Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[steve_bank]

Harry, a political choice is always the lessor of two evils.

Biden has been fact checked a number f times by other than FOX.

Biden was a far better choice than Trump for sure. Biden is a spend-aholic.

On spending for both Ukraine and Israel he said 'For god's sake we are the most powerful nation on Earth we can do both'. The old myth of American invincibility.

We spend billions on Ukraine and now Israel, yet we have housing issues and the a worsening border crisis.

We keep intervening and in the long run make things worse. We keep unguent elsewhere and get nowhere at home.

We build schools and hospitals abroad yet we have an education and health care problem at home.

We have given Israel's policies in Gaza and the West Bank cover for too long enabling Israel leading to the boiling point we see now.

I think Biden is caught up in the moment. The role of coming to the rescue of Jews in need.

If I were in the militray today and ordered to fight in Gaza I would refuse to go.

Obama said on the region they are all going to have to figure things out for themselves. We keep medling in paces where in the end nobody wants us to meddle.

In our American arrogance we keep thinking if make the right manipulations and foreign polcies we can affect the future to our advantage, and we keep failing.

Part of it is weapons sales. We sold weapons to Saudi Arabia and they used it on Sudan. Sudan was described as a cemetery, yet nobody cared.

Its the old situational ethics and foreign policy.

Biden is just more of the same.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

With a picture of AOC, Rashida Tlaib, and Ilhan Omar labeled "Hamas Caucus".

Robin on X: "@CoriBush The Hamas Caucus must be expelled (pic linK)" / X with another picture of these three, along with Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib, Jamaal Bowman, Greg Casar, and Summer Lee.

Typical Zionist propaganda. If you don't support the genocide of Palestinians you support Hamas.

Is it Zionist? I'd propose it is no more Zionist than DeSantis railing against socialist candidates being about economics.

WTF are you talking about?

That is it is merely an attempt to make those women looks like supporters of terrorists to generally demonize the Democrat as a whole as part of an effort to poison the Dems for the next election.

I'm saying it is bullshit politicking that has nothing to do with Zionism or Israel.

 

[Gospel]

Oh, right, because someone isn't on the Zionists' payroll, they couldn't possibly parrot things that just happens to benefit them.

On a more positive note, I'm not too alarmed about Biden's speech anymore. I think he sent the right message in other ways. Particularly..

Despite setbacks, Biden reaches aid breakthrough on Israel trip

The president announced the U.S. will be providing $100 million in humanitarian assistance for Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank to support the more than a million displaced people in need of water, food, medical care and other needs.

www.pbs.org

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

All things equal, Biden couldn't have done it any better. Imagine Trump in that position?

 

[jonatha]

All things equal, Biden couldn't have done it any better. Imagine Trump in that position?

Standing at the border crossing tossing paper towels to the Palestinians?

 

[TV and credit cards]

All things equal, Biden couldn't have done it any better. Imagine Trump in that position?

Standing at the border crossing tossing paper towels to the Palestinians?

Gaza, Iowa is about as close as he'd get.

 

[ZiprHead]

Josh Paul, Director of Congressional and Public Affairs at the State Department, working there for 11 years, has resigned over the Administration's decision to send weapons to Israel.

Josh Paul on LinkedIn: Explaining my resignation | 1,857 comments

Today I informed my colleagues that I have resigned from the State Department, due to a policy disagreement concerning our continued lethal assistance to… | 1,857 comments on LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com

He left a two page statement.

 

[lostone]

In any case, we can see the raw power of AIPAC in the US. Law firms canceling hiring Harvard students involved in protest movements. Even Jewish protestors, like those in IfNotNow and Jewish Voices for Peace. To express any doubt about the US unwaverying support for Israel, even if you are Jewish, can endanger your economic future.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Horrible stuff. IDF says it's an errant Islamic Jihad missile. Which is very much plausible. Palestinian rockets have misfired frequently in previous conflicts and killed people inside Gaza Strip.
Palestinian Rockets in May Killed Civilians in Israel, Gaza
it is also possible that there was a Hamas explosives cache on the grounds of the hospitals. Schools, mosques and hospitals are frequently used by Gaza terror groups to store their weapons.

Since Israel says they intercepted Islamic Jihad communications that showed it was their rocket I would be very surprised if it wasn't. They wouldn't make a specific claim without evidence.

 

[robnisch]

So, what is the Final Solution?

 

[bilby]

They wouldn't make a specific claim without evidence.

Sure. Of course they wouldn't. They're the only humans in the history of the species who refuse to tell a lie (with the exception of George Washington, obviously).

 

[Copernicus]

...

Horrible stuff. IDF says it's an errant Islamic Jihad missile. Which is very much plausible. Palestinian rockets have misfired frequently in previous conflicts and killed people inside Gaza Strip.
Palestinian Rockets in May Killed Civilians in Israel, Gaza
it is also possible that there was a Hamas explosives cache on the grounds of the hospitals. Schools, mosques and hospitals are frequently used by Gaza terror groups to store their weapons.

Since Israel says they intercepted Islamic Jihad communications that showed it was their rocket I would be very surprised if it wasn't. They wouldn't make a specific claim without evidence.

Israel has already used Al Jazeera video footage to try to make their case that it was a misfired missile by Gaza terrorists that caused the hospital explosion. Here is Al Jazeera's rebuttal:

Video investigation: What hit al-Ahli Hospital in Gaza?​

It's one thing to have evidence. It's another thing to misinterpret and misrepresent the evidence that one has.

 

[Harry Bosch]

So, what is the Final Solution?

It's pretty fucking bleak there now. I think that the chances of a peace are less than 5% in the next 50 years. Hamas needs to be destroyed. But there is no peace possible while the Israeli right is in power also. Netie has been trying to disband the Israeli courts because the courts are the only group trying to restrain the settlers. If settlers expand onto the rest of the land, there is no peace possible.

 

[barbos]

They wouldn't make a specific claim without evidence.

Sure. Of course they wouldn't. They're the only humans in the history of the species who refuse to tell a lie (with the exception of George Washington, obviously).

Them and ukrainians.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Note that your own source lists "thirst" as a reason a siege may be decided. Thus you are proving my point--this is a siege.

All of the problems you mention have been inflicted by Hamas, yet you blame Israel for them.

But "thirst" is not a definitive part of the meaning of "siege". Cutting off water and food of surrounding a fortified location is, but Gaza is not a fortified location. It is a quarantined location. Gaza exists to concentrate and isolate a Palestinian Arab population that has become subjugated by a terrorist organization. That population is as much a victim and a hostage of Hamas as are the recently captured hostages from Israel. And their long captivity has been ignored by an Israeli government that is, at best, indifferent to their fate, if not hostile. So I do blame Israel for that. For its lack of humanity and compassion when it comes to Palestinian Arabs quarantined and condemned to live in Gaza under the thumb of Hamas. The Israeli government created that quarantined population and allowed it to fester for almost a full generation, thinking that it could always just keep them locked up and cut off. And Israelis, unlike Gazans, were able to choose their government. Not all Israelis chose these policies, but the majority were always at least complicit in it. Don't blame the Gazans for complicity in a government that they did not elect. Nobody outside of Gaza intervened to make sure that they could have fair elections, and the Israeli government never cared enough to do anything about their predicament in the past.

Gaza is a fortified location. Built-up areas inherently are fortified locations in modern combat.

I do agree the population is a victim of Hamas (and Tehran) but that doesn't change the situation. And Israel did what it needed to for self defense, you continue to blame Israel for the actions of others. And don't blame Israeli policies--the driving force is terrorist money, not Israel.

Yeah, they don't have the ability to surrender because Hamas denies it. Not Israel. Quit blaming Israel for the actions of the Palestinians.

Wait a minute. You claim Hamas denies Palestinians the ability to surrender, but they--the Palestinians--somehow had the ability to resist Hamas when it decided to launch a brutal terrorist attack on Israel. They apparently have no power to control Hamas until they do in your mind, and I think that this is the basic contradiction I've seen in so many minds of so many Israelis and their supporters. Palestinians are somehow to blame, as if they chose to confine themselves to Gaza and be ruled by a terrorist organization that has not dared to allow any rivals to challenge their grip on power. You want to have it both ways--Palestinians can't choose to surrender, but they can choose to stop a terrorist attack.

The Palestinians are victims. What you refuse to accept is that they are victims of Arab and Iranian actions. They're a stick of wood being used to beat on the Israeli concrete. Blame the beater, not the concrete.

And you can safely assume all hospitals have plenty of Hamas stuff. I haven't caught up with things to know what hospital you are talking about but a Palestinian hospital suddenly going boom isn't exactly shocking given that plenty of other buildings there have spontaneously (mistakes with handling explosives) gone boom over the years.

Well, that kind of paranoid assumption is exactly what leads so many outside observers to fall for the claim that Israel, not Hamas, saw that hospital as a military target that could legitimately been taken out. I honestly believe that, if anyone deliberately targeted the hospital, it was Hamas rather than the Israeli government. However, I think it more reasonable to assume that one of the two sides firing ballistic missiles around indiscriminately may have made a miscalculation or mistake that resulted in a horrific atrocity. At least, I would rather believe that, but I honestly think that either side could have done it. This is what happens in blood feuds between warring tribes.

Paranoid assumption?? No, that's simply how it works over there.

And Israel isn't firing ballistic missiles in the first place. They're dropping guided bombs. It turns out it was an Islamic Jihad rocket that fell short. Note, also, that Israel has no reason to drop a round into a hospital parking lot. Hamas fighters who are not actively attacking simply aren't worth targeting. Israel shoots at those actively threatening Israel (remember the issues of people being shot for trying to climb the fence? Now we see it was Hamas probing just how far they could go before Israel would shoot--attack preparations), Hamas logistics and Hamas command. It doesn't bother with shooting the grunts if they aren't actively attacking.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think that Biden is probably taking the Israeli intelligence claims at face value. Here is a Jerusalem Post story that explains the Israeli side:

Agreed. This is a positive claim "we caught Islamic Jihad in the act", not merely a negative claim "we didn't drop there." When they make positive claims they're almost certainly solid.

Of course, one has to trust the IDF not to be doctoring the evidence or concocting their own campaign to blame "the other team", to use Biden's simplistic description. Israel obviously had surveillance intelligence that showed rocket launchers in that location. Hence, they could have launched a missile attack on that location in which one of their own missiles went astray and hit the hospital or an adjacent ammo stockpile (which was also said to have blown up and caused some of the damage). There isn't any explicit evidence of a missile hitting the hospital from any direction, AFAICT. The IDF claims that they fired no missiles at the area from land, sea, or air.

And a few posts ago I was called paranoid for suggesting there were rocket stores there. I was expecting Hamas stuff, not Islamic Jihad, though.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

One can think of the Gaza withdrawal as a test for West Bank. And Palestinians failed spectacularly at being a peaceful neighbor when given a chance. They could have built their economy. Instead they invested in thousands of rockets and a network of tunnels.
Nobody in Israel would want West Bank to turn into a second, much larger, Gaza. Can you really blame them?

Exactly. The world can see what happens when Israel gives them what they want. Yet the world wants more of the same.

I started out thinking this woman was nuts: People Love Dead Jews

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And then bombs near the exit to boot. How many years has this conflict been going on and we've gotten nowhere? Political leaders shouldn't be proud of themselves.

Of course we have gotten nowhere. I would be quite surprised at any other outcome. The Muslims need their Eastasia and pour billions into it. Terrorist conflicts with external support persist so long as the support does.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And, this time Derec was right, when he said that the evidence regarding the horrific hospital attack was due to a Hamas rocket, although based on what I've read, it may have been a miss fire. However, I strongly disagree with him regarding how Israel should respond. I'm not against anyone based on their religious beliefs and I hate what American Palestinians are also dealing with due to some of the hatred here directed at them. Regardless, the evidence is that the attack on the hospital wasn't done by Israel, yet people are all up in arms in the Arabic countries, probably because they don't believe it or don't want to believe it. What a mess.

Except for being Islamic Jihad rather than Hamas a misfile was the most likely explanation from the start. And it looks like the misfire took out the ready ammunition also.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And, this time Derec was right, when he said that the evidence regarding the horrific hospital attack was due to a Hamas rocket, although based on what I've read, it may have been a miss fire.

Technically, it wasn't Hamas, but an allied terrorist group--Islamic Jihad--that launched the missile. They apparently pick locations close to locations like hospitals and schools from which to launch missiles, making it more difficult for Israel to target them without causing civilian casualties. I wonder to what extent Israel is able to use drones, which could theoretically be used to target mobile launchers more accurately rather than lobbing missiles at a fixed location.

Laser guided bombs are pretty accurate. The problem is when you hit an ammunition store you're prone to getting secondaries. Had Israel hit it we would have seen something similar.