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Harvey Weinstein scandal

TSwizzle said:
Aziz Ansari now getting some heat for a date he had with "Grace".

Babe

This one seems a bit iffy.
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If the related story about this date is accurate, this is a good example of it being a bad idea to push way hard for action on a first date.

Also, sounds like he is a porn addict maybe watching stuff related to "gagging" - it is bad that intense stuff like that gets a big reaction from guy's dingdongs. I would bet most of the guys that crank to it are not interested in doing it in real life. The whole sportfucking high intensity porn may be to offset the fact that it is just a dude cranking it alone which is sterile. Leave sportfucking and porn stuff for later sexual experiences with a woman.

Seems like Aziz is either a jerk or a weirdo that is not very tuned into body language - again if the related story is accurate. He seems kind of wide-eyed and goofy which lets him be a damn good comedian.
 
He was a bad date, he didn't care much about her other than as a jerkoff receptacle, but wasn't criminal.
 
blastula said:
He was a bad date, he didn't care much about her other than as a jerkoff receptacle, but wasn't criminal.
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Yeah, I've got to say, I was waiting the entire time for the other shoe to drop, but I don't see anything that rises to sexual assault.

I mean, how naive do you have to be as a 22 year old that when a guy asks you up to his apartment, this isn't interpreted as a *clear non-verbal communication asking you for sex*.

But OK, it seems at several points he explicitly asked for sex. It sounds like at any point in time, she could have clearly said, "No thanks", and left.
 
J842P said:
blastula said:
He was a bad date, he didn't care much about her other than as a jerkoff receptacle, but wasn't criminal.
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Yeah, I've got to say, I was waiting the entire time for the other shoe to drop, but I don't see anything that rises to sexual assault.

I mean, how naive do you have to be as a 22 year old that when a guy asks you up to his apartment, this isn't interpreted as a *clear non-verbal communication asking you for sex*.

But OK, it seems at several points he explicitly asked for sex. It sounds like at any point in time, she could have clearly said, "No thanks", and left.
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I don't disagree at all. Definitely what I would have done.

But I will say that I know more than one woman who was too passive at that age--and beyond--to feel able to do that. I honestly not understand it but I have known more than one extremely intelligent, very beautiful, otherwise together woman who became very passive when she found herself in such situations. It's like they just shut down and felt they had no choice. I mean: genuinely felt like they had no choice. I'm serious, although I don't understand it at all.
 
Toni said:
J842P said:
blastula said:
He was a bad date, he didn't care much about her other than as a jerkoff receptacle, but wasn't criminal.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've got to say, I was waiting the entire time for the other shoe to drop, but I don't see anything that rises to sexual assault.

I mean, how naive do you have to be as a 22 year old that when a guy asks you up to his apartment, this isn't interpreted as a *clear non-verbal communication asking you for sex*.

But OK, it seems at several points he explicitly asked for sex. It sounds like at any point in time, she could have clearly said, "No thanks", and left.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree at all. Definitely what I would have done.

But I will say that I know more than one woman who was too passive at that age--and beyond--to feel able to do that. I honestly not understand it but I have known more than one extremely intelligent, very beautiful, otherwise together woman who became very passive when she found herself in such situations. It's like they just shut down and felt they had no choice. I mean: genuinely felt like they had no choice. I'm serious, although I don't understand it at all.
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I know women like that, too. But I think some folks are seriously discounting charisma and persuasiveness. Some people have a combination of wits and charm that allows them to talk others into doing things they normally wouldn't do.

I'm not saying that's what happened between 'Grace' and Mr. Ansari. I don't know enough about the incident to make that call. But given Mr. Ansari's acting and comedic talents, it's likely he can be very persuasive when he wants to be.
 
"Body language" is an extremely subjective thing and easily confused with purely internal thoughts and emotions. The "vibe" people think they are putting off is often not at all what any observer would agree with. IOW, someone may feeling anxious and uncertain and feel like it is obvious to others, but not actually displaying any such thing, even non-verbally. I see this all the time in the context of public speaking at research conferences. I sometimes feel extremely anxious and think I'm blowing it, then people tell me it was great and didn't notice that at all. Likewise, I see others give impressive confident talks, then tell me they were "shaking".

Plus, many people could be a bit awkward and seem nervous, even when they are fully consenting participants. And if the other person is also insecure and nervous, that would make them even less aware that the other person was too.

Bottom line is that "body language" needs to be explicitly and clearly ruled out as any kind of valid indicator of in these situations, so people know that they to use actual language to communicate.
 
This will come as no surprise to most people in the industry. Scott Baio being a naughty boy;

Eggert became emotional as she described how Baio allegedly began sexually abusing her when she was 14 years old and he was 26. She said Baio continued to molest her “probably once a week” until she was 16. “We started filming the show in September of ’86 and he immediately took to me and befriended me and earned my trust,” Eggert said. “And then he started expressing his love for me and... talking about marriage in the future. I was still 14, before my 15th birthday,” she said. “We were at his house in his car, in his garage, and he reached over and he penetrated me with his finger. And that is when the sexual touching and abuse started after that... He was also telling me, ‘You can’t tell anybody. This is illegal. I’ll go to jail. The show will be over.’”
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HuffPo

This could be serious trouble for Baio. this looks an awful lot like grooming if true. Scott is no Roman Polanski so he will be taken down hard.
 
Arctish said:
Toni said:
I don't disagree at all. Definitely what I would have done.

But I will say that I know more than one woman who was too passive at that age--and beyond--to feel able to do that. I honestly not understand it but I have known more than one extremely intelligent, very beautiful, otherwise together woman who became very passive when she found herself in such situations. It's like they just shut down and felt they had no choice. I mean: genuinely felt like they had no choice. I'm serious, although I don't understand it at all.
Click to expand...

I know women like that, too. But I think some folks are seriously discounting charisma and persuasiveness. Some people have a combination of wits and charm that allows them to talk others into doing things they normally wouldn't do.

I'm not saying that's what happened between 'Grace' and Mr. Ansari. I don't know enough about the incident to make that call. But given Mr. Ansari's acting and comedic talents, it's likely he can be very persuasive when he wants to be.
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Oh, there's the charm factor, sure. But in the instance I'm thinking of, the guy was someone I knew and knew to be somewhere near the place where asshole and douche intersect. Nothing charming about him at all. Just an awful lot of very low self esteem for her. As far as persuasion? He bought her dinner at a not fast food place. That was enough to make him feel entitled and she didn't feel he was wrong.
 
TSwizzle said:
This will come as no surprise to most people in the industry. Scott Baio being a naughty boy;

Eggert became emotional as she described how Baio allegedly began sexually abusing her when she was 14 years old and he was 26. She said Baio continued to molest her “probably once a week” until she was 16. “We started filming the show in September of ’86 and he immediately took to me and befriended me and earned my trust,” Eggert said. “And then he started expressing his love for me and... talking about marriage in the future. I was still 14, before my 15th birthday,” she said. “We were at his house in his car, in his garage, and he reached over and he penetrated me with his finger. And that is when the sexual touching and abuse started after that... He was also telling me, ‘You can’t tell anybody. This is illegal. I’ll go to jail. The show will be over.’”
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HuffPo

This could be serious trouble for Baio. this looks an awful lot like grooming if true. Scott is no Roman Polanski so he will be taken down hard.
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Except Baio doesn’t really have much of a career to lose (Wikipedia seems to suggest he hasn’t worked at all the last several years). And the I’m fairly certain the statute of limitations would have passed on statutory rape.
 
Interesting opinion piece from The Week: The female price of male pleasure


The world is disturbingly comfortable with the fact that women sometimes leave a sexual encounter in tears.

When Babe.net published a pseudonymous woman's account of a difficult encounter with Aziz Ansari that made her cry, the internet exploded with "takes" arguing that the #MeToo movement had finally gone too far. "Grace," the 23-year-old woman, was not an employee of Ansari's, meaning there were no workplace dynamics. Her repeated objections and pleas that they "slow down" were all well and good, but they did not square with the fact that she eventually gave Ansari oral sex. Finally, crucially, she was free to leave.

Why didn't she just get out of there as soon as she felt uncomfortable? many people explicitly or implicitly asked.

It's a rich question, and there are plenty of possible answers. But if you're asking in good faith, if you really want to think through why someone might have acted as she did, the most important one is this: Women are enculturated to be uncomfortable most of the time. And to ignore their discomfort.

This is so baked into our society I feel like we forget it's there. To steal from David Foster Wallace, this is the water we swim in.
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The real problem isn't that we — as a culture — don't sufficiently consider men's biological reality. The problem is rather that theirs is literally the only biological reality we ever bother to consider.

So let's actually talk bodies. Let's take bodies and the facts of sex seriously for a change. And let's allow some women back into the equation, shall we? Because if you're going to wax poetic about male pleasure, you had better be ready to talk about its secret, unpleasant, ubiquitous cousin: female pain.

Research shows that 30 percent of women report pain during vaginal sex, 72 percent report pain during anal sex, and "large proportions" don't tell their partners when sex hurts.

That matters, because nowhere is our lack of practice at thinking about non-male biological realities more evident than when we talk about "bad sex." For all the calls for nuance in this discussion of what does and doesn't constitute harassment or assault, I've been dumbstruck by the flattening work of that phrase — specifically, the assumption that "bad sex" means the same thing to men who have sex with women as it does to women who have sex with men.
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Female California lawmaker behind #MeToo push is accused of groping male staffer

http://time.com/5140897/california-metoo-assemblywoman-misconduct-allegation/
This happen at a work related fundraiser in which she was obviously intoxicated. Unfortunately for her, she has made the comment in the past that being under the influence of alcohol is no excuse for such inappropriate behavior.
 
He Became A Celebrity For Putting Science Before God. Now Lawrence Krauss Faces Allegations Of Sexual Misconduct - BuzzFeed.

This one is disappointing for me. There is at least one well corroborated incident among several believable allegations, showing a pattern there. I clicked on a twitter thread about this story and there were some fellow scientists saying they had previously been warned that Krauss is a harasser. His defense of Epstein now makes more sense. He would be far from the worst abuser, but still unacceptable behavior.
 
blastula said:
He Became A Celebrity For Putting Science Before God. Now Lawrence Krauss Faces Allegations Of Sexual Misconduct - BuzzFeed.

This one is disappointing for me. There is at least one well corroborated incident among several believable allegations, showing a pattern there. I clicked on a twitter thread about this story and there were some fellow scientists saying they had previously been warned that Krauss is a harasser. His defense of Epstein now makes more sense. He would be far from the worst abuser, but still unacceptable behavior.
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Sadly, based on the extensive details in the article, he has all of the hallmarks of a sexual predator. This isn't someone goofing around, like Al Franken. This appears to be a serial predator like Weinstein or Cosby.
 
Krauss's behavior may be serial, but none of the allegations are close to the level of rape by Cosby and Weinstein.
 
blastula said:
He Became A Celebrity For Putting Science Before God. Now Lawrence Krauss Faces Allegations Of Sexual Misconduct - BuzzFeed.

This one is disappointing for me. There is at least one well corroborated incident among several believable allegations, showing a pattern there. I clicked on a twitter thread about this story and there were some fellow scientists saying they had previously been warned that Krauss is a harasser. His defense of Epstein now makes more sense. He would be far from the worst abuser, but still unacceptable behavior.
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It's really too bad. Reminds me of Richard Carrier
 
blastula said:
Krauss's behavior may be serial, but none of the allegations are close to the level of rape by Cosby and Weinstein.
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Krauss has a mere fraction of the money and social influence of those men. Wouldn't surprise me to find, once there has been time to do a full accounting, that there's a causal relationship between the severity of their deeds and their power to escape repercussions.
 
bigfield said:
blastula said:
Krauss's behavior may be serial, but none of the allegations are close to the level of rape by Cosby and Weinstein.
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Krauss has a mere fraction of the money and social influence of those men. Wouldn't surprise me to find, once there has been time to do a full accounting, that there's a causal relationship between the severity of their deeds and their power to escape repercussions.
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I think that’s almost a given. That isn’t to say that all, or even most, guys would do it if they were pretty sure they could get away with. But for those men who have a tendency to behave that way, yes.
 
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