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Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

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She didn't actually mention Israel, either, but everyone already knew the parties engaged in combat. Tlaib expressed her opinion that the terrorist attack had been long in coming and that Israel could have avoided it, if it had tried to resolve issues earlier instead of essentially quarantining and ignoring the Palestinian populations in Gaza and the West Bank.
Resolve exactly how? Every time Israel offers concessions, Palestinians respond with violence and terror. 10/7 was no different, given that Israel had extended thousands of work permits to Gazans before that.
'
And how do you resolve issues with a group that wants this:

It can't be done. Hamas must be destroyed. No two ways about it.

That is not the same as endorsing the terrorist regime in Gaza, which Israel itself knew was a terrorist regime. And it is also an opinion held by a significant minority of Non-Palestinian Israelis.
Exactly what do you, Tlaib, and these alleged many "non-Palestinian Israelis" think can be done concretely in face of Hamas? Which is, btw., very popular among Palestinians.
Poll finds nearly 80% of Palestinians want Abbas to resign
 
She didn't actually mention Israel, either, but everyone already knew the parties engaged in combat. Tlaib expressed her opinion that the terrorist attack had been long in coming and that Israel could have avoided it, if it had tried to resolve issues earlier instead of essentially quarantining and ignoring the Palestinian populations in Gaza and the West Bank.
Resolve exactly how? Every time Israel offers concessions, Palestinians respond with violence and terror. 10/7 was no different, given that Israel had extended thousands of work permits to Gazans before that.
'
And how do you resolve issues with a group that wants this:

It can't be done. Hamas must be destroyed. No two ways about it.

That is not the same as endorsing the terrorist regime in Gaza, which Israel itself knew was a terrorist regime. And it is also an opinion held by a significant minority of Non-Palestinian Israelis.
Exactly what do you, Tlaib, and these alleged many "non-Palestinian Israelis" think can be done concretely in face of Hamas? Which is, btw., very popular among Palestinians.
Poll finds nearly 80% of Palestinians want Abbas to resign
Abbas is viewed as corrupt and pointless. That does not mean Hamas is popular.
 
She was likely wrong about the hospital explosion, but it is hardly a criticism of a Palestinian Arab representative to point out that her sympathies lie with Palestinian Arabs rather than the Israeli government.
Over the US government too. Maybe she should have run for Palestinian legislative instead of the US.
She is a Palestinian Arab, and she does appear to express the opinions of the majority of her constituents.
Does she though? The partisan primary system skews the representation toward the extremes, esp. in safe districts.

The US is a free country, and she is perfectly entitled to do that without being censured or expelled from Congress.
Tacitly taking the side of a terrorist organization is worth a censure I think. If she goes as far as providing material support, expelling her from Congress and referring her to DOJ for prosecution under 18 U.S.C. §2339B. But we are not that far yet. -

I cannot find any statement from her to corroborate your claim, but you don't bother to support it.
I did link to it in a previous post.
What I have seen is that she supports a one-state solution.
That's it! The so-called "one state solution" is, in effect, seeking to abolish Israel and replace it with "Palestine".

To me, that seems extremely unlikely to happen, although it would be the one I would favor ideologically, if it were practical and possible. That is not a desire to abolish Israel, but to transform it into a multiethnic nation in the same sense that the United States is a multiethnic country.
In the end it means abolishing Israel and replacing it with "Palestine" as the new state would be dominated by Muslims and Arabs due to their high birth rate. And they are also very hostile to Israelis, so Israeli Jews would be pressured to leave.


I have seen no evidence of that, and you assert it without support. So I disagree with your unsupported opinion.
She accepted the Hamas claim about the hospital bombing and disbelieved the statements made by Biden about it. That is a fact.
Rep. Rashida Tlaib draws fire for not apologizing for saying Israel caused Gaza hospital blast
Do you mean "genocidal"?
Yes. Although, with enough firepower, I am sure Hamas would be geocidal as well.

If so, I would say that at least some Israelis consider their government policy in responding to the October 7 attack is genocidal--to target anyone in Gaza regardless of whether they had anything to do with that attack or even supported Hamas in any way. And that point has even been made by a few critical PMs in the Knesset. I stand by my statement.
IDF is not "targeting anyone in Gaza". They are targeting Hamas. Collateral damage happens in every war. That is not genocidal. Hamas aims are genocidal. Israeli aims are not.
Very definitely, but half the population of the Gaza Strip is children or teenagers, many of whom are being slaughtered in the Israeli bombardment.
How many of the dead and injured minors have been teenage combatants? Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups recruit and deploy them as young as 15 and 16.

Has it not occurred to you that the survivors of this debacle will feel motivated to join terrorist campaigns against Israel in the future? Do you not understand that this is a blood feud in which each side feels a need to settle scores? Israel has already killed far more Palestinians than Israelis who were killed and abducted on October 7.
Should Israel stop at 1400? Should US have stopped the War on Terror when ~3000 on the other side were killed?
Should US have called for a ceasefire with Japan as soon as they killed as many Japanese as were killed in Pearl Harbour?
That's a silly objection.

And that disparity will only grow wider as Israel presses its ground incursion into the Strip. If hostages are killed in the process, I will be surprised to hear that the Israeli government admits that any of them died by friendly fire. This ground invasion is definitely going to result in more hostages being killed, possibly the majority of those remaining alive today.
It is obvious Hamas will not release the hostages without Israel conceding to ridiculous demands like releasing 5,000 imprisoned terrorists. That mistake was made in 2010 and I hope Israel never makes it again. So Israel either tries to free hostages by storming Hamas or else they are as good as dead anyway.


Yes, she is pro-Palestinian all the way. Not pro-Hamas.
If she thinks Israel is at fault in this war, which was started by Hamas massacring 1,400 Israelis then she is really pro-Hamas even if she doesn't want to admit it. And I do not see how somebody can be "pro-Palestinian all the way" without also supporting Hamas atrocities.

I have seen nothing from her that suggests she thinks Hamas are good guys, that their use of terrorism is acceptable, or that she supports their control of the government in the Gaza Strip.
I see de facto support for what Hamas is doing. As you said, she is "pro-Palestinian all the way". So anything Israel does to defend itself from terror is wrong, and Palestinian terror is excused as "resistance" even as they slaughter civilians like on 10/7.
Again, she will not come out and say it verbatim, but her hostility toward Israel speaks loudly enough.
And it is a fact that Israel itself has partially funded Hamas in the past.
The precursor organization which started as a charity of sorts before they expanded into terrorism and genocide.

It is now coming out that the Netanyahu government has been extremely complacent and lax in recognizing the danger that Hamas extremists posed, and that is now coming back to haunt Netanyahu.
Yes, Netanyahu government made mistakes. Doesn't mean that every allegation leveled against them is true.


The WWII whataboutery analogy is being promoted by the Israeli government, because it is just a false analogy fallacy.
It's not whataboutery. Hamas is every bit as evil as NSDAP. And just like NSDAP, Hamas must be crushed.

One can always find a few similarities to build an analogy on, but it breaks down rapidly. The Japanese sneak attack was on a military target, and Japan had already secretly declared war on the US.
Japan was nowhere near the level of evil as Hamas.

Nazi Germany is a more apt comparison. Genocidal and antisemitic.

I could go on, but the analogy is simply absurd.
Of course there are strategic differences. The main similarity is the ideologies and the fact that Nazi Germany could not be left with a premature "ceasefire". Another analogy is that a certain number of civilian casualties are necessary to defeat evil.
 
She didn't actually mention Israel, either, but everyone already knew the parties engaged in combat. Tlaib expressed her opinion that the terrorist attack had been long in coming and that Israel could have avoided it, if it had tried to resolve issues earlier instead of essentially quarantining and ignoring the Palestinian populations in Gaza and the West Bank.
Resolve exactly how? Every time Israel offers concessions, Palestinians respond with violence and terror.

What concessions has Israel offered?

List them, please.
 
So what?
Have you ever heard of tankies?
Weren't those western communists who were fans of the communist Soviet Union?
So both are communist, i.e. leftist. I do not see the connection. You call Hamas right-wing, and yet it has many left-wing supporters throughout the world. Democratic Socialists of America being one for example.
 
What concessions has Israel offered?
Like 98% of the West Bank right before Arafat said "no" to any further negotiations and proclaimed the 2nd Intifada where many Israelis got murdered by terrorists.
I've heard it was 92%.

I've also heard it was 78%.

And I've heard it was ~90% of whatever parts of the West Bank that had not been claimed by Israel, occupied by settlers (both legal and illegal), or set aside for the IDF at the time of the implementation of the plan.

What I have not heard is the proposed borders, when and how the land would be formally recognized as not a part of Israel, the method of transfer of control (the one used in the Oslo Accords failed), or anything other than rumors, and neither have you. Do you want to know how I know that? I'll give you a hint. It has to do with the way the Camp David talks were conducted.

Anyway, I was asking for the list of concessions you keep talking about, not some alleged offer one guy may have made behind closed doors.

Also, you really should look into the origin and growth of the Second Intifada. You are utterly wrong in thinking Arafat "proclaimed" it.
 
So here is the most recent statement from the IDF regarding its deliberate bombing of the Jabalya Refugee camp. Basically, they knew there were civilians there, but they were targeting one senior Hamas commander. As of this interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, they could not confirm that they had killed him, but they had killed all of those civilians. The excuse is that they ordered everyone to flee south, which Israel is still bombarding, but that supposedly excused deliberately targeting civilians to get one Hamas commander. Hamas can use innocent people as human shields, but Israel takes the position that they are legitimate targets if used to shield Hamas facilities and personnel, even if the attack lacks proportionality. That is a war crime by international standards, but the IDF doesn't see it that way.

 
I did. Apparently you didn’t. In a 2 choice poll, Hamas got less than 50%.
45% is close to half, and that makes them popular, and not some fringe group. They are certainly far more popular than Fatah, that got 19% in that same poll.
It was a desperation vote. Abbas wasn't getting anything done. Hamas was selected to try and make something happen, because nothing happened regarding a deal between the two sides.
 
So here is the most recent statement from the IDF regarding its deliberate bombing of the Jabalya Refugee camp. Basically, they knew there were civilians there, but they were targeting one senior Hamas commander. As of this interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, they could not confirm that they had killed him, but they had killed all of those civilians. The excuse is that they ordered everyone to flee south, which Israel is still bombarding, but that supposedly excused deliberately targeting civilians to get one Hamas commander. Hamas can use innocent people as human shields, but Israel takes the position that they are legitimate targets if used to shield Hamas facilities and personnel, even if the attack lacks proportionality. That is a war crime by international standards, but the IDF doesn't see it that way.


When Israel's alt-right government isn't caring about optics, you know the radicals have bigger things planned. The gain of killing a "commander" seems almost negligible, especially when put in the optics of firing missiles at a refugee camp. What is next for Israel? I hate to think that the leaked document was legitimate, but when you start attacking a refugee camp, are we not to wonder if the intent of their actions is to displace the Palestinians outside of Gaza?

Israel could be a lot more surgical if they wanted. But they aren't.
 
Foreigners, wounded Palestinians allowed to leave Gaza for first time since war began

Expel all Palestinians from Gaza, leaked Israeli report says -- its three options:

A: The Palestinian Authority, which runs the West Bank, would also run the Gaza Strip.

B: Some "local Arab authority" would rune the Gaza Strip.

C: the evacuation of the civilian population from Gaza to Sinai," then "tent cities will be established in the area of Sinai," then "The next stage includes... the construction of cities in a resettled area in northern Sinai." Egypt will have a "sterile zone" and "The return of the population to activities/residences near the border with Israel should not be allowed," and "In addition, a security perimeter should be established in our territory near the border with Egypt."

In effect, drive them into the desert.
 
Egypt is ready to sacrifice millions of lives to protect its land from invasion: PM – Middle East Monitor
Egyptian Prime Minister Mostafa Madbouly said Cairo is committed to protecting its land and sovereignty at any cost, dismissing calls for Palestinians in Gaza to be displaced to the Sinai desert.

“We are ready to sacrifice millions of lives to protect our territory from any encroachment,” Madbouly said in a speech he gave in the Sinai. The event was attended by military leaders, local tribal leaders, members of parliament and other politicians.

The Egyptian prime minister added that his country would never allow itself to be imposed upon at its own expense. He further stated that a two-state solution is a comprehensive resolution that can guarantee regional peace.

Israel-Palestine war: Israel reportedly proposed writing off Egypt's debts for hosting Gaza refugees | Middle East Eye - "An Israeli news report claims that the Netanyahu government has offered a raft of proposals to entice Egypt to open its doors to two million displaced Palestinians, despite Cairo's rejection"
 
I did. Apparently you didn’t. In a 2 choice poll, Hamas got less than 50%.
45% is close to half, and that makes them popular, and not some fringe group. They are certainly far more popular than Fatah, that got 19% in that same poll.
Basic reasoning suggests that in a two choice option, less than 45% is not very popular or even popular. The poll does indicate given the two choices at the time, Hamas was more popular than Fatah.

In your zeal to paint Palestinians as a group as genocidal anti-semites, your misrepresentations do your arguments a disservice. Not that they need much help in that regard, but it makes one suspect anything you claim as true.
 
In your zeal to paint Palestinians as a group as genocidal anti-semites, your misrepresentations do your arguments a disservice.

Derec doesn't need help. Hamas has already done that.

From the late 40s to last month, the Islamists who prefer peace and prosperity over violent cultural and religious domination haven't gotten much done. Hamas and their ilk have.
Tom
 
From the late 40s to last month, the Islamists who prefer peace and prosperity over violent cultural and religious domination haven't gotten much done. Hamas and their ilk have.
I don't know that I'd go that far. Many Palestinian communities have been built despite Hamas and their theft of anything that can be used to make weapons.
 
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