance, when you said, 'Palestinian self-rule is now out of the question... Expecting more patience from Israel is absurd,' it reflects frustration but also underscores a cycle that keeps repeating.

As long as the core grievances and ideologies that drive conflict are unaddressed, Israel may find itself in an endless process of 'removing sharp objects' without achieving lasting security. True security comes not only from enforcing boundaries but also from engaging with the factors that create hostility. You might argue that addressing these deeper issues isn’t Israel's responsibility, but I disagree. Security is inherently tied to long-term stability, which can only come from addressing both immediate threats and the broader conditions that fuel them. Working with the people of Gaza and finding paths toward mutual understanding is, ultimately, part of that security.

But that's just the liberal in me I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

^Exactly this.^

Treating symptoms is important but treating the underlying cause is the only way to make the symptoms stop occurring.

It's in Israel's and Palestine's best interests to reach a mutually beneficial solution. Simply saying "they won't accept our terms" isn't good enough. You have to find terms they and you accept and build on them.

And you have to find the wherewithal to stay the course when the inevitable push back from extremists happens. We all know extremists will try to derail any agreements that don't meet their extreme demands. Don't let them control the agenda.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Removing weapons and tools of violence from Gaza is a reasonable step, but doing so alone doesn't address the root of the issue—the underlying motivations and ideology that fuel hostility. For instance, when you said, 'Palestinian self-rule is now out of the question... Expecting more patience from Israel is absurd,' it reflects frustration but also underscores a cycle that keeps repeating.

As long as the core grievances and ideologies that drive conflict are unaddressed, Israel may find itself in an endless process of 'removing sharp objects' without achieving lasting security. True security comes not only from enforcing boundaries but also from engaging with the factors that create hostility. You might argue that addressing these deeper issues isn’t Israel's responsibility, but I disagree. Security is inherently tied to long-term stability, which can only come from addressing both immediate threats and the broader conditions that fuel them.

When I asked my Israeli ex wife why she moved from Israel her answer was "I don't want to explode". That's an exact quote.



She followed up with saying that the Jerusalem café where she had breakfast every morning for years is now completely destroyed because of a suicide bomber.



For the Jews its just really really basic. They don't want to die. They don't want to have to live in constant fear.

Working with the people of Gaza and finding paths toward mutual understanding is, ultimately, part of that security.

You make ot sound like the Israelis haven’t tried this? They have tried everything. The problem is that the Palestinians (ie the representatives mandated by the Palestinian people) aren't interested in living in peace.



The Palestinians are willing to sacrifice everything, including their lives, to keep alive the hope that Palestine can he freed of Jews.

"From the river to the sea" is about the genocide of all Jews. Its a common chant in pro-Palestine rallys

But that's just the liberal in me I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm also a liberal. But liberalism is not big in the Middle-East. Arabs are extremely conservative. You can't force people to be liberal and tolerant. That's not how it works

 

[DrZoidberg]

It's in Israel's and Palestine's best interests to reach a mutually beneficial solution. Simply saying "they won't accept our terms" isn't good enough. You have to find terms they and you accept and build on them.

Sounds nice. But the Palestinians don't care about a mutually beneficial solution. So now what?

And you have to find the wherewithal to stay the course when the inevitable push back from extremists happens. We all know extremists will try to derail any agreements that don't meet their extreme demands. Don't let them control the agenda.

Perhaps you haven’t been paying attention, but the Palestinian people have been, and are, led by extremists. Its pretty clear that the average Palestinian is an extremist. There's no moderate Palestinian movement. Whenever a moderate Palestinian emerges the western powers shower money on them (Arafat, Abbas) and it turned out these people had no popular support. It was just a scam to fool the west out of money.

 

[bilby]

For the Jews its just really really basic. They don't want to die. They don't want to have to live in constant fear.

Unlike Muslims, who all relish death, and thrive on constant fear.

FFS. There is only one kind of person involved in this conflict - human.

Some (on any side) are fanatics, psychopaths, manipulators, and selfishly desirous of power and prestige regardless of who gets hurt by their ambitions.

Most (on all sides) just want to be able to live, and to get on with doing so without constant fear. No side has a monopoly on this desire, and to insinuate that they do, is to support the fanatics.

 

[DrZoidberg]

For the Jews its just really really basic. They don't want to die. They don't want to have to live in constant fear.

Unlike Muslims, who all relish death, and thrive on constant fear.

FFS. There is only one kind of person involved in this conflict - human.

Some (on any side) are fanatics, psychopaths, manipulators, and selfishly desirous of power and prestige regardless of who gets hurt by their ambitions.

Most (on all sides) just want to be able to live, and to get on with doing so without constant fear. No side has a monopoly on this desire, and to insinuate that they do, is to support the fanatics.

What an ignorant and clueless comment.

Its the Palestinians (together with other Muslims) who have kept this conflict going.

How does your theory explain that?

 

[laughing dog]

To the functionally literate who understand the term fanatic, bilby’s observations clearly explain it - fanatics and the useful dupes keep it going.

 

[DrZoidberg]

To the functionally literate who understand the term fanatic, bilby’s observations clearly explain it - fanatics and the useful dupes keep it going.

If being a fanatic is the norm in a population then most people in that population are guilty of keeping a conflict going. Its then silly to try to blame the conflict on a small subset of the Palestinians.

Because of western racism and tokenism the western left have embraced Muslim immigrants while ignoring what they are saying.

Stop placing your liberal fantasy into the mouths of the Palestinians. Listen to what they are saying

 

[Arctish]

It's in Israel's and Palestine's best interests to reach a mutually beneficial solution. Simply saying "they won't accept our terms" isn't good enough. You have to find terms they and you accept and build on them.

Sounds nice. But the Palestinians don't care about a mutually beneficial solution. So now what?

You make it sound like Palestinians all share some kind of over-mind and that they have no desire for what benefits them individually, only what will benefit the hive, and they haven't a clue that what benefits the hive is fewer killings of hive members and less destruction of the hive itself.

You make it sound like the PA isn't pursuing a diplomatic solution by working with other nations and the UN.

You make it sound like there never was a peace agreement the Palestinians backed, never a deal that they honored, never some kind of, oh let's call it an "Accord", that they wanted implemented which would have guaranteed the existence of both a Palestinian State and the State of Israel, each with their own focus on upholding and defending the Rights of their populations while respecting the Rights of their neighbors as well.

It's arrant nonsense, and that's putting it mildly.

And you have to find the wherewithal to stay the course when the inevitable push back from extremists happens. We all know extremists will try to derail any agreements that don't meet their extreme demands. Don't let them control the agenda.

Perhaps you haven’t been paying attention, but the Palestinian people have been, and are, led by extremists. Its pretty clear that the average Palestinian is an extremist. There's no moderate Palestinian movement. Whenever a moderate Palestinian emerges the western powers shower money on them (Arafat, Abbas) and it turned out these people had no popular support. It was just a scam to fool the west out of money.

Perhaps you haven't been paying attention but the Israelis have been, and are, led by extremists as well.

Menachem Begin was an Irgun terrorist.

Yitzhak Shamir was a Lehi terrorist.

David Ben Gurion and Moshe Sharett coordinated with Begin and Shamir when Plan Dalet was developed and implemented, and worked with them after Zionists declared the existence of the State of Israel.

Ariel Sharon was found guilty of war crimes by an Israeli court.

Netanyahu claimed he personally sabotaged the Oslo Accords, led the mock funeral procession (with coffin and a hangman's noose) at the rally of extremists who chanted "Death to Rabin" for hours because Rabin had agreed to a peace deal, was a leader of the same extremist faction(s) that produced not only Rabin's murderer but also the terrorist who murdered scores and wounded over a hundred of unarmed people as they knelt in prayer, honored terrorists with a gala event featuring a real, live terrorist guests could talk to about the murders he helped commit, and that's not even taking into account his more recent activities and who has has working for him in his administration.

If you think the extremist are all Palestinians then you really don't know who's who in this conflict.

Anyway, extremists have been in control of the agenda since Rabin was murdered and Abbas failed to deliver a Palestinian State to the Palestinian people. That has to change for there to be peace.

Hamas must be defeated and removed from power. The extremists in Israel, currently empowered by Netanyahu pushing their agenda, have to be defeated as well. Hopefully that can happen without bloodshed but I don't think it will. Kach might be banned as a party but it's philosophy is alive and well in the settlements. I expect things will get even uglier there if/when they feel their influence waning.

 

[bilby]

For the Jews its just really really basic. They don't want to die. They don't want to have to live in constant fear.

Unlike Muslims, who all relish death, and thrive on constant fear.

FFS. There is only one kind of person involved in this conflict - human.

Some (on any side) are fanatics, psychopaths, manipulators, and selfishly desirous of power and prestige regardless of who gets hurt by their ambitions.

Most (on all sides) just want to be able to live, and to get on with doing so without constant fear. No side has a monopoly on this desire, and to insinuate that they do, is to support the fanatics.

What an ignorant and clueless comment.

Its the Palestinians (together with other Muslims) who have kept this conflict going.

How does your theory explain that?

What an ignorant and clueless comment.

It's the fanatics on both sides who have kept this conflict going.

I don't have a theory, I am making an observation.

An obvious and easily made observation, that you would do well to repeat for yourself.