Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Jimmy Higgins]

This destruction spawns terrorists of different stripes.

Maybe eventually Palestinians will realize that terrorism is getting them nowhere.

Why would you think they are faster learners than the leaders of Israel and their cheerleaders?

Israel is faced with shoot or die. Palestine is not.

Israel should change it's flag to a porcupine because they're just like one. You leave them alone, they leave you alone. You mess with them, you get hurt.

That seems to be a terribly oversimplified position. It isn't like Gaza wasn't locked in a cage. That doesn't count as being "left alone".

Do you support the permanent relocation of Gazans into a smaller area further south and closer to Egypt?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah, Israel caused the Fatah/Hamas civil war. Since it wasn't paraded before the world press there was no reason for human shields. Nor was it conducted with heavy weapons. Thus it was quite good at killing combatants and sparing innocents.

The terror would happen anyway as it's determined by the money and weapons being provided, not by the name of the group that gets the stuff. It goes to whoever will cause the most trouble with it, the name is irrelevant.

How glibly you slide over reality to defend your biases. Without Israel’s support, it is debatable whether Hamas would have been as successful and that Gaza would have abandoned by Israel.

The notion that the outcome is identical regardless of the actors is lunacy. Is everything alright?

The actors: Israel, Iran. They're the same in all cases.

What the organization that takes Iranian money and weapons and uses them to attack Israel is called varies between scenarios but is of little importance.

History is decided by people not money. People are not identical - even terrorists. So your response is based on an obviously false view of human behavior.

Individuals vary, but when looking at large populations things are pretty consistent.

Throw propaganda to recruit. Throw money to arm. Why has there never been a substantial terrorist movement without outside funding? (Admittedly, FARC was self-funded with drug money, but that's a lack of an outside sponsor, not a lack of outside money.)

 

[laughing dog]

Do you actually believe that the Palestinian population of the Gaza Strip has not been terrified by Israeli bomb strikes and the cutoff of food, water, power, and medical supplies?

That's not terrorism. That's war.
Yes, war is hell. But let's not lose track of who started this war, or how.

You cannot have it both ways. If Hamas started the war, then it was no more terrorism than what Israel does in the name of war.

Moreover, you appear to be saying that since Israel is the victim, it has carte blanche - a truly ridiculous position.

It is both war and terrorism. Hamas waddles and quacks, it's a nation, it can declare war. However, it did so by massacring civilians and taking hostages. That's Nuremburg level behavior.

If it is okay for Israel to massacre civilians during war, it is okay for Hamas to do so. You really cannot have it both ways.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I care far more about the side that didn't choose war than the side that chose war crimes.

Both sides chose war.

Both sides are choosing war crimes.

Both sides chose war? No, Israel chose to not sit there and be slaughtered.

By engaging in war or are you saying Israel is responding with terrorism?

Can you ever actually address the matter rather than find something to nitpick?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Palestinians in the south in interviews have said they were going back home, they'd rather die at home.

It's like reality TV. Scripted.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well then, where is the glorification of rape, slaughter, torture, and kidnapping the chyron says the video contains?

It's all part of the 10/7 terrorist attack this chick finds "glorious".

It is often claimed to be antisemitism, and the evidence of antisemitism is just as often completely absent.

If Israel is treated differently than every other country, by for example denying Israel the right to defend itself, then it is antisemitism.

Not if the people treating Israel differently are Zionist apologists.

There is usually very little disagreement about the evils of ethnic cleansing, genocide, and the theft of land and resources by armed aggressors unless we're talking about those things being done by Israelis in Palestine.

And there is usually little disagreement about the right of people to defend themselves from armed aggressors unless we're talking about Palestinian people facing Zionists aggressors.

Cart, horse. You have it exactly backwards.

There already was negotiation. Israel and the PA agreed on the 1967 borders with some land swaps to be negotiated later.

Do you think Israel should honor that agreement)?

Are you talking about the offer with the poison pill?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

UPenn student celebrating the 10/7 massacre at the purportedly "pro-Palestine", but really pro-Hamas protest.



May she be identified and never get hired by anyone.

Where was the glorification of rape, slaughter, torture, and kidnapping? It wasn't in that video.

Of course she isn't going to mention them directly! She is most clearly praising the massacre. This is a 100db dog whistle.

She is most clearly exhorting people to remember the feeling of success when an IDF Jeep was captured and the barrier around Gaza was breached.

She may have said more, and it may have been explicit glorification of rape, slaughter, torture, and kidnapping like the chyron said. But if she did, I wonder why Mr. Torres didn't put that part in his post.

What part of dog whistle do you not understand?

She phrased it such that those who wish to be blind can ignore it, but the meaning is obvious.

 

[ZiprHead]

Why do Palestinian deaths matter but Jewish deaths don't matter?

Who said this???

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Israel abandoning the Oslo Accords damaged what trust existed at the time the Accords were signed. Israel promoting a man who claimed to have deliberately sabotaged the Oslo Accords to the position of Prime Minister destroyed what little trust remained.

Israel abandoned them after Palestine abandoned them.

I'm not going to bother with the rest of your post because it's just your usual home made bullshit but ^this part^ is an outright falsehood.

The Oslo Accords outlined a series of steps to be made by both Israel and the PA within a set time frame. So unlike your nebulous claims about Ehud Barak's offer, we can look at the actual agreed-upon actions to be undertaken by both parties and we can see when and how the process ground to a halt.

Here is a quick overview. The hand over of territory stopped when Rabin was assassinated, the process briefly resumed under Peres, but then it completely stopped when Netanyahu and the rightwingers took control.

Israel abandoned the Oslo Accords.

History doesn't go away just because you ignore it. And it won't change, either.

The Palestinians never complied in the first place.

Palestinian Compliance with the Oslo Accords: A Legal Overview

Some of the central legal issues concerning validity, accountability, and compliance with the Accords. - Palestinian Compliance with the Oslo Accords: A Legal Overview

jcpa.org

U.S. to Arafat: Comply with Oslo Agreements or Lose Aid

Terrorism has shattered the prospects for Israeli_Palestinian peace once again. Bombings on July 30 in Jerusalem killed 13 Israelis and two Arab suicide bombers, and dealt a mortal blow to the already ailing peace talks that began in Oslo in 1993. Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat has violated...

www.heritage.org

I've seen a more detailed breakdown of Palestinian non-compliance but I'm not finding it right now.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This destruction spawns terrorists of different stripes.

No. Money spawns terrorism. No money, no terrorism even when the treatment is atrocious. Enough money brings terrorism even when the situation isn't that bad.

What is your solution to the money issue?

I don't have one, although it would help if we quit trying to make a false peace with Iran.

Don't fall into the have-to-do-something trap. Just about everything done because something must be done ends up being the wrong thing.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It is both war and terrorism. Hamas waddles and quacks, it's a nation, it can declare war. However, it did so by massacring civilians and taking hostages. That's Nuremburg level behavior.

It doesn't even rise to what happened in Rwanda. So enough of Nuremberg and needless hyperbole. What Hamas did in October was nothing short of an atrocity.

But they aren't a nation state. They are a bizarre convergence of gang warlords, insurgency, terrorists. You can't wage war against them because they lack government leadership, borders, or international recognition as a nation state that allows for war like outcomes.

What's Rwanda got to do with it? Besides, look at Rwanda more carefully--while it started as ethnic most of the violence looks more like individuals removing enemies or roadblocks in order to improve their own position. There wasn't really a central point of blame for most of it.

On a waddle and quack basis Hamas is the government of Gaza. They act as a government and they have de-facto borders. The lack of international recognition only makes them not formally a nation.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This destruction spawns terrorists of different stripes.

Maybe eventually Palestinians will realize that terrorism is getting them nowhere.

Why would you think they are faster learners than the leaders of Israel and their cheerleaders?

Israel is faced with shoot or die. Palestine is not.

Israel should change it's flag to a porcupine because they're just like one. You leave them alone, they leave you alone. You mess with them, you get hurt.

That seems to be a terribly oversimplified position. It isn't like Gaza wasn't locked in a cage. That doesn't count as being "left alone".

They weren't locked in a cage, they also had a border with Israel. It's just Egypt hates them about as much as Israel does.

Do you support the permanent relocation of Gazans into a smaller area further south and closer to Egypt?

No, and I see no indication that that's what's intended. Rather, I see Israel saying to get out of the way while we bomb the tunnels. Then they'll flip and have the people come north while they destroy the tunnels in the south.

And I see Hamas sitting there shooting people who try to get out of the way.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Do you actually believe that the Palestinian population of the Gaza Strip has not been terrified by Israeli bomb strikes and the cutoff of food, water, power, and medical supplies?

That's not terrorism. That's war.
Yes, war is hell. But let's not lose track of who started this war, or how.

You cannot have it both ways. If Hamas started the war, then it was no more terrorism than what Israel does in the name of war.

Moreover, you appear to be saying that since Israel is the victim, it has carte blanche - a truly ridiculous position.

It is both war and terrorism. Hamas waddles and quacks, it's a nation, it can declare war. However, it did so by massacring civilians and taking hostages. That's Nuremburg level behavior.

If it is okay for Israel to massacre civilians during war, it is okay for Hamas to do so. You really cannot have it both ways.

You still fail to comprehend the concept of a target.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why do Palestinian deaths matter but Jewish deaths don't matter?

Who said this???

Indirectly, multiple people on here.

10/7 won't kill Israel, thus Israel isn't justified in shooting back in a fashion that can harm civilians.

But when the shoe is on the other foot the civilian deaths matter.

 

[laughing dog]

I care far more about the side that didn't choose war than the side that chose war crimes.

Both sides chose war.

Both sides are choosing war crimes.

Both sides chose war? No, Israel chose to not sit there and be slaughtered.

By engaging in war or are you saying Israel is responding with terrorism?

Can you ever actually address the matter rather than find something to nitpick?

That is your standard evasion whenever someone hits the point on the head. Either Israel's choice to not sit there and be slaughtered was to declare war or to engage in terrorism. You still have yet to answer the question. Which is truly revealing.

 

[laughing dog]

Why do Palestinian deaths matter but Jewish deaths don't matter?

Who said this???

Indirectly, multiple people on here.

10/7 won't kill Israel, thus Israel isn't justified in shooting back in a fashion that can harm civilians.

But when the shoe is on the other foot the civilian deaths matter.

My parents brought me up that bad behavior on the part of others did not justify bad behavior on my part.

Let me make this clear. Killing civilians is wrong. Doesn't matter who does the killing nor does it matter who the victims are.

Unlike you, there are those who believe it doesn't matter if you think the cause is just or legal. It is still wrong.

So you can shove that "Israeli deaths don't matter" back up the orifice from which it originated.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is both war and terrorism. Hamas waddles and quacks, it's a nation, it can declare war. However, it did so by massacring civilians and taking hostages. That's Nuremburg level behavior.

It doesn't even rise to what happened in Rwanda. So enough of Nuremberg and needless hyperbole. What Hamas did in October was nothing short of an atrocity.

But they aren't a nation state. They are a bizarre convergence of gang warlords, insurgency, terrorists. You can't wage war against them because they lack government leadership, borders, or international recognition as a nation state that allows for war like outcomes.

What's Rwanda got to do with it? Besides, look at Rwanda more carefully--while it started as ethnic most of the violence looks more like individuals removing enemies or roadblocks in order to improve their own position. There wasn't really a central point of blame for most of it.

On a waddle and quack basis Hamas is the government of Gaza. They act as a government and they have de-facto borders. The lack of international recognition only makes them not formally a nation.

Hamas are as legit government as a bunch of warlords are.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Why do Palestinian deaths matter but Jewish deaths don't matter?

Who said this???

Indirectly, multiple people on here.

10/7 won't kill Israel, thus Israel isn't justified in shooting back in a fashion that can harm civilians.

WTF?! That post should be labeled a fire hazard, it is so stuffed with strawmen.

But when the shoe is on the other foot the civilian deaths matter.

That is just a pile of crap. There is only one member here who'd feel that way about Israeli deaths. So cut that shit out. There is an ability to feeling terrible grief for the losses on October 7th without handing a blank check to a fucking idiotic dumbass wannabe dictator who dropped the ball so badly on Israeli defense that over 1000 Israelis were slaughtered and hundred more kidnapped while he was busy trying to centralize power in Israel.

 

[ZiprHead]

Why do Palestinian deaths matter but Jewish deaths don't matter?

Who said this???

Indirectly, multiple people on here.

10/7 won't kill Israel, thus Israel isn't justified in shooting back in a fashion that can harm civilians.

But when the shoe is on the other foot the civilian deaths matter.

Post numbers please.

 

[Copernicus]

Do you actually believe that the Palestinian population of the Gaza Strip has not been terrified by Israeli bomb strikes and the cutoff of food, water, power, and medical supplies?

That's not terrorism. That's war.
Yes, war is hell. But let's not lose track of who started this war, or how.

Any unlawful use of violence to terrify a civilian population is terrorism. Israel's denial of basic humanitarian needs and attacks on densely populated neighborhoods are acts intended to terrorize civilians, not just Hamas. But, in the eyes of some defenders of Israel, anything Israel targets is ipso facto a military target and therefore not limited by the Geneva Conventions. So human shields become nothing more than big targets painted on military assets that need to be destroyed. Your cliché "War is hell" expression is often used to excuse barbaric acts against an enemy, but it doesn't actually excuse barbaric behavior.

Israel does not support terrorism.

Do you actually believe that the Palestinian population of the Gaza Strip has not been terrified by Israeli bomb strikes and the cutoff of food, water, power, and medical supplies?

Terrorism is a crime of intent.

So Israel's denials of humanitarian needs to Palestinians trapped in Gaza and their targeting of locations prohibited under international law are unintentional? Good to know.

And the humanitarian crisis is purely on Hamas. Hamas wants the people to suffer so useful idiots will call on Israel to stop shooting. The hospitals have been almost out of fuel for weeks now. Hamas always brings more before the generators actually stop.

Right. Israel is doing exactly what Hamas wants. You admit that here. Those who call on Israel to stop doing what Hamas wants are not the useful idiots. It is those who call on Israel to continue doing what Hamas wants.