<Hits Gospel over the head with a newspaper-by-4>
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
By comparison to the paradise it was under apartheid?
You are equivocating between being anti-zionist and being called anti-zionist. Equivocation is a fallacy.Nope, all you have to do is be critical of Jewish Settlements in the West Bank and Gaza to be called anti-zionist. The Ehuds, as you call them, definitely qualify. Therefore they are now anti-semites.Are you claiming that the two Ehuds support abolishing the State of Israel? Because that's what the ideology of anti-Zionism entails. Not mere criticism of a government or of certain policies.
House Declares Anti-Zionism Is Antisemitism, Dividing Democrats
More than half of House Democrats declined to back the Republican-written resolution, as some argued that equating criticism of the state of Israel with hatred of the Jewish people went too far.www.nytimes.com
Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert are now anti-semites now, apparently.
Israel has been labeled an apartheid state about a million and a half times since Oct. 7. If, in this complex world with multiple motivations, there isn't a single reason that motivates everyone (in parallel with their other additional idiosyncratic motivations), then you should have no trouble quoting one of them who included in his apartheid accusation a forthright stipulation that what Hamas did on Oct. 7 was a crime against humanity.
I think this is true and it what Israel is ding.
Sometimes things seem the darkest just when they are about to turn. There is no peace possible as long as Hamas is in power. It also probably isn't possible as long as the Israeli far right is in power. I do think that Netanyahu's coalition is going to fall as a result of their unbelievable lapses leading up to this attack. I think that things will look better in a year or so.
And that's your first problem. Pretending that there is some moral equivalence between Israel and the Palestinian terrorists.
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose ...
Luckily, it doesn't.
Palestinian propaganda is what's nauseating. Especially Pallywood. Check out Mr. FAFO. Btw, I saw him in the wild. I was watching war clips, and there was a clip of a bombing in Hamad Town, outside Khan Younis, and who should be in frame? None other than Mr. FAFO, wailing and gnashing teeth, no doubt gunning for Pallywood version of Oscars (should they be called Osamas?).
Because they are. How would you interpret these statements if not as genocidal?
That's not "genocide". That's just war. A war that Hamas started, if I have to remind you.
2 million German civilians died in WWII according to this.
View attachment 44868
That's almost 4% of the German population at the time.
Do you think they had adequate food supplies in 1945? Medical care? Do you not think there were dead and decaying babies in Germany as the Third Reich was collapsing around them? Was that "genocide"? Do you yell "FDR, you cannot hide, we charge you with genocide!"? Or does that only apply when Jews dare defend themselves instead of meekly allowing to be genocided by islamofascists?
That's what irks me about these discussions. Israel is held to a different standard than any other country.
Disease and deprivation stalk Gaza like ... two giant stalking things. Apologies to Edmund Blackadder.
But whose fault is that? Who started the war? Just like Nazi Germany started WWII, so Hamas-ruled Gaza started this one.
Tunnels are for exclusive use by Hamas and other terror groups. They have no civilian use. Hamas made that clear.
Tunnels built to protect our fighters, not civilians: Hamas official
One side in this conflict is like the Nazis, but it sure isn't Israel. It's Hamas.
It's a reflection of realities of war. As General William "Tecumseh" Sherman said, "war is hell".
More like shooting extremely dangerous fish that are hiding among and under other, ordinary, fish that it is not trying to shoot. But these fish that it is targeting are so dangerous, there is no other choice. 10/7 proved that.
Saying “Israel is an apartheid state” is a description (valid or not) which is unrelated to any atrocity perpetrated by Hamas. So I find your challenge to be inane.Israel has been labeled an apartheid state about a million and a half times since Oct. 7. If, in this complex world with multiple motivations, there isn't a single reason that motivates everyone (in parallel with their other additional idiosyncratic motivations), then you should have no trouble quoting one of them who included in his apartheid accusation a forthright stipulation that what Hamas did on Oct. 7 was a crime against humanity.
Israel has been labeled an apartheid state about a million and a half times since Oct. 7. If, in this complex world with multiple motivations, there isn't a single reason that motivates everyone (in parallel with their other additional idiosyncratic motivations), then you should have no trouble quoting one of them who included in his apartheid accusation a forthright stipulation that what Hamas did on Oct. 7 was a crime against humanity.
I don't think it's idiotic or whataboutism to point out that the current disaster is a combination of Islamists like Hamas both turning Gaza into a densely populated military installation and then attacking Israel.
No one said it was.
Will it? I doubt that very much. It would be a mistake for the West (US and EU mostly) to take in 2.4M of a population incompatible with Western values and ways of life. And nobody else is foolish enough to take them in, least of all their fellow Arabs. Egypt has dealt with Gazans from 1948-1967. They do not want any part of it.
Yes, war is hell. Let's not forget who started this war, however, and how.
About 2.4M actually, according to latest estimates. It was <400k when Israel took over in 1967. They are having a ridiculous number of children leading to exponential population growth, which in turn leads to things like overdrawing the coastal aquifer causing encroachment of seawater into it). All that because they want to use demographics as a weapon against Israel.
I quoted you. It's right there.
As details come out about all the weapons and the incredibly extensive cave structures under Gaza, I wonder what heck kind of embargo Israel put on Gaza for all these years.
This is a complex history that cannot be summed up with a one-sided statement like this.
In other words, he demands Israel to be destroyed. How is that different from Russia wanting to get rid of Ukraine? And launching an ill-advised war to achieve that goal?Star said:
One reason is historical. "West Bank" is really Judea and Samaria, the hill country that Hebrew people first emerged in as a distinct people around the 10th century BCE, long before any Arabs settled there. It contains cities (like Hebron, where King David is from, and the northern worship center of Shechem among others). The area of the British Mandate, or "Mandatory Palestine", contained trans-Jordan (now the "Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan") as well, and it would have been more logical to use the Jordan river as a divider between the Jewish Palestine and Arab Palestine rather than the convoluted borders of the UN partition plan or the somewhat less convoluted 1949 Armistice Line.
That is true. Before the British Mandate, the area was controlled by the Ottomans who owned most of the land. Most Jewish settlers bought the land fair and square from the previous owners. And as to "lived on for centuries", that is bullshit. Just like there was Jewish migration into the cis-Jordan area in the 20th century, so there was Arab immigration as well. Even Fathi Hamad, the most honest and outspoken among Hamas leaders admits that much.
That is somewhat correct, given the use of "Palestinian" to refer to a national and ethnic identity. "Palestinian" used to merely be a toponym, rather than a demonym or an ethnonym. That's why you had the pro-Zionist newspaper called "Palestine Post" (now Jerusalem Post) for example.
This is more akin to claims by Palestinians that there was no Jewish Temple and other nonsense.
And Arabs have a lot of political influence in most other countries. They also benefit from antisemitism and anti-Americanism endemic in many cultures. There is a lot of pro-Palestinian propaganda out there, and you seem to have fallen victim to all of it.
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There has been Jewish settlement into areas of what is called "West Bank", yes, but how is it "ethnic cleansing"? The Arab population is not being forcibly shipped elsewhere (across the Jordan for example) , and is in any case increasing exponentially, so how is it "cleansing"?
This is the problem when you allow unfettered immigration of religious extremists to your country.
I suggest you read post 1668 and 1669 in this thread.
Educate yourself - Google "Settler violence in the west bank 2023" and check out some links. Or read West Bank Settler violence or
I didn't say it must be included in the same statement; people who say it can freely choose to include or not include whatever they please. But people's choices are evidence of their psychology. Someone including it in the same statement is what it would take to provide empirical evidence for ld's contention. Likewise, it must not be included in the same statement in order for the accusation to serve its apparent intended purpose, which is to propagate the misrepresentation that the relation of the Israelis to the Palestinians is the same as the relation of the Afrikaaners to the black South Africans -- i.e., a one-way oppressor-oppressed relation -- as opposed to the two-way mutual-oppression relation the Israelis and Palestinians in fact have with each other. Every time yet another person makes the accusation without the stipulation, it adds more empirical evidence to the already overflowing pile in favor of the hypothesis that the intended purpose is exactly what it appears to be.Israel has been labeled an apartheid state about a million and a half times since Oct. 7. If, in this complex world with multiple motivations, there isn't a single reason that motivates everyone (in parallel with their other additional idiosyncratic motivations), then you should have no trouble quoting one of them who included in his apartheid accusation a forthright stipulation that what Hamas did on Oct. 7 was a crime against humanity.
"quoting one of them who included in his apartheid accusation a forthright stipulation that what Hamas did on Oct. 7 was a crime against humanity"
Why must it be included in the same statement?
Yeah, all those poor Israelis who aren't permited to leave Tel Aviv, and whose water, electricity, and food supplies are occasionally cut off by the Palestinians, must be truly miserable about the oppressive regime they're struggling under.
