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Hezbollah’s Exploding Electronics

I do not recognize as a valid principle that a provocation justifies any form of retaliation however sadistic. Our international order cannot remain stable if it hands a blank check to any party that thinks "the other guy started it".
Targeting Hezbollah terrorists is hardly "sadistic".
Again, note that you reserve such adjectives for Israel only, when they actually apply to the other side, which you always give a pass to.
I have no idea what past conversations you are referring to. I have never been remotely sympathetic to either side of this dismal, shitty conflict. But innocent common citizens are not soldiers. They are not given any choice whatsoever about whether to participate in it at all. Children are children, regardless of their national or racial background, and cannot deserve a bloody, terrifying death at the hands of a foreign power.
 
To NetanyahuNasrallah the elimination of PalestiniansIsraelis is the solution. It is a de facto genocide.
FIFY.
From reporting from Israel Palestinians have long been dehumanized, much as Nazis did to Jews.
It's more the case that Palestinians are dehumanizing Israelis. Like on 10/7. Or when Palestinian activist Linda "Cockroach" Sarsour said that Israelis should not be humanized.
Palestinians may be at the point where they can not rebuild.
Of course Gaza can be rebuilt. Germany and Japan were much more fucked up after WWII and both rebuilt wonderfully.
Whether it will be rebuilt is a horse of a different color altogether. It wholly depends on Gazans. Will they continue to attack Israel and seek destruction of their neighbor? Will Hamas retain control or will Gazans turn against it, seeking leadership willing to live in peace?
Had Germany and Japan focused on attacking France and China in late 1940s and into the 50s, there would have been no Wirtschaftswunder and the rise of Japanese economy. Instead, Berlin and Tokyo would have been bombed some more.
Children who are the future are dying.
Bombs are flying
People are dying
Children are crying
Politicians are lying too.


*clears throat* Sorry about that.
Yes, sadly children die in wars. But blame those who started this war, not those who were brutally attacked and are defending themselves.
Infrastructure, hospitals, schools ,business, and homes are destroyed. Israel knows exactly what it is doing in Gaza and the West Bank
Israel is defending itself. How about you blame the side responsible for starting this war. And I don't mean "Blame Canada".
 
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^This is Holocaust Revisionist bullshit. It is a lie. It is a lie Netanyahu spread in a political maneuver, much like the lie Trump spread about Haitian immigrants in Springfield.
No, it is not. Bibi may have exaggerated the role of al-Husseini in the Final Solution, but he did collaborate with the Nazis. He was even involved in organizing the all-Muslim Handschar Division of the Waffen-SS.
Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1980-036-05_Amin_al_Husseini_bei_bosnischen_SS-Freiwilligen-1200x400.jpg


Yes, the Grand Mufti had a meeting with Hitler. I posted the Mufti's statement as reported by The Times of Israel in a previous discussion <link> with you. I have also repeatedly posted David Ben Gurion's statement that the Palestinians had nothing to do with the Holocaust and invited anyone who disagrees with Ben Gurion's assessment to post their rebuttal.
He did much more than just meet with Hitler.
I already know about your prejudice against Muslims in general and Palestinians in particular.
It's not prejudice, it's postjudice. I am originally from an area where the Handchar Division operated. They murdered people from my extended family. Spare me the apologetics about this piece of shit, ok.
 
In the sense of not knowing the answer? No. In the sense of being genuinely curious what the people who drink the koolaid think is going on in Israel? Yes.
Now I am curious. What do you people who have drank the islamofascist Koolaid (or Flavoraid) think the answer is?
 
In the sense of not knowing the answer? No. In the sense of being genuinely curious what the people who drink the koolaid think is going on in Israel? Yes.
Now I am curious. What do you people who have drank the islamofascist Koolaid (or Flavoraid) think the answer is?
Why would I ask if I knew?
 
Muslims will differentiate between Jews and Jewish Zionists, much as we differentiate between Mulls and Islamists.
Hamas does not differentiate between Jews and Jewish Zionists. Note the same 3 letters in both Jews and Jewish
Jimmy Carter who brokered the Camp David Accords wrote that the settlements are the major impediment too peace.
Yes they are. Israel has to stop increases in the settlements.
 
I have no idea what past conversations you are referring to.
Throughout this thread and others you have condemnatory adjectives for Israel, but not the terror groups who keep attacking Israel.
I have never been remotely sympathetic to either side of this dismal, shitty conflict.
And yet you reserve your bile for one side only. And the side that is defending itself from aggression too.
But innocent common citizens are not soldiers. They are not given any choice whatsoever about whether to participate in it at all.
No, they are not. But there is no war in which no innocent common citizens are harmed. It is an impossible standard to demand.
To say that Israel (and only Israel) should refrain from any operation in which "innocent common citizens" may be harmed is to say that Israel should not defend itself, but meekly let any attack against their "innocent common citizens" happen with no response.
Children are children, regardless of their national or racial background,
How do you define "children" here? Would you consider a 16 year old Hezbollah terrorist like at least one of these a child?
0f0255fc-723f-4459-9ebd-a7b79567a4ed.png

From here.
In the first wave, 10/12 form the first wave of explosions were terrorists, 2/12 were children (likely children of targeted terrorists).
In the second wave, all 20 of the dead from the 2nd wave were terrorists. One of them (3rd column, 2nd row) was identified as Abdul Moneim Jamal Abdul Moneim "Malak", born in 2008 (making him 15 or 16) and the guy below him looks awfully young too, although I could not find info on him.
I do not consider such minors "innocent victims". Do you?
and cannot deserve a bloody, terrifying death at the hands of a foreign power.
Again, blame the ones who started this war. Gaza did not have to invade Israel on 10/7. Hezbollah did not have to join Hamas et al in attacking Israel. They made their choice. This war is their fault, nobody else's. Least of all is it the fault of the victim of the 10/7 aggression. You might as well blame Ukraine for Russia attacking it.
 
Throughout this thread and others you have condemnatory adjectives for Israel, but not the terror groups who keep attacking Israel.
That is an incorrect characterization of my position. I condemn political violence in all contexts, and strongly believe that my country should not be involved in the Israeli situation in any way. I have never said otherwise.
 
^This is Holocaust Revisionist bullshit. It is a lie. It is a lie Netanyahu spread in a political maneuver, much like the lie Trump spread about Haitian immigrants in Springfield.
No, it is not. Bibi may have exaggerated the role of al-Husseini in the Final Solution,
May have???

Netanyahu said Hitler only wanted to expel the Jews and got the idea to kill them all from the Grand Mufti.

It was an egregious, outrageous lie. From the linked article:

Husseini met Hitler in Berlin in November 1941, when he tried to persuade the Nazi leader to declare his support for the creation of an Arab state, according to German press reports at the time, external.
But in a speech at the World Zionist Congress, external in Jerusalem on Tuesday, Mr Netanyahu gave a different account.

"Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time - he wanted to expel the Jews," the Israeli prime minister said.

"And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said: 'If you expel them, they'll all come here.'

"'So what should I do with them?' he [Hitler] asked. He [Husseini] said: 'Burn them.'"

However, the chief historian of the Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem, Professor Dina Porat, said Mr Netanyahu's statement was factually incorrect.

"You cannot say that it was the mufti who gave Hitler the idea to kill or burn Jews," she told the newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth, external. "It's not true. Their meeting occurred after a series of events that point to this.
Netanyahu lied about the Holocaust. Think about that for a moment. Holocaust deniers say Jews are lying when they talk about the Holocaust. They say Jews are lying about Nazis coming up with a plan to exterminate them, and carrying it out with heartless determination and efficiency. And here's one of the most prominent Jews in the world lending credibility to their claims by lying about Hitler and the Final Solution.



Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1980-036-05_Amin_al_Husseini_bei_bosnischen_SS-Freiwilligen-1200x400.jpg

but he did collaborate with the Nazis. He was even involved in organizing the all-Muslim Handschar Division of the Waffen-SS.
Yes, the Grand Mufti had a meeting with Hitler. I posted the Mufti's statement as reported by The Times of Israel in a previous discussion <link> with you. I have also repeatedly posted David Ben Gurion's statement that the Palestinians had nothing to do with the Holocaust and invited anyone who disagrees with Ben Gurion's assessment to post their rebuttal.
He did much more than just meet with Hitler.

Yes. He met with other prominent Jew haters who were in the process to wiping out the Jews of Europe. He did not lead them, inspire them, or anything like it.

Nazis did not take advice from non-Aryans, much less Semitic people, about how they should run the Third Reich.
I already know about your prejudice against Muslims in general and Palestinians in particular.
It's not prejudice, it's postjudice. I am originally from an area where the Handchar Division operated. They murdered people from my extended family. Spare me the apologetics about this piece of shit, ok.
Spare me the apologetics trying to get Hitler and the Nazi Party off the hook for coming up with the idea to slaughter Jews and other 'undesirables' so you can feel justified in hating Muslims.

The organized mass murders were already underway by the summer of 1941, before al-Husseini had his meeting with Hitler.

I have been to the Illinois Holocaust Museum in Chicago. The people who created it set it up as a walk through history. You follow a path through a series of rooms displaying artifacts, newspapers, journals, private letters, newsreels, etc. that show how anti-Semitism grew and metastasized in Germany, leading to the loss of rights for Jews, then to the forced expulsions, then to the concentration camps, then to the death camps, and finally to the liberation of the survivors. The curators wanted to preserve and present the truth of what happened so that people and nations won't forget. What Netanyahu did, and what you are doing now, is like smearing horseshit all over the walls in there.

It's so fucking dishonest. Do you think the people from your extended family who suffered and were murdered by the Nazis would actually approve of you, or Netanyahu, or anyone else, telling lies about who came up with the Final Solution?
 
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You are misinformed in your attempt at apologia for killing and injuring noncombatants.
I am not misinformed; you are. Noncombatants can be harmed without being targeted.
That is the issue- the harming of non-combatants.
Derec said:
On the other hand, your side unashamedly targets civilians on a regular basis. [/quoute] What side is that? Unlike you, I don’t defend killing noncombatants.
Derec said:
As usual nothing in your response rebuts my point. I showed how they are alike not how they are identical.
They are not alike. The only point of similarity is that they both contain explosives, and even that is a stretch because of very different quantity of explosive materials in each weapon.
Thank you for showing yet another reason how the two are alike.
 
That is an incorrect characterization of my position. I condemn political violence in all contexts,
Even if it were so, you are only vocal about that condemnation when it comes to Israel. Not the groups that brutally attacked Israel on 10/7.
and strongly believe that my country should not be involved in the Israeli situation in any way. I have never said otherwise.
Israel is our ally which is defending itself from a war of aggression from multiple fronts. They need our help, just like Ukraine does. And btw, Iran and Russia are allies too.
 
[quoted my post without comment]
Maybe mods can delete this version of your post.

May have???
Ok, Bibi did exaggerate. But in any case that does not mean that the Mufti was not involved or that he did not collaborate with the Nazis.
He most definitely did.
I do not wish to belabor details in this thread, so most of your reply is snipped.
 
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That is the issue- the harming of non-combatants.
That can't totally be avoided in war. Your position would mean that Israel can't defend itself at all.
And also note that your absolutist position on this is limited to Israel.
Hamas and Hezbollah actually target non-combatants, but you barely bat an eye at that. Instead, you condemn Israel for defending itself from these islamofascists.
Thank you for showing yet another reason how the two are alike.
What do you mean "yet another"? There is one point of similarity, and even that one is of the "sort of, I guess" variety.
 
Even if it were so, you are only vocal about that condemnation when it comes to Israel. Not the groups that brutally attacked Israel on 10/7.
That is not correct. Not only do I unequivocally condemn Hamas for the heinous actions they took that day, I said the exact same thing the last time you made this very accusation.

Israel is our ally which is defending itself from a war of aggression from multiple fronts. They need our help, just like Ukraine does. And btw, Iran and Russia are allies too.
They're shit allies, who are committing genocide and trying to draw us into a regional war of horrific scope.
 
More developments.

Hezbollah Pounds Israel with 140 Rockets

However, a little bit later ...

Israel says its strike on Beirut killed a top Hezbollah military official as Lebanon reports 14 died

There was some kind of meeting so most of the dead and wounded should be members of Hezbollah and possibly also of other terror groups.

Who was Ibrahim Aqil (or Aqeel, as in "Silence, I keel you!")? He was the leader of Hezbollah's elite Radwan Force. He also had a $7M bounty from the US for his involvment in the 1983 Beirut bombing. I wonder if the pilot can claim the bounty? Probably not, alas.
What Is the Radwan Force, the Elite Hezbollah Unit Linked to Ibrahim Aqeel?
Rewards for Justice: Ibrahim Aqil

I also wonder if Rashida Tlaib is having a sad like she did when another one of her Hezbollah buddies, Fuad Shukr, was unalived by the IDF.
 
They're shit allies, who are committing genocide
They are not committing genocide. See, you exaggerate Israel's sins while only mentioning Hamas and Hezbollah when prompted, and even then as an aside.
and trying to draw us into a regional war of horrific scope.
It is Hamas and Hezbollah, both Iranian vassals, who started this war. Place blame where it belongs.
 
They're shit allies, who are committing genocide
They are not committing genocide. See, you exaggerate Israel's sins while only mentioning Hamas and Hezbollah when prompted, and even then as an aside.
and trying to draw us into a regional war of horrific scope.
It is Hamas and Hezbollah, both Iranian vassals, who started this war. Place blame where it belongs.
I have. There are no heroes here. I do not approve of Hezbollah or Hamas' actions. I do not have a "side", nor do I want my country to have a "side". But if we're going to have a "side", I don't want that side to gloating about their clever plan to use terrorism to further enflame tensions with Lebanon.
 
Settlements are not a major issue. All settlements in Gaza had been dismantled, and yet that has not led to a decrease in hostility from Gaza.
What about the settlements and settler violence on the west bank? Do you think it was not a major issue to the Palestinians thrown out of their homes, killed, and terrorized by settlers under the protection of the Israeli military?
Attacks by settlers against West Bank Palestinians are wrong. So are attacks by West Bank Palestinian gunmen against settlers or even against civilians in Israel proper.
But what you wrote is nonresponsive to my point. Israel dismantled all settlements in Gaza in 2005. It did not lead to Gaza becoming peaceful. Quite the contrary. Attacks from Gaza against Israel increased, culminating in the 10/7 massacre. Why do you think abandoning settlements in West Bank (aka Judea and Samaria) would have a different outcome? Not to mention that the Green Line is just an armistice line. Israel has a historical claim on Judea and Samaria, and there should be negotiations about final border. However, Palestinians have been unwilling to concede even East Jerusalem or so-called "right of return" which is a complete non-starter.
Do you think that Palestinians in Gaza don't have an affinity and a relationship with Palestinians in the West Bank?
 
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