How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Patooka]

Oops.

Brave new world of Putin: An article by the propaganda publication RIA Novosti, which was to be published after the occupation of Ukraine​

An article by the propaganda publication RIA Novosti, which was to be published after the occupation of Ukraine, is preserved in the Web Archive. The Kremlin’s propaganda publication RIA-Novosti accidentally published an article that was to be published after the rapid occupation of Ukraine. It was quickly removed, but the Internet Archive web service managed to save it.

It describes Putin’s imperial plans for the total Russification of Ukraine and Belarus and change of the world order.

But sure. The "justification" was Nazis.

 

[Politesse]

The notion that a war almost entirely funded by dirty gas and oil money could somehow have been prevented by having even fewer environmental protections is bizarrely illogical even before you reach the obvious question of ethics.

 

[barbos]

Putin wasn't fine with it. That's why he pressured Yanukovich to kill the deal, and crack down on the protests.

We are going in circles. Ukraine leaving Russia was going to cost money regardless, the question was how much and how fast.
He was not pressuring him, he was buying him with cheap credits.
There were no real protests until Nuland&Co came in.

Nuland arrived in Kyiv only after the crackdown had started.

yeah, you know there is such thing as email? You don't have to be physically there to communicate with people.

but due to violent response by the security forces, the outrage grew and the protestors became more radical themselves.

Let say OK, so what? what does it change? I admit, police was not doing great job.

How was Zelensky supposed to stop the war? I

Easy, just being a real president and an telling that piece of shit who tried to bully him during visit to Eastern Ukraine to go a fuck himself instead of running off like a little boy.

Putin playing the nazi card, and you parroting it uncritically, is ironic

Dude, you are annoying. I have proven beyond any doubt that Ukraine is effectively run by nazis. Deal with it.

 

[laughing dog]

Russian forces destroyed NATO base in Ukraine. It was empty of course, wasted ammunition on destroying buildings which could have been used later. I guess it was a political message.

There are no NATO bases in Ukraine.

 

[zorq]

My first post in this thread was about how the Soviet Union was the inspiration for a multitudes of new generations of NAZIs. This is because of a couple of reasons. Firstly, NAZIs were the most deadly enemy the Soviets/Russia faced in the modern era, and secondly, the Soviets/Russia were brutal rulers leaving them quite unpopular with huge portions of their subjugated populations.

Barbos keeps railing on about Ukranian NAZIs, but in this context that sort of misses the point. For this story their white nationalist ideals aren't nearly as important as their Anti-Russian ideals.

After Putin came to power he proved Russia is no friend to his neighbors. Anti-Russia fanatics who identify as NAZIs are going to join in on any political movement that gets rid of Russian influence. Nuland didn't have to twist arms to get these Anti-Russia Enthusiasts to rally against a politician who was cozying up to Russia. These NAZI anti-Russians probably showed up without any influence from ANYONE. Well, I write 'anyone,' but they showed up because they hate Russia in their country.

Now what is it exactly that Nuland is accused of doing with these NAZI groups? We've heard Barbos's bizarre accusations, but here's my take: I don't think she did ANYTHING.

The only things she is documented as doing is the following: She passed out cookies to protesters in the square, probably mostly the students. She probably spoke to some of them telling them that, yeah, Russia is bad for Ukraine. (In truth, Russia is VERY bad for Ukraine) And after the shit hits the fan and the (largely NAZI) militia groups attack the police and raid the government buildings, Nuland has a chat with a US ambassador about what she hopes the replacement government looks like.

That's it. Cookies and a phone call. (And the phone call wasn't to NAZIs.)

Yanukovych fell because he lost popular support. Turning away from Europe and toward Russia lost him the NAZIs who might have otherwise been indifferent if it hadn't been a move towards Russia. He lost the idealistic youth, who see the brighter futures available in the EU. And he probably lost a lot of decent old folks too who weren't about to march in the streets, but who remember some of the bullshit the Russians pulled on them when they were young.

Putin couldn't handle it. A Ukraine independent of Russia? No. That offended him. So he attacked. Putin is the bad guy. All of Barbos's outrageous accusations are fantasies fed to him by propaganda.

Now was the replacement government a NAZI government? Partially.

But you know what? Being a NAZI isn't a justification to kill someone, steal their property, or send violent mercenaries into their home. It's a justification to have a discussion with them. German NAZIs were hated and purged because of their atrocities, not their ideas. Just as Russians are hated for their current atrocities.

For the record Yatsenuk was the New leader of Ukraine after the Euromaidan protests. He's the man Nuland hoped would take over. He was part of the Batkivshchyna party, (All-Ukrainian Union "Fatherland" )
Its a rather centrist party. Not NAZI.

 

[barbos]

Now what is it exactly that Nuland is accused of doing with these NAZI groups? We've heard Barbos's bizarre accusations, but here's my take: I don't think she did ANYTHING.

She invited them to the party. And she admitted that.
I don't know what else to say.

 

[barbos]

After Putin came to power he proved Russia is no friend to his neighbors. Anti-Russia fanatics who identify as NAZIs are going to join in on any political movement that gets rid of Russian influence. Nuland didn't have to twist arms to get these Anti-Russia Enthusiasts to rally against a politician who was cozying up to Russia.

Did you read my post about Saakashvili?

 

[pood]

Putin’s Red Nazis in the KKKremlin bomb Babyn Yar Holocaust memorial site.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Putin’s Red Nazis in the KKKremlin bomb Babyn Yar Holocaust memorial site.

According to Barbos, Russian projectiles are very accurate, so this wasn't a mistake.

 

[Jayjay]

Putin wasn't fine with it. That's why he pressured Yanukovich to kill the deal, and crack down on the protests.

We are going in circles. Ukraine leaving Russia was going to cost money regardless, the question was how much and how fast.
He was not pressuring him, he was buying him with cheap credits.

Bribe, pressure, doesn't matter. The end result is the same that he was in Putin's pocket.

There were no real protests until Nuland&Co came in.

Nuland arrived in Kyiv only after the crackdown had started.

yeah, you know there is such thing as email? You don't have to be physically there to communicate with people.

But you have no evidence whatsoever that she was communicating with "nazis" at all. I was gracious enough to suggest that her presence in Kyiv may count as circumstantial evidence of Nuland's involvement of some kind... but the timing is off. The crackdown started before her arrival. Without that you have nothing.

but due to violent response by the security forces, the outrage grew and the protestors became more radical themselves.

Let say OK, so what? what does it change? I admit, police was not doing great job.

It made the protestors more violent too, and pissed many people off who may have otherwise just quit.

How was Zelensky supposed to stop the war? I

Easy, just being a real president and an telling that piece of shit who tried to bully him during visit to Eastern Ukraine to go a fuck himself instead of running off like a little boy.

That would have caused Putin to stop supporting the separatists and withdraw from Donbass, and maybe even give Crimea back to Ukraine with an apology? Sure, whatever.

Putin playing the nazi card, and you parroting it uncritically, is ironic

Dude, you are annoying. I have proven beyond any doubt that Ukraine is effectively run by nazis. Deal with it.

And I've refuted your silly "proofs" time and time again. You're simply so deluded by your country's propaganda that you can't see it. When all you've seen in your media for past 8 years is demonization of an entire country as nazis and fascists, with a constant barrage of your leader filling your brain with images of the Great Patriotic War that your ancestors fought to save Europe from fascism and nazis, you've started to believe that Putin's mass murder campaign and his war propaganda are true, and by believing that bullshit, YOU are in fact fighting in the Second Great Patriotic War.

I don't expect you to see the light. But at the same time, I can't let this bullshit go unchallenged either.

 

[barbos]

Bribe, pressure, doesn't matter. The end result is the same that he was in Putin's pocket.

So, how is that different from what every other country does?
Russia paid Ukraine money in order not to lose more money in disorderly EU integration.

And I've refuted your silly "proofs" time and time again

My silly proof? how about your retarded edits?

Pro-western president of Ukraine awards fucking nazi with a Hero of Ukraine
And you call it silly proof?
Are you calling Israel Poland and the whole damn EU russian puppets?
Are you on crack-cocaine?

Sorry man, it quacks like a nazi and walks like a nazi and it awarded hero of Ukraine to a nazi.

 

[Gospel]

It seems the majority (if not every) country is saying Russia = Bad.on this one.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Bribe, pressure, doesn't matter. The end result is the same that he was in Putin's pocket.

So, how is that different from what every other country does?
Russia paid Ukraine money in order not to lose more money in disorderly EU integration.

And I've refuted your silly "proofs" time and time again

My silly proof? how about your retarded edits?

Pro-western president of Ukraine awards fucking nazi with a Hero of Ukraine
And you call it silly proof?
Are you calling Israel Poland and the whole damn EU russian puppets?
Are you on crack-cocaine?

Sorry man, it quacks like a nazi and walks like a nazi and it awarded hero of Ukraine to a nazi.

You are thinking of a duck. Possibly an Egyptian.

Zelensky is none of those three things. Putin needs to personally attack them as Nazis because otherwise, the Russians are killing other Slavs. And you are taking the bait without any sense of hesitation.

 

[barbos]

Watched a stream of well known ukrainian journalist who is moderately pro-russian
and in general just sane, he obviously not that happy about operation and concerned about apparent reports of bombs falling in not intended places. He was expelled from Ukraine during Yanukovich and lives in Lithuania.

Not pro-putin but is not insane like people here. Weird, right?

You are more pro-ukrainian and anti-russia than ukrainians.

 

[barbos]

Zelensky is none of those three things. Putin needs to personally attack them as Nazis because otherwise, the Russians are killing other Slavs. And you are taking the bait without any sense of hesitation

Putin does not think Zelensky is a nazi, he is not. It's just nazi are essentially the only guys with guns in Ukraine who are not afraid to use them and hence they determine direction in which country moves.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Man, you are shifting posts all over the place... what sport are we playing now?

barbos a couple posts ago

Pro-western president of Ukraine awards fucking nazi with a Hero of Ukraine

...

Sorry man, it quacks like a nazi and walks like a nazi and it awarded hero of Ukraine to a nazi.

barbos for the moment.

Putin does not think Zelensky is a nazi, he is not.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Watched a stream of well known ukrainian journalist who is moderately pro-russian
and in general just sane, he obviously not that happy about operation and concerned about apparent reports of bombs falling in not intended places. He was expelled from Ukraine during Yanukovich and lives in Lithuania.

Not pro-putin but is not insane like people here. Weird, right?

You are more pro-ukrainian and anti-russia than ukrainians.

We, in general, be anti-Russian invasion of Ukraine. And definitely anti-Putin. You should as well. What in the hell has he done for Russia in 20 years, other than usurp wealth for himself and others?

 

[barbos]

E

Watched a stream of well known ukrainian journalist who is moderately pro-russian
and in general just sane, he obviously not that happy about operation and concerned about apparent reports of bombs falling in not intended places. He was expelled from Ukraine during Yanukovich and lives in Lithuania.

Not pro-putin but is not insane like people here. Weird, right?

You are more pro-ukrainian and anti-russia than ukrainians.

We, in general, be anti-Russian invasion of Ukraine. And definitely anti-Putin. You should as well. What in the hell has he done for Russia in 20 years, other than usurp wealth for himself and others?

The thing is, he (ukrainian journalist and former member of parliament) is much less all of that than you. It should bother you but it does not.

You fire people for not condemning Russia and here we have 20-30% of Ukrainians doing the same.

Bottom line, Ukraine is still deeply divided, even on issue of being literally invaded by Russia. Much more so than US/EU appears to be, at least according to governments and Media.

 

[Gospel]

The real thing is Putin needs to GET GOOD. If your next-door neighbor would rather hang out with people in the adjacent subdivision there must be something you're not doing right. Kicking their door down and taking over their house is not going to make your neighbor any friendlier.

Especially considering that the other subdivision is in the ghetto.

 

[Keith&Co.]

He was expelled from Ukraine during Yanukovich and lives in Lithuania.

People thorwing bombs say they're not hitting civilians. People being hit by bombs say they are.

People in Lithuania say... Well, why is THEIR impression of bombistics important?