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General Poetry Discussion

I'm going to go ahead and drop another full preview to my recently published book in this thread - here. This is the final version without any copy errors. I assume most of us have more pressing things to attend to, but this at least gives a few people a chance to take a look at the final version if / when time permits.

I also decided to keep it up on Amazon here. I purposely priced the book way too high for a few reasons - the first being that the book represents about eight years of work, so in my view it's content is actually worth that price. I know no one will buy at that cost, but I'd rather have the integrity of valuing my own work, than pandering for people to buy it. The book is also very personal, so on some level it discourages voyeuristic purchases.

If I could go back and have a do over I'd likely change a few pieces and a few lines - but these kind of mistakes happen when you're trying to perfect about 80 poems within the course of a few months.

If anyone gets a chance to take a look I'd love to hear some feedback, either public or private.
 
Looks like I had forgotten to make the preview public - that's done now. I've also just written three blog posts on the book and poetry on my author profile on Goodreads - here, for the person wanting to kill some time. The posts are as follows:

Comments on my Writing Style Circa 2020
The Challenge of Writing Poetry
The Making of Beyond Love

I'm not really marketing the book on Goodreads with these posts, per se, it's just fun to express some thoughts about the hobby. And yea, having an Author profile at all is over-kill I know, but it's mostly just a fun thing.
 
I was quite chuffed recently to get a personal response from a Goodreads author whose work I had enjoyed. They do offer avenues of connection.
 
I was quite chuffed recently to get a personal response from a Goodreads author whose work I had enjoyed. They do offer avenues of connection.

I hadn't thought of that, unfortunately most of the authors I'd like to speak with passed away decades ago.

I don't expect to garner much benefit from being an Author on there myself. On some level I just enjoy a part of my identity being linked to something other than my career. Since self-publishing I've gotten some cred points from my artsy friends, and that's all I really care about.

Writers in my city who actually try to sell books end up spending a disproportionate amount of time marketing themselves versus any income they bring in. I figure it's largely a waste of time, and that any more than the initial announcement would just annoy my friends / family.
 
Writers in my city who actually try to sell books end up spending a disproportionate amount of time marketing themselves versus any income they bring in. I figure it's largely a waste of time, and that any more than the initial announcement would just annoy my friends / family.

Judson Jerome (The Poet's Handbook) says it's best to think of poetry as a hobby, one that's cheaper than bass fishing.
 
Writers in my city who actually try to sell books end up spending a disproportionate amount of time marketing themselves versus any income they bring in. I figure it's largely a waste of time, and that any more than the initial announcement would just annoy my friends / family.

Judson Jerome (The Poet's Handbook) says it's best to think of poetry as a hobby, one that's cheaper than bass fishing.

Reading about Leonard Cohen's life a few months ago, it was telling that at one time he was considered the strongest new poet in Canada, and still basically starving. Even Nobel prize winners, we think of the award as prestigious, but I'd guess that none of my acquaintances could name even one person who's won the literature prize.

Just being able to produce art, I think, speaks to my own privilege. Art is what happens when everything else is already going well, for most people there are far more important things to attend to.
 
Oh, hello. What's all this then?

A general discussion of poetry thread. Hmmm...

I just noted this, although I may have seen it before but failed to let it sink in.

Cool, rousseau! You realize of course, that due to my present happy happy joy joy temperament, that my ability to write at great length has returned? Oh gosh, where to begin. Let me think for a while.

There is so much to say. I must dial it back and gain control of myself, and my fingers.

As MacArthur said, and Arnold, I shall be back! :joy:
 
Oddly enough I haven't actually read many names at this point. Odd because I've been writing poetry consistently for six years. A part of that might be access to a university library over the past while - other topics and books have taken my attention - and they're free. That and I have trouble choosing between alternatives without recommendations. Lots of poetry, absolutely nothing to go off of.

My collection - everything Cohen's done, some Irving Layton, Cavafy, Ginsberg, Corso, Burns, Ehrmann, Shakespeare, Lorca, Rilke, Trakl, a number of compilations both professional and amateur, and some ancient poetry. I've actually purchased quite a bit of it since the pandemic started and the library shut down.

Let me reply for once without being silly.

As might be obvious to most by now, poetry is right up my alley. I fell in love with the art when I was around fourteen. I first developed an interest in song lyrics, and that goes back to my earliest memories. My father would always play music, and I would tune into the words just as much as the music. My pop would sit with me and we would discuss the lyrics. I distinctly remember him asking me what I thought Fool on the Hill meant. I was very young, but I remember thinking the line, "And the eyes in his head..." meant that this person had eyes in the back of his head. I imagined him as a Humpty-Dumpty type character, and being a child and a literalist, I imagined him sitting literally on a hill.

I distinctly remember developing a serious interest in words and especially song lyrics, though I was very young, perhaps four or five. I thought the words in The Sound of Silence were, "Beneath the halo of a street clown." (It is street lamp.) But I imagined a clown with a halo. Like I said, I was a literalist through and through.

Skip many years...

In high school, in the eighth grade (aha! So I was thirteen!), I had to memorize Robert Frost's poem "Mending Wall". What a superb poem that was, and I do recall really liking it. I wanted to understand what all the words meant. Eventually, I learned about meter. Subsequently, I became obsessed with it. I absolutely HAD to learn how to do it. My English class in eighth grade was not big on poetry; we barely touched on it, but there was a brief discussion of meter. However, I did nearly all of my real learning on my own. I pored over Frost, Tennyson, E.A. Robinson, William Cullen Bryant (whose Thanatopsis is a great example of expert blank verse and shall go in the iambic pentameter thread post haste and toot sweet), and of course, Shakespeare. I knew even then that no-one did it as well as Shakespeare. No-one had to tell me.

Over time, I taught myself how to write my rudimentary, clumsy lines. I wrote sonnets, blank verse, couplets, iambic tet, etc., but my poems sucked tremendously. At least when I was a teenager. I began to do it better and better, and even explored free verse. My obsession continued and has not abated to this day. I still prefer metrical poetry, though a third of my stuff is in free verse. Most of my published poems (small journals) were in rhymed and metered verse.

As for publishing: I was into submitting during the late eightees and all the way until 2000, when I stopped. I was fairly successful, since I didn't submit all that much. My first submission ever was a batch of poems to Bitterroot, a small journal from upstate NY, owned and edited by Menke Katz, an excellent Yiddish/American poet, much neglected but well known, who wrote mostly in Yiddish. He was from Lithuania, and wrote beautifully of Jewish persecution, and the holocaust. Mr. Katz accepted a little piece of mine. This was 1987, my first ever submission. YAY! I was told by the experts, like Judson Jerome who edited the Poet's Market, that I would have to wade through piles of rejections, like Hemingway and many other writers and poets.

I did above average while I submitted, but by the time I went online, I was bored with formal publishing, and to be honest, I was convinced then and am still today that anyone can be a published poet and writer, and that 99.9999999 % of published poetry sucks. It sucks!

I am content today to have the kind words and occasional praise of several accomplished and widely published poets, mostly Americans, but a few from abroad. I met the bulk of them at Eratosphere, and one, the terrific Scottish poet, Rob MacKenzie, at PFFA. Rob and I became friends online, and he was an early champion of my work, and tried to drum up interest in it, but I didn't care that much, and he eventually gave up.

But enough about me. Let's talk about me. :D

More later. I will talk about who my favorite poets are, and share more thoughts on poetry. :joy:

Thanks for the thread, rousseau! We starving artists need some attention once in a while.

ETA: we cross posted, rousseau. I just noticed post #48. Will address it soon, after I help cook something.
 
I thought this thread needed a bump. We have quite a few peeps here who like and or write poetry, and there is so much to banter about. Think about how prominent a place in most cultures poetry was, once upon a time, and think how woefully little society seems to care about it now. It's a shame.

I can't help but think of Rousseau's comment somewhere that even his own family has little interest in his poetry (if I am thinking of someone else, Rousseau, please correct me). In my life, I was absolutely isolated with regard to my interest in reading and writing poetry. Until I went online I literally knew of not a single other person who read or wrote poetry. Poetry was something one suffered through in school.

Also, most people have a dismally foreshortened conception of what poetry is. For most, it means sugary dreck, a litany of platitudes and cliches, as one reads in a Hallmark card; or it's unicorns, rainbows, cats, and Mom's apple pie; or it's the dark and twisted shards of icy pain in some fainting dandy's heart.

The worst insult I ever got was when an old family friend accused me on Facebook of posting poems because I was hoping to woo my female friends. Aaaach! I hereby swear an oath, that I have never tried to win a woman's affections with poetry! Quite the contrary. To me, poetry is a literary art, not a means of getting a date! In fact, since I grew up in an environment that virtually held poetry in contempt, I was more embarrassed about my attachment to it than anything else.

To be continued...
 
Ah, I wooed a lady with poetry once. Really, with a single poem. It works well, if you are of like minds on the topic. A good way for two introverts to communicate. It turned out she'd been working on one for me as well. We married a year and a half later. Life is full of sweet little moments.
 
Ah, I wooed a lady with poetry once. Really, with a single poem. It works well, if you are of like minds on the topic. A good way for two introverts to communicate. It turned out she'd been working on one for me as well. We married a year and a half later.

Well, I am, after all, quite the odd sort. Nope, I never used poetry as a tool for pitching woo. I have written many a poem about my affections for various women, but would never DARE show them to them.

Like I said, I was mostly embarrassed about my affair with poetry. It was only when I met other poets online that I began to shake that off.

Great thing for you, though! Good on ya!
 
Oh, I agree with your general point, though! There is too little respect for the art. Actually, I doubt that someone who was only writing poetry to make the girls swoon, would write poetry good enough to make anyone swoon over. It does take time and sacrifice to learn any art.

I've written poetry for or about people who will never see it, as well. One of my favorites is centered around the memory of a stranger who accidentally fell asleep on my shoulder during a long train ride. I enshrined my thoughts in poetry because it would be a terrible idea to voice any of said thoughts aloud.
 
:D
Writers in my city who actually try to sell books end up spending a disproportionate amount of time marketing themselves versus any income they bring in. I figure it's largely a waste of time, and that any more than the initial announcement would just annoy my friends / family.

Judson Jerome (The Poet's Handbook) says it's best to think of poetry as a hobby, one that's cheaper than bass fishing.

I totally agree with that quote. I don't want to mess up your thread guys, but I felt motivated to say that I started writing poetry when I was in grammar school. I was despised by some of my classmates in the 5th grade because while we were required to memorize 25 lines of poetry, I memorized over 500 lines of poetry. My teacher loved me but the rest of the class thought that I was a pain in the ass, since we had to recite the poetry in front of the class. That may be why that teacher told my mother that I had outstanding dramatic ability. :D

Despite taking a course in poetry in college, somewhere along the way, I totally lost my interest in reading poetry. I do have a very small collection of poems that I wrote during the last two years of my nursing career. They were all about my patients with dementia or other disturbing problems and my feelings. I think I still have some of them, but as far as poems go, they aren't terrific, but they remain meaningful to me.

So, after being in and out of love with poetry, I now see it as a very personal way of expressing one's feelings, regardless if those feelings are regarding awe of the universe and the beauty of nature, or of something quite morose. I will try not to interfere with your love of poetry. I just felt the need to express a somewhat alternate opinion of poetry.

I honestly did try to become interested in poetry again several years ago, but it just didn't do it for me like it did during my childhood and early adulthood. But, if any of you enjoy writing humorous poems or even limericks, I just might take a peak because humor and laughter is what helps us cope with the world. And, I still get a kick out of the silliest poems.

You know.....like the Little Willy poems

Willy saw some dynamite
Couldn't understand it quite
Curiosity seldom pays
It rained Willy several days

Or.....

Willy with a thirst for gore
Nailed his sister to the door
Mother said with humor quaint
Willy dear, don't scratch that paint

Is it odd, or sick that I remember most of the Little Willy poems but have forgotten all of the more serious poems that I memorized as a child?
 
Lol at Sohy. I had never heard of the Little Willy poems until just now. Who wrote them? Was it the famous Anonymous?

Hey, what do I have to do to get you to post one of your poems, Sohy? I can cook, clean, rake leaves, even do laundry. But I stink at ironing.
 
I don't entirely feel that poetry isn't respected. Rather, I'd invert that thought and describe it as few having the ability to appreciate it. If you can pull out a play by Shakespeare and all you see are random words on a page you're never going to get it. This is most people.

If you look at the modern music industry lyrics are very much poetry, but simple, easy to understand poetry that comes along with music. People love this kind of poetry, and the musical accompaniment elevates the art to a status that isn't considered intellectual (read: actually cool).

But ipso facto poetry reaches beyond music lyrically, it's difficult, challenging. You need pretty good literacy skills just to be able to read it, let alone comprehend it or write it. For most people this is an easily avoidable waste of energy. I find it interesting as I read more poetry how often poets came from wealthy families, and were highly educated. These were the few people with the time and ability to actually write anything of quality.

So that being said I look at poetry as a kind of secret club. Like the tower of song, there is the tower of poetry, written and appreciated by poets, and those looking for something beyond everyday culture. By definition these people are few.
 
Ah, I wooed a lady with poetry once. Really, with a single poem. It works well, if you are of like minds on the topic. A good way for two introverts to communicate. It turned out she'd been working on one for me as well. We married a year and a half later. Life is full of sweet little moments.

Ah, I wooed a lady with poetry once. Really, with a single poem. It works well, if you are of like minds on the topic. A good way for two introverts to communicate. It turned out she'd been working on one for me as well. We married a year and a half later.

Well, I am, after all, quite the odd sort. Nope, I never used poetry as a tool for pitching woo. I have written many a poem about my affections for various women, but would never DARE show them to them.

Like I said, I was mostly embarrassed about my affair with poetry. It was only when I met other poets online that I began to shake that off.

Great thing for you, though! Good on ya!

In a lot of respects the entire book I just produced was dedicated to, and for, my wife. But interestingly the closest I got to complimenting her inside was when I said (paraphrasing) don't underestimate her or she'll crush you. Almost no direct references to her at all, as Leonard Cohen said - 'true love leaves no traces'.

But as for my motivation? It was entirely a personal challenge. I'm a decent writer, and I want to see how far I can push it.
 
You know.....like the Little Willy poems

Willy saw some dynamite
Couldn't understand it quite
Curiosity seldom pays
It rained Willy several days

Or.....

Willy with a thirst for gore
Nailed his sister to the door
Mother said with humor quaint
Willy dear, don't scratch that paint

My father, who had more "serious" poetry memorized than most people (in the last few months of his life he memorized Gray's "Elegy in a Country Churchyard", which is no mean feat for an 89 year old), loved the Little Willy poems and could roll out quite a few. His version of "nauiled his sister to the door" ended up:

Willy's always full of tricks -
Ain't he cute? He's only six.

There was another I remember, something like:

Willy with his flowing sash
Fell in the fire and burned to ash.
Though the room grew cold and chilly
no one cared to poke up Willy.

WAB you can find some more here.

My father had another one I remember, not a little Willy:

I give you now Professor Twist,
A conscientious scientist.
Trustees exclaimed "He never bungles"
And sent him off to distant jungles.
Camped by some tropic riverside
One day he missed his loving bride.
She had, the guide informed him later,
Been eaten by an alligator.
Professor Twist could only smile.
"You mean," he said, "a crocodile."
 
I can't help but think of Rousseau's comment somewhere that even his own family has little interest in his poetry (if I am thinking of someone else, Rousseau, please correct me). In my life, I was absolutely isolated with regard to my interest in reading and writing poetry. Until I went online I literally knew of not a single other person who read or wrote poetry. Poetry was something one suffered through in school.

I did say that, but I will add that I didn't say it with any sense of pessimism. My wife asked for her own copy of my recent book so she could make notes in it. A few other family members have read it, too, but I haven't asked for feedback. And some other lovely people who think I'm a cool guy have bought some copies as well.

I mention the lack of interest more with a sense of realism than pessimism. It's that people just don't have the time or energy, or sometimes the appreciation. Even I don't read much poetry given how much I enjoy writing it. For those with minimal interest poetry just tacks on another complicated thing to tackle in their lives.

I've been thinking about this a lot too - how poets want to be heard. But if the poet wants to express and be heard, shouldn't they be even more focused on listening to the expression of others? Who am I to expect others to read my work, when everyone else wants to be heard just as badly? This was a very humbling insight from the process of creating my book, I realized how important listening is. And if I truly listen to others - the truth is they just don't have the time. But if I give them the time, eventually they get there. I gave my brother my first two poetry books in 2017. It took him three years but he finally read them recently.
 
I did above average while I submitted, but by the time I went online, I was bored with formal publishing, and to be honest, I was convinced then and am still today that anyone can be a published poet and writer, and that 99.9999999 % of published poetry sucks. It sucks!

I am content today to have the kind words and occasional praise of several accomplished and widely published poets, mostly Americans, but a few from abroad. I met the bulk of them at Eratosphere, and one, the terrific Scottish poet, Rob MacKenzie, at PFFA. Rob and I became friends online, and he was an early champion of my work, and tried to drum up interest in it, but I didn't care that much, and he eventually gave up.

I don't think I've ever had a real interest in being properly published. I recall attending an Open Mic night with my wife a number of years ago, and my reaction to it personified my feelings on being published. I believe a lot of what I write isn't really appropriate for that kind of venue, and I just don't have a lot of interest in connecting with the literary world. On some level I enjoy keeping my work private to my family and close friends.

That being said there are a few literary people in my city who I'd love to share my book with, and if the world was actually receptive to poetry I might give it a shot. But as it is I probably gain more credibility by not peddling my work to people who really don't want it.

Moreover, I just write because I like writing. It passes the time. Since finishing my book I've lost a lot of steam, though, as in many ways it was a capstone of about 8 years of writing. Kind of like a grand finale to phase one.
 
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