Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Loren Pechtel]

Given there are plenty of Zionists who are unwilling to give up on Jewish supremacy in greater Israel in favor of peace and prosperity for all, it will stay ugly even if their Muslim neighbors do give up their dream of Islamic supremacy. Why? Because religious cultists of any stripe are intransigent nuts.

Given that you are a cat why do you keep barking?

(In other words, you're asking us to take as a given something which is not true. It wouldn't be peace and prosperity, it would be death.)

 

[Elixir]

The international community effectively does support Hamas. Any actual wrongs by Hamas are tolerated or blamed on Israel, but Israel is automatically assumed guilty of things that are often staged.

I guess we area not to expect anything better from Israel than we get from Hamas.

you're asking us to take as a given something which is not true

Is that projection?
Where is your source saying that "70% of the Gazans killed by Israel since 10/23 are NOT women or children"?
Or were you asking us to take something that is not true, as a given?

 

[Elixir]

I would worry about random Islamist violence before I would worry about being targeted if you do not display any outward Jewish symbols.

Lulz! If you're Jewish you may have bigger problems not displaying any outward Jewish symbols.
There are still more Jews than Muslims in America, but this may change in the near future.

Jewish man mistakes two Israeli tourists for Palestinians and opens fire on them in Miami​

​

Faux strikes again. Keep preaching fear, fear, fear and sometimes you'll get unreasonable fear.

Oh. Perfectly reasonable. I see.

 

[Elixir]

Yeah. Israel isn't genocidal. The Felon is.

Waitaminit ... what group or nation did The Apricot kill with the intent of wiping them out? (I'm not saying he doesn't harbor the intent.)
That looks like one false statement provided to bolster another false statement to make it sound more acceptable to present company.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Israel acknowledges possible forced use of civilians in Gaza military operations, launches investigation

The Israeli military is investigating soldiers’ use of Palestinian civilians as human shields during operations in Gaza, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) told CNN on Tuesday night.

This is the first time the military has acknowledged that there is “reasonable suspicion” to believe soldiers forced civilians to take part in military operations.

CNN has reported on Israeli soldiers forcing civilians in Gaza to enter potentially booby-trapped houses and tunnels in order to avoid putting troops in harm’s way.

The practice was reportedly so common in the Israeli military that it had a name: “mosquito protocol.”

The exact scale and scope of the practice by the Israeli military is not known. But the testimony of both the soldier and five civilians last year indicated that it was widespread across the territory: in northern Gaza, Gaza City, Khan Younis and Rafah.

Except that's not how it works.

Yes, it exists, but there's no compulsion. Rather, it's show us your stuff isn't booby-trapped or we will assume it is. You think Hamas is going to be able to booby-trap someone's house while they are there and the person not know it?? This is no different than showing the bomb squad that a suspect item isn't a bomb.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I am of course fucking heartbroken at the blatant violation of ceasefire, the hundreds dead, the resumption of war. But in fascist times, empathy makes you an asshole, and I'm tired of fighting.

As always, it's reported as if Israel was the one who did it out of the blue. This is most definitely not out of the blue.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I am of course fucking heartbroken at the blatant violation of ceasefire, the hundreds dead, the resumption of war. But in fascist times, empathy makes you an asshole, and I'm tired of fighting.

The ceasefire has run its course. The positions of the two sides were intractable.

Israel wanted their hostages freed and Hamas dismantled so that it can't attack Israel again (as Hamas leaders have repeatedly stated is their intent).

Hamas wanted for Israel to end the war (until next 10/7), they wanted to keep being a heavily armed force in Gaza and they did not want to release any hostages unless they get thousands of more terrorists freed in return. Oh, and they wanted IDF to leave the Philadelphi Corridor so they can smuggle weapons in again.

Hopefully Mohammed Sinwar gets sent to his virgins soon.

More fundamental than that: it looks like Hamas was offering things it couldn't deliver. They don't have some of the hostages but won't admit that.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

When you base your position on things which are clearly untrue ("mostly women and children")

Our sources must differ wildly. Approximately 70% of the fatalities in Gaza during the ongoing conflict have been women and children, according to multiple reports from the United Nations and other organizations. What are YOUR sources, Loren?

you arrive at very wrong conclusions.

Yes, you seem to have swallowed Bibi’s line. And hook.

You are omitting a very, very important part of this: "Hamas says:"

I've posted two links to Hamas indirectly admitting that's not true. If anything I would expect more amputations amongst non-targets than amongst targets (the people on the target are unlikely to be around to have an amputation, so this will be biased towards civilians), yet even that skews heavily male. And far more kids lost their father than lost their mother. That only makes sense if most deaths in that age bracket are males.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There's no genocide going on.

View attachment 49540

Keyword: "intent". By that: Hamas is guilty, Israel is not.

WUT? That makes no sense unless you are stipulating that Israel is "people" and Hamas is not.
Do you deny that Israeli is killing large numbers of PEOPLE with the intent of destroying a particular group?

View attachment 49807

If you want to be really pedantic about it you're right. Israel is trying to genocide Hamas. Hamas, not Gaza. But we normally do not apply that term to military forces. Is Ukraine trying to genocide the Russian army?? Why is it right for Ukraine and wrong for Israel?

 

[Elixir]

You are omitting a very, very important part of this: "Hamas says:"

You are ignoring what I DID say:
THE UNITED NATIONS REPORTS THAT 70% OF THE GAZANS KILLED BY ISRAEL SINCE 10/23 WERE WOMEN AND CHILDREN.
^That is what we call a FACT, Loren. (The UN is not Hamas, BTW)

The possible fact that Hamas agrees (I did not see Hamas saying it) would not invalidate the UN report.
If Trump says the specific gravity of mercury is about 13.6, is it automatically false? I admit that him saying it doesn't lend it any credence. But it also doesn't negate the FACT that most reliable sources will confirm that it is so.
So what source lets you call me misinformed for stating the fact that the UN reports 70% of the Gazan killed by Israel since 10/23 have been women and children?

(Let me guess - "Israel Today"?)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

As I write this I have provided the primary source (United Nations) source for the statistic indicating that 70% of the victims of Israel's genocidal campaign have been women and children.
Loren has assaulted me for being deluded by propaganda, but fails to respond to my request for HIS sources.

So I stand by my contentions that
* Israel is killing mostly women and children and
* There has been no loss of Israeli civilian lives at the hand of Hamas since their terrorist attach of 10/23

Saying "you're wrong" or "your sources are lying to you" or "you're just repeating propaganda" doesn't feed the donkey, @Loren Pechtel
You should be reconsidering your position, in light of the statistics from a respected source that I have provided and your complete failure to provide a countervailing source.

Your primary source isn't. The UN has no ability to measure the deaths and thus can't be a primary source.

There is only one primary source for the deaths in Gaza and that is Hamas. Everything else is simply reporting the Hamas numbers, sometimes with corrections based on flaws in the Hamas data.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The international community effectively does support Hamas. Any actual wrongs by Hamas are tolerated or blamed on Israel, but Israel is automatically assumed guilty of things that are often staged.

I guess we area not to expect anything better from Israel than we get from Hamas.

you're asking us to take as a given something which is not true

Is that projection?
Where is your source saying that "70% of the Gazans killed by Israel since 10/23 are NOT women or children"?
Or were you asking us to take something that is not true, as a given?

In one eye and out the other. I have posted two damning links: amputations on males are way above amputations on females. And kids who lost their father are way above kids who lost their mother. Neither is remotely consistent with 70% women and children.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah. Israel isn't genocidal. The Felon is.

Waitaminit ... what group or nation did The Apricot kill with the intent of wiping them out? (I'm not saying he doesn't harbor the intent.)
That looks like one false statement provided to bolster another false statement to make it sound more acceptable to present company.

He hasn't actually done so yet, but his intentions towards Gaza are genocide.

 

[Elixir]

The international community effectively does support Hamas. Any actual wrongs by Hamas are tolerated or blamed on Israel, but Israel is automatically assumed guilty of things that are often staged.

I guess we area not to expect anything better from Israel than we get from Hamas.

you're asking us to take as a given something which is not true

Is that projection?
Where is your source saying that "70% of the Gazans killed by Israel since 10/23 are NOT women or children"?
Or were you asking us to take something that is not true, as a given?

In one eye and out the other. I have posted two damning links: amputations on males are way above amputations on females. And kids who lost their father are way above kids who lost their mother. Neither is remotely consistent with 70% women and children.

You know better Loren.
Neither one contradicts or obviates the UN report. Do I have to explain why?
And you STILL have provided only ONE source: Poster Loren Pechtel of IIDB. I may have missed the two links you provided that contradict the UN. If so, mea culpa, and I ask that you re-post them so that their credibility can be compared to that of the United Nations Report.

 

[bilby]

Their choices are fight, thus causing major Palestinian casualties (but not genocide no matter how often Hamas leads you into chanting it) or to die. There is no middle ground no matter how much the leftist faith says there is.

Never mind "leftist faith", recent history says that these are not the only options.

Damn that leftist history, coming here disagreeing with our simplistic demands for violence.

Perhaps we need to kill history too, to stop it from contradicting the propaganda line we need to take in order to justify killing thousands of people (which is technically not genocide, and therefore perfectly OK).

Denying that you're operating on faith doesn't change the fact you are.

You have not presented any reasonable other options.

And you're the one that isn't looking at history--you keep demanding an appeasement approach from Israel.

If "fight" or "die" were the only options in any conflict, the entire world would be at war, or dead.

It's not.

Therefore other options exist.

If you don't understand history, can you at least try to understand some basic logic?

 

[Elixir]

Yeah. Israel isn't genocidal. The Felon is.

Waitaminit ... what group or nation did The Apricot kill with the intent of wiping them out? (I'm not saying he doesn't harbor the intent.)
That looks like one false statement provided to bolster another false statement to make it sound more acceptable to present company.

He hasn't actually done so yet, but his intentions towards Gaza are genocide.

Just like my wish that Cheato would croak is murder.
Note that the definition of genocide (you?) posted here specifies - in fact begins with the word - "killing", not "intending".
Why do you not re-post the links that I (assumed I) missed?
You yourself just pointed out "Denying that you're operating on faith doesn't change the fact you are."
I need to see your very credible sources that counter the UN report, or I will remain convinced that you are operating on faith.

 

[Politesse]

I am of course fucking heartbroken at the blatant violation of ceasefire, the hundreds dead, the resumption of war. But in fascist times, empathy makes you an asshole, and I'm tired of fighting.

As always, it's reported as if Israel was the one who did it out of the blue. This is most definitely not out of the blue.

"Out of the blue" is a bizarre way to describe a unilateral violation of a negotiated ceasefire. No, you don't get to violate a supposed truce just because negotiations aren't going your way.

 

[laughing dog]

The international community effectively does support Hamas. Any actual wrongs by Hamas are tolerated or blamed on Israel, but Israel is automatically assumed guilty of things that are often staged.

I guess we area not to expect anything better from Israel than we get from Hamas.

you're asking us to take as a given something which is not true

Is that projection?
Where is your source saying that "70% of the Gazans killed by Israel since 10/23 are NOT women or children"?
Or were you asking us to take something that is not true, as a given?

In one eye and out the other. I have posted two damning links: amputations on males are way above amputations on females. And kids who lost their father are way above kids who lost their mother. Neither is remotely consistent with 70% women and children.

. Amputations are generally performed on living beings, so it is not clear how it demonstrates anything about who is killed. In fact, if anything, by itself, the fact amputations on males greatly exceeding those on females tends to confirm the observation that more females are killed than males. The stuff about children who lose one parent or the other is not terribly indicative of anything without more contextual information.

So you really need to show your work if you wish others to find your claims convincing.

 

[laughing dog]

Given there are plenty of Zionists who are unwilling to give up on Jewish supremacy in greater Israel in favor of peace and prosperity for all, it will stay ugly even if their Muslim neighbors do give up their dream of Islamic supremacy. Why? Because religious cultists of any stripe are intransigent nuts.

Given that you are a cat why do you keep barking?

(In other words, you're asking us to take as a given something which is not true. It wouldn't be peace and prosperity, it would be death.)

"even if their Muslim neighbors do give up their dream of Islamic supremacy" is a conditional. If it is not true, then the observation is meaningless. If it is true, then the Muslim neighbors are not trying to annihilate Israel.

Which makes your response literally inane. Either read with comprehension or use reason because you are embarrassing yourself with such responses.

 

[Derec]

If it goes to 500,000 dead to ”pay for” what Hamas did in 2023, there will still be no repentance.

It's not about a number "to pay for what Hamas did". Hamas could end all this today by releasing all hostages and dismantling as a terrorist force.
Israel understandably does not want a situation where Hamas can rearm and attack Israel again a few years from now.
And no, Hamas giving up formal governing authority (and responsibility) but maintaining its "armed wing" like the Egyptian plan envisions is certainly not a solution.