Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Derec]

Derec, do you think the genocide you are advocating is that much better than Hamas's?

I am not advocating any genocide. Unlike Hamas.


Also, when you demand immediate ceasefire, what you are really demanding is allowing Hamas to remain in power in Gaza, to regroup and rearm and attack Israel again and again, like they have said they would.


Ceterum censeo Hamasem esse delendam.

Or shorter,

Hamas delenda est!

 

[Arctish]

UPenn student celebrating the 10/7 massacre at the purportedly "pro-Palestine", but really pro-Hamas protest.



May she be identified and never get hired by anyone.

Show

Knowing your fondness for mined quotes, I've been trying to find a longer video of this person's speech. Do you know where I can find one?

I also looked into Ritchie Torres, the guy who posted the video with the deceptive chyron. It appears he is in the habit of conflating criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism, which of course means that if someone speaks out against Zionism or the policies of the Netanyahu-led government, Mr. Torres will accuse them of hating Jewish people.

Interestingly, he supports the Two State solution. It appears he thinks Israel is wrong for continuing to oppress and rob Palestinians but objects to anyone saying Israel oppresses and robs Palestinians.

 

[Arctish]

Derec, do you think the genocide you are advocating is that much better than Hamas's?

I am not advocating any genocide. Unlike Hamas.

Yeah, you don't advocate any genocide, except when you do: Derec's opinion on what should be done about the situation in Gaza

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I don’t understand the point of finding individual instances of “indirect” advocation of violence or direct advocation of violence because I am unaware of any denial of the existence of such individuals.

It's possible that the point is to portray the entire set in the same way as the individuals, to make the set inhuman and thus whatever happens to them is justified by the side making them less than human.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Derec, do you think the genocide you are advocating is that much better than Hamas's?

I am not advocating any genocide.

So far 10,000 Gazans are dead and you've been as giddy as a school girl. If you are actually sad that Palestinians are dying, then you could in theory stop justifying their deaths by saying things similar to "yeah, well, they all support Hamas anyway" and "yippee!! they had to kill 20 Palestinians but got one Hamas!!11!" and instead say something more like "this is terrible that so many people are being killed. I hope the deaths will end soon." BUT we don't observe that.

 

[Copernicus]

Israelis believe that the world does not really understand what their situation is and what they are going through. And now they are seeing the tide of world opinion shifting away from them. The support and sympathy that was once there has begun to slip away, as this CNN article attempts to show:

The world is turning against Israel’s war in Gaza – and many Israelis don’t understand why​

“I used to consider myself part of the extreme liberals, whatever they call themselves. But when I see demonstrations with cries in support of Hamas and stuff like that, I doubt that the world understands complexity … and when they can’t understand complexity, they see this as a one-sided thing and their sense of justice is very simple. But it’s not simple,” he told CNN. “I think the governments understand this, but the people… I don’t know.”

As global leaders continue to pile pressure on Israel over the mounting civilian death toll from its bombardment of Gaza and huge crowds gather for pro-Palestinian protests in cities like London, Washington DC, Berlin, Paris, Amman and Cairo – almost all in support of civilians in Gaza, rather than Hamas – many Israelis are getting frustrated with what they see as unequal treatment.

It’s a feeling that cuts across the deep divisions within Israeli society: the world does not understand us.

It is true that the world does not really understand what it is like to be Israeli and Jewish any more than many Israeli Jews understand what it is like to be Palestinian and Arab. In fact, just about every country on the planet understands what it is like to have tensions between ethnic and cultural groups within the context of their own borders, but they don't understand those who live in different countries and have different ethnic rivalries. The US is certainly no stranger to such tensions with its past history of relations with Native American groups whose land it appropriated and with African Americans whose ancestors it enslaved.

As an American, I can relate to the cluelessness that many Americans suffer from. Our own country has its "Black Lives Matter" movement, which was a shortened expression for "Black Lives Matter as Much as Other Lives Matter". But that was too long, so the short form became the slogan. Many Americans, hearing that slogan, immediately thought "Wait. Other lives matter, too." So they adopted their own "All Lives Matter" slogan to counter their perception that BLM was all about making Black lives somehow deserving of special treatment, not the same treatment that other people were getting. The racially charged deaths that started the BLM movement were seen differently by many of those who did not feel threatened by those deaths.

When I look at what is happening in Israel from an American perspective, I do not share the same prejudices and stereotypes that Palestinian Arabs and Israeli Jews have for each other. I have my own to deal with, but I can relate to theirs in terms of how lives matter. Palestinian lives matter as much as Israeli lives from my perspective, but Arab Palestinians and Israeli Palestinians are all pretty much the same to me. They aren't to Arabs and Israelis. So it is possible for a Palestinian Arab to see the killing of Jews as just retribution for decades of oppression and for a Palestinian Jew to see the killing of Palestinian Arabs as just retribution for a brutal terrorist attack. The only remedy is for the violent killings to stop and for the two groups to work towards the unthinkable--living together in peace.

 

[Derec]

Knowing your fondness for mined quotes, I've been trying to find a longer video of this person's speech. Do you know where I can find one?

I do not know if there is one. But it's not a mined quote. It is rather obvious what she meant.

I also looked into Ritchie Torres, the guy who posted the video with the deceptive chyron.

It's not deceptive. Torres is, btw. a Democratic congressman from NY.

It appears he is in the habit of conflating criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism, which of course means that if someone speaks out against Zionism or the policies of the Netanyahu-led government, Mr. Torres will accuse them of hating Jewish people.

Often criticism of Israel is antisemitism. When "critics" deny Israel the right to self defense, that is antisemitism. When they ignore hundreds of thousands of dead Syrians because they were killed by their fellow Arabs, but call 10k dead Gazans "genocide", that is antisemitism.

Interestingly, he supports the Two State solution. It appears he thinks Israel is wrong for continuing to oppress and rob Palestinians but objects to anyone saying Israel oppresses and robs Palestinians.

I support the 2 state solution too. You know who doesn't? Hamas.

 

[Derec]

So far 10,000 Gazans are dead and you've been as giddy as a school girl.

I have not been "giddy". That is a malicious insult.

If you are actually sad that Palestinians are dying,

I am. But remember why Palestinians are dying. Because Hamas started this war by massacring 1,400 Israelis. And they say they will do it over and over again, until Israel is destroyed. That's why Hamas needs to be destroyed.

then you could in theory stop justifying their deaths by saying things similar to "yeah, well, they all support Hamas anyway" and "yippee!! they had to kill 20 Palestinians but got one Hamas!!11!"

Hamas is committing war crimes by placing their militant infrastructure inside or underneath civilian infrastructure. How do you propose to get to Hamas otherwise?

WATCH: IDF provides proof of Hamas rockets launched near schools, mosque

and instead say something more like "this is terrible that so many people are being killed. I hope the deaths will end soon." BUT we don't observe that.

All things being equal, of course I hope deaths will end soon. But a ceasefire is not a solution. It will just allow Hamas to regroup and rearm (from Iran) and attack Israel again. I posted the video where they say they plan to attack Israel over and over again. So what would be accomplished with a ceasefire now?

 

[Derec]

Yeah, you don't advocate any genocide, except when you do: Derec's opinion on what should be done about the situation in Gaza

I did not say Gaza must be destroyed, but Hamas.
We all should want for Hamas to be destroyed. Unless you are a Hamas supporter like that UPenn chick.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

We all should want for Hamas to be destroyed.

Semantics. We may wish Hamas did not exist, violent Israeli extremists, too, but we may not WANT the cost to get there including tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands dead, to achieve that end.

 

[laughing dog]

[

I am. But remember why Palestinians are dying.

The choices and actions of the IDF is the direct cause.

Because Hamas started this war by massacring 1,400 Israelis. And they say they will do it over and over again, until Israel is destroyed. That's why Hamas needs to be destroyed.

This destruction spawns terrorists of different stripes.

[

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

So far 10,000 Gazans are dead and you've been as giddy as a school girl.

I have not been "giddy". That is a malicious insult.

It isn't an insult as you were in fact REJOICING in the thread when a Hamas commander (and collateral civilians) were killed as a means to that end. Rejoicing is the very thing you accused the Squad of doing in your op. If you are truly sad at Palestinian deaths, then you need to work on better less one-sided justifications, rejoicing, and communication in general.

 

[Arctish]

Knowing your fondness for mined quotes, I've been trying to find a longer video of this person's speech. Do you know where I can find one?

I do not know if there is one. But it's not a mined quote. It is rather obvious what she meant.

I also looked into Ritchie Torres, the guy who posted the video with the deceptive chyron.

It's not deceptive.

Well then, where is the glorification of rape, slaughter, torture, and kidnapping the chyron says the video contains?

Torres is, btw. a Democratic congressman from NY.

Yes, I saw that. I also read about some of his other political positions and beliefs.

It appears he is in the habit of conflating criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism, which of course means that if someone speaks out against Zionism or the policies of the Netanyahu-led government, Mr. Torres will accuse them of hating Jewish people.

Often criticism of Israel is antisemitism.

It is often claimed to be antisemitism, and the evidence of antisemitism is just as often completely absent.

When "critics" deny Israel the right to self defense, that is antisemitism.

Do you have examples of people denying Israel the right to self defense? Or do you only have examples of people saying Israel has no right to kill indiscriminately or to continue expanding and to force Palestinians out of their homes and into reservations?

When they ignore hundreds of thousands of dead Syrians because they were killed by their fellow Arabs, but call 10k dead Gazans "genocide", that is antisemitism.

Interestingly, he supports the Two State solution. It appears he thinks Israel is wrong for continuing to oppress and rob Palestinians but objects to anyone saying Israel oppresses and robs Palestinians.

I support the 2 state solution too. You know who doesn't? Hamas.

Hamas has said it accepts the 1967 borders. Do you?

If not, where do you think Israel's borders should be?

 

[Derec]

Semantics. We may wish Hamas did not exist, violent Israeli extremists, too, but we may not WANT the cost to get there including tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands dead, to achieve that end.

It is not semantics. Outcomes are very different between destroying Hamas and leaving them in power to attack Israel again.
What is your solution here long term?

 

[Arctish]

Yeah, you don't advocate any genocide, except when you do: Derec's opinion on what should be done about the situation in Gaza

I did not say Gaza must be destroyed, but Hamas.

I quoted you directly. You said "Furthermore, I consider that Gaza should be dealt with as Carthage was dealt with by Rome."

That's a blatant call for genocide.

 

[Derec]

The choices and actions of the IDF is the direct cause.

Hamas started this war. Just like Nazi Germany started WWII.

This destruction spawns terrorists of different stripes.

Maybe eventually Palestinians will realize that terrorism is getting them nowhere.

 

[Derec]

Well then, where is the glorification of rape, slaughter, torture, and kidnapping the chyron says the video contains?

It's all part of the 10/7 terrorist attack this chick finds "glorious".

It is often claimed to be antisemitism, and the evidence of antisemitism is just as often completely absent.

If Israel is treated differently than every other country, by for example denying Israel the right to defend itself, then it is antisemitism.
No country would tolerate 1,400 of its citizens being slaughtered by a terrorist group. On a percentage basis, more Israelis were murdered in 10/7 than Americans on 9/11.

Do you have examples of people denying Israel the right to self defense?

There were calls for a "ceasefire" immediately after the terrorist attack. That is denying Israel the right to defend itself.

Or do you only have examples of people saying Israel has no right to kill indiscriminately or to continue expanding and to force Palestinians out of their homes and into reservations?

What "reservations"? Israel left Gaza in 2005, if you don't remember. Gaza had a choice before it. They chose terrorism, rather than peace.

Hamas has said it accepts the 1967 borders. Do you?

That's bullshit.
Leading Hamas official says no softened stance toward Israel

If not, where do you think Israel's borders should be?

They should be determined with negotiations. Like the negotiations Arafat broke off in 2000.
I do not think an armistice like from 1949 should necessarily be the final borders.

 

[Derec]

I quoted you directly.

I meant to say Hamas.

 

[Derec]

It isn't an insult as you were in fact REJOICING in the thread when a Hamas commander (and collateral civilians) were killed as a means to that end.

It is good to rejoice over the death of genocidal terrorists.

Rejoicing is the very thing you accused the Squad of doing in your op. If you are truly sad at Palestinian deaths, then you need to work on better less one-sided justifications, rejoicing, and communication in general.

Hamas needs to be destroyed for the good of Israelis as well as Palestinians. Palestinians in Gaza are suffering right now because of the war Hamas started.

 

[laughing dog]

The choices and actions of the IDF is the direct cause.

Hamas started this war. Just like Nazi Germany started WWII.

What is your obsession with Nazi Germany?

This destruction spawns terrorists of different stripes.

Maybe eventually Palestinians will realize that terrorism is getting them nowhere.

Why would you think they are faster learners than the leaders of Israel and their cheerleaders?