Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Derec]

I get it - you believe you are reading between the lines. But the space between those lines are open to other reasonable interpretations. 4

Ability to integrate information and not just absorb the most superficial layer is crucial to reading comprehension.
I think you are giving them a lot of benefit of the doubt - something you would not do for example for tweets made by Young Republicans or Columbia Students for Trump.

From I can tell from the content of the poster, it appears to me to imply that the terrorism is necessary to fight "imperialism" (whatever that has to do with Gaza, I don't know).

You also have to consider the text of the tweet above the poster. But thanks for at least agreeing with me that they support Hamas terrorism.
And socialists and communists have a long history of throwing the "imperialist" moniker at those who are not. That and "fascist". They are fond of that one too.
That's also part of integrating information - use prior knowledge to interpret a statement in its own milieu. "Born again" has a meaning within the Evangelical framework (or "Christianese"), but may confuse outsiders. And when pro-Palestinian activists talk about "Resistance", they mean terrorism, esp. Hamas (aka "Islamic Resistance Movement").

It does appear as if the teach in will involve justifying or excusing Hamas's terrorism, but that does not make it a "celebration".

I guess that's a manner of opinion.

 

[TomC]

A "teach in" where they defend Hamas actions as justified, you mean?

Perhaps if you didn't add words like "celebration" and "defend". What it says is "significance" and "discussion".
I'd probably find it pretty odious myself. But, here on IIDB, you're misrepresenting it based on a poster intended to attract interest.
Tom

 

[Derec]

The people hosting the event might believe that terrorism is necessary,

The vile people hosting the event most certainly do, as they are defending the 10/7 terrorism.

or they might believe that rioting, toppling statues, burning down government buildings, and barricading neighborhoods to prevent entry by the police

That only works in the US or Europe where penalties for such behavior are lax, at least when the rioters are leftists. Compare the penalties received by #BLM arsonists and 1/6 rioters who put their feet up on a desk.
2 plead guilty in fire at Atlanta Wendy’s restaurant during protest after Rayshard Brooks killing
No prison time, no restitution. Just some community service and a symbolic fine (relative to damage caused). Fanni Willis is a partisan hack! Basing justice on political affiliation is slouching toward becoming a banana republic!

would suffice but terrorism is predictable when less violent forms of protest don't bring about the desired results.

So do all groups get to engage in terrorism if they do not get their way? Are you fine with anti-gay activists blowing up gay bars if mere rioting and arson "don't bring about the desired results" of banning gay marriage and gay sex? Or just those you and other leftists approve of such as #BLMers and Hamas? If you defend terrorism for some, others that you do not agree with will follow.

Then, in order to save face, they deceitfully declared that they had wanted to exit peacefully but had to wait for a willing partner in peace to show up.

Devastation from WWII played a big role in the collapse of the English Empire in general and the British Raj in particular. And while Gandhi gets a lot of good press, he had many negative attributes too. Not a matter for this thread though.

I see the same pattern in how Israel has been ignoring Abbas and imprisoning the leaders of peaceful demonstrations.

What leaders of "peaceful demonstrations" are being arrested? Israel has been raiding places like Jenin and Shechem (colonial name "Nablus") to arrest (and if necessary eliminate) members of terrorist groups like Al Aqsa Martyr Brigades (Fatah), Al Quds Brigades (Islamic Jihad) or Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades (Hamas). In the last few years a trend has emerged that young terrorists join together across factional lines to form regional cells such as "Den of Lions" in Shechem and Jenin Brigades.

Arctish, do you consider this guy a "leader of peaceful demonstrations"?

That's one Ibrahim Al Nablusi, aka "Lion of Nablus", who was dispatched to his 72 Virgins in August 2022.

4 But he who is joined with all the living has hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

I expect that someday, Israel will 'discover' a Palestinian leader who wants peace and will act like that's a new development.

It is more of an issue of finding one acceptable to the Palestinians. Even the so-called moderate "partner for peace" Abbas has a terrorist past and is funding and tacitly supporting terrorism while president.
And for such a leader to emerge, attitudes of the Palestinian people must change.

 

[Derec]

A "teach in" where they defend Hamas actions as justified, you mean?

Perhaps if you didn't add words like "celebration" and "defend". What it says is "significance" and "discussion".
I'd probably find it pretty odious myself. But, here on IIDB, you're misrepresenting it based on a poster intended to attract interest.
Tom

They also wrote "centrality of revolutionary violence to anti-imperialism".

 

[laughing dog]

Ability to integrate information and not just absorb the most superficial layer is crucial to reading comprehension.
I think you are giving them a lot of benefit of the doubt - something you would not do for example for tweets made by Young Republicans or Columbia Students for Trump.

“Integrating Information” is now an euphemism for kneejerk projection of one’s bias?

Trust me - I don’t knowingly comment on tweets.

 

[bilby]

These creeps are on the side of the Hamas

But your evidence for this is your interpretation of their poster; And your intepretation is based on your belief that

These creeps are on the side of the Hamas

 

[Derec]

But your evidence for this is your interpretation of their poster; And your intepretation is based on your belief that

These creeps are on the side of the Hamas

Well they are. They call the Hamas massacre "revolutionary violence" that they maintain is central to "anti-imperialism".
You allege circular reasoning, but yours is twisting yourself into logic pretzels to give this group benefit of the doubt they do not deserve.

 

[Arctish]

The people hosting the event might believe that terrorism is necessary,

The vile people hosting the event most certainly do, as they are defending the 10/7 terrorism.

Have you done any research on that group and the types of events they host, or are you projecting?

The poster invites people to a discussion. That might be a cover for a sales pitch, or it might be an invitation to a series of short speeches with a question and answer period between speakers. I don't know which and I suspect neither do you.

or they might believe that rioting, toppling statues, burning down government buildings, and barricading neighborhoods to prevent entry by the police

That only works in the US or Europe where penalties for such behavior are lax, at least when the rioters are leftists. Compare the penalties received by #BLM arsonists and 1/6 rioters who put their feet up on a desk.
2 plead guilty in fire at Atlanta Wendy’s restaurant during protest after Rayshard Brooks killing
No prison time, no restitution. Just some community service and a symbolic fine (relative to damage caused). Fanni Willis is a partisan hack! Basing justice on political affiliation is slouching toward becoming a banana republic!

would suffice but terrorism is predictable when less violent forms of protest don't bring about the desired results.

So do all groups get to engage in terrorism if they do not get their way?

Are you implying that if someone thinks terrorism is predictable they must therefore believe it is acceptable?

Let's try this analogy:

IMO, a handful of so-called 'pro-life' activists perpetrating acts of terrorism to prevent women from getting abortions is predictable. My saying so doesn't mean I approve of it, only that I expect it will happen.

Now, it might be that I think the kind of person who would kill people for the 'pro-life' cause is a self-sacrificing defender of the defenseless and I admire them. Or it might be I think they're violent, fatuous fuckwits and I hope they fall into spontaneous comas. You'll never know which if you don't at least try to understand what I'm saying.

Similarly, you'll never know what the people hosting that event feel about terrorism if you simply assume they want to celebrate the violence and deaths that happened in Israel in October. They might be full of shit. They might pay lip service to wanting a peaceful resolution. Or they might believe that things will only get worse if no progress is made to address the issues fueling the fighting and they sincerely want to prevent worse outcomes.

Are you fine with anti-gay activists blowing up gay bars if mere rioting and arson "don't bring about the desired results" of banning gay marriage and gay sex? Or just those you and other leftists approve of such as #BLMers and Hamas? If you defend terrorism for some, others that you do not agree with will follow.

Then, in order to save face, they deceitfully declared that they had wanted to exit peacefully but had to wait for a willing partner in peace to show up.

Devastation from WWII played a big role in the collapse of the English Empire in general and the British Raj in particular. And while Gandhi gets a lot of good press, he had many negative attributes too. Not a matter for this thread though.

I see the same pattern in how Israel has been ignoring Abbas and imprisoning the leaders of peaceful demonstrations.

What leaders of "peaceful demonstrations" are being arrested? Israel has been raiding places like Jenin and Shechem (colonial name "Nablus") to arrest (and if necessary eliminate) members of terrorist groups like Al Aqsa Martyr Brigades (Fatah), Al Quds Brigades (Islamic Jihad) or Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades (Hamas). In the last few years a trend has emerged that young terrorists join together across factional lines to form regional cells such as "Den of Lions" in Shechem and Jenin Brigades.

We've discussed this. More than once.

Do you really need me to search the archives to remind you?

Arctish, do you consider this guy a "leader of peaceful demonstrations"?

That's one Ibrahim Al Nablusi, aka "Lion of Nablus", who was dispatched to his 72 Virgins in August 2022.

Never heard of him until just now.

Did you ever hear about Joseph Vladimirovich Trumpledor, aka "Lion of Judah"? That guy was a badass. He was the leader of a militia, too, albeit a small one.

I don't think anyone nicknamed 'the Lion' of something in Israel or Palestine is likely to be a peacemaker.

4 But he who is joined with all the living has hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

I expect that someday, Israel will 'discover' a Palestinian leader who wants peace and will act like that's a new development.

It is more of an issue of finding one acceptable to the Palestinians. Even the so-called moderate "partner for peace" Abbas has a terrorist past and is funding and tacitly supporting terrorism while president.
And for such a leader to emerge, attitudes of the Palestinian people must change.

For such a leader to be successful, attitudes of the Zionist Israelis must change. For starters, they need to not kill the Prime Minister of Israel who negotiates a peace treaty with him and the people he represents.

Admitting that Abbas has committed the PA to seeking a diplomatic solution would be helpful as well.

 

[Derec]

Another innocent, misunderstood Hamas Palestine supporter.
FBI releases identity of suspect in Temple Israel shots fired incident

The 28-year old suspect who allegedly fired two shotgun rounds at a Jewish temple in Albany has been identified as Mufid Fawaz Alkhader. [...]According to Albany Police Chief Eric Hawkins, the suspect allegedly fired on the front steps of the Temple Israel at 1:56 p.m. Thursday before running away. He said police responded to the scene a minute after the shots were heard.
[...]Hawkins said that responding officers and the witness heard the man say ‘free Palestine’ around the time he was being taken into custody. Investigators are looking at this act of violence as a hate crime. Police believe he acted alone.

 

[steve_bank]

I always tried to see both sides on Israel and Palestinians.

Not that it maters in the grand cosmic scheme of things, I can no longer support Israel or military aid to Israel.

The Israeli propaganda is nauseating, especially commercials. I can no 5achNetayahu speak. The same with our secretary of state and Biden.

Over here statements are being interpreted promoting genocide of Jews and Israel, yet that is what Israel is doing to Gaza. The pictures of decaying infant babies in a hospital.

Gaza is becoming an apocalyptic waste land. Palestinians not killed directly will die from disease and starvation.

Tunnels may be flooded. We are looking at the kind of contempt Nazis had for not just Jews but any individual or group labeled inferior, or an enemy or threat to the state.

The Israeli brutality, is it a reflection of the true nature o Israeli culture? I am beginning to think so.

Israel is shooting at fish in a barrel.

 

[TV and credit cards]

And once again because we're right and everybody else is wrong, the US blocked a UN Security Council demand for a humanitarian ceasefire. Thirteen yeses. One no. And one abstention by the UK. Who's a good boy.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I always tried to see both sides on Israel and Palestinians.

Not that it maters in the grand cosmic scheme of things, I can no longer support Israel or military aid to Israel.

The Israeli propaganda is nauseating, especially commercials. I can no 5achNetayahu speak. The same with our secretary of state and Biden.

Over here statements are being interpreted promoting genocide of Jews and Israel, yet that is what Israel is doing to Gaza. The pictures of decaying infant babies in a hospital.

Gaza is becoming an apocalyptic waste land. Palestinians not killed directly will die from disease and starvation.

Tunnels may be flooded. We are looking at the kind of contempt Nazis had for not just Jews but any individual or group labeled inferior, or an enemy or threat to the state.

The Israeli brutality, is it a reflection of the true nature o Israeli culture? I am beginning to think so.

Israel is shooting at fish in a barrel.

Seattle buddy! You have been traditionally neutral in this conflict!? It's going to be over in a couple weeks. And then we'll find out who really wants peace in the area.

 

[TV and credit cards]

The State Department approves the sale of tank ammunition to Israel in a deal that bypasses Congress

Going around Congress, the Biden administration says it's approved the emergency sale to Israel of nearly 14,000 rounds of tank ammunition worth more than $106 million as Israel intensifies its military operations in the southern Gaza Strip.

apnews.com

“The United States is committed to the security of Israel, and it is vital to U.S. national interests to assist Israel to develop and maintain a strong and ready self-defense capability. This proposed sale is consistent with those objectives,”

Horseshit.

 

[TomC]

The State Department approves the sale of tank ammunition to Israel in a deal that bypasses Congress

Going around Congress, the Biden administration says it's approved the emergency sale to Israel of nearly 14,000 rounds of tank ammunition worth more than $106 million as Israel intensifies its military operations in the southern Gaza Strip.

apnews.com

“The United States is committed to the security of Israel, and it is vital to U.S. national interests to assist Israel to develop and maintain a strong and ready self-defense capability. This proposed sale is consistent with those objectives,”

Horseshit.

I honestly don't think it is.

I think that the decades of U.S. support for Israel is based on our military security, sorta.

I don't think that the U.S. government has ever been at all invested democracy or "doing the right thing for those poor oppressed Jews". But Israel's continued existence and dependence on U.S. gives a reliable beachhead within striking distance of the Gulf Oil Region.

So while AIPAC money and stuff are important, the main thing is military control of petroleum reserves.
Tom

 

[Harry Bosch]

The State Department approves the sale of tank ammunition to Israel in a deal that bypasses Congress

Going around Congress, the Biden administration says it's approved the emergency sale to Israel of nearly 14,000 rounds of tank ammunition worth more than $106 million as Israel intensifies its military operations in the southern Gaza Strip.

apnews.com

“The United States is committed to the security of Israel, and it is vital to U.S. national interests to assist Israel to develop and maintain a strong and ready self-defense capability. This proposed sale is consistent with those objectives,”

Horseshit.

I honestly don't think it is.

I think that the decades of U.S. support for Israel is based on our military security, sorta.

I don't think that the U.S. government has ever been at all invested democracy or "doing the right thing for those poor oppressed Jews". But Israel's continued existence and dependence on U.S. gives a reliable beachhead within striking distance of the Gulf Oil Region.

So while AIPAC money and stuff are important, the main thing is military control of petroleum reserves.
Tom

We're also trying to stop the war from spreading to the other gulf states. I'd also not fancy Hamas getting Israel's nukes.

 

[Derec]

Horseshit.

Islamic fundamentalism is a thread to all Western World. Remember that the theocratic usurper regime in Tehran sees Israel as the "Little Satan", but sees US as the "Big Satan".

 

[Derec]

“Integrating Information” is now an euphemism for kneejerk projection of one’s bias?

Wrong again. Trying for a record? Should I call Guinness?

Trust me - I don’t knowingly comment on tweets.

The text of the tweet is as much a message by the organizers of this teach in Hamas propaganda event as the text of the poster. To limit yourself to the latter is missing context.

By the way, the event went on even though Columbia tried to cancel it. Here is a writeup about it.
Columbia students hold canceled ‘teach-in’ to publicly praise Hamas’s Oct. 7 atrocities

Hiding their faces behind umbrellas, balaclavas and surgical masks, several students crowded into the lobby of the Columbia University’s School of Social Work on December 6, praising and justifying Hamas’s October 7 massacre in Israel.
[...]
There, students spent the better part of an hour defending the terror onslaught — in which Hamas gunmen mutilated, raped, burned, and murdered 1,200 people in a rampage through southern Israel, over 1,000 of them civilians, and seized 240 hostages — as a justified response to policies of the Israeli government, Jewish students who attended the event told The Times of Israel.
[...]
“On October 7, the Palestinian liberation fighters demonstrated their refusal to be dominated. They showed the world that the Palestinian people will fight for freedom instead of quietly adapting to subjugation,” said a student speaking at the event.
“They showed us that with creativity, determination, and combined strength the masses can accomplish great feats, a fact we have seen in every heroic struggle for liberation from Vietnam to Afghanistan. As Mao says, ‘Dare to struggle, dare to win,’” she said.

Still think that they are not pro-Hamas?
They also seem to be commies (quoting Mao as an authority). Far leftists supporting islamofascism has a long history, sadly.

 

[Derec]

And once again because we're right and everybody else is wrong, the US blocked a UN Security Council demand for a humanitarian ceasefire. Thirteen yeses. One no. And one abstention by the UK. Who's a good boy.

No, this vote was not about a temporary "humanitarian pause" like the one that ended a week ago because Hamas breached it.
It's a demand for a "permanent" ceasefire with no conditions placed on Hamas, such as to release all hostages.
Of course, "permanent" only means "until Hamas regroups and rearms enough to attack Israel again". There was a ceasefire on 10/7 before Hamas brutally attacked Israel after all. And Hamas has said clearly they indent to attack Israel over and over again.
Hamas official vows to repeat Israel attacks ‘again and again’ until it’s destroyed

 

[Derec]

I always tried to see both sides on Israel and Palestinians.

And that's your first problem. Pretending that there is some moral equivalence between Israel and the Palestinian terrorists.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose ...

Not that it maters in the grand cosmic scheme of things, I can no longer support Israel or military aid to Israel.

Luckily, it doesn't.

The Israeli propaganda is nauseating, especially commercials. I can no 5achNetayahu speak. The same with our secretary of state and Biden.

Palestinian propaganda is what's nauseating. Especially Pallywood. Check out Mr. FAFO. Btw, I saw him in the wild. I was watching war clips, and there was a clip of a bombing in Hamad Town, outside Khan Younis, and who should be in frame? None other than Mr. FAFO, wailing and gnashing teeth, no doubt gunning for Pallywood version of Oscars (should they be called Osamas?).

Over here statements are being interpreted promoting genocide of Jews and Israel,

Because they are. How would you interpret these statements if not as genocidal?

yet that is what Israel is doing to Gaza. The pictures of decaying infant babies in a hospital.

That's not "genocide". That's just war. A war that Hamas started, if I have to remind you.
2 million German civilians died in WWII according to this.

That's almost 4% of the German population at the time.

Do you think they had adequate food supplies in 1945? Medical care? Do you not think there were dead and decaying babies in Germany as the Third Reich was collapsing around them? Was that "genocide"? Do you yell "FDR, you cannot hide, we charge you with genocide!"? Or does that only apply when Jews dare defend themselves instead of meekly allowing to be genocided by islamofascists?
That's what irks me about these discussions. Israel is held to a different standard than any other country.

Gaza is becoming an apocalyptic waste land. Palestinians not killed directly will die from disease and starvation.

Disease and deprivation stalk Gaza like ... two giant stalking things. Apologies to Edmund Blackadder.
But whose fault is that? Who started the war? Just like Nazi Germany started WWII, so Hamas-ruled Gaza started this one.

Tunnels may be flooded. We are looking at the kind of contempt Nazis had for not just Jews but any individual or group labeled inferior, or an enemy or threat to the state.

Tunnels are for exclusive use by Hamas and other terror groups. They have no civilian use. Hamas made that clear.
Tunnels built to protect our fighters, not civilians: Hamas official
One side in this conflict is like the Nazis, but it sure isn't Israel. It's Hamas.

The Israeli brutality, is it a reflection of the true nature o Israeli culture? I am beginning to think so.

It's a reflection of realities of war. As General William "Tecumseh" Sherman said, "war is hell".

Israel is shooting at fish in a barrel.

More like shooting extremely dangerous fish that are hiding among and under other, ordinary, fish that it is not trying to shoot. But these fish that it is targeting are so dangerous, there is no other choice. 10/7 proved that.

 

[laughing dog]

“Integrating Information” is now an euphemism for kneejerk projection of one’s bias?

Wrong again. Trying for a record? Should I call Guinness?

Trust me - I don’t knowingly comment on tweets.

The text of the tweet is as much a message by the organizers of this teach in Hamas propaganda event as the text of the poster. To limit yourself to the latter is missing context.

By the way, the event went on even though Columbia tried to cancel it. Here is a writeup about it.
Columbia students hold canceled ‘teach-in’ to publicly praise Hamas’s Oct. 7 atrocities

Hiding their faces behind umbrellas, balaclavas and surgical masks, several students crowded into the lobby of the Columbia University’s School of Social Work on December 6, praising and justifying Hamas’s October 7 massacre in Israel.
[...]
There, students spent the better part of an hour defending the terror onslaught — in which Hamas gunmen mutilated, raped, burned, and murdered 1,200 people in a rampage through southern Israel, over 1,000 of them civilians, and seized 240 hostages — as a justified response to policies of the Israeli government, Jewish students who attended the event told The Times of Israel.
[...]
“On October 7, the Palestinian liberation fighters demonstrated their refusal to be dominated. They showed the world that the Palestinian people will fight for freedom instead of quietly adapting to subjugation,” said a student speaking at the event.
“They showed us that with creativity, determination, and combined strength the masses can accomplish great feats, a fact we have seen in every heroic struggle for liberation from Vietnam to Afghanistan. As Mao says, ‘Dare to struggle, dare to win,’” she said.

Still think that they are not pro-Hamas?
They also seem to be commies (quoting Mao as an authority). Far leftists supporting islamofascism has a long history, sadly.

“Integrating inormation”
bias induced reading comprehension failure. I only disputed your mischaterizatiin of “ celebration”.

I noticed the write up is based on 2nd information.

Finally, I view tweets as by or for twits.