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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

Jayjay

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Remember how much fuss you made about your anti-tank rockets?
Well, here is a news for you, they are useless now, russian army do not use tanks to engage these idiots with javelins. They are using artillery from a safe distance of 30-40 km, there is simply no need for tanks.
Chickenshits murdering from afar.
As opposed to your chickenshit nazis who uses hostages to defend themselves.
False. The civilians in Azovstal for example were evacuated, and the defenders stayed back for some time afterwards. If they were using the civilians as hostages, why would they let them go? The civilians left in early May, while the last remaining fighters surrendered (or perished) in late May.
 

Jayjay

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It maybe working for Russia (though the progress is slow), but it also means that there is no infrastructure left behind.
Opposite is true. Saving infrastructure IS the reason for slow advancement.
Otherwise Ukraine would have no tunnels, roads, bridges, railroads and ports already.
In Severodonetsk and Mariupol, "saving infrastructure" obviously didn't happen. Satellite images show that the civilian infrastructure in Mariupol was utterly destroyed:


Before:

089d0000-0a00-0242-bfb6-08da1212c2e3_w1534_s_d2.jpg


After:

089d0000-0a00-0242-ce03-08da120fb418_w1534_s_d2.jpg


(source)

Russia may have spared some infrastructure for military purposes (railroads, bridges, etc.) but it doesn't give a shit about civilian infrastructure like apartment buildings, hospitals, or shopping malls.

Progress is measured in number of troops and military equipment Ukraine loses every day. At some point their army will simply quit.
That goes both ways. And actually there are three options:

1) Russia quits.
2) Ukraine quits.
3) An equilibrium, where both sides are too weak to attack, but strong enough to defend and prevent the other side from advancing.

Option 1 would be ideal, but unrealistic. The point of delivering western weapons is to try to achieve option 3 happens and Ukraine remains independent. If Ukraine were to run out of troops, ammo, or guns, there is nothing in Russia's way to rape the whole country.
 

ZiprHead

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That second photo is obviously a fake because of... reasons.
 

Jayjay

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After plan A of "march into Kyiv and be greeted as liberators" failed, Russia has regressed into tactics that it knows well: massive artillery shelling.
You sound bitter. Did you think Russia would quit after plan A?
Shelling is not that massive. They widely use Krasnopols and UAV for target pointing.
"Massive" dumb shelling is for more less large concentration of troops, again, with UAV correction.
Russia has enough shells to hit even targets that are not confirmed, just in case. Just because they're using Orlan-10 for targeting, doesn't mean they are so strapped that they have to be stingy about firing almost constantly.

And plan A was not that bad. It was basically repeat of Crimean operation - nobody would have died. Unfortunately they miscalculated amount of nazi terrorists willing to die in the ukrainian army at that time. So Putin replaced people behind plan A with people from Syrian campaign and it all got better.
What a brilliant idea. If Stalin had just handed the keys to Leningrad and Stalingrad to mr. Hitler, those sieges could have been avoided and nobody would have died! :rolleyes:

Besides, we know from Bucha and other towns in the north, that just because they didn't fight back, didn't stop Russia from going door to door and kill people anyway. We know from witnesses who've managed to escape that exactly the same thing happened (and is still happening) in places that Russia currently occupies, like Mariupol, Izyum, or even Kherson, but obviously, there is less information getting out from Russian-occupied territories. The only one to be blamed for the deaths is the aggressor, not the defender.
 

Jayjay

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It maybe working for Russia (though the progress is slow), but it also means that there is no infrastructure left behind. The "liberation" of Severodonetsk is a joke, when the entire city is reduced to a rubble first by Russian artillery, and then into a finer grained rubble by Ukrainian counter-artillery. Just like Mariupol, really... a city that now has a cholera problem because of all the dead bodies.

Those who survive, end up tortured in basements, raped, or moved to "filtration camps". What a glorious victory.
You overdosed on western propaganda.
No, I'm overdosed on reality. Although given how bleak the reality is, that makes me probably worse off.

Of course we can't get accurate numbers out of Russian-controlled areas, but everyone who has managed to escape tells the same story of mass graves, and dead bodies everywhere. Ukrainian officials are saying that 10-20k civilians are dead just in Mariupol, and that's probably in the ballpark. As for cholera, it's not confirmed, but it's based on the conditions and the fact that the city has had cholera outbreaks before.
 

Jayjay

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Remember how much fuss you made about your anti-tank rockets?
Well, here is a news for you, they are useless now, russian army do not use tanks to engage these idiots with javelins. They are using artillery from a safe distance of 30-40 km, there is simply no need for tanks.
Chickenshits murdering from afar.
As opposed to your chickenshit nazis who uses hostages to defend themselves.
Yeah, defend. Because they aren't the attackers. Because Russia is the attacker. And Russia has given no good reason to attack. Russia just wants to steal the land and kill the people. If Ukraine handed over all their "nazis" today would Russia go home? No, Because Russia isn't there for "nazis." They never were. Only a self-felating idiot would believe that. Russia is there to kill and steal.

Russia and all the Russian scumbags who are complicit in her inhumane crimes are lowlife shitburgers who are welcome to enjoy a urine shower from me then go gargle the diarrhea from a swarm of Maruipol rats.
No need to be so diplomatic; tell us how you really feel. :sneaky:

Sometimes evil wins. To me it seems like after Russia's initial plan failed, there was a short window when it was regrouping, and that's when it briefly looked like Ukraine might be able to turn the tide of the war: the sinking of Moskva, pushing Russia away from artillery range of Kharkiv, stalling of Russian pincer south of Izyum, destroying pontoon bridges and Russian battalion in Bilohorivka were all good news, that may have lulled everyone into ignoring the fact that Russian artillery still outnumbers Ukrainians 10-to-1 and it is very good at using it.

Now that Ukraine has run out of Soviet stock of weapons and is completely reliant on western arms, and is facing maybe 100-200 deaths per day, the situation has dramatically deteriorated. Ukraine is unlikely to be able to take back any of the already-occupied territory, and will likely have to withdraw from Donetsk with massive casualties. And then what? Russia isn't going to stop at Donetsk, it will then move its focus to west. Russia can't attack everywhere at once; but it has shown in the past months that when it concentrates its forces in one place, it can make slow incremental gains and chew away Ukrainian defenses.
 

Jayjay

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Yeah, defend. Because they aren't the attackers
True, they are no longer attackers. But before that they has been attackers for 8 years. Now they are getting what they deserved.
No, they haven't. Russia invaded Ukraine, and Ukraine was defending itself. If Russian separatist puppets fire at Ukraine, it's perfectly okay for them to fire back.
 

Jayjay

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Russia and all the Russian scumbags who are complicit in her inhumane crimes are lowlife shitburgers who are welcome to enjoy a urine shower from me then go gargle the diarrhea from a swarm of Maruipol rats
Scambags are ukrainian nazis and western neocons who attacked Russia.
Nobody attacked Russia. Russia attacked Ukraine by taking Crimea and Donbas in 2014. Ukraine has been fighting on its own soil since then, and even now has only made a few strikes against military targets in Belgorod region.
 

ZiprHead

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Russian media say the threat to Ukrainian civilians doesn't come from the Russian armed forces, it comes from Ukrainian nationalists using civilians as human shields.
Sound familiar?

And now a new law has passed through the Russian Parliament that means people who spread "fake" information about Russia's military forces could be jailed for up to 15 years.
 

scombrid

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Some Russian troops are refusing to return to fight in Ukraine because of their experiences on the front line at the start of the invasion, according to Russian human rights lawyers and activists. The BBC has been speaking to one such soldier.
"I don't want to go [back to Ukraine] to kill and be killed," says Sergey - not his real name - who spent five weeks fighting in Ukraine earlier this year.
He is now home in Russia, having taken legal advice to avoid being sent back to the front line. Sergey is just one of hundreds of Russian soldiers understood to have been seeking such advice.
Sergey says he is traumatised by his experience in Ukraine.
"I had thought that we were the Russian army, the most super-duper in the world," says the young man bitterly. Instead they were expected to operate without even basic equipment, such as night vision devices, he says.
"We were like blind kittens. I'm shocked by our army. It wouldn't cost much to equip us. Why wasn't it done?"
A lawyer told Sergey and two like-minded colleagues to return their arms and go back to their unit's headquarters - where they should file a letter explaining that they were "morally and psychologically exhausted" and could not continue fighting in Ukraine.
Sergey was told that returning to the unit was important because simply leaving could be interpreted as desertion, which can result in a two-year sentence in a disciplinary battalion.
Army commanders try to intimidate contract soldiers into staying with their units, according to Russian human rights lawyer Alexei Tabalov. But he stresses that Russian military law does include clauses which allow soldiers to refuse to fight if they don't want to.
Human rights activist Sergei Krivenko says he is not aware of any prosecutions of those refusing to return to the front.
One commander in northern Russia requested a criminal case be brought against his subordinate who would not return to Ukraine, but a military prosecutor refused to proceed, according to documents seen by the BBC. Such an action would be "premature" without having assessed the harm to the military service he was involved in, the prosecutor said.
And there is no guarantee that more prosecutions might not emerge in the future.
Soldiers like Sergey - reluctant to return to the front line - are not unusual, according to Ruslan Leviev, the editor of Conflict Intelligence Team, a media project investigating the experiences of the Russian military in Ukraine through confidential interviews and open source material.
Leviev says his team estimates a sizeable minority of the Russian contract soldiers sent to Ukraine to fight in the initial invasion refused to go back again.
Russian commenters commented on that. This BBC propaganda piece appeared in response to a massive flux of ukrainian deserters where whole regiments started quitting and very publicly so. With youtube video explanations why they are doing so (many thanks to Elon Musk :) )
Sorry man, I am not buying anonymous unconfirmed garbage from British State news which was caught lying multiple times. I am buying youtube videos of ukrainian soldiers.
I learned about chemtrails and HAARP being used to control the weather and directed energy weapons being used to start forest fires and knock over buildings on YouTube. YouTube is definitely the go-to place for accurate twoof.
 

bilby

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Some Russian troops are refusing to return to fight in Ukraine because of their experiences on the front line at the start of the invasion, according to Russian human rights lawyers and activists. The BBC has been speaking to one such soldier.
"I don't want to go [back to Ukraine] to kill and be killed," says Sergey - not his real name - who spent five weeks fighting in Ukraine earlier this year.
He is now home in Russia, having taken legal advice to avoid being sent back to the front line. Sergey is just one of hundreds of Russian soldiers understood to have been seeking such advice.
Sergey says he is traumatised by his experience in Ukraine.
"I had thought that we were the Russian army, the most super-duper in the world," says the young man bitterly. Instead they were expected to operate without even basic equipment, such as night vision devices, he says.
"We were like blind kittens. I'm shocked by our army. It wouldn't cost much to equip us. Why wasn't it done?"
A lawyer told Sergey and two like-minded colleagues to return their arms and go back to their unit's headquarters - where they should file a letter explaining that they were "morally and psychologically exhausted" and could not continue fighting in Ukraine.
Sergey was told that returning to the unit was important because simply leaving could be interpreted as desertion, which can result in a two-year sentence in a disciplinary battalion.
Army commanders try to intimidate contract soldiers into staying with their units, according to Russian human rights lawyer Alexei Tabalov. But he stresses that Russian military law does include clauses which allow soldiers to refuse to fight if they don't want to.
Human rights activist Sergei Krivenko says he is not aware of any prosecutions of those refusing to return to the front.
One commander in northern Russia requested a criminal case be brought against his subordinate who would not return to Ukraine, but a military prosecutor refused to proceed, according to documents seen by the BBC. Such an action would be "premature" without having assessed the harm to the military service he was involved in, the prosecutor said.
And there is no guarantee that more prosecutions might not emerge in the future.
Soldiers like Sergey - reluctant to return to the front line - are not unusual, according to Ruslan Leviev, the editor of Conflict Intelligence Team, a media project investigating the experiences of the Russian military in Ukraine through confidential interviews and open source material.
Leviev says his team estimates a sizeable minority of the Russian contract soldiers sent to Ukraine to fight in the initial invasion refused to go back again.
Russian commenters commented on that. This BBC propaganda piece appeared in response to a massive flux of ukrainian deserters where whole regiments started quitting and very publicly so. With youtube video explanations why they are doing so (many thanks to Elon Musk :) )
Sorry man, I am not buying anonymous unconfirmed garbage from British State news which was caught lying multiple times. I am buying youtube videos of ukrainian soldiers.
I learned about chemtrails and HAARP being used to control the weather and directed energy weapons being used to start forest fires and knock over buildings on YouTube. YouTube is definitely the go-to place for accurate twoof.
Pretty much the easiest and quickest way to identify a loon with zero grip on reality is to note whether they prefer YouTube over the BBC as a source of information.

The BBC has deteriorated a lot since it’s heyday. But it still has a very long way to fall before it gets close to the cesspool of nonsense and lies that YouTube inhabits.
 

ZiprHead

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Ukraine says that the Russian army has lost so many soldiers that it has run out of room to store their dead in the occupied city of Melitopol.

A press release from the intelligence division of the Ukrainian defense ministry said on Thursday that the Russians were looking for "additional refrigerators" to store the bodies of their dead soldiers after the Russians ran out of space in a meat-packing plant-turned-morgue.

"The occupation administration of Melitopol is urgently looking for additional freezers and industrial refrigerators. It is known that the city meat-packing plant, which was converted into a morgue, is already completely filled with the bodies of the killed occupiers and can no longer accept more," read the Ukrainian defense ministry's statement.
 

Elixir

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Pretty much the easiest and quickest way to identify a loon with zero grip on reality is to note whether they prefer YouTube over the BBC as a source of information.

It’s rather humorous (in a tragicomic way) how the Russian shill quaintly believes that westerners respect YouTube above all sources, and especially the rich ground of the comments sections. It evokes images of Balki from Perfect Strangers.
 

Copernicus

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After three months, Kyiv stands! Finland and Sweden joining Nato. Most of Ukraine now fully united against Russia
It is spelled "Kiev". And it only stands because Russia don't Blitzkrieg, there is no rush.

Until you conquer it, you don’t get to say how it’s spelled.

Ironically, the English spelling is based on a transliteration of the Cyrillic spelling, which is Київ in Ukrainian and Киев in Russian. The Ukrainian government wants to control that transliteration, since it also affects the spelling of other place names in English, the international lingua franca in modern times. In the Soviet era, even though Ukrainian was designated as an official language of the Soviet Republic, Russian spelling was used for the transliteration. Under the tsars, Ukrainian had been suppressed in eastern Ukraine and the Russian language was used for the standard place names. Under the modern Ukrainian government, which promotes Ukrainian as the official language, the Ukrainian transliteration is official even for areas that are predominately Russian speaking. Kyiv itself is predominately Russian speaking, as is Odesa (Odessa in Russian transliteration). If Russia had succeeded in conquering Ukraine, the Russian government would install a puppet regime that would try to adopt Russian place names even for predominately Ukrainian-speaking areas. In the end, it is all about English, because that is the global international standard of communication.
 

Loren Pechtel

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It maybe working for Russia (though the progress is slow), but it also means that there is no infrastructure left behind.
Opposite is true. Saving infrastructure IS the reason for slow advancement.
Otherwise Ukraine would have no tunnels, roads, bridges, railroads and ports already.
Progress is measured in number of troops and military equipment Ukraine loses every day. At some point their army will simply quit.
Or the Russian military will turn on it's masters.
 

barbos

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Yeah, defend. Because they aren't the attackers
True, they are no longer attackers. But before that they has been attackers for 8 years. Now they are getting what they deserved.
None of this would have happened had Russia not decided to invade twice.
None of this would have happened had USA not decided to conduct a nazi coup in Ukraine and use them as a Bullwark against Russia.
 

barbos

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By the way, the West is starting to react differently with these talks about "Ukraine" giving up territories. Although, The Clown President is not deterred in his desire to fight till last ukrainian.
Ukro-wehrmacht employ interesting tactics of blowing up their own bridges to prevent retreat/supply of their troops.
 

zorq

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Barbos thinks this whole thing was caused by Victoria Nuland who managed to convince an entire country to kick it's Russian puppet out of office by using her super power of ... handing out cookies to protesters.

I hear they weren't even home-made cookies.

But it was enough to make Russia's puppet run for the hills.

LOL. Barbos lives in a fantasy land.
 

barbos

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Barbos thinks this whole thing was caused by Victoria Nuland who managed to convince an entire country to kick it's Russian puppet out of office by using her super power of ... handing out cookies to protesters.

I hear they weren't even home-made cookies.

But it was enough to make Russia's puppet run for the hills.

LOL. Barbos lives in a fantasy land.
Sure, Mearsheimer and I live in a fantasy world. And you who thinks that Ukraine is winning live in real world, sure.
 

Patooka

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They did, they totally did.
Americans can't even agree rifles in primary schools are a fucking bad idea. And you would have me believe that they orchestrated a coup, specifically with Nazis and then swept it under the carpet so only Russian sources know about it.

That's the hill you want to die on. I don't have a response.
 

barbos

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They did, they totally did.
Americans can't even agree rifles in primary schools are a fucking bad idea. And you would have me believe that they orchestrated a coup, specifically with Nazis and then swept it under the carpet so only Russian sources know about it.

That's the hill you want to die on. I don't have a response.
Yes, americans can't agree on rifles but they all (republicans&democrats) agree on this Russia-Ukraine thing.
So yeah, you totally united in your hatred of Russia as a country/state and support of nazis (yes your politicians on record saying "nazis? so what?")

Having said that, I should remind you that you (the West) are alone in this.
Nobody besides Western establishment (bought by MIC) supports your aggression against Russia.
Not Latin America, not Asia, not Africa, not even Arab countries. Not even freaking Israel.

So it's a hill you are dying on.
As for the rifles, then most americans are actually agree on something about guns, it's just your politicians who are paid by gun lobby to do nothing and keep gun makers happy. In fact, if it was not for MIC lobby, americans would not have cared about Ukraine at all and Ukraine would still be a whole country and nobody would even have invaded it.
 
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Patooka

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Yes, americans can't agree on rifles but they all (republicans&democrats) agree on this Russia-Ukraine thing.

So your conspiracy theory relies on Democrats and Republicans being in unanimous agreement. It fails the smell test on that alone.

Having said that, I should remind you that you (the West) are alone in this.
Nobody besides Western establishment (bought by MIC) supports your aggression against Russia.

Uh huh. Countries like Switzerland, a nation famous for not having any foreign policy opinions are condemning Russia's invasion. You having the chutzpah to argue that this is unprovoked "aggression against Russia" is so farcical you are sounding like an abusing spouse telling their partner, "look what you made me do". Nobody is buying it.

Not Latin America, not Asia, not Africa, not even Arab countries. Not even freaking Israel.

The UNGA resolution consisted of 193 countries. 5 voted in support of Russia. Nobody is buying this bullshit about Nazis who for some reason are totally fine with a Jew being President. Your argument is so bad faith it is literally hurting your credibility for everything else.
 

barbos

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Yes, americans can't agree on rifles but they all (republicans&democrats) agree on this Russia-Ukraine thing.

So your conspiracy theory relies on Democrats and Republicans being in unanimous agreement. It fails the smell test on that alone.
That's not a theory, let alone conspiracy theory.
Having said that, I should remind you that you (the West) are alone in this.
Nobody besides Western establishment (bought by MIC) supports your aggression against Russia.

Uh huh. Countries like Switzerland, a nation famous for not having any foreign policy opinions are condemning Russia's invasion. You having the chutzpah to argue that this is unprovoked "aggression against Russia" is so farcical you are sounding like an abusing spouse telling their partner, "look what you made me do". Nobody is buying it.
Well, farcical is you having chutzpah to claim that even Westen Media is united in their support of nazis. It's true that MSM supports nazis. But a lot of independent journalists are not. They openlyu call nazis a nazi. It's good thing you have free (from government interference) press. It's just it's not free from oligarch interference.


Not Latin America, not Asia, not Africa, not even Arab countries. Not even freaking Israel.

The UNGA resolution consisted of 193 countries. 5 voted in support of Russia. Nobody is buying this bullshit about Nazis who for some reason are totally fine with a Jew being President. Your argument is so bad faith it is literally hurting your credibility for everything else.
You are alone. That's why US sends out threatening letters to African countries.
Nobody supports garbage you are spewing there. They are aware of american wrath though.
 

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Hey barbos, I gave a cookie to a guy who said he is from the Philippines last week. When do you think Putin will invade? Lol.

Russian propaganda is so fucking stupid. Who could believe this shit?
 

Patooka

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Russian propaganda is so fucking stupid. Who could believe this shit?
I do. Every day on the train to work, I see graffiti of swastikas on old warehouses near Strathfield. Clearly Putin is going to invade Australia next.
 

barbos

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Russian propaganda is so fucking stupid. Who could believe this shit?
....... American observers?
You have not seen ukrainian propaganda. They convinced the whole "nation" that Yury Gagarin was ...... ukrainian.
That's a level of stupidity simply unreachable.

Funny thing happened after I had watched few chat roulette videos between that russsian "barbarian" and ukrainian "intellectuals". Youtubes with Schizophrenia patients started to appear in recomendations :)

For these who still have not learned russian/ukrainian. The russian barbarian is a well informed in current events and history who talks to victims of 30 years of ukrainian propaganda. There are others like him too. But one thing which strikes me most that
pro-russian russians are pretty normal and educated people, whereas pro-ukraine ukrainians are almost invariably idiots who .... literally think that Gagarin was an ukrainian (spoiler, he was not, in fact, Soviet leaders made sure that he WAS russian and (!!!) good looking)
 
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zorq

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Barbos is trying to convince us he isn't stupid by telling us that he forms political opinions by using "chat roulette." LOL.

And the Youtube algorithm thinks he's got schizophrenia! LOL.

Tell us more barbos! Tell us how you know you aren't contaminated by Russian propaganda because you refuse to listen to career journalists. Only "independant journalists" who broadcast on "chat roulette" from their mother's basement are good enough for you!
 

barbos

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Barbos is trying to convince us he isn't stupid by telling us that he forms political opinions by using "chat roulette." LOL.
Well, I don't but it confirms it rather well. Ukrainian nazis and their suporters are utter degenerates. It's an established fact that Ukraine left to their own devices for 30 years devolved into nationalist shithole.

And you apparently believe and form your opinion from reports of your government and main stream media.
 
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steve_bank

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Putin going back to Peter the Great is claiming Ukraine is Russia. Estonia is part of that. Lithuania's
independence like Ukraine is talked of being withdrawn. Russian politician making reference to Finland.

In the report Russians are getting in lock step of propaganda. The economy is stabilizing and sanctions are not going to do nything to deter.

Perhaps the west's limited response will turn out to be an appeasement that does not work.

I hope the cumming generations of politicians here and in the west are up to the tasks.






Peter the Great (Russian: Пётр Вели́кий, tr. Pyotr Velíkiy, IPA: [ˈpʲɵtr vʲɪˈlʲikʲɪj]), Peter I or Pyotr Alekséyevich (Russian: Пётр Алексе́евич, IPA: [ˈpʲɵtr ɐlʲɪˈksʲejɪvʲɪtɕ]; 9 June [O.S. 30 May] 1672 – 8 February [O.S. 28 January] 1725)[note 2] was a monarch of the Tsardom of Russia and later the Russian Empire from 7 May [O.S. 27 April] 1682 until his death in 1725, jointly ruling before 1696 with his elder half-brother, Ivan V. Under his reign, Russia was modernised and grew into a European power.

Through a number of successful wars, he captured ports at Azov and the Baltic Sea, laying the groundwork for the Imperial Russian Navy, ending uncontested Swedish supremacy in the Baltic and beginning the Tsardom's expansion into a much larger empire that became a major European power. He led a cultural revolution that replaced some of the traditionalist and medieval social and political systems with ones that were modern, scientific, Westernised and based on the Enlightenment.[1] Peter's reforms had a lasting impact on Russia, and many institutions of the Russian government trace their origins to his reign. He adopted the title of Emperor in place of the old title of Tsar in 1721, and founded and developed the city of Saint Petersburg, which remained the capital of Russia until 1918.

However, the formation of local elites domestically was not his main priority, and the first Russian university—Saint Petersburg State University—was founded only a year before his death, in 1724. The second one, Moscow State University, was founded 30 years after his death, during the reign of his daughter Elizabeth.
 

Copernicus

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Putin going back to Peter the Great is claiming Ukraine is Russia. Estonia is part of that. Lithuania's
independence like Ukraine is talked of being withdrawn. Russian politician making reference to Finland...

Technically, the claim goes back to the 15th century, after the fall of "Tsargrad" (Constantinople or "Caesar City") to the Ottoman Turks. Ivan IV became Tsar and began to expand Russian territory. The narrative then was that Moscow would be the "Third Rome" and that the Tsar was Tsar of "all the Russias", which included Orthodox areas of Ruthenia--Ukraine and Belarus, which had been part of the Kievan Rus'. Peter I was the tsar that fought expansionist wars to start gobbling up territory that was an integral part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Belarussian had even been the official court language for a time when the Commonwealth was first established and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania merged with Poland to form it. Russia and Sweden battled over that territory and completely devastated the Commonwealth, leaving it as easy pickings for a later Catherine the Great to gobble up the lion's share of the Commonwealth for the Russian Empire.
 

steve_bank

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China also sees itself as returning to past empires.

Western liberal democracy may end up being a short lived flash in the pan.
 

Gun Nut

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Barbos thinks this whole thing was caused by Victoria Nuland who managed to convince an entire country to kick it's Russian puppet out of office by using her super power of ... handing out cookies to protesters.

I hear they weren't even home-made cookies.

But it was enough to make Russia's puppet run for the hills.

LOL. Barbos lives in a fantasy land.
Sure, Mearsheimer and I live in a fantasy world. And you who thinks that Ukraine is winning live in real world, sure.
"winning" is relative. Russian reputation is shit on the bottom of my shoe now that they have demonstrated the best they can do. Russia's reputation was that they should have just steamrolled over Ukraine with little effort and the entire country would have been "secured" in a matter of 1 or 2 weeks.
That they have so pitifully failed to live up to their reputation is proof that Russia is over. I give them 4 years to live. After that it will be known as EUUSU (European Union-United States of Ukraine).
They will get their Blue Jeans, American 80's movies, and McDonnalds back, Puppy Poopy will cry himself to sleep every night in Syberia, and write love letters to his boyfriend Donald.
Ya... "winning".
 

Elixir

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Barbos thinks this whole thing was caused by Victoria Nuland who managed to convince an entire country to kick it's Russian puppet out of office by using her super power of ... handing out cookies to protesters.

I hear they weren't even home-made cookies.

But it was enough to make Russia's puppet run for the hills.

LOL. Barbos lives in a fantasy land.
Sure, Mearsheimer and I live in a fantasy world. And you who thinks that Ukraine is winning live in real world, sure.
"winning" is relative. Russian reputation is shit on the bottom of my shoe now that they have demonstrated the best they can do. Russia's reputation was that they should have just steamrolled over Ukraine with little effort and the entire country would have been "secured" in a matter of 1 or 2 weeks.
That they have so pitifully failed to live up to their reputation is proof that Russia is over. I give them 4 years to live. After that it will be known as EUUSU (European Union-United States of Ukraine).
They will get their Blue Jeans, American 80's movies, and McDonnalds back, Puppy Poopy will cry himself to sleep every night in Syberia, and write love letters to his boyfriend Donald.
Ya... "winning".
Yes, Putler’s forces morphed from the second greatest army on earth into the second greatest army in Ukraine, in less than a week.
 
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