How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[ZiprHead]

I just heard on tv that Ukraine fired on a fuel depot in Russia. Take it to 'em, boys.

 

[Elixir]

This is probably just a case of ignorance. Chernobyl is hardly going to be stressed in the history books if it's mentioned at all. The soldiers (including their commander) probably had no idea of what they were getting into and no respect for the workers there who tried to warn them.

Yup. Simple story:
Russia fucked up again.
Hiding behind radioactive waste seemed like a good idea, til' their boys started getting radiation sickness.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Politesse]

Putin has likely been hoping to provoke just such an action, thus retroactively justifying his invasion, Israel-style. Innocent Russian blood spilled is something he desperately needs right now to keep his people angry and afraid of Ukraine.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I heard someone saying that even if Putin/Hitler goes nuclear and starts decimating Ukraine with nukes that we need to sign off on the tens of millions of lives lost in Ukraine and let them be annihilated so we can save humanity from nuclear devastation. Did this quack actually think that was a solution? Did he think that Hitler/Putin would just casually stop after wiping out Ukraine? Where is the madness?

I say help the Ukrainians destroy the sources of Russian support. Let them bomb and destroy everything they can reach inside Russia that is supporting the war against them. Is that somehow immoral? It's certainly more immoral to sacrifice Ukrainian lives to appease Hitler/Putin.

 

[Politesse]

I hope my comment wasn't taken as disapproval. There's no way they can stop the invasion of their nation without eventually crossing into Russia, wars don't work that way. But it will deepen and prolong the conflict. Putin and those who allowed his government to establish control over Russia are responsible for all this, but that won't change the outcome.

 

[Elixir]

Innocent Russian blood spilled is something he desperately needs right now

The only thing that makes me believe it's NOT a false flag: Russia reports three injured, nobody killed.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Jayjay]

Innocent Russian blood spilled is something he desperately needs right now

The only thing that makes me believe it's NOT a false flag: Russia reports three injured, nobody killed.

My thoughts exactly. If it were a false flag, it would have been a civilian target. I think it's a real strike.

I don't agree with this being that huge a propaganda hit to Ukraine, not yet at least. But it does send Russian army a message that they can be hit even beyond the border. Russia is currently forced to move its troops from Belarus to Eastern Ukraine in a roundabout way through Russia. If they have to worry about air strikes from Ukraine it means they'll be slower.

 

[TV and credit cards]

All's fair in war with Russia.
If Russia is in fact intending to concentrate forces on the Donbas region, Ukrainians demonstrating they can and will hit Russian supplies with Russia sends a strong message.

Now if Ukrainian forces could manage to take out the Crimean bridge. That would be a hoot.

 

[steve_bank]

An opinion piece called an attack on Russia as Biden's worse nightmare.

If I remember right, Hitler used a false flag attack on a radio station to justify his attack on Poland.

If the attack is true, it does not say much for Russian air surveillance.

I think it was in the 80s when somebody flew a small plane into Russia and landed in Moscow, completely undetected.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Scene: A woman cries out pleading for help as a rapist tears her clothes off.

Jason: "As a libertarian, I can't help her because that would make me the 'ultimate authority' around the neighborhood and what a slippery slope that is. I don't want to be a dictator."

Nonsense, but if I were to consider it as anything in the same solar system as valid then the contrary point to that post is "I think that guy over there might be thinking about rape so I better kill him now."

Maybe you should also say that to Harry Bosch, steve_bank, and ZiprHead when they describe "my" position.

You have no position. That's the point.

So now "don't get involved" isn't even a position at all. Good way to restrict the debate.

You enjoy your democratic freedoms but begrudge them to others.

Bullshit.

Democracy is the world's policeman.

Absurdist nonsense.

So you think that we should have the US be the ultimate authority around the world, bombing anyone who steps out of line even a little, deciding for all other countries? Killing civilians even in countries that couldn't pose a threat to us? Is that the conservative policy that you follow?

You do realize it's Russia doing that in this case, right?

What about my offer to help you directly support the Ukranians? Not interested? Neocons do very much like it when other people do the fighting.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

It should also be noted that Biden said the quiet part out loud and called for regime change in Russia.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Biden's message to Russia, you cannot afford Putin as your leader. Deal with him. Biden was right to do so.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Seze all the personal asses of Putin and company and give it to Ukraine.

He's KGB. I'm sure mst of his assets are listed as the property of a very good fake identity. No Nitup Rimidalv bullshit.
More likely, John Barron", "John Baron", "John Miller", or "David Dennison". Something classy and disconndcted from Putin.

We'll never find all his shit.

What might work is if we offered him a chance to nationalize the assets we already seized, including yachts, while we retain possession, then sell those off and apply to the balance of the reparations.

 

[steve_bank]

We handed freedom and democracy to Afghanistan and Iraq, and they turned on each other. They were unwilling to fight for themselves and independence.

Post war Japan, the Philippines granted they have authoritarian issus, Germany, South Korea, and Italy ended up free. Whatever our failures it is stl iour goal to widen freedom.

I listened to an interview with a Russian energy oligarch who was forced out for criticizing Putin. As he put it peole do not unertand Putin, he is mot thinking like anyone else. He is a dictator pure and simple.There is no reasoning or negotiating.

 

[bilby]

We handed freedom and democracy to Afghanistan and Iraq, and they turned on each other. They were unwilling to fight for themselves and independence

Congratulations, you win this century's "most untrue jingoistic claim" award.

Literally every part of your paragraph manages to be hilariously untrue, in both text and subtext, which is a truly remarkable achievement.

If you wrote that with a straight face, you may be eligible for further honours.

 

[steve_bank]

Biden's message to Russia, you cannot afford Putin as your leader. Deal with him. Biden was right to do so.

The problem is Putin has a lot of support. His decades of anti west propaganda and fear mongering worked.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Biden's message to Russia, you cannot afford Putin as your leader. Deal with him. Biden was right to do so.

The problem is Putin has a lot of support. His decades of anti west propaganda and fear mongering worked.

That isn't something we control. Don't stress about it.

 

[Copernicus]

Ukraine denies all responsibility for the fire, and those helicopters could easily just be piloted by Russian observers sent there to report on the extent of the damage. If it was an accident because of sloppy safety standards, that would be highly embarrassing to the military and Putin's government. So this video actually proves nothing, since there is no video of an actual attack on the depot. I still think it highly unlikely that Ukraine would fly helicopters that far from the front to attack Russian territory. So I wouldn't put too much trust in the above video as proof of anything. It's just helicopters flying in the sky after the fire occurred.