Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Politesse]

The Palestinians have suffered a lot, for many decades, under Israeli oppression. They are routinely evicted from their land; their homes are destroyed; they are fenced off; embargoed; and so on. Israel's depravities are too obscene and despicable for me to read about, but I did notice that Israel has turned off the electricity in Gaza. Heaven forbid that hospitals be capable of tending to the women and children Israel military is maiming.

Not just electricity, they are blocking food and water now as well.

It's not anti-Semitic to oppose the commission of war crimes. To which category, denying food, water and electricity to millions of civilians in undisguised attempt to starve them into submission certainly qualifies.

From the Fourth Geneva Convention:

"Civilians are to be protected from murder, torture or brutality, and from discrimination on the basis of race, nationality, religion or political opinion. Hospital and safety zones may be established for the wounded, sick, and aged, children under 15, expectant mothers and mothers of children under seven. Civilian hospitals and their staff are tobe protected ... The safety, honor, family rights, religious practices, manners and customs of civilians are to be respected. Pillage, reprisals, indiscriminate destruction of property and the taking of hostages are prohibited. They are not to be subjected to collective punishment or deportation."

 

[laughing dog]

In Gaza, Hamas officials have defended the demonstrations, ostensibly held to protest issues including the treatment of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails and Jewish visits to the Al Aqsa mosque compound, a site holy to both Muslims and Jews, who know it as the Temple Mount.

I knew I could find some mention of it in a western news source if I put my nose to it.
What I'm getting out of all of this is these ultranationalist Jewish groups are emboldened by Trump.il
So I'm guessing this is how it all started... this time.

Yep. Whenever we trace the chain of cause and effect leading to an unfortunate event, since it would be boring to follow the chain all the way to the Big Bang, we're going to stop somewhere. Where? The correct place to stop is at an act of choice by the oppressors. The oppressors are moral agents with free will; the oppressed are just doing what they're deterministically caused to do by the oppressors' actions. The oppressed are automatons. (Presumably, pushdown automatons.)

The "Big Bang" depends on who is telling the story, Each side has its own version of the "Big Bang" and it is always to the other side's fault.

 

[Elixir]

Of course Republicans are blaming it on Biden...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

9 Americans killed in Israel. This seems more precarious than average. I mean terrorists were suicide bombing civilians for a while back 20 years ago, but that was small doses of awful. This is accumulating quickly.

Hamas and Hezbollah can't win. Israel can kill them, but it'll require a lot of collateral damage, and in the end, they can't win either, short of a massive genocide. The military and terrorists can't end this. It needs to be political and no one has the capacity to see to that.

 

[Gospel]

Is this that war that ends & starts every time a side strikes? If that's the case, the aggressor is the villain this time.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

A pox on everybody's house.

 

[Gospel]

Hardly anyone seems to remember when they lived together in peace until the British brandished a piece of toilet paper.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Of course Republicans are blaming it on Biden...

Israeli intelligence totally missed this. So did U.S. Intelligence. And everybody else's intelligence service. This will be a big scandal of this year. The Republicans have members sitting on oversight committees over seeing the CIA, NSA, several military intelligence outfits so they get blame also.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Is this that war that ends & starts every time a side strikes? If that's the case, the aggressor is the villain this time.

An estimated 700 civilians were murdered (the word slaughter might be more appropriate) by Hamas. That makes this a bit more than just a "strike" or a volley of missiles that damaged a decorative shrub.

 

[Elixir]

The Republicans have members sitting on oversight committees over seeing the CIA, NSA…

But Biden kept them from doing anything about it by refusing to endorse Kevin the Traitor. Now it’s all his fault if anything bad happens while the GQP is busy trying to purge its few remaining rational members.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Hardly anyone seems to remember when they lived together in peace until the British brandished a piece of toilet paper.

Not really. In 1923, there were for example, Muslim riots and attacks on Jews in Jerusalem. Jews fleeing the Holocaust were attacked in Israel by Muslim gangs. It was never without violence there.

 

[hyzer]

nina paley this land is mine

 

[Gospel]

Is this that war that ends & starts every time a side strikes? If that's the case, the aggressor is the villain this time.

An estimated 700 civilians were murdered (the word slaughter might be more appropriate) by Hamas. That makes this a bit more than just a "strike" or a volley of missiles that damaged a decorative shrub.

Yeah sure. I've somehow posted something apologetic to Hamas though I find the leadership on both sides of this war shit.

Hardly anyone seems to remember when they lived together in peace until the British brandished a piece of toilet paper.

Not really. In 1923, there were for example, Muslim riots and attacks on Jews in Jerusalem. Jews fleeing the Holocaust were attacked in Israel by Muslim gangs. It was never without violence there.

That happened after the toilet paper was brandished.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Is this that war that ends & starts every time a side strikes? If that's the case, the aggressor is the villain this time.

An estimated 700 civilians were murdered (the word slaughter might be more appropriate) by Hamas. That makes this a bit more than just a "strike" or a volley of missiles that damaged a decorative shrub.

Yeah sure. I've somehow posted something apologetic to Hamas though I find the leadership on both sides of this war shit.

There is no doubt that the Israeli/Palestinian problems share a lot owners of blame. I just wanted to point out this particular attack was much more brutal. Often Hamas will launch dumb rockets just rarely do anything. A big deal will be made of it, bla bla. This wasn't a bla bla attack.

Hardly anyone seems to remember when they lived together in peace until the British brandished a piece of toilet paper.

Not really. In 1923, there were for example, Muslim riots and attacks on Jews in Jerusalem. Jews fleeing the Holocaust were attacked in Israel by Muslim gangs. It was never without violence there.

That happened after the toilet paper was brandished.

Was there much of an Israeli population there before that?

 

[Gospel]

Was there much of an Israeli population there before that?

While the numbers may seem modest, it's the motivations behind their presence that stands out. Before the introduction of the toilet paper, their primary reason for residing there was religious, seeking a spiritual connection with the Holy Land. After the toilet paper's unveiling, many were driven by the goal of establishing the state of Israel—a distinct shift in motivation.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

I remember many years ago whem Hamas leaders won election in Gaza. They were offering violence. "Our rockets will darken the skies!". And more like this. They won with overwhelming approval of Gaza voters. And rockets and attacks happened as promised. Hamas never tried to halt the rocket attacks. It never got them anything but sorrow and reprisal. I feel sorry for those who suffer due the Hamas stupidity and useless attacks on Israel that gain them nothing but death and suffering. But those who voted for Hama knowing very well Hamas was dedicated to violent military attacks on Israel get a big part of the blame for their own suffering. I have little patience for this stupidity.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Is this that war that ends & starts every time a side strikes? If that's the case, the aggressor is the villain this time.

An estimated 700 civilians were murdered (the word slaughter might be more appropriate) by Hamas. That makes this a bit more than just a "strike" or a volley of missiles that damaged a decorative shrub.

Yeah sure. I've somehow posted something apologetic to Hamas though I find the leadership on both sides of this war shit.

There is no doubt that the Israeli/Palestinian problems share a lot owners of blame. I just wanted to point out this particular attack was much more brutal. Often Hamas will launch dumb rockets just rarely do anything. A big deal will be made of it, bla bla. This wasn't a bla bla attack.

Hardly anyone seems to remember when they lived together in peace until the British brandished a piece of toilet paper.

Not really. In 1923, there were for example, Muslim riots and attacks on Jews in Jerusalem. Jews fleeing the Holocaust were attacked in Israel by Muslim gangs. It was never without violence there.

That happened after the toilet paper was brandished.

Was there much of an Israeli population there before that?

No. There were Jews coming from Europe to escape the holocaust. And big influx of Russian Jews in the 90's. Before WW2, there were Jews, but hardly in overwhelming numbers. After WW2, surving Jews in Europe still faced pogroms and murder, and those who survived left hostile parts of Europe, many to Israel

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I remember many years ago whem Hamas leaders won election in Gaza. They were offering violence. "Our rockets will darken the skies!". And more like this. They won with overwhelming approval of Gaza voters. And rockets and attacks happened as promised. Hamas never tried to halt the rocket attacks.

Maybe I'm misremembering history. I recall Hamas winning an election because the Palestinians really had exhausted all other choices. The world reaction was pretty swift at not even considering allowing Hamas to be recognized as leaders, while Hamas was willing meet demands about one-quarter way, pretty much not agreeing to accepting Israel's existence.

I remember no one trying to make it work. And the outcome was a complete an utter failure for most parties involved, primarily the Palestinians, who would just end up having elected another group who couldn't actually govern, but in this case, Hamas wasn't even allowed a chance to govern. Would it have worked? Honestly, I saw no other option at the time and clearly the ignore it solution didn't provide any benefit.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

For years, the radicals made their rockets, drove them near the border and launched them, and drove home. The Gaza authorities never made any real attempt to stop this.
What can you say? Hamas was part of the problem.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yeah, Hamas is part of the problem. So was the IRA in the UK or RAFC in Colombia (the Taliban in Afghanistan). Sometimes pragmatism is a stone cold bitch!

The we aren't negotiating with anyone tactic didn't work. It was an odd opportunity that might not have worked at all, but it was an opportunity. When in a position of leadership, it becomes harder to be obstinate (ignore Trump please), as your actions carry absolute weight with repercussions. But no one even tried. So it is was an aberration of history that provided the world a small chance, that went entirely unanswered.