How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Harry Bosch]

I started this thread to ask the question of what should the west do to stop the impending Russian invasion. Well, whatever the west is doing, it just isn't working. The civilians in Ukraine and suffering terribly. The people are putting up a valiant fight, but they are people with day to day jobs going against a professional army with the latest weapons. Apparently, after Russia has conquered Ukraine and murdered it's leaders, they plan to attack Moldova.

MSN

Individual citizens like you and I can't do much. But we can do this:

1) Write your congressman. Ukrainians need stingers and Javelins. Every effort needs to be made to limit Russian mobility. If their transportation is taken out, they can't conquer.
2) Sanctions, Sanctions, Sanctions. Sanctions are helpful, but probably only over the long term. But the goal should be to bankrupt Russia until, use the carrot of economics to encourage them to stop their imperialism. All Russian banks should be taken off swift. Any and all sanctions should be considered and implemented immediately. The time for slow rolling out sanctions against Russia should be over.
3) Boycott Russian goods and activities. Below is a list of goods that should be boycotted.
4) Help the Ukrainians. Below is an excellent link to support charities helping civilians. Displaced civilians are low on food, water and shelter. I'm going to research the best charities, then will report back after we send them money.
5) Get involved locally. My wife sits on a board for a local theatre. The Russian Orchestra was scheduled to perform in June. Very nice people that we've met before. The board unanimously cancelled the performance.

It might seem a little harsh, but if individual Russians don't feel some of the pain that their government is causing, Putin will never stop. Sadly, the only people who can stop Putin are really the Russian people.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/27/how-to-help-ukraine/

Do not buy Russian goods! - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Governors Call for Boycott of Russian Products in Response to Country's Invasion of Ukraine

Businesses and governments are boycotting products from Russia amid the country's ongoing invasion of Ukraine

people.com

 

[Harry Bosch]

Well, how many Russians would give a hungry Ukranian food? They'd probably just call him a nazi and shoosh him away at best.

Is that intended as sarcasm? If it isn't it needs to be examined for what it is. I certainly hope it was meant sarcastically. If not sarcasm, it is something I would expect to hear from barbos.

I would be like the Ukranian tow truck driver who offered help to the Russian tank. He offered help, but only to tow them back to Russia. I wouldn't tow their tank to Kyiv. If I were going to help anyone, I would help the Ukranian civilians who have been displaced by the Russians. They are the ones who need food. The Russians should get their food in Russia, where no one is attacking them.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

From article describing how Russia bombed Holocaust memorial:

Airstrikes that targeted Kyiv on Tuesday hit the Babyn Yar Holocaust memorial site in Kyiv, according to the head of the Office of the President of Ukraine, Andriy Yermak. The memorial is located near the Kyiv TV Tower, which was also damaged on Tuesday.

...

“Putin seeks to distort and manipulate the Holocaust to justify an illegal invasion of a sovereign democratic country is utterly abhorrent. It is symbolic that he starts attacking Kyiv by bombing the site of the Babyn Yar, the biggest of Nazi massacre."

I guess you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet?

 

[barbos]

I started this thread to ask the question of what should the west do to stop the impending Russian invasion. Well, whatever the west is doing, it just isn't working. The civilians in Ukraine and suffering terribly. The people are putting up a valiant fight, but they are people with day to day jobs going against a professional army with the latest weapons. Apparently, after Russia has conquered Ukraine and murdered it's leaders, they plan to attack Moldova.

MSN

Individual citizens like you and I can't do much. But we can do this:

1) Write your congressman. Ukrainians need stingers and Javelins. Every effort needs to be made to limit Russian mobility. If their transportation is taken out, they can't conquer.
2) Sanctions, Sanctions, Sanctions. Sanctions are helpful, but probably only over the long term. But the goal should be to bankrupt Russia until, use the carrot of economics to encourage them to stop their imperialism. All Russian banks should be taken off swift. Any and all sanctions should be considered and implemented immediately. The time for slow rolling out sanctions against Russia should be over.
3) Boycott Russian goods and activities. Below is a list of goods that should be boycotted.
4) Help the Ukrainians. Below is an excellent link to support charities helping civilians. Displaced civilians are low on food, water and shelter. I'm going to research the best charities, then will report back after we send them money.
5) Get involved locally. My wife sits on a board for a local theatre. The Russian Orchestra was scheduled to perform in June. Very nice people that we've met before. The board unanimously cancelled the performance.

It might seem a little harsh, but if individual Russians don't feel some of the pain that their government is causing, Putin will never stop. Sadly, the only people who can stop Putin are really the Russian people.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/27/how-to-help-ukraine/

Do not buy Russian goods! - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Governors Call for Boycott of Russian Products in Response to Country's Invasion of Ukraine

Businesses and governments are boycotting products from Russia amid the country's ongoing invasion of Ukraine

people.com

Amazing, if only you were so generous to people of Eastern Ukraine.
Also I don't remember you talking about time when your beloved "ukrainians" cut water to Crimea.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I started this thread to ask the question of what should the west do to stop the impending Russian invasion. Well, whatever the west is doing, it just isn't working. The civilians in Ukraine and suffering terribly. The people are putting up a valiant fight, but they are people with day to day jobs going against a professional army with the latest weapons. Apparently, after Russia has conquered Ukraine and murdered it's leaders, they plan to attack Moldova.

MSN

Individual citizens like you and I can't do much. But we can do this:

1) Write your congressman. Ukrainians need stingers and Javelins. Every effort needs to be made to limit Russian mobility. If their transportation is taken out, they can't conquer.
2) Sanctions, Sanctions, Sanctions. Sanctions are helpful, but probably only over the long term. But the goal should be to bankrupt Russia until, use the carrot of economics to encourage them to stop their imperialism. All Russian banks should be taken off swift. Any and all sanctions should be considered and implemented immediately. The time for slow rolling out sanctions against Russia should be over.
3) Boycott Russian goods and activities. Below is a list of goods that should be boycotted.
4) Help the Ukrainians. Below is an excellent link to support charities helping civilians. Displaced civilians are low on food, water and shelter. I'm going to research the best charities, then will report back after we send them money.
5) Get involved locally. My wife sits on a board for a local theatre. The Russian Orchestra was scheduled to perform in June. Very nice people that we've met before. The board unanimously cancelled the performance.

It might seem a little harsh, but if individual Russians don't feel some of the pain that their government is causing, Putin will never stop. Sadly, the only people who can stop Putin are really the Russian people.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/27/how-to-help-ukraine/

Do not buy Russian goods! - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Governors Call for Boycott of Russian Products in Response to Country's Invasion of Ukraine

Businesses and governments are boycotting products from Russia amid the country's ongoing invasion of Ukraine

people.com

Amazing, if only you were so generous to people of Eastern Ukraine.
Also I don't remember you talking about time when your beloved "ukrainians" cut water to Crimea.

You've got sources (although I haven't seen your sources) that say that Ukrainians have been attacking E. Ukrainians. I have sources that I trust (let me know if you want to see them) that say the opposite. Regardless, Russians told the E. Ukrainians to flee to Russia so that they could launch their invasion and kill the "Nazis". Having said that, I'd help any person displaced by war who needed it if I could - as long as they weren't invading another country. I actually think that Ukraine would be better off to have just let E. Ukraine go. Easy for me to say.

 

[barbos]

Ukrainian "Army" (national battalions or nazis) do not allow civilian population to leave blocked Mariupol. And some reports say they are holding bunch of civilians hostage in one of the abandoned factories. This looks bad.

 

[barbos]

I started this thread to ask the question of what should the west do to stop the impending Russian invasion. Well, whatever the west is doing, it just isn't working. The civilians in Ukraine and suffering terribly. The people are putting up a valiant fight, but they are people with day to day jobs going against a professional army with the latest weapons. Apparently, after Russia has conquered Ukraine and murdered it's leaders, they plan to attack Moldova.

MSN

Individual citizens like you and I can't do much. But we can do this:

1) Write your congressman. Ukrainians need stingers and Javelins. Every effort needs to be made to limit Russian mobility. If their transportation is taken out, they can't conquer.
2) Sanctions, Sanctions, Sanctions. Sanctions are helpful, but probably only over the long term. But the goal should be to bankrupt Russia until, use the carrot of economics to encourage them to stop their imperialism. All Russian banks should be taken off swift. Any and all sanctions should be considered and implemented immediately. The time for slow rolling out sanctions against Russia should be over.
3) Boycott Russian goods and activities. Below is a list of goods that should be boycotted.
4) Help the Ukrainians. Below is an excellent link to support charities helping civilians. Displaced civilians are low on food, water and shelter. I'm going to research the best charities, then will report back after we send them money.
5) Get involved locally. My wife sits on a board for a local theatre. The Russian Orchestra was scheduled to perform in June. Very nice people that we've met before. The board unanimously cancelled the performance.

It might seem a little harsh, but if individual Russians don't feel some of the pain that their government is causing, Putin will never stop. Sadly, the only people who can stop Putin are really the Russian people.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/27/how-to-help-ukraine/

Do not buy Russian goods! - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Governors Call for Boycott of Russian Products in Response to Country's Invasion of Ukraine

Businesses and governments are boycotting products from Russia amid the country's ongoing invasion of Ukraine

people.com

Amazing, if only you were so generous to people of Eastern Ukraine.
Also I don't remember you talking about time when your beloved "ukrainians" cut water to Crimea.

You've got sources (although I haven't seen your sources) that say that Ukrainians have been attacking E. Ukrainians. I have sources that I trust (let me know if you want to see them) that say the opposite. Regardless, Russians told the E. Ukrainians to flee to Russia so that they could launch their invasion and kill the "Nazis".

What do you mean sources?
This war started 8 years ago by your side and 14K people died over that period.

 

[pood]

He also hasn't pushed through any classic right wing policies. Based on what he's actually done Zelenskyy looks more like a classic liberal. Obviously he's a corrupt asshole. But so's any Ukrainian politician.

Any evidence to suport your claim about Zelensky?

 

[barbos]

Well, how many Russians would give a hungry Ukranian food? They'd probably just call him a nazi and shoosh him away at best.

I am glad you asked. I think around 200K ukrainians from Eastern Ukraine left for Russia. They are being bused to all nearby and not so much areas. Children go to school, college age children are being enrolled into colleges without exams. Families get food and money.
You're welcome.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I started this thread to ask the question of what should the west do to stop the impending Russian invasion. Well, whatever the west is doing, it just isn't working. The civilians in Ukraine and suffering terribly. The people are putting up a valiant fight, but they are people with day to day jobs going against a professional army with the latest weapons. Apparently, after Russia has conquered Ukraine and murdered it's leaders, they plan to attack Moldova.

MSN

Individual citizens like you and I can't do much. But we can do this:

1) Write your congressman. Ukrainians need stingers and Javelins. Every effort needs to be made to limit Russian mobility. If their transportation is taken out, they can't conquer.
2) Sanctions, Sanctions, Sanctions. Sanctions are helpful, but probably only over the long term. But the goal should be to bankrupt Russia until, use the carrot of economics to encourage them to stop their imperialism. All Russian banks should be taken off swift. Any and all sanctions should be considered and implemented immediately. The time for slow rolling out sanctions against Russia should be over.
3) Boycott Russian goods and activities. Below is a list of goods that should be boycotted.
4) Help the Ukrainians. Below is an excellent link to support charities helping civilians. Displaced civilians are low on food, water and shelter. I'm going to research the best charities, then will report back after we send them money.
5) Get involved locally. My wife sits on a board for a local theatre. The Russian Orchestra was scheduled to perform in June. Very nice people that we've met before. The board unanimously cancelled the performance.

It might seem a little harsh, but if individual Russians don't feel some of the pain that their government is causing, Putin will never stop. Sadly, the only people who can stop Putin are really the Russian people.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/27/how-to-help-ukraine/

Do not buy Russian goods! - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Governors Call for Boycott of Russian Products in Response to Country's Invasion of Ukraine

Businesses and governments are boycotting products from Russia amid the country's ongoing invasion of Ukraine

people.com

Amazing, if only you were so generous to people of Eastern Ukraine.
Also I don't remember you talking about time when your beloved "ukrainians" cut water to Crimea.

You've got sources (although I haven't seen your sources) that say that Ukrainians have been attacking E. Ukrainians. I have sources that I trust (let me know if you want to see them) that say the opposite. Regardless, Russians told the E. Ukrainians to flee to Russia so that they could launch their invasion and kill the "Nazis".

What do you mean sources?
This war started 8 years ago by your side and 14K people died over that period.

Negative Kemosabe. You don't know your own history. Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, then E. Ukraine separated from Ukraine with Russian encouragement and direct help. That is the commonly held history of what happened. If you want to allege a contrary view, please support with evidence and links. Here's a source that could help you:

History of Crimea - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[barbos]

Negative Kemosabe. You don't know your own history. Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, then E. Ukraine separated from Ukraine with Russian encouragement and direct help. That is the commonly held history of what happened. If you want to allege a contrary view, please support with evidence and links. Here's a source that could help you:

Crimea is not Eastern Ukraine. And nobody died in Crimea.
Why are you posting this obvious garbage?

 

[DrZoidberg]

He also hasn't pushed through any classic right wing policies. Based on what he's actually done Zelenskyy looks more like a classic liberal. Obviously he's a corrupt asshole. But so's any Ukrainian politician.

Any evidence to suport your claim about Zelensky?

I'm right now dating a Ukranian woman. We have talked about this a lot. She's mentioned nothing about any Nazis in Ukraine. I don't think it's a thing. Not more than anywhere else in Europe. Certainly they don't have political power, nor have harmed people to any degree where it matters. And based on Google searches this is a piece of news we ONLY get from Russia. Nowhere else has this been reported on. Which suggests it's a Putin plant story in Russia.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Well, how many Russians would give a hungry Ukranian food? They'd probably just call him a nazi and shoosh him away at best.

I am glad you asked. I think around 200K ukrainians from Eastern Ukraine left for Russia. They are being bused to all nearby and not so much areas. Children go to school, college age children are being enrolled into colleges without exams. Families get food and money.
You're welcome.

You want credit for the helping the refugees that your side displaced by causing the war! Incredible.

Are you open to any compromise? Because I am. Would you at least agree that hungry Russian soldiers should return home, then the two sides should just negotiate? Just talk like civilized people. I would say to my Ukranian friends that they might be better off without East Ukraine. (Easy for me to say). Are you open to any potential compromise?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Negative Kemosabe. You don't know your own history. Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, then E. Ukraine separated from Ukraine with Russian encouragement and direct help. That is the commonly held history of what happened. If you want to allege a contrary view, please support with evidence and links. Here's a source that could help you:

Crimea is not Eastern Ukraine. And nobody died in Crimea.
Why are you posting this obvious garbage?

What is your source that makes you believe that Ukraine attacked Eastern Ukraine killing 18 thousand people?

 

[Elixir]

Barbos has been a busy little beaver today.
While he is watering down the information factor here, some are likely getting bored with his droning hype of Putinism.
Here's a glimpse of the actual reality, through the eyes of someone who actually knows and is not in the employ of either the US government or Vladimir Putin.

‘Yes, He Would’: Fiona Hill on Putin and Nukes

“Sadly, we are treading back through old historical patterns that we said that we would never permit to happen again,” Hill told me.

Those old historical patterns include Western businesses who fail to see how they help build a tyrant’s war chest, admirers enamored of an autocrat’s “strength” and politicians’ tendency to point fingers inward for political gain instead of working together for their nation’s security.

But at the same time, Hill says it’s not too late to turn Putin back, and it’s a job not just for the Ukrainians or for NATO — it’s a job that ordinary Westerners and companies can assist in important ways once they grasp what’s at stake.

“Ukraine has become the front line in a struggle, not just between democracies and autocracies but in a struggle for maintaining a rules-based system in which the things that countries want are not taken by force,” Hill said. “Every country in the world should be paying close attention to this.”

Putin's fragile emotional state has contributed to his delusion that he can re-constitute not just the USSR, but a global empire.

Putin has articulated an idea of there being a “Russky Mir” or a “Russian World.” The recent essay he published about Ukraine and Russia states the Ukrainian and Russian people are “one people,” a “yedinyi narod.” He’s saying Ukrainians and Russians are one and the same. This idea of a Russian World means re-gathering all the Russian-speakers in different places that belonged at some point to the Russian tsardom.

For anyone reading barbos' screeds, this won't be any surprise:

Putin’s view is that borders change, and so the borders of the old Russian imperium are still in play for Moscow to dominate now.

The effort is well underway.

We’ve seen pressure being put on Kazakhstan to reorient itself back toward Russia, instead of balancing between Russia and China, and the West. And just a couple of days before the invasion of Ukraine in a little-noticed act, Azerbaijan signed a bilateral military agreement with Russia. This is significant because Azerbaijan’s leader has been resisting this for decades. And we can also see that Russia has made itself the final arbiter of the future relationship between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Georgia has also been marginalized after being a thorn in Russia’s side for decades. And Belarus is now completely subjugated by Moscow.

Scary shit. As Putin's mental state degrades, his isolation increases and his desperation hits redline, he will probably try to destroy the world before letting it fall into the hands of non-Russians. We should have taken him out before he became a global menace. Now it's going to be up to Russia's oligarchy to realize that continuing to let Pootey entertain his insane ambitions is going to result in their inheritance of a glowing cinder instead of a country.

 

[Toni]

Now that it has escalated into actual combat, I still think this is not an issue the US should be involved in. No, that doesn't mean I support the either side in this conflict.

So your libertarian principles don't apply to other countries?

I understand the whole hands off approach to foreign policy even if I don't agree with it.

Here's what I think that Jason and others with similar philosophies should consider. If Putin really does use deNazification as a pretext to invade Ukraine, then the US could be next. We certainly have more than enough neoNazis, some of which run for political office and occasionally win.

Suppose Putin decides to put aside his own country's history/still present beliefs and invades the US to wipe out racism? Or to invade Poland and some other European countries for the same? But just consider him deciding to invade the US. As Sarah Palin so famously pointed out, you can see Russia from parts of Alaska and btw, some Russians very much want Alaska back, even though we paid good money for it.

 

[pood]

He also hasn't pushed through any classic right wing policies. Based on what he's actually done Zelenskyy looks more like a classic liberal. Obviously he's a corrupt asshole. But so's any Ukrainian politician.

Any evidence to suport your claim about Zelensky?

I'm right now dating a Ukranian woman. We have talked about this a lot. She's mentioned nothing about any Nazis in Ukraine. I don't think it's a thing. Not more than anywhere else in Europe. Certainly they don't have political power, nor have harmed people to any degree where it matters. And based on Google searches this is a piece of news we ONLY get from Russia. Nowhere else has this been reported on. Which suggests it's a Putin plant story in Russia.

I’m asking if you have any evidence to support your claim that he is a “corrupt asshole.” I realize he’s not a Nazi. That’s Barbos and Putin’s thing.

 

[barbos]

Negative Kemosabe. You don't know your own history. Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, then E. Ukraine separated from Ukraine with Russian encouragement and direct help. That is the commonly held history of what happened. If you want to allege a contrary view, please support with evidence and links. Here's a source that could help you:

Crimea is not Eastern Ukraine. And nobody died in Crimea.
Why are you posting this obvious garbage?

What is your source that makes you believe that Ukraine attacked Eastern Ukraine killing 18 thousand people?

Estimate is 14K people and these are all sides including military.
What are your sources that it did not happen?

These republics declared independence from regime which came to power as a result of violent maidan coup.


In other news.
Gergiev was fired from La Scala too, replaced with another russian-ossetian. Ossetia is either have inordinate number of musical conductors or these people intentionally did that, understanding that they did a boo-boo. Also Russian Opera singer Anna Netrebko was fired too, for the same reason.

Anna Netrebko - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

She is from Krasnodar which is near Ukraine from a cossack family which are all related to Ukraine and her last name is Ukrainian as well.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Negative Kemosabe. You don't know your own history. Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, then E. Ukraine separated from Ukraine with Russian encouragement and direct help. That is the commonly held history of what happened. If you want to allege a contrary view, please support with evidence and links. Here's a source that could help you:

Crimea is not Eastern Ukraine. And nobody died in Crimea.
Why are you posting this obvious garbage?

What is your source that makes you believe that Ukraine attacked Eastern Ukraine killing 18 thousand people?

Estimate is 14K people and these are all sides including military.
What are your sources that it did not happen?

These republics declared independence from regime which came to power as a result of violent maidan coup.


In other news.
Gergiev was fired from La Scala too, replaced with another russian-ossetian. Ossetia is either have inordinate number of musical conductors or these people intentionally did that, understanding that did a boo-boo. Also Russian Opera singer Anna Netrebko was fired too, for the same reason.

Anna Netrebko - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

She is from Krasnodar which is near Ukraine from a cossack family which are all realted to Ukraine and her last name is Ukrainian as well.

Negative. That's not how it works. You claimed that Ukraine attacked Eastern Ukraine and killed 14k people. What is your source for believing this?

 

[Elixir]

Estimate is

How convincing.

Estimate is that Pootey will use nukes before letting anyone depose his corrupt ass.