How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[ZiprHead]

 

[Patooka]

Let me guess, the Ukrainian military bombed their own building to blame it on Russia right barbos? IMO that would be overkill being that the international community has already condemned the Russian invasion. Maybe Ukrainians don't think they condemned it enough. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Now, Now.
I am sure Barbos can find someone who says the building needed renovation anyway.

Don't be absurd.

It was full of Nazis.

 

[Politesse]

I do hope they took the tanks. Those could prove useful. Though I imagine the things are probably out of gas.

 

[Copernicus]

I do hope they took the tanks. Those could prove useful. Though I imagine the things are probably out of gas.

It appears that they don't have adequate fuel or food supplies. That huge convoy may have been assembled very quickly out of desperation--probably to pacify an enraged Putin. The generals in charge don't seem to be very competent, but they know how to follow orders. The troops, OTOH, appear to contain a lot of conscripts who never signed up for an unprovoked invasion of a neighboring country. Everyone thought Putin was bluffing, until he wasn't.

 

[pood]

There are reports that Russian soldiers are knocking on the doors of Ukrainian homes asking the residents there to give them food.

 

[pood]

I guess Mad Vlad thought this would be all over in a day or two.

 

[pood]

Andrei Kozyrev, a former Russian foreign minister, has called on all Russian diplomats to resign in protest over Mad Vlad’s “bloody fratricidal war” on Ukraine. The company that owns the now-suspended natural gas pipeline linking Russia to Germany is insolvent and has let all of its employees go. Belarus is now in the war and is slammed with sanctions. So it goes. Mad Vlad has reportedly sent his family to a Siberian bunker. It was oft remarked that if Hitler had had nukes in 1945 when his world was falling apart, there is no doubt he would have used them. Mad Vlad has nukes.

 

[steve_bank]

I wish I'd have come up with Mad Vlad. It fits.

It does not seem like the Russian military is as well trained and led as we might have thought. They did not adequaltly coordinate airborne, land, and landings from the sea. There does not seem to be any planned objective.

I suspect te Russian military is more political than professional. It looks like an attempt by Putin to show his army is as proficient as NATO.

At this point I think there is hope for Ukraine to survive.

 

[ZiprHead]

For the 1st time in a modern conflict, the regular forces of Russia are communicating without digital mode, making them fully audible by everyone.

Much more info in that thread.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[ZiprHead]

BBC Rolling

Russian column near Kyiv hampered by breakdowns

Frank Gardner

BBC Security Correspondent

A handout satellite image made available by Maxar Technologies shows northern section of convoy southeast of Ivankiv, Ukraine, 28 February 2022
EPA/Maxar TechnologiesCopyright: EPA/Maxar Technologies
Some clarity on that massive Russian armoured column heading south towards Kyiv.

Close analysis of the latest satellite images by McKenzie Intelligence Services reveals the following:

The convoy is not 40 miles long, it’s a series of logistical ‘packets’ strung out along a major highway from the Belarus border, aiming to link up with Russian units on the northern outskirts of Kyiv.
The convoy appears to be hampered in several places by broken down vehicles.
The column consists of some armour (tanks) and infantry fighting vehicles but mainly logistical vehicles, implying plans for more than just a brief battle.
Separately, the imagery examined by McKenzie Intelligence Services shows a Russian parachute battalion dug in to the area of Hostomel airfield - Ukraine's most important international cargo airport and a key military airbase near Kyiv.

But their artillery is assessed to be outside the range of most of the capital.

The analysts say they have noted very little Russian progress over the last 24 hours.

 

[Jayjay]

Bribe, pressure, doesn't matter. The end result is the same that he was in Putin's pocket.

So, how is that different from what every other country does?
Russia paid Ukraine money in order not to lose more money in disorderly EU integration.

I was talking about paying off (or threatening) Yanukovich personally to do Russia's bidding. Russia also of course tried to sweeten the deal of Eurasian customs union in general, but that still wasn't enough.

And I've refuted your silly "proofs" time and time again

My silly proof? how about your retarded edits?

What "retarded edits"?

Pro-western president of Ukraine awards fucking nazi with a Hero of Ukraine
And you call it silly proof?

Yes. Banderas was a WW2-era nazi, but also fought for Ukrainian independence. They didn't give him the award because of the former, but because of the latter, to spite off Putin's Russia who had attacked and was occupying Ukraine. It doesn't make the people who gave the award nazis, just idiots. Ukraine's top two problems are Russia's aggression, and corruption. "Nazis" are on the list but somewhere way, way down at the list at position 173. Ukraine doesn't have any more nazis than Russia, and Putin himself is using exactly the same kind of rhetoric as Hitler did in 1938-1939.

In any case all the things you use as a pretext to the war happened after Putin had already annexed Crimea and supported the separatists in Donetsk. Even if Poroshenko and others were card carrying NSDAP party members, it doesn't justify Russia's aggression. It would be an internal Ukrainian problem.

Are you calling Israel Poland and the whole damn EU russian puppets?

When did I say that? And why would I say that? Poland, Israel and EU are supporting Ukraine. They don't seem to buy at all Putin's bonkers claims of nazi-infested Ukraine.

Sorry man, it quacks like a nazi and walks like a nazi and it awarded hero of Ukraine to a nazi.

No matter how many times you repeat this false claim, it still doesn't justify the invasion and the thousands of deaths.

 

[Copernicus]

Are you calling Israel Poland and the whole damn EU russian puppets?

When did I say that? And why would I say that? Poland, Israel and EU are supporting Ukraine. They don't seem to buy at all Putin's bonkers claims of nazi-infested Ukraine.

Whenever barbos says something like this, you immediately think he's talking about the present day, but he gives no indication of what he is referring to. That is very typical of his style--unsupported tweet-sized replies that assume a context that only he knows. I suspect he may be referring to a more historical context, but you have started the process of pulling teeth to find out.

 

[Jayjay]

Zelensky is none of those three things. Putin needs to personally attack them as Nazis because otherwise, the Russians are killing other Slavs. And you are taking the bait without any sense of hesitation

Putin does not think Zelensky is a nazi, he is not. It's just nazi are essentially the only guys with guns in Ukraine who are not afraid to use them and hence they determine direction in which country moves.

Finally you admit that Zelensky is not a nazi. This is progress. Although Putin said all the Ukrainian leaders are nazis and drug addicts, which includes Zelensky, so you're reading something into his statements that aren't there.

You're right that the ones with guns and willingness to fight tend to have far right views and be a bit crazy in general. But beggars can't be choosers, it's not like Zelensky can afford to tell the Azov brigade that they should put down their arms and go home because he disagrees with their stance on street names and government awards policy. Every pair of hands is needed to fend off Russian aggression. If you want to get rid of Nazis, you should tell your pal Putin to withdraw his troops, and let Ukraine join NATO so that it can feel secure and can have a more professional military.

 

[Politesse]

It appears that they don't have adequate fuel or food supplies. That huge convoy may have been assembled very quickly out of desperation--probably to pacify an enraged Putin. The generals in charge don't seem to be very competent, but they know how to follow orders. The troops, OTOH, appear to contain a lot of conscripts who never signed up for an unprovoked invasion of a neighboring country. Everyone thought Putin was bluffing, until he wasn't.

Not feeling a whole lot of sympathy under the circumstances, but this is a massive mobilization on a scale very few militaries have attempted in decades; I'm not surprised that there are logistical problems, no matter how much or how little they may have planned.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Mad Vlad has nukes.

But his generals? The ones the oligarchs bought?
They have kids at school in London. Family in New York. Girlfriends in Miami. Investments in San Francisco, Berlin. Apartments in Paris.

I know if we had been given orders, when i was in, we'd spent our lives being told how evil and powerful Soviet Russia was. We would not have questioned or paused. The training, the alert posture never changed when the wall came down. We just added more enemies. Took away a few missiles with treaties. Still on patrol, thoigh. Still targeting.

They have to know we're not going to dither if they launch. And that'll destroy both their countries: the one they live in and the one they want to live in....or at least where they fuel up the yacht.

 

[bilby]

they are demolishing civilian targets, thinking perhaps that it will weaken the will of the Ukrainian population to resist.

Yeah that always works. The pointless cruelty endears you to them, while the wanton destruction garners endless gratitude. Makes them want to apologize to you and go home.
I’m starting to think Pootey really has parted ways with his marbles.

The doctrine that you can weaken enemy resolve by destroying their homes, public buildings, and other civic infrastructure was exploded (literally and figuratively) in the 1940s.

Literally every country involved in WWII responded to the destruction of cities by an increased determination to fight.

How can anyone rise to a position of military authority today, seven decades later, without being aware of this?

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Keith&Co.]

How can anyone rise to a position of military authority today, seven decades later, without being aware of this?

You did see the day Rep. Gaetz demanded a general be kicked oit of the military for having read up on CRT, right? Put people like that in charge, you get military types that believe the books they are allowed to read.

 

[ZiprHead]