George Floyd murderer's trial

[SLD]

Doesn't the vote have to be unanimous for 2nd degree murder? I still think hung jury.

Yeah hung jury is a real possibility. Forgot to add that.

 

[Jarhyn]

I agree with Jarhyn. If you get a lot of accusations some of them may indeed be fictional. But the overall feedback provides an indicator just like ebay uses for their transactions.

The problem is that it also reflects what you do on the force.

Somebody who patrols the inner cities will have a lot more complaints than someone who patrols Small Town, USA.

They will. They will also have fewer than the assholes in the department there and so the assholes would stand out regardless.

 

[Toni]

Every single time I read that Trump "incited" the Capitol riot, I have to go back to see what the evidence for it is and I'm re-flabbergasted at how straw-graspingly desperate it is.

Agreed. The arguments he made and what his lawyers said on his behalf in regard to the election being stolen were fucking pathetic. What Rep. Waters is referring to (i.e. to complete absence of police accountability) is very well documented. Poorly worded but grounded in reality. Also, FWIW, I don't think Trump deserved to be impeached. It's also pretty obvious the guy is a soft cock and will never take responsibility for his actions. His narcissism, his comments on every single election being rigged against him, his unwillingness to accept reality and possibly object permanence all indicate he wanted a riot done in his name so long as he isn't held accountable. For fuck's sake, he has yet to condemn his personal fucking lawyer (and how many clients do you think Giuliani has?) demanding trial by combat on Jan 6. Trump isn't upset domestic terrorism occurred on his watch, he's upset that it fail. But because he didn't sign a confession in front of Jesus and Mother Teresa stating this, good faith skeptics like yourself exhibit reasonable doubt. Rep Waters is upset Law Enforcement isn't being held to the same standards as citizens, when in a fair and just world should be held to a higher standard. Coupled with the plethora of examples of Trump's obfuscation ("I hope you can make this go away", "I need you to do me a favour" etc) and it's pretty obvious you are comparing apples with an orange fascist wannabee.

You might want to dial back your SKY News consumption.

FWIW, I think you made a very good case for why Trump needed to be impeached. Not because it will reform him or teach him a goddamn thing. He's incapable of learning or of any type of self reflection at all. But the country needed to condemn his actions.

 

[Toni]

I agree with Jarhyn. If you get a lot of accusations some of them may indeed be fictional. But the overall feedback provides an indicator just like ebay uses for their transactions.

The problem is that it also reflects what you do on the force.

Somebody who patrols the inner cities will have a lot more complaints than someone who patrols Small Town, USA.

Not necessarily. Oh, sure: overall numbers. But not necessarily proportionally. It took a while for my city to get rid of a couple of bad eggs on the police department but they did. Without anyone actually killing anybody, either.

 

[Toni]

I'm not sure I asked for your advice about my news consumption.

No worries. I'm certain you didn't. It's great advice nonetheless.

It is.

 

[Patooka]

I'm not sure I asked for your advice about my news consumption.

No worries. I'm certain you didn't. It's great advice nonetheless.

It is.

Fun fact: most Australians consider Sky News, the Herald Sun, Guardian Online and The Daily Telegraph as the least trusted news source. Murdoch runs 3 out of those 4 media outlets.

 

[blastula]

Jury instructions here.

I would vote guilty on all three counts.

 

[Toni]

It is.

Fun fact: most Australians consider Sky News, the Herald Sun, Guardian Online and The Daily Telegraph as the least trusted news source. Murdoch runs 3 out of those 4 media outlets.

I believe it.

Generally speaking, when I think of Australians, I have nothing but happy impressions. And then I think of Murdoch and ......my head explodes

 

[Jarhyn]

It is.

Fun fact: most Australians consider Sky News, the Herald Sun, Guardian Online and The Daily Telegraph as the least trusted news source. Murdoch runs 3 out of those 4 media outlets.

I believe it.

Generally speaking, when I think of Australians, I have nothing but happy impressions. And then I think of Murdoch and ......my head explodes

Australia has it's issues, to be sure. We in the west usually only see the friendliest, most outgoing examples. There are plenty of examples who are utter shite when it comes to being neighborly, particularly with respect to the original inhabitants of the land they squat on.

 

[Patooka]

FWIW, I think you made a very good case for why Trump needed to be impeached. Not because it will reform him or teach him a goddamn thing. He's incapable of learning or of any type of self reflection at all. But the country needed to condemn his actions.

Trump isn't all that dangerous. The amount of people that unreservedly follow him are. The actions of those people desperately need to be condemned because as long as my arse has a hole in it, there will be another Trump. And the next one might be competent. Personally, I thought impeachment was the wrong way to go about addressing this. Merrick Garland and the DOJ doing a thorough analysis on the incident would have been a better resolution. With the findings released well before the mid terms to prevent the totally not racist Freedom Caucus to cry partisanship.

But hindsight and all that - it still shows how what Rap Walters said is in no way comparable to Trump's rhetoric.

Australia has it's issues, to be sure. We in the west usually only see the friendliest, most outgoing examples. There are plenty of examples who are utter shite when it comes to being neighborly, particularly with respect to the original inhabitants of the land they squat on.

The life expectancy in rural Australia is on par with North Korea at 69 years. It's even worse for indigenous communities. We also have the largest amount of native wildlife on the endangered species list because koalas don't vote and property developers can donate. So, yeah, some issues.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I agree with Jarhyn. If you get a lot of accusations some of them may indeed be fictional. But the overall feedback provides an indicator just like ebay uses for their transactions.

The problem is that it also reflects what you do on the force.

Somebody who patrols the inner cities will have a lot more complaints than someone who patrols Small Town, USA.

Not necessarily. Oh, sure: overall numbers. But not necessarily proportionally. It took a while for my city to get rid of a couple of bad eggs on the police department but they did. Without anyone actually killing anybody, either.

I'm in favor of getting rid of bad eggs--I just don't believe that you can identify them by complaint counts.

 

[Rhea]

I’m afraid to vote in the poll. Because I will feel it is an injustice if it is not guilty (or hung jury, or mistrial), but the possibility of that exists.

 

[Toni]

FWIW, I think you made a very good case for why Trump needed to be impeached. Not because it will reform him or teach him a goddamn thing. He's incapable of learning or of any type of self reflection at all. But the country needed to condemn his actions.

Trump isn't all that dangerous. The amount of people that unreservedly follow him are. The actions of those people desperately need to be condemned because as long as my arse has a hole in it, there will be another Trump. And the next one might be competent. Personally, I thought impeachment was the wrong way to go about addressing this. Merrick Garland and the DOJ doing a thorough analysis on the incident would have been a better resolution. With the findings released well before the mid terms to prevent the totally not racist Freedom Caucus to cry partisanship.

But hindsight and all that - it still shows how what Rap Walters said is in no way comparable to Trump's rhetoric.

Australia has it's issues, to be sure. We in the west usually only see the friendliest, most outgoing examples. There are plenty of examples who are utter shite when it comes to being neighborly, particularly with respect to the original inhabitants of the land they squat on.

The life expectancy in rural Australia is on par with North Korea at 69 years. It's even worse for indigenous communities. We also have the largest amount of native wildlife on the endangered species list because koalas don't vote and property developers can donate. So, yeah, some issues.

Trump was dangerous because for reasons I cannot begin to comprehend, he attracted large numbers of followers. While I take your point that a more competent version of Trump would be far more dangerous, Trump was/is plenty dangerous enough because he is a useful idiot for those who would use him for nefarious reasons (domestic and foreign).

Waters' remarks were in no way comparable to Trump's inciting those who stormed the Capitol building on 1/6. There is danger in deciding how to deal with him. I think it's mandatory to make him face the full force of any and all laws he has broken. At the same time, there is worry that if he is seen as being treated unfairly, it will spawn a backlash. But of course, his success has already spawned successor useful idiots in Marjory Whatever her name is and that other odious woman as well as some pretty idiotic men.

 

[Toni]

To answer the poll: I think he will be convicted of Murder in the 3rd degree, an option not given in the poll. There is some doubt mostly because he is white and George Floyd was black. Noor who was convicted of Murder in the 3rd degree is black while the woman he inadvertently killed was white. And yeah, that makes a huge difference. I am convinced that if Noor were white, he would have been acquitted. But his conviction has set a precedent so there's hope.

 

[Rhea]

To answer the poll: I think he will be convicted of Murder in the 3rd degree, an option not given in the poll.

I edited to add...

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I think the defense has successfully confused not only the causes of death in the eyes of jurors who have faith in authority but also has obfuscated the judge's instruction to the jury in regard to counts 1 and 2: murder 2 and 3. I am not sure the jury will be able to settle on a singular answer for these charges. I will be surprised if they can unanimously get past all the obfuscation, ambiguity, and misdirection in either count 1 or 2 to settle on conviction of one of these murder charges.

That said, I think the instruction on manslaughter is clear and the evidence to meet the elements of the crime too hard to ignore. So I believe that the jury will agree upon at least the count of manslaughter. I believe what will happen next is that the jurors will agree to choose not guilty on murder 2 and 3 since they unanimously agree on manslaughter so that a mistrial will not result in there being no conviction at all and a possible redo.

In this specific case, a rare partial verdict is possible. That’s when the jury is able to reach a verdict on some charges but not all of them. According to Minnesota’s court rules, “acceptance of a partial verdict may bar further prosecution of any counts over which the jury has deadlocked.” Given that the rules say a partial verdict “may bar” further prosecution, it’s unclear whether the prosecution would have an opportunity to re-charge Chauvin on the deadlocked charges.

But Sampsell-Jones says that juries typically work to avoid partial verdicts.

“Usually what juries do in that circumstance, they reach a compromise where they can get to unanimity on some counts, and then they find not guilty on the other counts,” he said. “If there's really any disagreement, maybe they all say, ‘Okay, let's do not guilty on murder two, but let's all agree to find guilty on murder three and manslaughter.’ That's what juries more frequently do in practice.”

https://www.king5.com/article/news/...ible/536-cf9ee81f-f3f6-4621-ac60-7ed2277c9754

 

[Elixir]

Can the perp be found guilty of murder 2 AND murder 3?

I think murder 3 is a foregone conclusion.

 

[Gun Nut]

Is she inciting violence. No. BUT is she saying the right things? Not completely.

If Waters' statements are not incitement, then nothing Trump said was incitement either.

I don't completely disagree that a comparison can be made... in the case of Trump, it was the insurrection attempt. In Water's case it was.... wait, what was incited?

 

[Gun Nut]

Can the perp be found guilty of murder 2 AND murder 3?

I think murder 3 is a foregone conclusion.

Yes. They must vote guilty or not guilty for each and every charge, independent of each other charge. They can vote guilty on any, all, or none.
I don't think M2 is off the table. He chose to exercise his 5th amendment right to not testify. That was a mistake... not only because it looks bad (regardless of being instructed that it should never look bad), but the only impression that was given of the defendant is the picture of him looking smug with his hands in his pockets while the victim lay dead beneath him.
The defense's failure to offer another picture of him, one way or the other, holds the door open for the jury to find him guilty of M3... he looks like someone proud of what he set out to accomplish - killing an "uppity negro".

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Is she inciting violence. No. BUT is she saying the right things? Not completely.

If Waters' statements are not incitement, then nothing Trump said was incitement either.

I don't completely disagree that a comparison can be made... in the case of Trump, it was the insurrection attempt. In Water's case it was.... wait, what was incited?

I wouldn't even go down that path. Metaphor is just arguing to be confrontational.