How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Elixir]

if he does invade Poland, then NATO would have the pretext they need, in the eyes of the world, to fight back against Russia,

If he does that, I don’t believe the world will need a pretext; that move would be reason enough for the world (minus China, NK, Philippines etc) to agree to put an end to Putin and his ambitions, regardless of his nuclear threats.

 

[crazyfingers]

I'm surprised that US stocks are up today and by so much?? Of course there are 3 hours to go but DOW up 735 points?

And London and Germany both up more than 3%..

 

[SigmatheZeta]

I'm surprised that US stocks are up today and by so much?? Of course there are 3 hours to go but DOW up 735 points?

And London and Germany both up more than 3%..

War contracts, probably.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Unless Putin has lost his mind, this likely ends with Ukraine. The impact to the global economy is likely overstated. If Putin murders Zelensky, the market will drop though. It Putin tries an incursion into NATO, we can lay waste to his petro/gas infrastructure leaving him with an army stuck where they are. But that'll mess up the energy market a boatload, as well as lead to cyber attacks from Putin. Make certain your software is up to date security wise.

 

[skepticalbip]

So the Russian position is clear: Russia is going to unilaterally start a war.

If it becomes clear that NATO is taking over Ukraine then yes. That's what Putin implied in 2008.

barbos, this was one of your posts from next day in December. NATO wasn't taking over Ukraine. "Taking over" is pretty vague anyway and strong ties to Ukraine would not be taking it over, nor would that be justification for an invasion.

What do you mean NATO wasn't taking over Ukraine?
And It IS his justification for invasion. Why is hard to understand for you?

I thought it was to get rid of the Nazis???

It keeps changing.
Depending on if barbos thinks at the time if it is;
. To kill Ukrainian Russian brothers who reject Putin as their leader.
. To stop NATO from invading Russia.
. A new pogrom against Ukrainian Jews.
. A war against NAZI-Jews.

 

[TV and credit cards]

You tell him, lady. The Babushka battalion is coming and hell's coming with them.

 

[TSwizzle]

I believe she is asking the Russian soldiers to show proof of vaccination and why the hell aren't they wearing masks.

 

[Elixir]

Depending on if barbos thinks at the time

Uh, no... depending on what barbos' handlers think is most propitious for him to proclaim.
Next up: How Russia has no plans to invade Poland, but would be very much justified if they did.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So the Russian position is clear: Russia is going to unilaterally start a war.

If it becomes clear that NATO is taking over Ukraine then yes. That's what Putin implied in 2008.

barbos, this was one of your posts from next day in December. NATO wasn't taking over Ukraine. "Taking over" is pretty vague anyway and strong ties to Ukraine would not be taking it over, nor would that be justification for an invasion.

What do you mean NATO wasn't taking over Ukraine?
And It IS his justification for invasion. Why is hard to understand for you?

I thought it was to get rid of the Nazis???

It keeps changing.
Depending on if barbos thinks at the time if it is;
. To kill Ukrainian Russian brothers who reject Putin as their leader.
. To stop NATO from invading Russia.
. A new pogrom against Ukrainian Jews.
. A war against NAZI-Jews.

Putin is a NATO stooge who is pulling off the biglyest con on Russia ever. He must go!

 

[Elixir]

I'm surprised that US stocks are up today and by so much?? Of course there are 3 hours to go but DOW up 735 points?

And London and Germany both up more than 3%..

Yeah, the uncertainty level is down, now that Pootey's criminal assault is in process. Pootey made an offer to "talk", and for some reason that caused the ruble and the Russian markets to bounce along with the major US and European indices. When Pootey's "talk" yields shit on a stick, as it always does, they'll go back down.

Unless Putin has lost his mind, this likely ends with Ukraine.

It seems quite evident that he's not playing with a full deck. Also evident that he is positioning forces "exactly as one would" if he were planning to invade Poland or Lithuania to connect Kaliningrad to Mother Russia.

 

[ZiprHead]

You tell him, lady. The Babushka battalion is coming and hell's coming with them.

Wait 'til the black lady battalion from the US gets there. Then they're really gonna get it.

 

[Copernicus]

You tell him, lady. The Babushka battalion is coming and hell's coming with them.

The babushkas are everywhere in Russia, too. I love them. Nobody dares oppose them. I saw them take down passersby on the streets of Moscow in 1965. They are the toughest people on Earth. You saw the way that Russian soldier didn't know what to do when she got him in her sights. He knew he had to take the scolding and be thankful that it only lasted a few minutes.

ETA: And she was speaking totally in Russian, not Ukrainian. One of those Russian speakers that Putin is sending Russian troops to "protect" calling one of his soldiers a "fascist" and an "occupier".

 

[steve_bank]

Президент Украины Владимир Зеленский этой ночью заявил, что лидеры европейских стран не готовы предоставлять конкретику в вопросе вступления республики в НАТО.

«Мы остаемся наедине в защите нашего государства (...) Кто готов дать Украине гарантию вступления в НАТО? Честно, все боятся», — заявил он.

Зеленский добавил, что «якобы Россия хочет говорить о нейтральном статусе Украины».

«Я говорю всем партнерам нашей страны — сейчас важный момент, решается судьба нашей страны. Я спрашиваю у них, с нами ли они? Они отвечают, что с нами, но нас с собой в альянс брать не готовы», — возмутился украинский президент.

Wow, what a clown, what a stupid stupid clown this so-called president of Ukraine.
Country is being invaded by a major Nuclear State and he hopes for "emergency" NATO membership. This guy is deluded.

While I disagree with most things you are saying Barbos. You do highlight something regarding the news we are given in the west. Putin today is the Devil/Hitler. It's the bogeyman we scare children with. Any attack on or mistreatment of ethnic Russians are ignored in western press. Unless Russia/Russians are the bad guys the western press isn't interested. This effect has of course only been amplified by the introduction of social media.

It's pretty obvious that there's so much to the story of the invasion of Ukraine westerners aren't aware of. That said, Russia is a dictatorship with state controlled media. If westerners aren't given the full story, that's nothing compared to the drip drip drip of truth Russians are getting.

Russians are in the dark because of their idiot dictator and Westerners are in the dark because of our willful ignorance. It makes discussing this on an open international forum, very difficult. I'm right now dating a Ukrainian woman. Speaking to her, she thinks anybody with any power in that part of the world are probably corrupt and evil. In a situation like that, it's hard to pick sides.

I still think, just because of world peace we need to curb stomp Putin ASAP and return all seized land to Ukraine (including Crimea). And do it fast. Before China grabs Taiwan, when they think nobody is watching.

So Putin is really not that bod a guy and is unfairly treated in western media? The comparison to Hitler is obvious, just on a lessor scale.

Hitler used protection of Germans as a pretext to take the Sudetenland.


In his documentary eupemiscaly called history Oliver Stone painted Stlin as a victim of the west and it was the USA that forced Stalin to do what he did. Stalin apparently was not really a bad guy brutal dictator. When Stalin died the Russians themselves de-Stalinized Russia.

It has always been about oi and natural gas as power. Before Hitler turned on Russia Stalin and Hitler were buddies of sort.

The gas pipeline to Europe was intended to go around Ukraine. Way back when Ukraine was negotiating trade with the EU Putininterfered with Ukrainian energy.

Energy is the only product anyone wants from Russia.

Where did Germany get its oil before ww2?


It imported oil from the Soviet Union until the German invasion of that country in June 1941 and from Hungary and Romania (25 percent of its annual requirements by 1944) after April 1941 when these two countries became German allies prior to the Soviet invasion.Jun 26, 2019

 

[Toni]

My predictions regarding Putin have been spot on

I don't care about your predictions. I don't even care that much about my own predictions. I care for the facts and explanations.

Like after President Zelensky is murdered?

To be fair, the murder of Zelensky (and his family) does seem to be a goal of Putin.

 

[Toni]

Is anyone else a little afraid for barbos' safety?

 

[Elixir]

I strongly suspect that his success in Ukraine will embolden him to do whatever else he wants, assured that his nuclear threats will keep "NATO interference" with his expansion campaign down to hand wringing, hair pulling and slightly annoying sanctions. And from the way he has positioned his assets on the western front of Belarus, it looks like he want (at least) to connect Kaliningrad to the rest of his holdings.

 

[Copernicus]

And now the NATO Response Force has been activated for the first time and will be deployed in Eastern Europe. This is unfortunate, but Russia has begun massing a significant military force in Brest, 10 miles from the Polish border. One objective that Poland and Lithuania fear is that Russia could try to open up a land corridor to the isolated Kaliningrad (formerly K önigsberg) spur that Russia seized before WWII and still occupies. Putin would be crazy to attack NATO territory, but he isn't exactly behaving rationally these days.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Президент Украины Владимир Зеленский этой ночью заявил, что лидеры европейских стран не готовы предоставлять конкретику в вопросе вступления республики в НАТО.

«Мы остаемся наедине в защите нашего государства (...) Кто готов дать Украине гарантию вступления в НАТО? Честно, все боятся», — заявил он.

Зеленский добавил, что «якобы Россия хочет говорить о нейтральном статусе Украины».

«Я говорю всем партнерам нашей страны — сейчас важный момент, решается судьба нашей страны. Я спрашиваю у них, с нами ли они? Они отвечают, что с нами, но нас с собой в альянс брать не готовы», — возмутился украинский президент.

Wow, what a clown, what a stupid stupid clown this so-called president of Ukraine.
Country is being invaded by a major Nuclear State and he hopes for "emergency" NATO membership. This guy is deluded.

While I disagree with most things you are saying Barbos. You do highlight something regarding the news we are given in the west. Putin today is the Devil/Hitler. It's the bogeyman we scare children with. Any attack on or mistreatment of ethnic Russians are ignored in western press. Unless Russia/Russians are the bad guys the western press isn't interested. This effect has of course only been amplified by the introduction of social media.

It's pretty obvious that there's so much to the story of the invasion of Ukraine westerners aren't aware of. That said, Russia is a dictatorship with state controlled media. If westerners aren't given the full story, that's nothing compared to the drip drip drip of truth Russians are getting.

Russians are in the dark because of their idiot dictator and Westerners are in the dark because of our willful ignorance. It makes discussing this on an open international forum, very difficult. I'm right now dating a Ukrainian woman. Speaking to her, she thinks anybody with any power in that part of the world are probably corrupt and evil. In a situation like that, it's hard to pick sides.

I still think, just because of world peace we need to curb stomp Putin ASAP and return all seized land to Ukraine (including Crimea). And do it fast. Before China grabs Taiwan, when they think nobody is watching.

So Putin is really not that bod a guy and is unfairly treated in western media? The comparison to Hitler is obvious, just on a lessor scale.

Hitler used protection of Germans as a pretext to take the Sudetenland.


In his documentary eupemiscaly called history Oliver Stone painted Stlin as a victim of the west and it was the USA that forced Stalin to do what he did. Stalin apparently was not really a bad guy brutal dictator. When Stalin died the Russians themselves de-Stalinized Russia.

It has always been about oi and natural gas as power. Before Hitler turned on Russia Stalin and Hitler were buddies of sort.

The gas pipeline to Europe was intended to go around Ukraine. Way back when Ukraine was negotiating trade with the EU Putininterfered with Ukrainian energy.

Energy is the only product anyone wants from Russia.

Where did Germany get its oil before ww2?


It imported oil from the Soviet Union until the German invasion of that country in June 1941 and from Hungary and Romania (25 percent of its annual requirements by 1944) after April 1941 when these two countries became German allies prior to the Soviet invasion.Jun 26, 2019

Yes, exactly. He's evil. But not as evil as we are led to believe. Trump was the same. We in Europe had a way less nuanced picture of that guy. It still doesn't make Trump a great president

 

[Copernicus]

Is anyone else a little afraid for barbos' safety?

I wouldn't worry about him. He seems to be in a relatively remote area in Siberia and seems to be on board with the ruling authorities. However, I have noticed today that many Russian news sites are down, at least temporarily. They could be experiencing a cyberattack.

 

[Toni]

Президент Украины Владимир Зеленский этой ночью заявил, что лидеры европейских стран не готовы предоставлять конкретику в вопросе вступления республики в НАТО.

«Мы остаемся наедине в защите нашего государства (...) Кто готов дать Украине гарантию вступления в НАТО? Честно, все боятся», — заявил он.

Зеленский добавил, что «якобы Россия хочет говорить о нейтральном статусе Украины».

«Я говорю всем партнерам нашей страны — сейчас важный момент, решается судьба нашей страны. Я спрашиваю у них, с нами ли они? Они отвечают, что с нами, но нас с собой в альянс брать не готовы», — возмутился украинский президент.

Wow, what a clown, what a stupid stupid clown this so-called president of Ukraine.
Country is being invaded by a major Nuclear State and he hopes for "emergency" NATO membership. This guy is deluded.

While I disagree with most things you are saying Barbos. You do highlight something regarding the news we are given in the west. Putin today is the Devil/Hitler. It's the bogeyman we scare children with. Any attack on or mistreatment of ethnic Russians are ignored in western press. Unless Russia/Russians are the bad guys the western press isn't interested. This effect has of course only been amplified by the introduction of social media.

It's pretty obvious that there's so much to the story of the invasion of Ukraine westerners aren't aware of. That said, Russia is a dictatorship with state controlled media. If westerners aren't given the full story, that's nothing compared to the drip drip drip of truth Russians are getting.

Russians are in the dark because of their idiot dictator and Westerners are in the dark because of our willful ignorance. It makes discussing this on an open international forum, very difficult. I'm right now dating a Ukrainian woman. Speaking to her, she thinks anybody with any power in that part of the world are probably corrupt and evil. In a situation like that, it's hard to pick sides.

I still think, just because of world peace we need to curb stomp Putin ASAP and return all seized land to Ukraine (including Crimea). And do it fast. Before China grabs Taiwan, when they think nobody is watching.

So Putin is really not that bod a guy and is unfairly treated in western media? The comparison to Hitler is obvious, just on a lessor scale.

Hitler used protection of Germans as a pretext to take the Sudetenland.


In his documentary eupemiscaly called history Oliver Stone painted Stlin as a victim of the west and it was the USA that forced Stalin to do what he did. Stalin apparently was not really a bad guy brutal dictator. When Stalin died the Russians themselves de-Stalinized Russia.

It has always been about oi and natural gas as power. Before Hitler turned on Russia Stalin and Hitler were buddies of sort.

The gas pipeline to Europe was intended to go around Ukraine. Way back when Ukraine was negotiating trade with the EU Putininterfered with Ukrainian energy.

Energy is the only product anyone wants from Russia.

Where did Germany get its oil before ww2?


It imported oil from the Soviet Union until the German invasion of that country in June 1941 and from Hungary and Romania (25 percent of its annual requirements by 1944) after April 1941 when these two countries became German allies prior to the Soviet invasion.Jun 26, 2019

Yes, exactly. He's evil. But not as evil as we are led to believe. Trump was the same. We in Europe had a way less nuanced picture of that guy. It still doesn't make Trump a great president

No, Trump was/is more evil than you've been led to believe.