Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Harry Bosch]

Joe Biden is, yet again, allowing himself to be dragged to the left by the fringes of his party.
Biden urges Israel ‘to just call for’ 6-8 week ceasefire, slams PM’s handling of Gaza war

Biden wants Israel to impose a unilateral ceasefire on themselves, with no hostages being released or other concessions by Hamas. However, White House staff later walked back the demand.
In the meantime, Hamas says they do not even have 40 hostages they are willing to release.
Hamas says it does not have 40 Israeli hostages to trade in cease-fire deal
Even though they are holding some 100 hostages or so (133 officially, but many of those have probably died while being held hostage). That's because they are unwilling to release any non-elderly men.

Biden is no doubt trying to appease the "Death to America" Dearbornistan crowd because he needs Michigan so bad come November.
At Michigan Quds Day rally, protesters chant ‘Death to Israel’ and ‘Death to America’
Biden is selling his soul for electoral votes.

Very much agree. A politician should ignore the “fringe” 77 percent that want a cease fire now. Biden such a silly duck for even considering the opinion of such a small part of the electorate!!!

 

[laughing dog]

Joe Biden is, yet again, allowing himself to be dragged to the left by the fringes of his party.
Biden urges Israel ‘to just call for’ 6-8 week ceasefire, slams PM’s handling of Gaza war

Biden wants Israel to impose a unilateral ceasefire on themselves, with no hostages being released or other concessions by Hamas. However, White House staff later walked back the demand.
In the meantime, Hamas says they do not even have 40 hostages they are willing to release.
Hamas says it does not have 40 Israeli hostages to trade in cease-fire deal
Even though they are holding some 100 hostages or so (133 officially, but many of those have probably died while being held hostage). That's because they are unwilling to release any non-elderly men.

Biden is no doubt trying to appease the "Death to America" Dearbornistan crowd because he needs Michigan so bad come November.
At Michigan Quds Day rally, protesters chant ‘Death to Israel’ and ‘Death to America’
Biden is selling his soul for electoral votes.

It is telling that the idea he is also concerned about the humanitarian crisis is absent from your complaints.

 

[Derec]

It is telling that the idea he is also concerned about the humanitarian crisis is absent from your complaints.

There is a lot of short-term thinking re the humanitarian crisis. The quicker IDF is allowed into Rafah, the quicker the war will end, with all the suffering that comes from war. And if Israel is pressured into a "permanent" ceasefire without defeating Hamas, Hamas will just attack again as soon as they regroup and resupply (from their Big Daddy in Tehran). They have said so unequivocally.

That means that Israel will have to defend itself again, with more suffering for both sides. Better to end it quickly, then for it to fester endlessly.

Biden understood the necessity of defeating Hamas in October 2023. He has forgotten that in his desire to appease Rashida Tlaib's ilk.

 

[Derec]

Very much agree. A politician should ignore the “fringe” 77 percent that want a cease fire now. Biden such a silly duck for even considering the opinion of such a small part of the electorate!!!

You do know full well that responses to polls like this strongly depend on how the question is asked. What does a "ceasefire" mean? A temporary ceasefire with release of hostages? Or pressuring Israel into a unilateral "permanent" (i.e. until the next attack from Gaza) ceasefire? There is a very wide gulf between these two ideas of a "ceasefire now".
This is the Michigan fringe I am talking about:


By the way, several politicians have condemned it, but Rashida Tlaib and, somewhat surprisingly, Gretchen Whitmer, have not.
White House condemns 'Death to America' chants in Michigan, Rep. Rashida Tlaib and Gov. Gretchen Whitmer mum

 

[TomC]

Biden understood the necessity of defeating Hamas in October 2023. He has forgotten that in his desire to appease Rashida Tlaib's ilk.

I don't think Biden forgot.

He's old and experienced in international politics and realpolitik. He knew (and Netanyahu knew) that Biden had to say some stuff to placate the low information voters he needs to prevent Donald Trump from winning the next election.
Netanyahu is no noob either.

But both know that nothing Biden says will particularly impact US support for right wingers in Israel, like Likud. The US military-industrial complex plus AIPAC plus Christian Zionists will make sure that US policies won't even inconvenience Likud in any important way.

But sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Right now, Biden needs to say what will placate the low information lefties who are fine with Gazan violence.
Which is lot's of them.

Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

There is a lot of short-term thinking re the humanitarian crisis. The quicker IDF is allowed into Rafah, the quicker the war will end, with all the suffering that comes from war. And if Israel is pressured into a "permanent" ceasefire without defeating Hamas, Hamas will just attack again as soon as they regroup and resupply (from their Big Daddy in Tehran). They have said so unequivocally.

What specifically does defeat mean in this situation to you?

And that you think the philosophy can be defeated is kind of astounding.

 

[TomC]

What specifically does defeat mean in this situation to you?

Render violent theocratic terrorists unable to rebuild their military power and launch more attacks.

And that you think the philosophy can be defeated is kind of astounding.

I don't think it can. The best Israel can do to reduce the threat of Palestinian violence is to pulverize places like Gaza.

They cannot destroy the wish and goal of Islamic genocide against them. They can only destroy the ability to keep doing it.
Gazans could choose differently, but as most of their supporters keep pointing out, they won't.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

What specifically does defeat mean in this situation to you?

Render violent theocratic terrorists unable to rebuild their military power and launch more attacks.

And that you think the philosophy can be defeated is kind of astounding.

I don't think it can. The best Israel can do to reduce the threat of Palestinian violence is to pulverize places like Gaza.

They cannot destroy the wish and goal of Islamic genocide against them. They can only destroy the ability to keep doing it.
Gazans could choose differently, but as most of their supporters keep pointing out, they won't.
Tom

Since that support comes from outside Gaza, how exactly is that supposed to work?

 

[TomC]

Since that support comes from outside Gaza, how exactly is that supposed to work?

That looks like a big problem for Israeli security.

Maybe pulverize Gaza?
So far, they've been quite restrained. But that could change if it becomes clear that anything else will be ineffective, I suppose.

Another possibility is to lean hard on the outside forces, notably Iran and Qatar.
Too bad Trump and the Teaparty destroyed any semblance of influence the USA might have on Iran. But that's done and over with.

But as long as the Palestinians don't want to get rid of leadership like Hamas, enough to get it done, the best bet Israel has is destroying the ability to launch military attacks like Oct 7.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

It is telling that the idea he is also concerned about the humanitarian crisis is absent from your complaints.

There is a lot of short-term thinking re the humanitarian crisis. The quicker IDF is allowed into Rafah, the quicker the war will end, with all the suffering that comes from war.

. There is a lot of unrealistic jingoism in your response. There is no defeating Hamas - the survivors will regroup and easily recruit more willingly fighters. This massacre postpones the next terrorist attack. It does not deter anything. It simply makes the recruitment of more terrorists easier.

The suffering from war does not end when the war ends. It endures. It should be apparent to anyone who pays the least bit of attention to history in that area of the world that forgiveness is a rare commodity. The ability and willingness to forgive by all sides is the key to real peace.

 

[laughing dog]

But as long as the Palestinians don't want to get rid of leadership like Hamas, enough to get it done, the best bet Israel has is destroying the ability to launch military attacks like Oct 7.

What on earth makes you think “the Palestinians “ don’t want to get rid of leadership like Hamas?

 

[ZiprHead]

But as long as the Palestinians don't want to get rid of leadership like Hamas, enough to get it done, the best bet Israel has is destroying the ability to launch military attacks like Oct 7.

You act like they have a choice in the matter.

 

[Shadowy Man]

But as long as the Palestinians don't want to get rid of leadership like Hamas, enough to get it done, the best bet Israel has is destroying the ability to launch military attacks like Oct 7.

What on earth makes you think “the Palestinians “ don’t want to get rid of leadership like Hamas?

Clearly if a people don’t rise up en masse against their oppressors then they must want to be oppressed. Isn’t that how it works?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Joe Biden is, yet again, allowing himself to be dragged to the left by the fringes of his party.
Biden urges Israel ‘to just call for’ 6-8 week ceasefire, slams PM’s handling of Gaza war

Biden wants Israel to impose a unilateral ceasefire on themselves, with no hostages being released or other concessions by Hamas. However, White House staff later walked back the demand.
In the meantime, Hamas says they do not even have 40 hostages they are willing to release.
Hamas says it does not have 40 Israeli hostages to trade in cease-fire deal
Even though they are holding some 100 hostages or so (133 officially, but many of those have probably died while being held hostage). That's because they are unwilling to release any non-elderly men.

Biden is no doubt trying to appease the "Death to America" Dearbornistan crowd because he needs Michigan so bad come November.
At Michigan Quds Day rally, protesters chant ‘Death to Israel’ and ‘Death to America’
Biden is selling his soul for electoral votes.

Very much agree. A politician should ignore the “fringe” 77 percent that want a cease fire now. Biden such a silly duck for even considering the opinion of such a small part of the electorate!!!

I hate the term ceasefire as it isn't really applicable here. We have a siege. The siege must end, Israel can continue going after Hamas all they want. Hamas deserves no refuge.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Since that support comes from outside Gaza, how exactly is that supposed to work?

That looks like a big problem for Israeli security.

Maybe pulverize Gaza?
So far, they've been quite restrained. But that could change if it becomes clear that anything else will be ineffective, I suppose.

Well restrained in the sense of their actions have been legally questionable. Pulverizing Gaza would be a war crime. As one might notice, the Gazans are all in the refugee areas, not waging a war.

But as long as the Palestinians don't want to get rid of leadership like Hamas, enough to get it done, the best bet Israel has is destroying the ability to launch military attacks like Oct 7.

To be clear, Hamas doesn't evaporate into nothing if they no longer run the Government of Gaza (if one could say they ever really did). Hamas was a threat to Israel before they won the protest election. They'd be a threat after if they no longer "run" the show.

 

[repoman]

Are all government workers, from janitors to police, in Gaza "Hamas" in the Israeli government mind?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What specifically does defeat mean in this situation to you?

Render violent theocratic terrorists unable to rebuild their military power and launch more attacks.

And that you think the philosophy can be defeated is kind of astounding.

I don't think it can. The best Israel can do to reduce the threat of Palestinian violence is to pulverize places like Gaza.

They cannot destroy the wish and goal of Islamic genocide against them. They can only destroy the ability to keep doing it.
Gazans could choose differently, but as most of their supporters keep pointing out, they won't.
Tom

Since that support comes from outside Gaza, how exactly is that supposed to work?

I do agree they do not have a meaningful choice about what happens. That doesn't mean that Israel is under any obligation to avoid hitting them, any more than any country is obligated to not hit military targets because there are nearby civilians. Should you refuse to fight a conscript army?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It is telling that the idea he is also concerned about the humanitarian crisis is absent from your complaints.

There is a lot of short-term thinking re the humanitarian crisis. The quicker IDF is allowed into Rafah, the quicker the war will end, with all the suffering that comes from war.

. There is a lot of unrealistic jingoism in your response. There is no defeating Hamas - the survivors will regroup and easily recruit more willingly fighters. This massacre postpones the next terrorist attack. It does not deter anything. It simply makes the recruitment of more terrorists easier.

But recruiting isn't the limiting factor.

The suffering from war does not end when the war ends. It endures. It should be apparent to anyone who pays the least bit of attention to history in that area of the world that forgiveness is a rare commodity. The ability and willingness to forgive by all sides is the key to real peace.

That doesn't mean you get to handwave the lack of better options. You babbled in response to the question about collateral damage. If you do not permit collateral damage the bad guys always win because they ensure that they can't be defeated without causing collateral damage. Just because this is blasphemy doesn't make it not true.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

But as long as the Palestinians don't want to get rid of leadership like Hamas, enough to get it done, the best bet Israel has is destroying the ability to launch military attacks like Oct 7.

What on earth makes you think “the Palestinians “ don’t want to get rid of leadership like Hamas?

The fact that they continue to support them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Joe Biden is, yet again, allowing himself to be dragged to the left by the fringes of his party.
Biden urges Israel ‘to just call for’ 6-8 week ceasefire, slams PM’s handling of Gaza war

Biden wants Israel to impose a unilateral ceasefire on themselves, with no hostages being released or other concessions by Hamas. However, White House staff later walked back the demand.
In the meantime, Hamas says they do not even have 40 hostages they are willing to release.
Hamas says it does not have 40 Israeli hostages to trade in cease-fire deal
Even though they are holding some 100 hostages or so (133 officially, but many of those have probably died while being held hostage). That's because they are unwilling to release any non-elderly men.

Biden is no doubt trying to appease the "Death to America" Dearbornistan crowd because he needs Michigan so bad come November.
At Michigan Quds Day rally, protesters chant ‘Death to Israel’ and ‘Death to America’
Biden is selling his soul for electoral votes.

Very much agree. A politician should ignore the “fringe” 77 percent that want a cease fire now. Biden such a silly duck for even considering the opinion of such a small part of the electorate!!!

I hate the term ceasefire as it isn't really applicable here. We have a siege. The siege must end, Israel can continue going after Hamas all they want. Hamas deserves no refuge.

And why shouldn't Israel siege them?

Note that Israel is not stopping supplies even though that would be completely legal. Rather, Hamas is fucking things up so badly the people are starving.

A cease fire is to abandon the hostages to torture and death. Is that ok because they're just Jews rather than Palestinians?