• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

But Russia having a larger population than the US but a smaller GDP than Canada is an abject failure for a country that was once a technological leader.
:facepalm:
Sorry, I had to come out from my exile to quote this for history.

These are the people I am trying to educate. This planet is doomed.
I don't have good theories on that, I just don't.

Nothing like quoting to say nothing.
You still don't get it?????
:double facepalm:
Barbos isn't explaining what the problem is. Crazyfingers made a mistake in saying that Russia has a larger population than the US. The Russian population is less than half (144 million) of the US (330 million). Canada has a much smaller population (38 million). So crazyfinger's overall point about Russia's GDP (whichever number one uses for that) is still correct. BTW, let's not forget that a large portion of the Russian economy is fueled by criminal black market transactions.
 
And Barbos made a mistake in being a Putin sock puppet.
 
Poland is a NATO member. If NATO does not quickly and forcefully respond with military action (as per the requirements of NATO membership), then there is no point to NATO.

I would hope that NATO would act to not only repel Russian forces from Poland, but do so in a manner that inflicts maximum losses, and forces Russian retreat from Ukraine as well.
 
Unless he has gone totally off his rocker, which is possible, he will not move against any NATO nation. If he does, I believe the Russian military would depose him.
I doubt that the Russian military would do anything other than that dictated by Putin. Putin rules by fear. Anyone in a leadership position who opposes him is eliminated. Soldiers follow orders and the higher ranking officers who may silently oppose Putin wouldn't dare overtly express disagreement... They are well aware of what happens to those who do.
Putin is backed by the military and the oligarchs, and he is the lead oligarch. The Russian military is well aware of the dire consequences of attacking NATO, and the oligarchs do not want to see all the wealth and assets that they looted from the Russian people go up in mushroom clouds. Even before this debacle began, there were press reports of dissension in the Russian military over any Ukraine invasion. Putin is not invincible.
Putin controls the military and oligarchs. It is quite similar to Kim in N. Korea. Kim controls the military and the elite. Kim gives the command and no general dares to object.
The military has the guns, not Putin. There have been plenty of strongmen deposed by their militaries.
Yes there have been military coups. But the effective ones are against dictators that didn't instill sufficient fear in their generals, only in the civilians. The Kim regime has been damn effective for three generations now at keeping their military completely cowed because they are ruthless. Surely there have been Korean generals that wanted to oust the Kims but were too fucking fearful. Putin seems to be almost, if not more, as ruthless as Kim.
 
Even granted that this is true, an attack on NATO is an entirely different scenario. It would be tantamount to ordering suicide. Even if a nuclear exchange could be avoided, NATO’s forces are far more numerous and superior to Putin’s army of low-morale conscripts. Anyway, even if he were contemplating the insane idea of an attack on NATO, he is LOOOONG way from finishing off Ukraine, where reports continue to surface of major casualities inflicted on the Russians and the fact that so far he has achieved none of his major objectives.
 
But Russia having a larger population than the US but a smaller GDP than Canada is an abject failure for a country that was once a technological leader.
:facepalm:
Sorry, I had to come out from my exile to quote this for history.

These are the people I am trying to educate. This planet is doomed.
I don't have good theories on that, I just don't.

Nothing like quoting to say nothing.
You still don't get it?????
:double facepalm:
Barbos isn't explaining what the problem is. Crazyfingers made a mistake in saying that Russia has a larger population than the US. The Russian population is less than half (144 million) of the US (330 million). Canada has a much smaller population (38 million). So crazyfinger's overall point about Russia's GDP (whichever number one uses for that) is still correct. BTW, let's not forget that a large portion of the Russian economy is fueled by criminal black market transactions.
I was going from memory. I was probably going on what I remember when it was still the USSR.
 
But Russia having a larger population than the US but a smaller GDP than Canada is an abject failure for a country that was once a technological leader.
:facepalm:
Sorry, I had to come out from my exile to quote this for history.

These are the people I am trying to educate. This planet is doomed.
I don't have good theories on that, I just don't.

Nothing like quoting to say nothing.
You still don't get it?????
:double facepalm:
Barbos isn't explaining what the problem is. Crazyfingers made a mistake in saying that Russia has a larger population than the US. The Russian population is less than half (144 million) of the US (330 million). Canada has a much smaller population (38 million). So crazyfinger's overall point about Russia's GDP (whichever number one uses for that) is still correct. BTW, let's not forget that a large portion of the Russian economy is fueled by criminal black market transactions.
I was going from memory. I was probably going on what I remember when it was still the USSR.
This is correct. The USSR had a larger population than the US.
 
Right Wing Watch on Twitter: "Lauren Witzke, the Delaware GOP's candidate for Senate in 2020, has nothing but praise for Putin and "his Christian nationalist nation": "I identify more with Putin's Christian values than I do with Joe Biden." (vid link)" / Twitter

On the eve of war, Tucker Carlson defended Putin. Now he's backpedaling
He's running scared, it seems to me.
Instead, Carlson used Wednesday's show to wave the flag not for the U.S. or its suffering ally Ukraine, but for Putin. Questioning why we should hate the autocratic and isolated Russian ruler, the "Tucker Carlson Tonight" host discounted Ukraine as “a pure client state of the United States State Department.”

That same evening, Ingraham blamed the conflict on the “weakness and the incompetence” of the Biden administration, a position echoed by a number of Republican elected officials, and called Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelensky's desperate appeal for Putin to stop the attack a “pathetic display." You read that correctly. She was mocking a last-ditch effort to save lives and country.

Characterizing the Russian advance as a "border dispute," Carlson preferred to lay blame on the opposition: Democrats had conditioned folks "to hate Putin," he said, going so far as to urge his viewers to rethink their feelings about good ol' Vlad: "Has Putin ever called me a racist? Has he threatened to get me fired for disagreeing with him? Has he shipped every middle-class job in my town to Russia? Did he manufacture a worldwide pandemic that wrecked my business and kept me indoors for two years? Is he teaching my children to embrace racial discrimination? Is he making fentanyl? Is he trying to snuff out Christianity?"

Another article - Fox News' Tucker Carlson asks if ‘Putin eats dogs’ while questioning why Russian president is disliked - noted

Tucker Carlson on Twitter: "Why do Democrats want you to hate Putin? Has Putin shipped every middle class job in your town to Russia? Did he manufacture a worldwide pandemic that wrecked your business? Is he teaching your kids to embrace racial discrimination? Is he making fentanyl? Does he eat dogs? (vid link)" / Twitter

Eating dogs? That seems like a swipe against China.
 
And Barbos made a mistake in being a Putin sock puppet.
I'm not so sure that I would call it that. You don't see a lot of self-admitted Russians bloviating in online discussion boards like this one. Barbos has been with us a long time--since 2005--and he hasn't always been quite as extreme as he appears now, while Russia is still in the throes of invading its neighbors. It seems clear to me that he didn't really expect to find himself having to defend his earlier claims and predictions that now lie in shambles, and he often seems to stumble around a lot trying to find leverage. Focusing on small errors like misstated population sizes is one way for the guy to try to avoid paying attention to the larger points people are making. And there is always the Mearsheimer hobby horse to bludgeon when he can't think of any other deflection.
 
On the eve of war, Tucker Carlson defended Putin. Now he's backpedaling
By primetime Thursday, Carlson had changed his tune: “Vladimir Putin started this war," he said. "He is to blame tonight for what we’re seeing tonight in the Ukraine.” Then he quickly pivoted. “The question is ... how should the United States respond to what he has done? Within minutes of the outbreak of the war last night the usual liars on television began leveraging this tragedy for partisan political gain ... it’s contemptible. But we're going to ignore that tonight and talk about what matters.”
 
On the eve of war, Tucker Carlson defended Putin. Now he's backpedaling
By primetime Thursday, Carlson had changed his tune: “Vladimir Putin started this war," he said. "He is to blame tonight for what we’re seeing tonight in the Ukraine.” Then he quickly pivoted. “The question is ... how should the United States respond to what he has done? Within minutes of the outbreak of the war last night the usual liars on television began leveraging this tragedy for partisan political gain ... it’s contemptible. But we're going to ignore that tonight and talk about what matters.”

A comically ironic admission by Tucker Carlson, who just demonstrated its truth. He went on to leverage the tragedy for partisan political gain, and it was contemptible.
 
Business brisk at Kyiv gun shops as Ukrainians rush to buy arms

Threat of invasion, and draft law giving Ukrainians permission to carry firearms, leads to long queues inside weapons stores

It's going to suck to be an occupying Russian soldier if form holds. :(

The Eastern Ukrainian pro-Russians will suffer heavily for Pootie's land grab. Think Northern Ireland but worse.

The remnants of Ukraine will become like Switzerland. Every trustworthy Ukrainian between 16 and 60 armed, trained and Ukraine a land of bunkers and well dug in depots and and weapon factories.
That's assuming whatever country remains is allowed to stay a functioning state. It'll be in shambles economically, constantly being sabotaged by Russian meddling and hybrid warfare, still dependent on Russian gas, and having to deal with influx of millions of refugees. I think this is Putin's goal: annex everything of value, and let Ukraine have some bantustan in constant brink of collapse.
 
Stalin made a bargain with Hityler in part for getting a piece of Polan and Finland he thought was Russian. We know how that ended. up.
The USSR gained a piece of Finland in 1940 and of Poland in 1941. Both pieces remained in its possession after WWII.
Yes, they got piece of Finland BEFORE war, not after.
And piece of Poland they got BEFORE the war, was not really a piece of Poland but a piece of Russia they lost or rather left in WW1.
Bullshit. Stalin started the war to grab that land. That hardly counts as getting something "before" the war. And since your granpa fought in that war, you should know that USSR lost territory during the winter war, and only gained it back later in the continuation war and the peace treaty after the war.

Some of us had family members living in Poland when Russia invaded.
Russia did not invade Poland, Russia took back its own land they lost in WW1.
That still counts as an invasion. Just because Stalin (or Putin) thinks that he's entitled to some plot of land, doesn't mean he actually is.
 
But Russia having a larger population than the US but a smaller GDP than Canada is an abject failure for a country that was once a technological leader.
:facepalm:
Sorry, I had to come out from my exile to quote this for history.

These are the people I am trying to educate. This planet is doomed.
I don't have good theories on that, I just don't.
Well, Russia still has a GDP per capita that is about 1/4 that in Canada.

Maybe at some point, it'll become more clear that the Russian leadership has done nothing but disservice to the general Russian population for over 100 years and the blame should be placed on them, not windmills.


Russia 144 millions.
Ukraine 44.5 millions

It is going to be expensive holding Ukraine down. The GDP of Russia is not great. And won't be able to support an occupation of Ukraine for long. The idea that Russia could take on Poland, and the Baltics and make it pay is madness. Many of these Russian soldiers are punk draftees, young, poorly trained, and as usual with Russia, just numerous cannon fodder at best. To go further than this for greater adventures will take a far greater effort and militarization of Russia. Which Russia cannot afford long term.

It will all end up like the last days of the USSR, a mad scramble where besides a handful of US dollars the USSR currency of choice were bottles of home made vodka.
 
Meanwhile, reports are coming in that radiation from the Chernobyl area are peaking X20 times thanks to Russian heavy military vehicles stirring up large quantities of highly radioactive dusk. Breathe deeply Comrades!

See /. for details.
 
I was going from memory. I was probably going on what I remember when it was still the USSR.
Right. That makes more sense. Barbos also sometimes confuses the USSR with Russia, since he seems to think that Belarus and Ukraine were always part of Russia. One estimate is that the population of the USSR would be roughly 299 million, if it were around today. However, it is far from clear what the GDP of that large state would be today.

That’s an interesting question. What is the total GDP of ex-USSR States, and how would that same number look if they were all still (or again) under the thumb of the bear.

Maybe we could make a deal to let pootey take them all back if he’ll give up nukes?
/ya sure
 
Yeah. That is generally the result of crap leadership in Russia since... well, no one remembers that far back. Ultimately, Putin is "Making Russia Great Again"... but again... that back when umm... any one know?

Back to Catherine the Great. :biggrin:
 
Yeah. That is generally the result of crap leadership in Russia since... well, no one remembers that far back. Ultimately, Putin is "Making Russia Great Again"... but again... that back when umm... any one know?

Back to Catherine the Great. :biggrin:
_bJtTAyDjoeoDTUtaGzNGDJ9dcNQ7vGHv3GNL_iAus4.jpg
 
Back
Top Bottom