Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[laughing dog]

I care far more about the side that didn't choose war than the side that chose war crimes.

Both sides chose war.

Both sides are choosing war crimes.

Both sides chose war? No, Israel chose to not sit there and be slaughtered.

By engaging in war or are you saying Israel is responding with terrorism?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Geneva doesn't require what you think it requires. It does not require that you not hit a target protected by human shields.

That is not how I read them, and I think that your opinion basically negates any treatment of individuals as  protected persons under the conventions. That's because human shields are, by definition, people used to shield military targets. And the "attacking party" is often described as the "impeded party", because they are prohibited from attacking under those circumstances. The exceptions listed are usually narrowly constrained, but it is clear that there needs to be a specific military advantage gained that fits with the concept of  Proportionality (law). Dropping a bomb on a neighborhood of civilians to kill an individual Hamas leader when no attack from that location is in progress is a very obvious example of a violation of the Human Shield law. There is no enemy military action being stopped, and there is no proportionality. Your reading of the Geneva Conventions on this subject renders them utterly meaningless. However, if you think I've misread the Geneva Convention, then point me to something that supports your interpretation.

Protected persons are not to be targeted. That doesn't mean you can't hit a target where they are.

And your "very obvious example" isn't.

When IDF spokespersons claim that they are doing everything they can to protect civilian lives, I can only roll my eyes. They are doing everything they can to rationalize and justify killing anyone who gets in the way of a suspected military target. They think that dropping leaflets to tell everyone to skedaddle somehow exonerates their depraved indifference to the lives of civilian Palestinians, including men, women, children. Anyone.

On the scale they are currently operating there's not a lot they can do to avoid casualties amongst the human shields.

That's not in dispute. What is in dispute is whether that is a scale that is morally or legally justifiable. Bombing neighborhoods is not the only way for Israel to eliminate Hamas, and the military worth of doing so is highly questionable. It looks more like a genocidal tactic than a military one--a tactic more designed to implement ethnic cleansing that stopping a military attack.

Just because you can't see the value doesn't mean it's not there.

...
But what it seems you are saying here is that there is no compelling reason NOT to kill civilians if the reason is to hit Hamas, and that is what compels IDF targeting priorities. The attacking forces don't need to exercise any restraint, because all those people should have paid attention to the leaflets and fled, even if fleeing was impossible or pointless (because Israel is bombing designated safe areas on account of the IDF thinking they harbor Hamas facilities).

The attacking force should not use force beyond what is necessary to accomplish it's military objective. Drop the smallest bomb that will destroy the target. Use guided weapons to reduce the misses. It's not required not to pull the trigger.

You have a very broad concept of "military objective". Basically, it seems that you think killing any member of Hamas is a military objective, even if they are not actually engaged in a military action. That is essentially treating assassination as a military objective, even if it kills what would be considered "protected persons" under international law. For example, if someone thought to be a Hamas official is at a funeral, it is ok to drop a bomb on all the mourners just to kill that one official. Your only sense of restraint is that it should be the "smallest bomb."

I don't think Israel cares about the average Hamas member unless they're currently attacking. Israel is dropping on commanders.

And note that even Hamas reports show less than one death (including of Hamas) per strike. Killing civilians wholesale?

As for the ambulance, we don't know the details but there's no reason Palestinian ambulances should get special treatment. Not only has Israel repeatedly caught them smuggling but the Red Crescent (equivalent of the Red Cross) refuses to condemn such misuse. This forfeits the protections that would normally be associated with an ambulance.

So, again, human shields, human shmields. Wherever there are a lot of civilians, Hamas must be using them as human shields, so bomb the hell out of everything, no matter how densely populated with people from all walks of life. You can't be so clueless as to be surprised that people are now calling Israel out for committing genocide. The Biden administration is already feeling intense heat to change its support for Israel, but the Netanyahu government doesn't care. They prefer Donald Trump over Joe Biden anyway, so no big deal if Biden gets raked over the coals politically for his support of Israel.

People keep claiming Israel is committing genocide--yet the Palestinian population is growing. I find the claims of genocide laughable.

Yes, the population is growing, but it takes years to grow a person, and that does not justify killing them before they become old enough to fight. So I wouldn't laugh too hard at the charge, if I were you. Ethnic cleansing is considered a type of genocide, and Israel has already offered to cancel Egypt's debt if it is willing to take the Gaza population out of the Gaza Strip.

You're still not showing genocide.

They did take the gloves off this time, that's all. The destruction pattern seems to line up with known tunnels but we haven't seen any images from close enough up to see if that's what's actually happening. Hamas probably learned from previous incidents where their pictures were enough to show that the bombs had collapsed tunnels and now avoids any photography that would show the truth.

Hamas knew what would happen when they launched their massacre, why are you not blaming them for the expected result?

Oh, I do blame Hamas for its massacre, but I also blame Israel for its massacre. You are the one who seems to think that Hamas should be responsible for what Israel decided to do, and I don't think you have the slightest idea of what Hamas "knew" or thought would happen. My guess is that they were totally deluded in their expectations, but I don't claim to know what was in their minds.

Hamas knew what the response would be, they chose the path, they chose the result.

...

I think that Laughing Dog made the right point about this already. Israel is using bombs on densely populated areas of Gaza (as most areas are in the Gaza Strip). It claims that it is going after military targets, but that is no excuse to blame the victims, who may not be aware that they are in an area Israel is about to strike. Nor is it clear that Israel actually has what the US likes to call "actionable intelligence" when going after a specific military figure, such as the alleged Hamas leader that was being targeted in the densely populated Jabalya camp neighborhood. The last IDF spokesman I saw who was trying to justify the strike admitted that they weren't sure that they had actually killed the target. Of course, we have pictures of the injured children and adults that they did kill.

Well, duh, how would they be expected to be certain they got their target??

They could interpret all of the dead and injured children as evidence that they killed that one Hamas official in the Jabalya neighborhood. However, the IDF spokesperson admitted that they didn't know if they got him. So I don't think that even the IDF is as confident as you are that they are certain they got their target.

How could they know?

And note that the pictures are often not true. They've even been caught doing a sloppy job with AI creating victim pictures.

Sure. Both sides put out fake pictures online these days. However, it is absurd to think that they are all or even mostly faked.

It's Hamas putting out the imagery. And most of it is simply posed, not fake.

Those human shields serve more purposes than protecting Hamas leadership and their military assets. They also provide the basis for lies about who made the choices here.

No, they don't. Both sides are making choices. Both sides can choose not to kill civilians or use them as hostages or shields. Israel can choose to refrain from using bombs to go after suspected Hamas target. Ground operations would make more sense, but, of course, those would be more risky to the lives of Israeli soldiers.

The problem is you aren't giving Israel any option to protect itself. Are you another that wants them to die?

What are you talking about? Israel is not about to be destroyed by Hamas. Gaza City is literally surrounded, and the ghetto has been cut in half by the IDF, according to their most recent announcement. Why do you think that Hamas poses a serious threat to Israel? October 7 was a sneak attack that worked because the Netanyahu government did not take warnings seriously.

In other words, Jews don't matter. Israel should simply absorb losses and not try to prevent them. You sound a lot like a domestic abuser.

Which is the Islamist powers. From Hamas to Iran to Qatar, the list is long.

And it includes Israel.

Israel is an Islamist power?!

No. You need to look at the antecedent of Tom's relative pronoun "which" to get what he was referring to--those who were actually making choices. All I said here was that Israel was in the list of those making choices, not just the "Islamist powers".

Look what you did, you made me hit you!

There's plenty of blame to spread around here, it goes back over a century. But pretending that Hamas using Gazan children as human shields is evidence that Israel is the ethical problem is ridiculous. No. It's Hamas.
Tom

Israel is using Hamas as an excuse for deliberately targeting areas where it knows children are living, and that is a clear violation of international law.

I suggest actually looking at what the law says, not what the propaganda says it says.

There is no rule against targeting a location known to have children. The rule is not "don't target civilians", the rule is "only target military". It's just Hamas puts it's military stuff all through civilian areas so when it's hit civilians die.

But you yourself have come close to making explicit the assumption that every crowded area is harboring military facilities, so everything is a military target. And that is the problem. You assume that the IDF has actionable intelligence, but it sounds a lot more like actionable suspicions, where those doing the suspecting are primed to suspect the worst. Every Palestinian looks like a terrorist.

You assume they don't.

Given that it seems to be running about 2 dead (assuming you believe Hamas and their numbers are usually way high) per bomb it's pretty clear Israel is targeting things. Likely the tunnels.

Bombs that target suspected tunnels above crowded neighborhoods are not the same as targeting actual known military installations. If Israel wants to go after those targets, it needs to go down into the tunnels or blow them up after making sure that the civilian population above them is moved away first. Leaflets that lie to them about safe havens in the south are no excuse to treat civilians like terrorists. The Geneva Conventions do not give a green light to kill civilians because there might be Hamas personnel among them. There still needs to be some actual military action to require a military response.

Tunnels are military installations!

UNRWA got sloppy:


They're complaining about an Israeli attack on a school. See any blast damage in either shot? No, what you see in both shots is damage caused by ground collapse--the bomb fell elsewhere and a tunnel caved in. A military tunnel under the school.

And by now we are down to less than one dead per attack. Amazing how you can drop on "civilians" and not kill anyone!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

UPenn student celebrating the 10/7 massacre at the purportedly "pro-Palestine", but really pro-Hamas protest.



May she be identified and never get hired by anyone.

Where was the glorification of rape, slaughter, torture, and kidnapping? It wasn't in that video.

Of course she isn't going to mention them directly! She is most clearly praising the massacre. This is a 100db dog whistle.

 

[steve_bank]

Well there it is, Netanyahu says Gaza will be occupied indefinitely. Make Gaza safe for colonization?

The feckless Biden talks as if anyone in the region actually gives a shit what he says. Israel, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.

Biden is an embarrassment.

From a report there is opposition to Biden;s unconditional support and weak criticisms.

I listened to an interview with a representative from the IDF. What is came down to is ff Israel needs to blow up an ambulance caravan to kill someone from Hamas so be it.

When questioned about casualties in Gaza city he said people were given adequate notice to get out and go south. When questioned about bombing in the south after trying avoid the question said 'it is a war zone'.

In the VN war there were 'free fire zones', anything that moved could be attacked form the air.

Free-Fire Zones

Free-fire zones were places pounded with artillery or annihilated with napalm and bombs in an effort to drive out the enemy. American soldiers were authorized to shoot at anything that moved. Large…

charliecompany.org

Free-fire zones were places pounded with artillery or annihilated with napalm and bombs in an effort to drive out the enemy. American soldiers were authorized to shoot at anything that moved. Large swaths of the Mekong Delta, believed to be dominated by the Viet Cong, were declared free-fire zones. Some places were described as “Wild Wes-like shooting galleries.”

Villagers in free-fire zones were encouraged to move to “strategic hamlets,” but often they didn’t want to because their families had lived in their home villages for generations and they were afraid of losing them. If the staid they could be regarded as “target of opportunity” and fired upon.

Palestinians in the south in interviews have said they were going back home, they'd rather die at home.

I think if Israel at this point wants peace it will have to eradicate as many Palestinians as they can and control the rest with brutally. Young Palestinians today will grow up with a bitter hated for Israel and Jews in general.


From a bio there is evidence Netanyahu mt have known of the assassination plot against Rabin by a nationalist but did nothing. Netanyahu being an extreme nationalist. It is not unthinkable Netanyahu intentionally dismissed intelligence of the attack.

The IDF rep said they know when they kill a Hamas by intercepting communications. Gaza is a very small place. That Israel with its renowned intelligence service would have missed a buildup and pending attack is suspicious.

 

[Arctish]

Well then, where is the glorification of rape, slaughter, torture, and kidnapping the chyron says the video contains?

It's all part of the 10/7 terrorist attack this chick finds "glorious".

It is often claimed to be antisemitism, and the evidence of antisemitism is just as often completely absent.

If Israel is treated differently than every other country, by for example denying Israel the right to defend itself, then it is antisemitism.

Not if the people treating Israel differently are Zionist apologists.

There is usually very little disagreement about the evils of ethnic cleansing, genocide, and the theft of land and resources by armed aggressors unless we're talking about those things being done by Israelis in Palestine.

And there is usually little disagreement about the right of people to defend themselves from armed aggressors unless we're talking about Palestinian people facing Zionists aggressors.

If you don't want Israel to be treated differently then don't employ special pleading when Israelis carry out pogroms like Cossacks or enforce apartheid like their Afrikaner role models.

No country would tolerate 1,400 of its citizens being slaughtered by a terrorist group. On a percentage basis, more Israelis were murdered in 10/7 than Americans on 9/11.

Do you have examples of people denying Israel the right to self defense?

There were calls for a "ceasefire" immediately after the terrorist attack. That is denying Israel the right to defend itself.

Or do you only have examples of people saying Israel has no right to kill indiscriminately or to continue expanding and to force Palestinians out of their homes and into reservations?

What "reservations"? Israel left Gaza in 2005, if you don't remember. Gaza had a choice before it. They chose terrorism, rather than peace.

And what did Israel choose when it abandoned the Olso Accords?

Heck, what did Israel choose from the moment it was created? What did its founders choose in the decades before 1948?

We are not bound by the choices our predecessors made, we just have to clean up their messes. The choices people made 2-3 generations ago are not a justification for attacking their grandchildren today.

Hamas has said it accepts the 1967 borders. Do you?

That's bullshit.
Leading Hamas official says no softened stance toward Israel

If not, where do you think Israel's borders should be?

They should be determined with negotiations. Like the negotiations Arafat broke off in 2000.
I do not think an armistice like from 1949 should necessarily be the final borders.

There already was negotiation. Israel and the PA agreed on the 1967 borders with some land swaps to be negotiated later.

Do you think Israel should honor that agreement)?

 

[Arctish]

UPenn student celebrating the 10/7 massacre at the purportedly "pro-Palestine", but really pro-Hamas protest.



May she be identified and never get hired by anyone.

Where was the glorification of rape, slaughter, torture, and kidnapping? It wasn't in that video.

Of course she isn't going to mention them directly! She is most clearly praising the massacre. This is a 100db dog whistle.

She is most clearly exhorting people to remember the feeling of success when an IDF Jeep was captured and the barrier around Gaza was breached.

She may have said more, and it may have been explicit glorification of rape, slaughter, torture, and kidnapping like the chyron said. But if she did, I wonder why Mr. Torres didn't put that part in his post.

 

[Arctish]

Israel abandoning the Oslo Accords damaged what trust existed at the time the Accords were signed. Israel promoting a man who claimed to have deliberately sabotaged the Oslo Accords to the position of Prime Minister destroyed what little trust remained.

Israel abandoned them after Palestine abandoned them.

I'm not going to bother with the rest of your post because it's just your usual home made bullshit but ^this part^ is an outright falsehood.

The Oslo Accords outlined a series of steps to be made by both Israel and the PA within a set time frame. So unlike your nebulous claims about Ehud Barak's offer, we can look at the actual agreed-upon actions to be undertaken by both parties and we can see when and how the process ground to a halt.

Here is a quick overview. The hand over of territory stopped when Rabin was assassinated, the process briefly resumed under Peres, but then it completely stopped when Netanyahu and the rightwingers took control.

Israel abandoned the Oslo Accords.

History doesn't go away just because you ignore it. And it won't change, either.

 

[laughing dog]

[

Of course she isn't going to mention them directly! She is most clearly praising the massacre. This is a 100db dog whistle.

What is the dog whistle tonnage for the praise for IDF civilians deaths?

 

[repoman]

This is a good video with reciepts about from the Zionists own writings.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

UPenn student celebrating the 10/7 massacre at the purportedly "pro-Palestine", but really pro-Hamas protest.



May she be identified and never get hired by anyone.

Where was the glorification of rape, slaughter, torture, and kidnapping? It wasn't in that video.

Of course she isn't going to mention them directly!

Okay, where did she indirectly praise the slaughter in Israel? Specific quotes please, or shut the fuck up about dog whistles.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This destruction spawns terrorists of different stripes.

No. Money spawns terrorism. No money, no terrorism even when the treatment is atrocious. Enough money brings terrorism even when the situation isn't that bad.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Do you have examples of people denying Israel the right to self defense? Or do you only have examples of people saying Israel has no right to kill indiscriminately or to continue expanding and to force Palestinians out of their homes and into reservations?

Look in the mirror. You are denying Israel's right to self defense with rules of engagement that are impossible to follow.

As for their "indiscriminate" attacks:

Halevi said to tell Blinken that Gaza casualties would be higher if Israel followed US advice

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

Israel says following US doctrine would increase civilian deaths.

When they ignore hundreds of thousands of dead Syrians because they were killed by their fellow Arabs, but call 10k dead Gazans "genocide", that is antisemitism.

Interestingly, he supports the Two State solution. It appears he thinks Israel is wrong for continuing to oppress and rob Palestinians but objects to anyone saying Israel oppresses and robs Palestinians.

I support the 2 state solution too. You know who doesn't? Hamas.

Hamas has said it accepts the 1967 borders. Do you?

If not, where do you think Israel's borders should be?

Continuing to repeat this doesn't make it so.

Hamas has never accepted the 67 borders. The PLO has accepted the 67 borders with right of return--which is a complete non-starter and they know it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The choices and actions of the IDF is the direct cause.

Hamas started this war. Just like Nazi Germany started WWII.

What is your obsession with Nazi Germany?

Because it's a continuation of the same thing--an attempt to exterminate the Jews.

Hamas has openly admitted to the same objective as Hitler: exterminate Jews worldwide. It's just they aren't as capable of doing so.

This destruction spawns terrorists of different stripes.

Maybe eventually Palestinians will realize that terrorism is getting them nowhere.

Why would you think they are faster learners than the leaders of Israel and their cheerleaders?

Israel is faced with shoot or die. Palestine is not.

Israel should change it's flag to a porcupine because they're just like one. You leave them alone, they leave you alone. You mess with them, you get hurt.

 

[ZiprHead]

This destruction spawns terrorists of different stripes.

No. Money spawns terrorism. No money, no terrorism even when the treatment is atrocious. Enough money brings terrorism even when the situation isn't that bad.

What is your solution to the money issue?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Hamas is committing war crimes by placing their militant infrastructure inside or underneath civilian infrastructure. How do you propose to get to Hamas otherwise?

WATCH: IDF provides proof of Hamas rockets launched near schools, mosque

Watching the video and looking at the pictures, I did not see any rocket launchers. I saw little red squares that the IDF said were launcher sites. Fair enough. I have no reason to doubt that the IDF is telling the truth and that Hamas terrorists are using those sites as a way of giving pause to the IDF before it attempts to take out their launcher with a missile. It is a fact that the Gaza Strip is one of the most densely populated ethnic ghettoes in the world and that terrorists aren't particularly concerned about protecting the lives of innocent people. Blowing up a school is a war crime, so that is also helpful propaganda for their cause. In fact, many of the launchers are from the backs of trucks, so they can be moved away quickly after a launch.

So you accept that Hamas is committing war crimes and yet you're protecting them.

And you still don't seem to understand that when it's used for military purpose it becomes a valid target no matter what the structure's supposed purpose. Geneva says that the other side should warn about such misuse before hitting such targets but that is not meaningful in this sort of conflict. Israel has repeated pointed out examples of the misuse and they continue to do so. Geneva was about addressing mistakes, not about deliberate conduct.

What should Israel do about it? For the most part, these rockets are being stopped by Iron Dome, although not all of them can be. They don't do widespread damage in Israel, but they do terrify the population. I don't think that there is an easy, quick solution, because blowing up a large area where a missile launcher may or may not still be present is going to cause a lot of deaths of innocent people, and the IDF needs to refrain from killing large numbers of innocent people just to take out a single rocket launcher. So the solution needs to be proportionate to the danger posed by that launcher and the likelihood of actually destroying it with a missile strike.

Why do Palestinian deaths matter but Jewish deaths don't matter?

I have no military experience, so I am not the best person to advise on how to solve the problem, but the US did fight this kind of urban warfare in Iraq. The solution there, as I understand it, did not involve the use of missiles fired into densely populated areas. Aerial attacks were done with drones and helicopters that could take out the targets without necessarily destroying the surrounding neighborhood, and they also used a lot of ground operations. Israel may not have the same capability, and, unlike with US troops, its home territory is under attack. Still, it seems to me that Israel prefers to use sledgehammers to kill flies rather than fly swatters, and they justify it by simply failing to acknowledge the difference between innocent civilians and Hamas terrorists.

And the IDF says our tactics result in more civilian casualties than theirs do. And history bears this out--the IDF has the best track record in the world in this regard despite decades of fighting opponents that use human shields.

The US has killed a lot of innocent civilians in its wars, but it does have a record of at least trying to show some respect for distinguishing civilians from combatants. When US troops began a massacre of the civilian population of My Lai during the Vietnam War, they committed unthinkable atrocities that amounted to a genocidal attack on that village. Still, it was other US troops--a helicopter crew--that stopped the massacre and helped the civilian survivors. The US government made a show of trying to bring the people responsible for the massacre to justice and failed miserably at that. However, the Vietnamese government still memorializes those Americans who came to the aid of the victims, and the ones who stopped the violence were the heroes, not those who started it.

Pot, kettle.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Israel does not support terrorism.

Do you actually believe that the Palestinian population of the Gaza Strip has not been terrified by Israeli bomb strikes and the cutoff of food, water, power, and medical supplies?

Terrorism is a crime of intent.

And the humanitarian crisis is purely on Hamas. Hamas wants the people to suffer so useful idiots will call on Israel to stop shooting. The hospitals have been almost out of fuel for weeks now. Hamas always brings more before the generators actually stop.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Do you actually believe that the Palestinian population of the Gaza Strip has not been terrified by Israeli bomb strikes and the cutoff of food, water, power, and medical supplies?

That's not terrorism. That's war.
Yes, war is hell. But let's not lose track of who started this war, or how.

You cannot have it both ways. If Hamas started the war, then it was no more terrorism than what Israel does in the name of war.

Moreover, you appear to be saying that since Israel is the victim, it has carte blanche - a truly ridiculous position.

It is both war and terrorism. Hamas waddles and quacks, it's a nation, it can declare war. However, it did so by massacring civilians and taking hostages. That's Nuremburg level behavior.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Do you actually believe that the Palestinian population of the Gaza Strip has not been terrified by Israeli bomb strikes and the cutoff of food, water, power, and medical supplies?

That's not terrorism. That's war.
Yes, war is hell. But let's not lose track of who started this war, or how.

You cannot have it both ways. If Hamas started the war, then it was no more terrorism than what Israel does in the name of war.

Moreover, you appear to be saying that since Israel is the victim, it has carte blanche - a truly ridiculous position.

It is both war and terrorism. Hamas waddles and quacks, it's a nation, it can declare war. However, it did so by massacring civilians and taking hostages. That's Nuremburg level behavior.

It doesn't even rise to what happened in Rwanda. So enough of Nuremberg and needless hyperbole. What Hamas did in October was nothing short of an atrocity.

But they aren't a nation state. They are a bizarre convergence of gang warlords, insurgency, terrorists. You can't wage war against them because they lack government leadership, borders, or international recognition as a nation state that allows for war like outcomes.

 

[steve_bank]

People sill willfully ignore the roots of groups like Hamas in the founding of is real and treatment of Palestinians. Seizure of land and displacement to make way for Israeli colonists.

The problem is we rarely have seen reporting from the Palestinian on what it like under Israeli occupation like we do from Israel when there is a violent incident.

Israel waged a decides long propaganda campaign to paint Palestinians as terrorist and Israel as innocent victims. Criticize Israel and you must hate Jews.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

.

Again, what do you think Israel should do? What would be your plan if you were the prime minister of Israel? Would you not respond to the 10/7 massacre at all? Or what would you do?

Well, obviously, I'd

1. Turn everyone's water off

90% of the water comes from within Gaza. Whether the pumps get fuel is up to Hamas.

1. Tell everyone to flee south and then bomb the south

They appear to be blasting the tunnels in the north. That doesn't mean Hamas has free reign to operate in the south.

1. Tell people to go to Egypt and then bomb the crossing to Egypt

Once again, military trumps civilian. Hamas tried to smuggle it's wounded out.

1. Bomb a refugee camp and multiple hospitals

"Refugee camp", yes--that's where the guy was. Blame him.

Hospitals--we have one hospital hit by an IJ misfire.

1. Kill 10,000 people, mostly civilians

We have no breakdown of civilian vs combatant. Hamas doesn't do that sort of breakdown and it takes a long time for Israel to sort it all out.

1. Bomb the tunnels where the hostages are

There is no realistic way Israel can rescue the hostages. Trading for them is also unrealistic. Thus the only strategy to get them back is to make Hamas cry uncle--and you don't even seem to consider that an option.

On the other hand, maybe Israel could reduce some of these things. We should consider that for a moment. Hmmm... naw, fuck it. Israel should also send a nuke to Gaza.

Yeehah!!

That's just a stupid politician.