How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Jayjay]

For very mild values of "crippling". Fuel is a bit more expensive and Germans probably have to wear sweaters next winter. The real risk is that people might be stupid enough to vote in useful idiots who think appeasing Russia is going to work again, when it didn't work in 2014.

Russia will never tolerate Nazi controlled Ukraine.

I was talking about Europe and US.

Ukraine probably won't have elections until after the war, next round isn't even scheduled until 2024. If Ukraine is still free then, they're not going to give a flying fuck about what Putin wants.

Ukrainian nazi regime does not even give fuck what their own people think, they elected that clown with only one task - to end war in Eastern Ukraine. Instead that drug addict started a war with Russia.

There is no "nazi regime", except in Russian propaganda, where everyone who disagrees with Putin is a nazi.

Putin started the war because he thought he could end it in 3 days. That's it. Ukraine did nothing to provoke it; just like 2014 when Russia invaded Crimea and Donbas.

 

[Jayjay]

The advantage of having free press, unlike Russia, is that even if some media outlet lies, they get called on it.

In theory. In practice all "free" press is owned by some very interesting corporations.
Moreover, there is a revolving door between media and government.
So you don't really have a free press when it comes to mainstream media.
All you have are poor dissidents who, to be fair, are in much better shape than they would have been in Russia. This is true. But in the end, the average Joe is listening to CNN/FoxNews lies and believes it.

I'm not talking about CNN or Fox News. I'm talking about WP, NYT, BBC, DW, Le Monde, and so on. There is plenty more to western media than Fox News.

In Russia, all media that's not government-owned or parroting its message has been banned. That's the difference. And that's also why even CNN is miles ahead of Russian propaganda: if CNN airs lies, they get called out. If Russian tv airs lies, not only do they not get called out, but if someone calls them out, he's the one getting jail time.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Snort, guffaw! Reports are coming out of Ukraine that Ukraine has been building and deploying wood HIMARs decoys. The Russkies have been wasting expensive missiles trying to destroy the decoys. Meanwhile, Russian Spetsnaz troops and Wagner Group mercenaries have been fighting each other over access to Ukranian loot.

 

[ZiprHead]

That's funny, coming from a guy that wants to cancel an entire country.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The advantage of having free press, unlike Russia, is that even if some media outlet lies, they get called on it.

In theory. In practice all "free" press is owned by some very interesting corporations.
Moreover, there is a revolving door between media and government.
So you don't really have a free press when it comes to mainstream media.
All you have are poor dissidents who, to be fair, are in much better shape than they would have been in Russia. This is true. But in the end, the average Joe is listening to CNN/FoxNews lies and believes it.

I'm not talking about CNN or Fox News. I'm talking about WP, NYT, BBC, DW, Le Monde, and so on. There is plenty more to western media than Fox News.

In Russia, all media that's not government-owned or parroting its message has been banned. That's the difference. And that's also why even CNN is miles ahead of Russian propaganda: if CNN airs lies, they get called out. If Russian tv airs lies, not only do they not get called out, but if someone calls them out, he's the one getting jail time.

I'm sorry to say but he probably isn't reachable here. He's bought into the Russian propaganda hook line and sinker. It's more of a cult or a movement. But it's become religion. To be fair, there are many Americans with the same type of dogma who are unable to even conceive of other points of view let alone other sources of information: the Q followers. And Americans obviously have far more information at their disposal than the typical Russian. IMO, Russia today is what America would like if QTrumpers were to take over with rational Americans fleeing to Canada or Mexico.

 

[steve_bank]

Snort, guffaw! Reports are coming out of Ukraine that Ukraine has been building and deploying wood HIMARs decoys. The Russkies have been wasting expensive missiles trying to destroy the decoys. Meanwhile, Russian Spetsnaz troops and Wagner Group mercenaries have been fighting each other over access to Ukranian loot.

WWII. Rubber inflatable tank and airplanes s were used as part of fake army in England prior to the invasion of France. The Pas de Calais fake invasion deception. Dummy paratroopers were dropped that set of firecrackers.

In the 80s I knew the US Army had fake tank outlines with heat sources to draw anti tank weapons.

Patton's Ghost Army - D-Day Deception - America in WWII mag

The army General George Patton fielded for the 1944 Normandy D-Day Invasion was unlike any other. It was a complete and unabashed fake.

www.americainwwii.com

 

[steve_bank]

From a news report the dummies are effective. Russia is wasting cruise missiles on them.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

For very mild values of "crippling". Fuel is a bit more expensive and Germans probably have to wear sweaters next winter. The real risk is that people might be stupid enough to vote in useful idiots who think appeasing Russia is going to work again, when it didn't work in 2014.

Russia will never tolerate Nazi controlled Ukraine.

I was talking about Europe and US.

Ukraine probably won't have elections until after the war, next round isn't even scheduled until 2024. If Ukraine is still free then, they're not going to give a flying fuck about what Putin wants.

Ukrainian nazi regime does not even give fuck what their own people think, they elected that clown with only one task - to end war in Eastern Ukraine. Instead that drug addict started a war with Russia.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

but somehow their planes and helicopters are still getting shot down regularly.

No, not regularly, in fact I have not heard such a thing for a few months now.
Of course your lying piece of shit media is still stuck in February.

Not regularly as of late because Russia has learned its lesson. Fly over Ukraine, get shot down. Russia has stopped sending as many flying targets for Ukraine's stinger anti-aircraft teams

Yes, if you are flying helicopter and criminal western governments supply portable air defense systems. Having said that, Russia does fly jet fighters over Ukraine hunting down what Ukraine still has. They are flying higher than range of the crap you send these overdosed terrorists.

As a reminder, Russia is in a World War I stalemate for months with "these overdosed terrorists".

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Latest video with Putie listening to one of his generals bloviate definitely shows Putie grabbing the table to stop his hands from shaking. Parkinson's or slow poisoning?

 

[steve_bank]

On a news show there was a video of a Russia intelligence leader speaking to Putin. The equivalent of the head of the FBI or CIA.

Putin was sitting at a desk on a raised platform.

The other guy was stadning at a podium.

According to the Russian on the news segment the man said sometng counter to what Putin wnated to hear. Putin govisibly angry. The guy cowed and echoed what Putin wanted to hear.

Putin has no way out and no exit. The only thing he can do is keep on doing what he is doing.

That is what Hitler and his close supporters did. Right up until Goebbels and Hitler committed suicide. Right up until the end Goebbels was making propaganda radio broadcasts.

Like Trump Putin was an inept unqualified person who mostly by accident and circumstance managed to get into power.

The pressure Putin is feeling is probably huge. Continuous high levels of stress is debilating and affects judgement.

 

[bilby]

During the Battle of Britain, the RAF set up a number of dummy airfields, with fake buildings, runways, aircraft, and even fake ack-ack guns, in an effort to draw Luftwaffe attention away from the real facilities.

Each such site had a two man observation section assigned to it, to record the number and type of enemy bombs that it attracted. This was, unsurprisingly, a highly unpopular duty.

According to Prof. R V Jones (Churchill's science advisor, responsible for many of the deceptions and tricks used by the British forces), on one memorable day in 1941, the observers at one such facility reported an attack by a single JU-52, whose pilot expertly placed a single large bomb directly on the main hangar building (tearing the canvas, as it was in fact a large tent); No further damage was reported, as the bomb failed to explode. The bomb was discovered, on examination by the UXB team, to be made entirely of wood.

 

[ZiprHead]

Russian Soldiers Blown Up by Own Mines Responding to Fake Call: Official

Russian troops were blown up by their own mines while responding to a fake call from pro-Ukrainian partisans early Monday morning, according to Mariupol officials.


Above, Azov Regiment soldiers are seen in the Kharkiv region of Ukraine on June 23, 2022. Pro-Ukrainian partisans used a fake report of Azov soldiers in Mariupol to lure Russian soldiers to a home, where they set off their own mines early Monday morning, Ukrainian official said.© Paula Bronstein/Getty Images
The deaths come after more than six months of fighting as Ukraine continues to defend itself against the invasion that was launched by Russian President Vladimir Putin on February 24. Putin claimed the invasion was to "liberate" the separatist Donbas region from Ukrainian control. The invasion has been met with worldwide condemnation over skepticism over the justification, concerns about Ukrainian sovereignty, and reports of human-rights abuses from Russian soldiers.

 

[ZiprHead]

MSN

www.msn.com

KYIV, Ukraine — Ukraine may be outgunned, but in the latest sign it is not yet outfoxed, a fleet of decoys resembling advanced U.S. rocket systems has tricked Russian forces into wasting expensive long-range cruise missiles on dummy targets, according to interviews with senior U.S. and Ukrainian officials and photographs of the replicas reviewed by The Washington Post.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

and the Russian guns are starving.

According to your talking heads.

There are other countries with the ability to observe the volume of fire. It's like with the moon missions--the strongest proof they were real is that Russia didn't say they weren't.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

but somehow their planes and helicopters are still getting shot down regularly.

No, not regularly, in fact I have not heard such a thing for a few months now.
Of course your lying piece of shit media is still stuck in February.

Not regularly as of late because Russia has learned its lesson. Fly over Ukraine, get shot down. Russia has stopped sending as many flying targets for Ukraine's stinger anti-aircraft teams

Yes, if you are flying helicopter and criminal western governments supply portable air defense systems. Having said that, Russia does fly jet fighters over Ukraine hunting down what Ukraine still has. They are flying higher than range of the crap you send these overdosed terrorists.

Terrorists attack civilians. Attacking an army is never terrorism.

And, yes, they can fly higher than Stinger range--but there's not much of anything for them to do up there. They don't have the guided munitions to drop from that height, if they want to hit anything they have to come down into the Stinger envelope. Stingers have little chance of stopping them--but they make getting away risky. You can't dodge a missile on your ass, you have to spoof it or outrun it and if it was fired at the right time neither is easy.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm still trying to imagine a world where FOX, CNN and the BBC knowingly, willingly and actively collude with each other to prop up some multi-national government conspiracy to help nazis.

Not just them. Why do countries like China go along? They have spy satellites, they can see the situation.

 

[Patooka]

I'm still trying to imagine a world where FOX, CNN and the BBC knowingly, willingly and actively collude with each other to prop up some multi-national government conspiracy to help nazis.

Not just them. Why do countries like China go along? They have spy satellites, they can see the situation.

That part's easy. Something something Hunter Biden's laptop.

 

[Jayjay]

Another Russian oligarch defenestrated:

Chairman of Russian oil producer Lukoil dies after falling from hospital window - source

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Ravil Maganov, chairman of Russia's second-largest oil producer Lukoil, died on Thursday after falling from a hospital window in Moscow, a source familiar with the situation told Reuters. Some Russian media also reported the death of Maganov, 67, who was also Lukoil's vice...

www.swissinfo.ch

 

[bilby]

LOL. Reminds me of a case from the UK back in the '80s, wherein a local mobster "fell" from a parking structure to his death.

The coroner was reported to have declined to assign the cause as suicide, on the grounds that the deceased had apparently stabbed himself in the chest several times immediately before his fall.